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So I have been thinking about this for a long time ever since I raised my first Wyvern. They suck. Other than for flying around fast, doing metal runs with a weight Wyvern, or showing off, they suck. Especially now with the introduction of Aberration, where all metal runs are now done, and with the introduction of Gasbags and Managarmr they are no longer the fastest. Even before these new dinos were added, they still had a big problem, the Boss arena on Scorched Earth was designed to allow them to take part, but made it so it wouldn't land so you would have to do 100% Wyverns....but they would be KO'd instantly due to no armor or torpor resistance/capacity and you would lose them all. Even if they were awake, their DPS capabilities are limited, and even then you would have to have 100% one type of wyvern and it would NEED to be lightning. They require the most difficult taming to get since you have to risk life and limb and dino getting an egg, which is mostly low lvl, or is not a lighting (which is the only one atm that has any reasonable DPS or accuracy) and have to KO a female wyvern which required a trap and you have to get it every time you do imprints or to feed the baby. I think it is time to have this fixed since this is THE dino that SE was made around. So in that end, I have put my suggested changes in hopes it is seen by a Dev directly or through you, the reader.

 

Blanket Changes:

  • Breeding re-added
  • Breeding time increased to that of Giga/Tuso/Mosa/Basi/etc (11day, 16hr + Egg hatch time)
  • Increased Torpor value (2-3x, needs testing for accurate fair number)
  • Aiming Reticle as Mana/Velon/etc
  • Reduce Breath attack stamina cost to 100 (?)
  • Breath attacks no longer damages allied/tribe dinos/players both mounted and dismounted
  • Milk refrigeration (potentially?, due to new difficulties obtaining it)
  • Milk buff increased to 5 mins
  • Wyvern Talons give temporary immunity to just special debuff effects of specifically new wyvern [not dragon] breaths [add ice talon] (1min?) to make runs survivable with prep

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Fire:

  • Breath now is a 20 Tile long, 7 Tile Wide (at end) Cone
  • Fire breath does 2x prev dmg from the direct dmg portion (500% melee) over 2.5 seconds just as current version
  • Debuff is now 1 stack per hit (each breath has 10 hits) with max of 50
  • Each stack does 0.9% max hp dmg per stack w/ max of 7 dmg
  • Debuff has only 5 second duration, at expiring it removes 10 stacks of debuff
  • Each breath refreshes time of debuff and adds more stacks
  • Extra damage from fire attacks at 50 stacks of debuff (?)
  • Submerging in water removes all debuff stacks
  • Rain reduces debuff time to 3seconds from 5
  • Ice breath from Ice Wyvern removes 1 stack per hit (10 hits in each breath), doesn't refresh time on debuff
  • Potentially add debuff upon removing stacks that increases all damage taken by 0.5% for 5 seconds, stacking to 50 (?)


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Ice:

  • Breath now is a 20 Tile long, 7 Tile Wide (at end) Cone
  • Ice breath does 2x prev dmg from the direct dmg portion (500% melee) over 2.5 seconds just as current version
  • Debuff is now 1 stack per hit (each breath has 10 hits) with max of 50
  • Each stack does 1% reduced movement speed and attack speed (same essential effect as admin command 'slomo' except for projectiles speed)
  • Debuff has only 5 second duration, at expiring it removes 10 stacks of debuff
  • Each breath refreshes time of debuff
  • Fire from fire arrows and flamethrowers removes 1 stack of debuff, doesn't refresh time on debuff
  • Fire from Fire wyvern breath removes 1 stack per hit (10 hits in each breath), doesn't refresh time on debuff
  • Potentially add debuff upon removing stacks that increases all damage taken by 0.5% for 5 seconds, stacking to 50 (?)

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Lightning:

  • Breath is now a 10 Tile long, 10 Tile wide, 10 Tile tall Burst in front of it
  • Breath does 40 hits instead of 36 hits per breath, and totals 1000% melee over the normal 5 seconds
  • Breath animation is now a small bit of crackling forked lightning in the area when no targets present
  • Add a random (1 in 10 different images?) forked lighting image arcing from mouth to each enemy on each hit
  • Final hit causes a knockback, both up and away in direction
  • Final hit makes a thunder sound
  • Debuff on flying dinos that, at getting 4 stacks, forces them to land for 10 seconds
  • Buff any dino that gets landing debuff so it cannot apply debuff for 20 seconds (?)

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Poison:

  • Breath remains the same, but travels faster, possibly change the projectile image to a spit/liquid appearance
  • Breath does 2x dmg from direct dmg portion (300% melee) in one hit just as current version
  • Breath no longer damages rider, direct attack or cloud
  • Bypass armor when not wearing gasmask/hazmat/tek, no direct or cloud HP damage when wearing these
  • Cloud severely corrodes all other armor than gasmask/hazmat/tek plus doing standard 9% max hp per second
  • Increase maximum damage of cloud to 150/second (300/second max w/ debuff below)
  • Debuff 5 seconds from direct damage and cloud causing 2x dmg from any poison wyvern direct poison breath attack [direct and cloud], 20% increased dmg from all other sources

 

I am open to suggestions but really I just want to see this important dino get the fix they need, since Scorched Earth is a Paid expansion and is losing out of its main charm.

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I reall really want a crosshair for all wyverns.

The torpor is fine, never had any problems defeating manti, all you need is one yuti to keep the wyverns awake. If the torpor was increased, wild ones would take way longer to be knocked out for milk.

Your fire and ice suggestion sounds good, I think the Lightning is fine as it is. For the poison I'd like the poison to slightly blur the players vision when hit (something between beer and aberration spore cloud effect).

I want all wyverns to properly stop their breath attack when they die.

not sure if I like breeding for them. That would mean you didn't need to go down in the scar, which is really the fun part of raising wyverns. Maybe rather increase the max. Egg lvl that can be found. They would probably become very op if you could breed them.

The tek saddle could finally be integrated for a little bit of armor. instead of having lasers, it could improve breath dmg, range, wyvern speed, or grant a charge attack (with stun?).

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The yuti only works so far, you would have to stop what you are doing every 10 seconds and get close to it, which kinda makes the flight kinda boring and less freeing, Since you can't dogfight in the air like that. As for KO'ing wild ones everyone still uses traps, just means you have to use more darts/arrows which is fine by me for the trade-off.

I made the lighting change suggestion because I wanted it to be different than before, but also because electricity is hard to travel far with, plus I and many others, hated how the breath attack looked, its breath attack is just a laser beam not lightning.

The poison blur would add a nice effect, so long as they didn't have the proper protection. I had difficulty thinking of a unique strength for them, toying with Torpor attacks but that can get iffy when you involve PvE taming, don't want all the wild dinos KO'd and untamable or unkillable. I also thought about doing a similar effect to the blue spore where it suffocates you but that can be equally overpowered since suffocation damage is severe and % based.

I suggest breeding because it's a big part of the game, and you still need to go to the trench to get new eggs to find good stats, plus the milk runs. I made the suggestion to make it longer so that breeding them out isn't just blown through easily, and since they are the powerhouse of the sky, just as the Giga is for land, and Tuso/Mosa are for water.

I hesitate to add a saddle simply because they are fast flying air mounts which don't normally get into range of combat, especially for PvP where hitting them with a gun is hard with their hitbox and speed which could make them near impossible to get killed there, which would be unfair. Plus compared to other flying dinos they have a high HP pool. Maybe a low armor one with the special effects you mention or allow it to do it's breath behind them so that they can properly fight other creatures in the air instead of forcing wyvern on wyvern combat to just be you landing, flying, getting them stuck in you, biting them for a bit, rinse and repeat.

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My ideas for Wyvern TLC.

General QoL changes for all wyvern types

- crosshairs for all wyverns.

- increased stamina regeneration for wyvern, when you hop off a Wyvern it should be able to regen to full stamina in less than 3 seconds.

-  significantly reduce breath stamina use. 

- allow wyverns to go to Abberation

- wyverns should be able to go underwater and have swim speed comparable to mantas. And also be able to regenerate stamina underwater when you dismount. Also make Wyverns not grabbable by tuso. Finally wyvern should be able to use breath underwater as long as you started using breath before entering water.

- Give Wyverns saddles with two person seats. 

- make Wyverns breedable

- Wyverns should be able to level up speed stat.

Specific wyvern class based changes

- Lightning wyvern should have range 1.5 times greater than auto turret range. Also being hit by lightning wyvern should stun dinos and dismount riders, kind of like electric eels. Stun depend on saddle, primitive saddle gets stunned and dismounted in less than a second, and around 3 second for good saddle.

- Fire wyvern should have 3/4 of turret range and much larger cone. Every dino in area of affect would stop responding to player commands for 30 seconds while they burn. If flame hits a player they would lose control of their character for 30 seconds while burn debuff in effect. 

- Poison wyverns need to replace projectile with a hitscan poison beam that has 2x range of auto turrets. Poison attacks should stun dinos and dismount riders, kind of like purlovias do. Also buff the damage. Stun depend on saddle, stunned instantly with primitive saddle, 3 seconds for good saddle.

Edited by covenantgrunt

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I agree on the crosshairs, stamina change possibility, two person riding, and breeding but from what I am reading all of your changes would make them far over powered for PvP play, game breaking, or not feasable.

 

Flying dinos in Aberration are not allowed but that's part of its charm. Aberration presents a challenge and adding flying dinos negates all of it.

 

Speed stat on fliers was removed due to PvP issues as well as game processing issues when you go too fast, though I would rather have ALL fliers capable of this if they add it to any.

 

Flying dinos underwater have been an issue because flying and swimming are the same in game mechanics. You can't make different animations for flying creatures or speed changes between the two. Also their breath wouldn't work underwater. Making them a catch all dino for all places makes them the ONLY dino you would use, which negates the plethora of other dinos in the game.

 

For lightning having the range further than turrets makes you able to destroy bases from afar safely which is broken, plus it's a render issue. Also a ranged stun that dismounts for a few seconds is Insta kill, since the breath would just kill the rider, which is broken. Even without a dismount stun at will at range is broken.

 

For fire the cone isnt bad, but 30 seconds of disoriented is an Insta kill, nothing short of wyvern milk could prevent it, and 30 seconds in combat is an eternity, making it broken.

 

For poison again, ranged attacks that far make them broken. And again, stun or dismount make them Insta kill, and are broken.

Edited by Kingfisher422
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30 minutes ago, Kingfisher422 said:

I agree on the crosshairs, stamina change possibility, two person riding, and breeding but from what I am reading all of your changes would make them far over powered for PvP play, game breaking, or not feasable.

 

Flying dinos in Aberration are not allowed but that's part of its charm. Aberration presents a challenge and adding flying dinos negates all of it.

 

Speed stat on fliers was removed due to PvP issues as well as game processing issues when you go too fast, though I would rather have ALL fliers capable of this if they add it to any.

 

Flying dinos underwater have been an issue because flying and swimming are the same in game mechanics. You can't make different animations for flying creatures or speed changes between the two. Also their breath wouldn't work underwater. Making them a catch all dino for all places makes them the ONLY dino you would use, which negates the plethora of other dinos in the game.

 

For lightning having the range further than turrets makes you able to destroy bases from afar safely which is broken, plus it's a render issue. Also a ranged stun that dismounts for a few seconds is Insta kill, since the breath would just kill the rider, which is broken. Even without a dismount stun at will at range is broken.

 

For fire the cone isnt bad, but 30 seconds of disoriented is an Insta kill, nothing short of wyvern milk could prevent it, and 30 seconds in combat is an eternity, making it broken.

 

For poison again, ranged attacks that far make them broken. And again, stun or dismount make them Insta kill, and are broken.

The Managarmr can already do everything I suggested for the Wyvern. Greater than turret range, being able to freeze dinos and dismount riders, go to Abberation, using breath attack underwater and regen stamina there and move faster than underwater tames, all these things are true for manas. Since Manas are not going to be nerfed I think instead other dinos like wyverns need to be buffed to similar levels to compete.

Edited by covenantgrunt

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On 2/16/2019 at 2:47 AM, Weiss said:

The tek saddle could finally be integrated for a little bit of armor. instead of having lasers, it could improve breath dmg, range, wyvern speed, or grant a charge attack (with stun?).

I'd love a Tek saddle for the Wyvern. However, I think it should increase passive stamina regeneration and add strafing to make aiming their attacks easier.

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2 hours ago, covenantgrunt said:

The Managarmr can already do everything I suggested for the Wyvern. Greater than turret range, being able to freeze dinos and dismount riders, go to Abberation, using breath attack underwater and regen stamina there and move faster than underwater tames, all these things are true for manas. Since Manas are not going to be nerfed I think instead other dinos like wyverns need to be buffed to similar levels to compete.

The mana IS overpowered and is already broken and needs fixing. You are correct. I have already heard people quit the game entirely once they came out and wiped bases. They shouldnt be allowed on aberration and they shouldn't have a 40 tile range, and they shouldn't dismount riders or stun them, and they shouldn't do their breath underwater. But wildcard has yet to address this other than slightly nerfing damage as they get further from a target and increasing time to freeze and freeze CD, which doesn't matter, still kills you off the mount. Though if you start making dinos all do these things it gets boring and no dino is interesting anymore.

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2 hours ago, TheFalseLight said:

I'd love a Tek saddle for the Wyvern. However, I think it should increase passive stamina regeneration and add strafing to make aiming their attacks easier.

In my initial post I mentioned reduced stamina cost for the breath attacks, I cannot say what would be better, higher stamina regeneration or reduced breath cost since reduced cost but no increased regen means longer bouts of combat with a long down time meaning you have powerful attacks but need to be smart with them, or increased stamina regen with high breath cost meaning that you can keep doing quick guerrilla type attacks and retreat and re-stam quickly. Personally I think the first of those two is what I would prefer. However I would say that it should be a overall change rather than a Tek saddle required ability. As for Strafing that is the Tapejara's unique thing and I don't want to take that from them especially since they have a tek saddle that, imo, doesn't need any further changes with the tek blasts combined with its perfect aerial maneuvering. I mentioned before about how maybe it should allow backwards breath attacks, but I am thinking maybe now with your comment it should be a reduced turn radius and an activated ability that flips the wyvern around 180 degrees just like a Tuso can, thus making aerial dogfights more interesting and possible, rather than the normal of landing, waiting, starting to fly as it goes over you, glitching it into you, biting/breathing on it, rinse and repeat.

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1 hour ago, Wazzamaniac said:

Id like ice wyverns to have the ability to freeze dinos like a mana if enough of the breath hits them. It's the weakest of the lot and it's a shame because it is the coolest (get it?)

I toyed with the idea of adding freezing to the Ice Wyvern but I decided against it for two reason. One is that, that is the Managarmr's unique thing (which still needs nerfing/tweaking but that's another topic), and that I personally think stun effects can get brokenly powerful easily in any game, especially so if they are ranged in nature. Perhaps, keeping with the lines of cold, the breath attack would apply a freezing temperature debuff, making you take the environmental temperature damage increasing with each stack of cold, which could be offset by using an Otter on your shoulder and good Fur armor? Though that wouldn't work on Dinos unless you added a mechanic for that like frostbite that does the slow debuff as I mentioned initially and a bit of cold damage as well (maybe 3-4 damage per stack?).

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Yes...  "Change" the Ice Wyvern to be a weak copy of the Fire Wyvern, instead of an actual unique revamp.  It's only distinction is the color, the slow, and the sound which none of those three matter really.  I'd like to see CyanicEmber's ice-shotgun attack from a different thread.  And I just thought up a Lightning nerf/revamp that basically makes them flying Electrophorii (pre-nerf).  A right-click would cause (flying or landed) the Lightning Wyvern to begin deeply inhaling a single huge breath and as it did, its head and tail fins would begin to crackle and pulse. When 1 or 2 seconds was up, it would fire a straightline single bolt of lightning that hit for tremendous damage, dismounted riders, and applies the shock debuff to the target.  Also it would be accompanied by a crack of thunder/lightning strike sound.  Or maybe you hold in the breath by holding down rightclick, and it releases when you let it go?  Would be tough to hit with (but would have reticle) but if you were skilled it would be terrifying, kinda like current Lightning in the pool of current Wyvern power.

I've discussed Wyvern TLC in other threads, and it is a fun joke to play on ourselves to wistfully imagine how they could be better.  But we are kidding ourselves.  I thought of that Lightning Wyvern thing just right now, this minute, and I am a simple idiot with a keyboard and a rudimentary grasp of the English language.

Also, part of the Wyvern TLC is to remove the Managarmr from the game.  Hahaha, while we are rewriting a better version of ARK, let's just go nuts.  None of it will happen anyway.

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17 hours ago, TheDonn said:

Also, part of the Wyvern TLC is to remove the Managarmr from the game.  Hahaha, while we are rewriting a better version of ARK, let's just go nuts.  None of it will happen anyway.

Won't miss the Managarmr. Would be happy if Velonosaurs got their range reduced as well. 

Now that I think about it more WildCard should have just left Extinction creatures on Extinction, unable to leave the map.

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7 hours ago, TheFalseLight said:

Won't miss the Managarmr. Would be happy if Velonosaurs got their range reduced as well. 

Now that I think about it more WildCard should have just left Extinction creatures on Extinction, unable to leave the map.

Managarmr has ruined a lot of the game, however I never got a feeling the velon was broken. It has a 22 tile range while turrets have 27, while not being able to damage anything but dinos, players, and thatch, plus it can't jet around or freeze targets. It also doesn't have the super stam regen of mana when you dismount nor the general land speed or hitpoints. It's dps is about 150 per 100% without imprint or anything (maybe mate boost I forgot if I was near another at testing) which is is admittedly higher than even rexes or spino, but it dies quick.

On 2/19/2019 at 6:37 PM, TheDonn said:

Yes...  "Change" the Ice Wyvern to be a weak copy of the Fire Wyvern, instead of an actual unique revamp.  It's only distinction is the color, the slow, and the sound which none of those three matter really.  I'd like to see CyanicEmber's ice-shotgun attack from a different thread.  And I just thought up a Lightning nerf/revamp that basically makes them flying Electrophorii (pre-nerf).  A right-click would cause (flying or landed) the Lightning Wyvern to begin deeply inhaling a single huge breath and as it did, its head and tail fins would begin to crackle and pulse. When 1 or 2 seconds was up, it would fire a straightline single bolt of lightning that hit for tremendous damage, dismounted riders, and applies the shock debuff to the target.  Also it would be accompanied by a crack of thunder/lightning strike sound.  Or maybe you hold in the breath by holding down rightclick, and it releases when you let it go?  Would be tough to hit with (but would have reticle) but if you were skilled it would be terrifying, kinda like current Lightning in the pool of current Wyvern power.

I've discussed Wyvern TLC in other threads, and it is a fun joke to play on ourselves to wistfully imagine how they could be better.  But we are kidding ourselves.  I thought of that Lightning Wyvern thing just right now, this minute, and I am a simple idiot with a keyboard and a rudimentary grasp of the English language.

Also, part of the Wyvern TLC is to remove the Managarmr from the game.  Hahaha, while we are rewriting a better version of ARK, let's just go nuts.  None of it will happen anyway.

As for ice wyvern in this thread being a "copy" of fire, they are both thermal based attacks. It does make sense for them to counter the other and even be similar in application. I do think the breath should be something more unique like a freezing gale or ice shards. Doing an ice shotgun does change the look of the breath but that doesn't give it a unique debuff alone. I am also trying to think of solutions that the devs can easily implement that also synergize with other wyvern so it's encouraged to have more types at a time and rewards tribe play. Adding an attack with a special dismount at range like that is still going to kill the rider and is broken, though combining the charge up breath with the idea I put forward would be interesting. Having a charge up shot that takes a few seconds, shoots out a lightning bolt about 15 tiles and blasts all targets within a 4 tile radius and applying the cumulative aerial grounding effect. Also I want this thread to hopefully get good ideas, which is undermined by saying "None of it will happen anyway.". You won't get change by saying that it's not going to happen, it's self defeating and the enemy of discussion and progress.

Edited by Kingfisher422

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55 minutes ago, Kingfisher422 said:

Managarmr has ruined a lot of the game, however I never got a feeling the velon was broken. It has a 22 tile range while turrets have 27, while not being able to damage anything but dinos, players, and thatch, plus it can't jet around or freeze targets. It also doesn't have the super stam regen of mana when you dismount nor the general land speed or hitpoints. It's dps is about 150 per 100% without imprint or anything (maybe mate boost I forgot if I was near another at testing) which is is admittedly higher than even rexes or spino, but it dies quick.

As for ice wyvern in this thread being a "copy" of fire, they are both thermal based attacks. It does make sense for them to counter the other and even be similar in application. I do think the breath should be something more unique like a freezing gale or ice shards. Doing an ice shotgun does change the look of the breath but that doesn't give it a unique debuff alone. I am also trying to think of solutions that the devs can easily implement that also synergize with other wyvern so it's encouraged to have more types at a time and rewards tribe play. Adding an attack with a special dismount at range like that is still going to kill the rider and is broken, though combining the charge up breath with the idea I put forward would be interesting. Having a charge up shot that takes a few seconds, shoots out a lightning bolt about 15 tiles and blasts all targets within a 4 tile radius and applying the cumulative aerial grounding effect. Also I want this thread to hopefully get good ideas, which is undermined by saying "None of it will happen anyway.". You won't get change by saying that it's not going to happen, it's self defeating and the enemy of discussion and progress.

After three years and seven thousand hours, and seeing changes proposed for most of the time, I can say with a great deal of certainty that for the most part many of the good ideas the community has had/have presented are ignored.  Whether it is for the sake of development time and money being siphoned off, especially now to ATLAS development, or just that the Devs don't want to change the game because they honestly dont want to change it and are happy with its current state, OR that they would rather be pushing to get new content out for xpac sales, I can not say.  But I can ask you:  Do you think this is the first Wyvern TLC idea?  It is not.  People have wanted a revamp of Wyverns for a long while now, and ideas have been tossed out for a long time, man.  So while we are dreaming, yeah...  Easy-to-implement goes right out the stupid window.  If you are gonna change it, then change it.  The Ice Wyvern still has a blank raptoring square as its in-game portrait, so they haven't even done the easy things they should've done.  Corrupted Hearts will, sometime soon, get their own unique icon.  The xpac has been out for a while now, the hearts are an Extinction-specific resource, but they couldn't get a simple icon approved and pushed into the devkit/game files for it before release.  There is a team of people frothing at the mouth to get some funding from WC to work on the Switch version of the game, improve graphics, load times, and overall just optimize.  We have ideas now, and some of us have had ideas for over 2 years.

But I will change my tone very slightly:  It is very likely that no changes even close to these come to pass.  Sometimes, dreams are just dreams, call me a defeatist if you like.

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