ForzaProiettile Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 4 hours ago, HoboNation said: In my experience any hotly debated game mechanic or feature that is deemed to be OP, no matter what game it is, will have a loud minority legion of kiddies lying in wait, lurking in shadows and ready to pounce on the opportunity to defend there beloved OPness, because lets face it some people dont have enough self confidence in there abilities to be comfortable having no OP option to fallback on when things are going south. Very true. I remember when you could hit one Alpha Raptors with a Pteradon and yet there was still folks on this forum writing posts defending it as "balanced". Rather amusing. I guess players get so comfortable and used to using their OP creatures that they fail to understand why it should be balanced. Change is a bitch as they say. The other thing you have to take into account is PVE players. They like easy mode so anything that caters to that they will defend vigorously. Case in point in this thread itself there are PVE players unsurprisingly rushing to the defence of Manas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koola173 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 22 minutes ago, ForzaProiettile said: Very true. I remember when you could hit one Alpha Raptors with a Pteradon and yet there was still folks on this forum writing posts defending it as "balanced". Rather amusing. I guess players get so comfortable and used to using their OP creatures that they fail to understand why it should be balanced. Change is a bitch as they say. The other thing you have to take into account is PVE players. They like easy mode so anything that caters to that they will defend vigorously. Case in point in this thread itself there are PVE players unsurprisingly rushing to the defence of Manas. This is absolutely correct. Anybody justifying the mana is balanced or completely fine is either a PvE player or PvP player who can't stand to lose their precious OP meta. When is the last time anybody has seen somebody flying on a Pt, Wyvern or Griffin for griefing/pvp? Probably never since Extinction came out because why in the hell would you use anything besides a mana when it will easily kill you on any other tame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Koola173 said: This is absolutely correct. Anybody justifying the mana is balanced or completely fine is either a PvE player or PvP player who can't stand to lose their precious OP meta. When is the last time anybody has seen somebody flying on a Pt, Wyvern or Griffin for griefing/pvp? Probably never since Extinction came out because why in the hell would you use anything besides a mana when it will easily kill you on any other tame. That's kinda the whole point, I never once said Manas are op, there just needs to be other dinos, besides a mana, that can counter it. And yes they could lead to changes in the mana that would be considered a nerf. A PvP Meta should consist of multiple dinos and that meta shouldn't be solely centered around base defense and offense. If I was to balance this myself. Without nerfing Managarmrs, I would adjust two other animals. I would make the Rock Drake, Rock Elemental and Mammoth, immune to the Freeze effect, not the damage by the breath, just the freeze. I would then remove the terrain, or object requirement for the Rock Drake's pounce and reduce it's internal cooldown by 50%. I think this would offer a much better gameplay experience, and some much needed balance and flavor to a stale meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaudeuken Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Are you not reading the rest of the post or just the ones that match your agenda? lol there are multiple ways to counter. In fact there are more ways to counter the mana than any other tame used for pvp. 1) Dino leash this is 100% the most effective counter if you don't understand this and complain about manas get out of here...... 2) dismounting tames i.e micro raptor 3) players sniping riders 4) dealing literally any damage to mana. - this interrupts the frost breath and allows for escape 5) Other manas... granted this is the answer you hate to see even though they are ridiculously easy to tame with them getting stuck in the air when knocking out. 6) battery turrets.... want me to explain these too? they need to be set on player only... 7) poison tames ( Poison wyvern and basilisk are able to shoot out of dino leash range 100% protected granted the shots are slow moving you are protected and can kill players off soaking tames at the same time) 8 ) grapple hooks using a high weight character grapple the mana with a heavy inventory this will prevent it from moving while grappled. Lets say 50% of people dislike manas (a generous assumption) in PVP and 80% of people like them in PVE (idk why anyone would dislike them in pve but for arguments sake we will say 80). By making these posts the 35% of players that are unhappy with manas ruin it for the 65% of players that enjoy them as they are. If you want to address a real reason why people are leaving ark make a post about how broken meshing/under-mapping is. *mic drop* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melcreif Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Shaudeuken said: ^^^^ Lycan is 100% right manas don't need a nerf people need to learn their counters. place dino leashes around your base and it goes back to raiding without manas it 100% nullifys them. The "get gud" is the truth! People that cant just walk up and pike something to defend themselves are the ones complaining on the forums. A vast number of pvpers love them both offensively and defensively and there are still loads of way to deal with them on both ends. The mana is a niche tame any nerf to it ruins the tame as a whole. Curious, can you expand on how the Dino Leash works in this scenario? What are you using it for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 Meshing has been a problem for the duration of ark and the population has been fine. def not a mic drop piece.. I get it, you like your meta and would prefer it to stay the same because anything different would require more thought then space space strafe strafe burst. Truth of the matter is, Extinction should have retained more players, much like the other DLCs. The dip is in PvP servers, not PvE. Check Battlemetrics. This not only applies to Official, but unofficial servers as well. This new meta is not keeping players, it's dull and the only time you see excitement is when the Mana's get knocked out of the fight. Here is a great example. You can even hear it in their voice. Watch the transition between Mana to Reaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperscopic Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 5 hours ago, Lycan187u said: Example...I defended my base against 10 raiders all on mana I killed all of them on my mana an killed all the tames they was using to raid place purlovia inside ur bases use micro raptors use dino leashes to block the ice breath do some research on youtube....get gud as they say Woo wow woow... wait a minute.. dino leash blocks mana breath lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d1nk Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 48 minutes ago, Melcreif said: Curious, can you expand on how the Dino Leash works in this scenario? What are you using it for? 3 minutes ago, Viperscopic said: Woo wow woow... wait a minute.. dino leash blocks mana breath lol? Yes. You cant fire in a leash range with mana nor fire out once inside. Definatly not inteded im sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdh31788 Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Mana isn’t op ppl just complain because they can’t use a standard defense of biting it with a giga. As far as titans go they’re for destroying bases not dinos most dinos can outrun or dodge them. I don’t raid using mana but I love griefers who do. Go out set down a leash toss some c4 on the ground sleepin bag near by and just shoot them till they divebomb and setoff the c4 they die mana usually dies as well or leash with battery turret near. Also so if you don’t use a leash and are on a tame you just dismount when they go to freeze it and shoot the rider or there mana most ppl stand still when freezing tames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covenantgrunt Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 15 hours ago, Shaudeuken said: ^^^^ Lycan is 100% right manas don't need a nerf people need to learn their counters. place dino leashes around your base and it goes back to raiding without manas it 100% nullifys them. The "get gud" is the truth! People that cant just walk up and pike something to defend themselves are the ones complaining on the forums. A vast number of pvpers love them both offensively and defensively and there are still loads of way to deal with them on both ends. The mana is a niche tame any nerf to it ruins the tame as a whole. Dino leashes blocking breath works and make it possible to actually go out and PvP on dinos like theriz again. But it is a glitch. We should not be abusing glitches just to be able use other dinos in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaProiettile Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 This game has always had balance issues related to flyers and the Mena is merely just the latest incarnation of this. Before the Mena there was the Griffin then the Wyvern then the Quetzal then the Pteradon. You would think the devs would have learned a thing or two by now but it seems to be not the case. It's a shame really because ARK had the potential to be a great PVP game with a lot of variety but in the end its always come down to flyers dominating everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaudeuken Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 7 hours ago, covenantgrunt said: Dino leashes blocking breath works and make it possible to actually go out and PvP on dinos like theriz again. But it is a glitch. We should not be abusing glitches just to be able use other dinos in PvP. How about the other 7 counters to manas i listed? are any of those ok to use in pvp? The old meta is just who can bite the other giga first to enrage. Is that really what you want to go back to? At least with the mana you have added another level of complexity to pvp that takes wit to deal with not just mindless attack mashing to chomp other tames. Our tribe has awesome manas and when we raid we bring a wide array of tames. you need soakers, dps, healers, and utility dinos to deal with all the things that come at you. manas are just one tool in the chest and unless you learn how to use the others your will forever be stuck getting smashed by those that have skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demerus Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 20 hours ago, Shaudeuken said: Are you not reading the rest of the post or just the ones that match your agenda? lol there are multiple ways to counter. In fact there are more ways to counter the mana than any other tame used for pvp. 1) Dino leash this is 100% the most effective counter if you don't understand this and complain about manas get out of here...... 2) dismounting tames i.e micro raptor 3) players sniping riders 4) dealing literally any damage to mana. - this interrupts the frost breath and allows for escape 5) Other manas... granted this is the answer you hate to see even though they are ridiculously easy to tame with them getting stuck in the air when knocking out. 6) battery turrets.... want me to explain these too? they need to be set on player only... 7) poison tames ( Poison wyvern and basilisk are able to shoot out of dino leash range 100% protected granted the shots are slow moving you are protected and can kill players off soaking tames at the same time) 8 ) grapple hooks using a high weight character grapple the mana with a heavy inventory this will prevent it from moving while grappled. Lets say 50% of people dislike manas (a generous assumption) in PVP and 80% of people like them in PVE (idk why anyone would dislike them in pve but for arguments sake we will say 80). By making these posts the 35% of players that are unhappy with manas ruin it for the 65% of players that enjoy them as they are. If you want to address a real reason why people are leaving ark make a post about how broken meshing/under-mapping is. *mic drop* + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d1nk Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 @Demerus man.. why the gifs My poor data!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covenantgrunt Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Shaudeuken said: How about the other 7 counters to manas i listed? are any of those ok to use in pvp? The old meta is just who can bite the other giga first to enrage. Is that really what you want to go back to? At least with the mana you have added another level of complexity to pvp that takes wit to deal with not just mindless attack mashing to chomp other tames. Our tribe has awesome manas and when we raid we bring a wide array of tames. you need soakers, dps, healers, and utility dinos to deal with all the things that come at you. manas are just one tool in the chest and unless you learn how to use the others your will forever be stuck getting smashed by those that have skill. To address your other points...they sound nice on theory but not practice. You say just use sniper and micro raptor vs rider. You can not do that reliably because mana is fastest dino in game, good luck hitting the rider. Come play with me on a non dedicated session, you can grab a sniper and a micro raptor and I will grab my mana. Lets see how many times you can kill me. The best foot PVPers in the game can not reliably snipe off mana riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattj Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Hmmm... mannas don’t exist on my console yet... interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycan187u Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 1 hour ago, covenantgrunt said: To address your other points...they sound nice on theory but not practice. You say just use sniper and micro raptor vs rider. You can not do that reliably because mana is fastest dino in game, good luck hitting the rider. Come play with me on a non dedicated session, you can grab a sniper and a micro raptor and I will grab my mana. Lets see how many times you can kill me. The best foot PVPers in the game can not reliably snipe off mana riders. Well if I place purlovia around and a dino leash give me a simple long neck u will be very surprised how effective u can kill a mana rider that's not including pheromone darts/shocking darts and asc longneck can do as well hell a 400+ damage sniper rifle will crush the rider or even the mana if can ko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demerus Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 3 hours ago, d1nk said: @Demerus man.. why the gifs My poor data!! Oh you know the old saying, "A picture is worth a thousand words"....but a GIF is worth $1,000 dollars on your data bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d1nk Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, Demerus said: Oh you know the old saying, "A picture is worth a thousand words"....but a GIF is worth $1,000 dollars on your data bill. Hahah! I was honestly expecting you to reply in GIFs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaudeuken Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 On 2/8/2019 at 11:04 AM, covenantgrunt said: To address your other points...they sound nice on theory but not practice. You say just use sniper and micro raptor vs rider. You can not do that reliably because mana is fastest dino in game, good luck hitting the rider. Come play with me on a non dedicated session, you can grab a sniper and a micro raptor and I will grab my mana. Lets see how many times you can kill me. The best foot PVPers in the game can not reliably snipe off mana riders. Manas stop moving when they use their ice breath.... i pvp against these all the time ide love to teach you how to play ark ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covenantgrunt Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 50 minutes ago, Shaudeuken said: Manas stop moving when they use their ice breath.... i pvp against these all the time ide love to teach you how to play ark ? Yeah sure buddy, PM me your discord, we will meet on an island server, official PVP on PC. I will give you a foot PVP kit of your choice and I will ride the mana. Lets see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaudeuken Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, covenantgrunt said: Yeah sure buddy, PM me your discord, we will meet on an island server, official PVP on PC. I will give you a foot PVP kit of your choice and I will ride the mana. Lets see how it goes. Im on xbox lol if you wanna swing that way im down. Dont you guys already have the mana nerfs on pc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycan187u Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Shaudeuken said: Manas stop moving when they use their ice breath.... i pvp against these all the time ide love to teach you how to play ark ? Unless underwater or in the air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giganotossauro Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 On 2/7/2019 at 12:06 PM, Demerus said: Easy there Thanos How many times does WC have to nerf Manas? Does the PVP crowd want them removed completely? That's what it seems is the only thing that will make you all happy. All I can tell you is if you bring a Knife to a Gun fight, there is a small chance you are walking out of it alive. So yes countering mana with mana is your best possible option at this time. Also keep in mind, no game will ever truly be 100% balanced. What tips the scales is strategy and cunning. This make the game a boring pay to win.is almost impossible to kill a mana without it unless u are a professional on pvp.they freeze u in 3 seconds,than kill u because humans stay frozen for fcking 10 seconds.the best way i found to kill theese boys was throwing a z plant seed on their faces and eating their ass with a 750 meele rhino.of course,z plants are from abe,so many people cant get one,and manas are from extinction,so again,many people cant get one for them.i think their frozen ray could be nerfed more,giving less damage,so he can be only a suport tame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covenantgrunt Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Dino leashes have been removed so the only real defense is gone. Meanwhile breath has not been nerfed. The patch notes say freeze has been significantly nerfed but there is no difference. They removed the dino leashes without adjusting the breath. The patch notes are lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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