kibble rework Fixing the kibble system

[AngrySaltire]

26 minutes ago, Zahlea said:

Since there are more posts just outlining how bad the kibble rework is and I don't want to write a duplicate of this, I'll just bump it...

Let's direct all that energy into specific changes that would make it better, shall we?  What few changes would make the most positive difference to the kibble system as it is?

The new kibble system is a good foundation and an improvement on the previous system, but it could do with a bit rejiging. I havent had much experience with it yet so I am relunctant to say too much. I agree they need to sort out the extraordinary kibble egg situation maybe add the titanoboa for example. The other complaint I keep hearing is the progression up the system. I guess it could be changed so there is a dino from a teir that lays an egg which tames the teir above it. Not a big fan of the naming convention I must say lol.

[girlygirlgamer322]

Can we have a server option to keep the old kibble system? I really enjoyed the progression mechanic and it gives a lot to do, especially on PvE.

[Onimusha759]

3 minutes ago, girlygirlgamer322 said:

Can we have a server option to keep the old kibble system? I really enjoyed the progression mechanic and it gives a lot to do, especially on PvE.

I prefer the new system but i hav to agree it eliminates a lot of hunting that i used to do.  I feel kinda lost on what to do in the mid 70s.  I have no purpose for most of the creatures now lol

[GeneralGrievous]

On 3/11/2019 at 7:04 PM, HairyNevus said:

They need to fix the taming for hesperornis (and otter) if it's gonna be this important of a tame. The hitbox to feed them fish is too small, so you end up dropping the fish, then the loon aggros to you when you grab its food away and becomes even harder to feed the fish to. Also, since many people probably bring them back to base where it's safe to tame, if the loon actually gets a peck in, then your own dinos might kill it. So you have to build a loon trap, near where they spawn, but every map has their spawn range spread out over like 100km. 

I may be one of the few people who actually made kentro kibble to tame yutys. I did it exactly twice, first just to say I did, and second after they announced this kibble rework because I wanted to document it this time for bragging rights. The way they first announced the rework, I thought no one was going to know what a pain getting golden egg had ever been , and we were taming a bunch of boas for the server's kibble farm for Extraordinary/cyan kibble.  Then, of course, WC f*cked us. At least I got a yuty with 378.9 MD the second time.

Boas should be back in the Extraordinary slot, and I think troodon kibble should be as well. Who tf tames those things by sacrificing high level dinos (besides me)? They have got to be at least Superior/purple or Exceptional/yellow. 

I honestly don't care about the tier system, could we fix the hesperornis, the prompt saying "feed fish" does not show, I tamed a otter but the hesperornis is impossible, no the fish isn't in the way, no it's not showing "wait for it to be hungry to feed again". I trapped 2, 1 before the update and one after, I provide it a fish dropped by icthyornis but all I get is "drag fish to tame". Could someone talk about this?

[Gabriel388]

4 hours ago, GeneralGrievous said:

I honestly don't care about the tier system, could we fix the hesperornis, the prompt saying "feed fish" does not show, I tamed a otter but the hesperornis is impossible, no the fish isn't in the way, no it's not showing "wait for it to be hungry to feed again". I trapped 2, 1 before the update and one after, I provide it a fish dropped by icthyornis but all I get is "drag fish to tame". Could someone talk about this?

Apparently it is a lot easier to feed the Hesperornis the fish while she is in the water and not on land while taming.

[GeneralGrievous]

13 hours ago, Gabriel388 said:

Apparently it is a lot easier to feed the Hesperornis the fish while she is in the water and not on land while taming.

The thing is in a 3×2 pen, there's knee high water on one end of pen for it to float

[slejo]

My baby Megalosaurus just wanted Triceratops Egg kibble...  did you really tested new kibble system?

[LaugherOutLoud]

this is such a well presented issue and you have alot of nice fixes. another issue i have with the system is it completely dumps everything that made the last kibble system great. in most cases there is typically only 1 dinosaur to enter the next stage of kibble with and some there are none. it jsut doesnt really make sense to need rex eggs to make a kibble to tame rexs. also i feel that a change this big really separates the official community. established tribes have easy access to all the new kibbles where as (i just restarted the game yesterday) getting a griffin or even a pteranadon with a near perfect tame is miles harder than it used to be.

[Gabriel388]

9 hours ago, GeneralGrievous said:

The thing is in a 3×2 pen, there's knee high water on one end of pen for it to float

You have to be swimming.

[Gorby1]

Seems to me that the purpose of this new kibble system is to make it more difficult to get perfect tames and in turn, more difficult to get the highest level babies. You want a couple perfectly tamed Rexes so you can breed the highest level Rexes? First you'll have to tame a few Rexes/Brontos/Queztals/etc the hard way ("hard" because it takes so long). The time you would have previously spent taming and getting eggs from Scorpions is instead spent taming and getting eggs from different creatures. Does it take longer over all? Almost definitely, and I think that's the point. I like it - although I too have similar concerns regarding the preferred kibble category that some creatures have been placed in.

[Onimusha759]

11 minutes ago, Gorby1 said:

Seems to me that the purpose of this new kibble system is to make it more difficult to get perfect tames and in turn, more difficult to get the highest level babies. You want a couple perfectly tamed Rexes so you can breed the highest level Rexes? First you'll have to tame a few Rexes/Brontos/Queztals/etc the hard way ("hard" because it takes so long). The time you would have previously spent taming and getting eggs from Scorpions is instead spent taming and getting eggs from different creatures. Does it take longer over all? Almost definitely, and I think that's the point. I like it - although I too have similar concerns regarding the preferred kibble category that some creatures have been placed in.

Idk, b4 id hunt 2 lvl 150 scorps.  Now id hunt 2 lvl 20 or lower rexes.  Prime is more effective then spoiled meat so hunting low lvl rexes is still pretty easy if not easier then low lvled scorpions.  I wont say for certain its easier tho, just theres an advantage.  Tho a low lvl rex is definitely easier then a high lvl scorpion.  Plus now we only need 1 kind of dino per teir.  Instead of a boy and 5 or so girls of almost every creature, now we just hav 5 sets and we can kibble everything.

[Gorby1]

3 minutes ago, Onimusha759 said:

Idk, b4 id hunt 2 lvl 150 scorps.  Now id hunt 2 lvl 20 or lower rexes.  Prime is more effective then spoiled meat so hunting low lvl rexes is still pretty easy if not easier then low lvled scorpions.  I wont say for certain its easier tho, just theres an advantage.  Tho a low lvl rex is definitely easier then a high lvl scorpion.  Plus now we only need 1 kind of dino per teir.  Instead of a boy and 5 or so girls of almost every creature, now we just hav 5 sets and we can kibble everything.

I see what you mean, but when it comes to me and the folks I play with we never used scorpions for anything other than eggs so we had little reason to get high lvl scorpions. Although you now only need 5 sets of dinos to kibble everything, you're not getting any of those 5th tier dinos with a perfect taming affinity until you've tamed some of those 5th tier dinos the long way (I'm excluding Extraordinary Kibble tier because I refuse to waste my life farming golden eggs). Also you and I clearly have a difference of opinion regarding the ease of taming scorps vs rexes lol, I'm certainly no Ark pro though. IMO having to tame sets of 20 or 30 different creatures just for their eggs was tedious and annoying, especially given that once you get near end-game on a map you don't need or want a lot of different dinos. I guess it comes down to playstyles and which aspects of the game people enjoy more.

[Onimusha759]

11 hours ago, Gorby1 said:

I see what you mean, but when it comes to me and the folks I play with we never used scorpions for anything other than eggs so we had little reason to get high lvl scorpions. Although you now only need 5 sets of dinos to kibble everything, you're not getting any of those 5th tier dinos with a perfect taming affinity until you've tamed some of those 5th tier dinos the long way (I'm excluding Extraordinary Kibble tier because I refuse to waste my life farming golden eggs). Also you and I clearly have a difference of opinion regarding the ease of taming scorps vs rexes lol, I'm certainly no Ark pro though. IMO having to tame sets of 20 or 30 different creatures just for their eggs was tedious and annoying, especially given that once you get near end-game on a map you don't need or want a lot of different dinos. I guess it comes down to playstyles and which aspects of the game people enjoy more.

Like u i never use scorpions either, i just like taming 150s.  Personal goal to get a male and female 150 of every creature.

Does it really matter???  Ur scorpions r purely for eggs, so would these 5 sets so no need to perfect tame a lvl 20 rex.  Theres no difference whether it b a low lvl scorp or rex neither needs perfect tamed if its for eggs.  That said i hate being unable to perfect tame from beginning but im arguing ease and difficulty rn.

Exactly what is so difficult about taming a rex?  Its 1 of the easiest tames a beginner can do.  All u need is a raptor with a saddle, crossbow, and tranq arrows.  No way in heck that rex catches that raptor and u can shoot while riding it.  If it gets side tracked, which it usually does, it gets even easier.  Since we dont hav to perfect tame it u dont HAVE to get prime but u kno if u feel like it and nothing will try to kill it unlike a scorp which most things will.

[Gorby1]

1 hour ago, Onimusha759 said:

That said i hate being unable to perfect tame from beginning

I think that's the part that's getting most people upset. I think of it as the "progression" of the game being changed. instead of progressing by taming one creature type after another to get the creatures you want, you now progress by inefficiently taming the creatures you want in order to perfect tame those creatures after wards. It's a drastic change, for sure.

I admit I'm no pro at Ark. Taming a rex is a challenge sometimes for me, at least compared to a scorp which seems super easy. I've only been playing for about a year and I work 60+ hours a week (love that overtime pay tho!). I play on a private PvP with 15-20 people in two tribes, we just started a new map on Center (no mods) after the homestead update so it's kinda fun playing with the new kibble system from the beginning. I can see how those who got the update injected into their months-long game would be really, really upset though. Seems like WC could've slowly spun up new servers with the update instead of updating current servers, considering how drastic the change is.

[Onimusha759]

41 minutes ago, Gorby1 said:

I think that's the part that's getting most people upset. I think of it as the "progression" of the game being changed. instead of progressing by taming one creature type after another to get the creatures you want, you now progress by inefficiently taming the creatures you want in order to perfect tame those creatures after wards. It's a drastic change, for sure.

I admit I'm no pro at Ark. Taming a rex is a challenge sometimes for me, at least compared to a scorp which seems super easy. I've only been playing for about a year and I work 60+ hours a week (love that overtime pay tho!). I play on a private PvP with 15-20 people in two tribes, we just started a new map on Center (no mods) after the homestead update so it's kinda fun playing with the new kibble system from the beginning. I can see how those who got the update injected into their months-long game would be really, really upset though. Seems like WC could've slowly spun up new servers with the update instead of updating current servers, considering how drastic the change is.

I agree with u 100% on the progression being broke, especially with the extraordinary kibble.

Try wat i said next time u go rex hunting.  Or use a bear trap and 3-4 stone gates to trap it.  On the center theres a lil tunnel near the middle of the map u can trap things in easy

[Zahlea]

1 hour ago, Gorby1 said:

I think that's the part that's getting most people upset. I think of it as the "progression" of the game being changed.

56 minutes ago, Onimusha759 said:

I agree with u 100% on the progression being broke

I get what you mean, both of you, but as far as looking at the kibble tree as a progression, it was (in my opinion) significantly flawed as it was. A few examples that made no sense to me:

Spoiler

Carno -> Trike -> Sarco -> Stego
Needing a Carno to kibble tame a Trike?!  This is one of the two things that made the least sense to me (the other being Troodon -> Equus), but also Sarco -> Stego doesn't feel like progression.

Scorpion -> Rex -> Quetzal -> Dimetrodon -> Gallimimus -> ...
Of course you can jump into the middle of the tree, but regarding it as a progression tree makes this look weird to me - why do you need a Rex and Quetz to get a Galli? And for that matter, jumping in the middle I don't get needing a Quetz for a Dimetrodon.

Titanoboa -> Gigantopithecus
With how annoying Titanoboa eggs are, I just wrote off ever taming this. Yes, Titanoboa kibble tamed other creatures as well, but this particular "progress" is my major issue with the Titanoboa kibble as I don't consider the Gorilla that top tier.

Troodon -> Equus
OMG!!!! This is one of the most insane ones. Troodon that I've tried several times and never managed to tame, needed to tame what I consider an early game mount? Yeah, no sense here!

Megalania -> Megatherium
Mainly here as the new kibble system seems to think Megalania the very top tier dino which makes no sense to use it for Megatherium then.

Of course, the details of these can be discussed at length and I'm sure many will disagree. My point here is that I feel that the previous system had major flaws and considering how many times I've seen people asking for a Kibble rework, I believe I'm not alone. Then obviously, what we got was unexpected by most, I dare say, but I do believe that those who claim the previous system to be really good may have put the nostalgia glasses on. That doesn't mean it wasn't better than the current system, of course, just a comment on how some people (not you two, though) seem to argue like the previous system was flawless  

[Onimusha759]

32 minutes ago, Zahlea said:

I get what you mean, both of you, but as far as looking at the kibble tree as a progression, it was (in my opinion) significantly flawed as it was. A few examples that made no sense to me:

  Reveal hidden contents

Carno -> Trike -> Sarco -> Stego
Needing a Carno to kibble tame a Trike?!  This is one of the two things that made the least sense to me (the other being Troodon -> Equus), but also Sarco -> Stego doesn't feel like progression.

Scorpion -> Rex -> Quetzal -> Dimetrodon -> Gallimimus -> ...
Of course you can jump into the middle of the tree, but regarding it as a progression tree makes this look weird to me - why do you need a Rex and Quetz to get a Galli? And for that matter, jumping in the middle I don't get needing a Quetz for a Dimetrodon.

Titanoboa -> Gigantopithecus
With how annoying Titanoboa eggs are, I just wrote off ever taming this. Yes, Titanoboa kibble tamed other creatures as well, but this particular "progress" is my major issue with the Titanoboa kibble as I don't consider the Gorilla that top tier.

Troodon -> Equus
OMG!!!! This is one of the most insane ones. Troodon that I've tried several times and never managed to tame, needed to tame what I consider an early game mount? Yeah, no sense here!

Megalania -> Megatherium
Mainly here as the new kibble system seems to think Megalania the very top tier dino which makes no sense to use it for Megatherium then.

Of course, the details of these can be discussed at length and I'm sure many will disagree. My point here is that I feel that the previous system had major flaws and considering how many times I've seen people asking for a Kibble rework, I believe I'm not alone. Then obviously, what we got was unexpected by most, I dare say, but I do believe that those who claim the previous system to be really good may have put the nostalgia glasses on. That doesn't mean it wasn't better than the current system, of course, just a comment on how some people (not you two, though) seem to argue like the previous system was flawless  

No no zahlea, i agree with u 100% and have even said this same stuff b4.  Spino to shark and allo to...Was it kapro???  I mean thats some dumb bs XD.

Another  thing i dont get is why most ppl love the thyla but not the megalania.  It can go across the ceiling which thyla cant and probably fight better.  Mega rabbies is deadly for pvp id say.

[Zahlea]

1 hour ago, Onimusha759 said:

No no zahlea, i agree with u 100% and have even said this same stuff b4.  Spino to shark and allo to...Was it kapro???  I mean thats some dumb bs XD.

Another  thing i dont get is why most ppl love the thyla but not the megalania.  It can go across the ceiling which thyla cant and probably fight better.  Mega rabbies is deadly for pvp id say.

Yeah, Spino to Shark and Allo to Tapejara to Kapro.

Me either! I really enjoy the Megalania ❤️ But it's not very good in a fight PvE. Not doing PvP so couldn't say there except for that it is hard enough to survive the rabies when you go hunting for them so I could very well see that being the case!

[AngrySaltire]

2 hours ago, Onimusha759 said:

No no zahlea, i agree with u 100% and have even said this same stuff b4.  Spino to shark and allo to...Was it kapro???  I mean thats some dumb bs XD.

 

My favourite was Scorpion to rex to troodon to equus.... 

 

Lol: I Should have read Zahleas spoilers before posting.... never mind.

[Eldar Seer]

At least Superior kibble has an "easy" on ramp with Moschops (okay, not easy, but it does not take kibble to perfect tame one). I would still like to see snails and maybe dung beetles fit in somewhere as gateways (Exceptional/Extraordinary). Regular in theory has Troodon... but Troodon's preferences when taming make this impractical except for a well established tribe. Compy requires prime meat or mutton to tame, but should work for simple kibble. Basic... has the Lystro, which loves rare flowers. I do think the system could work to an extent with the existing creatures, but in order for it to do so their preferences need to be reworked. 

[Zahlea]

23 hours ago, AngrySaltire said:

My favourite was Scorpion to rex to troodon to equus.... 

Hehe, we have the same favourite

22 hours ago, Eldar Seer said:

At least Superior kibble has an "easy" on ramp with Moschops (okay, not easy, but it does not take kibble to perfect tame one). I would still like to see snails and maybe dung beetles fit in somewhere as gateways (Exceptional/Extraordinary). Regular in theory has Troodon... but Troodon's preferences when taming make this impractical except for a well established tribe. Compy requires prime meat or mutton to tame, but should work for simple kibble. Basic... has the Lystro, which loves rare flowers. I do think the system could work to an extent with the existing creatures, but in order for it to do so their preferences need to be reworked. 

I get the "on ramp" suggestion, I really do, but I don't think that's the intention so I have a hard time believing they'll change it that way. Why? Because, as I understand it, the reason is to minimise the amount of dinos needed for a kibble farm and to make the game more sandbox-y in that you get to choose yourself what dinos you want to tame for kibble. With an "on ramp" I see that second reason being circumvented in that the "on ramp"-dino becomes a must have.

Also, they seem to want to keep the dinos in isolated tiers, although this is not the case for all dinos. Whichever way they go doesn't matter much to me, but I'd wish they were consistent and clear in their intentions. If the intention is an "on ramp" - then have that for all tiers! If the intention is isolated tiers - make it so for all tiers! The way it currently stands just gives a very unpolished and badly thought through impression and that's a shame. In my opinion, if you're going to take the time to rework a system, take the time to do it properly and with genuine thought behind it, or don't do it at all!

[SaltyMonkey]

Quick question, was everyone as critical of the kibble rework now than when Extinction’s kibble came out? Were people surprised about Extinction’s version of kibble and did they welcome it?

I ask because the devs mentioned that Extinction was phase 1 of the kibble rework before the beta launched so there should not have been such a surprise when the rest of the rework would followed suit.

[Zahlea]

58 minutes ago, SaltyMonkey said:

Quick question, was everyone as critical of the kibble rework now than when Extinction’s kibble came out? Were people surprised about Extinction’s version of kibble and did they welcome it?

I ask because the devs mentioned that Extinction was phase 1 of the kibble rework before the beta launched so there should not have been such a surprise when the rest of the rework would followed suit.

Good question. I can of course only speak for myself and I didn't play Extinction so it took a while before I paid any attention to the rework. When I did I was actually convinced they'd have a different system for each map, so that it could be tailored to that map. I realise now that could've been a bit weird seeing as many creatures exist on many maps and they would then request several different kibble.

Because of this, I didn't say anything about it really. But mostly, when they announced the kibble rework, I decided to wait and see what they made of it. I was very active in the kibble feedback thread and all of my issues were lifted by myself and several others. I'm sad to see nothing was done about the vast majority of feedback, not even a reply to a thread where they asked for our help. I will continue to give feedback in hope of a change as the current system is unplayable for me (but I'm confident at least there'll be a mod or a way to change it if the devs decide they don't want to).

[Onimusha759]

43 minutes ago, Zahlea said:

Good question. I can of course only speak for myself and I didn't play Extinction so it took a while before I paid any attention to the rework. When I did I was actually convinced they'd have a different system for each map, so that it could be tailored to that map. I realise now that could've been a bit weird seeing as many creatures exist on many maps and they would then request several different kibble.

Because of this, I didn't say anything about it really. But mostly, when they announced the kibble rework, I decided to wait and see what they made of it. I was very active in the kibble feedback thread and all of my issues were lifted by myself and several others. I'm sad to see nothing was done about the vast majority of feedback, not even a reply to a thread where they asked for our help. I will continue to give feedback in hope of a change as the current system is unplayable for me (but I'm confident at least there'll be a mod or a way to change it if the devs decide they don't want to).

Which leaves half the playerbase, which im part of, twisting in the wind until wc makes it an official mod, if they ever do...

I too was uncertain of what i felt about the extinction kibble.  Frankly i lost interest in extinction very quickly.  The domes are to small to effectively work as a biome and of course the island based low lvl generation of creatures is so old.  With center and rag it feels lik that old creature generation system is just obsolete.  As for salts question tho, extinctions system didnt seem as botched up as this.

[Zahlea]

19 hours ago, Onimusha759 said:

Which leaves half the playerbase, which im part of, twisting in the wind until wc makes it an official mod, if they ever do...

I too was uncertain of what i felt about the extinction kibble.  Frankly i lost interest in extinction very quickly.  The domes are to small to effectively work as a biome and of course the island based low lvl generation of creatures is so old.  With center and rag it feels lik that old creature generation system is just obsolete.  As for salts question tho, extinctions system didnt seem as botched up as this.

Oh, yeah, of course. That remark is purely selfish that I'll probably be fine. I do feel sorry for you guys on official or console that can't do mods. For what it's worth, I'll try my best, whatever impact I can make, to get it into vanilla without the need of a mod!