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Kibble Rework Beta Feedback


Jen

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... Dolphinsong has a point, so I'll drop the debate.

On a feedback note, for a creature that is found on all maps, is useful, but not too easy to tame and maintain... why not allow snails to lay eggs, and allow those eggs to produce extraordinary kibble? They require veggie cakes to maintain, so a player needs to be at least somewhat established before taming them. They create cementing paste passively, meaning they are already extremely useful to have around without the ability to lay eggs. They do not take up much space- you can keep them in your house if you so desire.  And they do not require kibble or even eat it, meaning they offer a way in to the extraordinary tier that would not require its own kibble. 

In the same token, dung beetles can fill a similar role if allowed to lay eggs. However, considering they only take feces to tame and maintain, they may work better as an alternate "access ramp" into exceptional or superior kibble rather than extraordinary. 

Arthropleura could also fill a gateway role if allowed to lay, as they are found on all maps and do not require kibble... but they are not particularly useful, especially not to PvE players. I know some people do tame them, but they are very niche tames. 

I do think Oviraptor would make a workable gateway, since they are already useful for their passive egg production buff. However, they are not present on Aberration apparently- for them to be a workable gateway, they would need to be added. Their preferred food does make taming them something of a PITA, however, with their appetite for Giga and similarly troublesome eggs- depending on the tier they are meant to be a gateway for, their egg preference may need modification.

For animals within the tier system that could serve as gateways to the next, I think Para and Anky are both good candidates. Both are useful- although the para's alarm function's usefulness may be dependent on base location- and both are found on every map. The difference is that while Ankys are relatively compact, Paras are not, which is a point against them. Another point against paras is that dodos and dilos are not found on every map, which means either one or the other would need to be added to Scorched Earth to compensate if para eggs were switched to simple kibble. 

An alternative would therefore be to move raptors down to basic kibble. They are compact, they do have a use as a speedy scout/expendable bodyguard, and they are on every map. From there, either raptor or para eggs can be bumped up to provide simple kibble while still allowing for a basic kibble provider on all maps. It should be noted Pegomastax does provide simple kibble eggs without requiring a kibble. However while it is tiny and extremely space-efficient, I suspect most players hate them. Furthermore, their usefulness is non-existent in PvE, and limited at best in PvP. It is also not present on Aberration. 

Edit: On the same note, Morellatops eggs should bump up to regular as Trike eggs apparently are: They fill the role of a trike, and would likewise make for a good gateway into the regular kibble tames from simple kibble.

RE: Tek Dinos being a tier up in kibble, I'm not sure that should be the case. My understanding is that is only the case due to the ability to spawn at higher levels than their non-Tek brethren. Considering the rarity and the way level is scaled by default on official maps, I think that is not necessarily the best course of action. 

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I'd like to second (third? fourth?) the suggestion of having a "gateway" creature in each tier that provides eggs for the next tier up.

It's very good to see most of the creatures which previously didn't have kibble or kibble equivalents now do, but there's still some missing, Scorpions being the most notable.  Their "preferred" food of spoiled meat still gives really garbage effectiveness.

Lastly I have issues with the Extraordinary kibble tier in general.  I'm fine with it being difficult to obtain, but as others have said requiring Golden Hesperornis Eggs on two of the four maps is excessive.  @Eldar Seer's Achatina egg idea seems quite excellent to me.  If not that, perhaps making it require BOTH a large and an extra large egg as an alternative could work?  All that aside, the creatures that Extraordinary Kibble is used for make no sense.  Why on earth are Griffins, Karkinos, Megalania, and Thylacoleo in a higher tier than Quetzals, Rexes, Spinos, and freaking Gigas?  The Rock Elemental is the only thing that feels like it belongs there.  I would suggest bumping Griffins and Karkinos down to Exceptional, Megalania and Thyla down to superior, and Gigas up to Extraordinary.  That would make much more sense to me.  Or, heck, if you really want to leave Megalania in the Extraordinary kibble tier, at least have its eggs be in the same tier too!

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I fully agree with removing recipes altogether from kibble. They have no place there and make kibble farming extremely tedious. Just replace them with prime meat jerky, otherwise prime meat jerky is going to be near useless.

 

Can we also please halve the amount of each crop for the kibble recipes? There isn't any point in requiring 2 longrass and 2 savoroot for regular kibble, or 2 citronal for superior. The point of crops is to spend some time raising the plants and doing so ahead of time. Either way we gotta go pick up the crop and put it into our cooking pot. Requiring two instead of one of the same type does nothing but waste time and add frustration.

 

I'm real happy that water is no longer required though. It was pointlessly tedious to have to refill water containers each and every time.

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5 hours ago, girlygirlgamer322 said:

I fully agree with removing recipes altogether from kibble. They have no place there and make kibble farming extremely tedious. Just replace them with prime meat jerky, otherwise prime meat jerky is going to be near useless.

 

Can we also please halve the amount of each crop for the kibble recipes? There isn't any point in requiring 2 longrass and 2 savoroot for regular kibble, or 2 citronal for superior. The point of crops is to spend some time raising the plants and doing so ahead of time. Either way we gotta go pick up the crop and put it into our cooking pot. Requiring two instead of one of the same type does nothing but waste time and add frustration.

 

I'm real happy that water is no longer required though. It was pointlessly tedious to have to refill water containers each and every time.

Those with industrial cooker doesn't have to worry about water containers as its part of the water pipe systems.

As for being picky about the amount of farmed items needed for the recipes, how is it waste time and add frustration when there are two instead of one? I don't check my plots every few minutes to see if any produced, i just look in there whenever i remember to check fertilizer amounts and pull out whatever has produced, which often is up to 12 of them if not more, and toss them into a fridge for later use. When doing bulk making of the kibble people would just toss in however many they have of the items needed, not being picky that there is too many of one and not enough of the other, they can be reused later for another batch by putting the left over supplies into the fridge.

Honestly, there is zero effort in raising crops. Make an irritation system, a thing of seeds per plot, and load it up with fertilizer and forget about it for for a day or a few days, check in on it here and there, toss harvests into fridge and keep going.

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On 2/27/2019 at 2:05 AM, Dolphinsong said:

Those with industrial cooker doesn't have to worry about water containers as its part of the water pipe systems.

No kidding.

 

On 2/27/2019 at 2:05 AM, Dolphinsong said:

 

As for being picky about the amount of farmed items needed for the recipes, how is it waste time and add frustration when there are two instead of one? I don't check my plots every few minutes to see if any produced, i just look in there whenever i remember to check fertilizer amounts and pull out whatever has produced, which often is up to 12 of them if not more, and toss them into a fridge for later use. When doing bulk making of the kibble people would just toss in however many they have of the items needed, not being picky that there is too many of one and not enough of the other, they can be reused later for another batch by putting the left over supplies into the fridge.

Honestly, there is zero effort in raising crops. Make an irritation system, a thing of seeds per plot, and load it up with fertilizer and forget about it for for a day or a few days, check in on it here and there, toss harvests into fridge and keep going.

Yeah, let's just make it require 50 of each crop while we're at it if it really doesn't matter. 

 

It's small but it adds up. There's literally zero reason to require duplicates of a single crop species. It doesn't add anything challenging or interesting, it just makes kibble more tedious to make. Those clicks add up as you make hundreds or thousands of kibble.

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1 hour ago, girlygirlgamer322 said:

It's small but it adds up. There's literally zero reason to require duplicates of a single crop species. It doesn't add anything challenging or interesting, it just makes kibble more tedious to make. Those clicks add up as you make hundreds or thousands of kibble.

You're confusing tedium with cost.  Doubling the number of crops per kibble doesn't increase the tedium involved in crafting the kibble.  Making it more tedious would mean it took twice as long to cook, for example.  You could argue that adding the food recipes to the Extraordinary and Exceptional kibble makes those two specifically more tedious to craft, but simply requiring two crops instead of one does not because there's no extra work required for two crops over one.

And yeah, all of these new kibbles are more expensive than the old kibbles.  That's because each of them covers anywhere from 5 to upwards of 30 creatures, while the old ones only covered a single creature each (with a few exceptions).  It just makes sense for the new kibbles to be more expensive to craft.

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7 hours ago, girlygirlgamer322 said:

No kidding.

 

Yeah, let's just make it require 50 of each crop while we're at it if it really doesn't matter. 

 

It's small but it adds up. There's literally zero reason to require duplicates of a single crop species. It doesn't add anything challenging or interesting, it just makes kibble more tedious to make. Those clicks add up as you make hundreds or thousands of kibble.

Still not seeing how its more tedious. I just drop the entire stack of the crops needed into the cooker instead of a click per unit needed if i'm making more. If its so tedious doing 2 of the crops then why are berries perfectly fine at 5 and 10 amounts if your clicking for each one needed? Do you want those dumped down to a single unit as well cause to prevent it from being tedious?

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Just want to note that, for the record, superior kibble does require prime meat jerky, and with the tames in that tier you'll likely be making plenty of it. Nearly everything in the tier is extremely useful on one or more maps. 

On another topic, if reducing tediousness is a concern, then you could just roll the requirements for the soups into the recipe while removing the water requirement to avoid accidentally making either soup while making kibble. 

The main thing I see, however, is that the soups appear to be there as gatekeepers to make it harder to mass-produce Exceptional and Extraordinary kibble unless you are well-established, due to the fact that five (5 x 1) and ten (5 x 2) units of crops are required. At the point you are ready to tame a quetzal or a giganotosaurus, however, filling the requirements should not be difficult- your crops should be sufficient to take the hit by this point. The issue is that the recipe could appear overwhelming if the aforementioned solution was adopted. Considering that everything else in the recipes is easily obtained by five minutes respectively on a leveled herbivore and a leveled carnivore mount, I would suggest keeping the crop costs from the recipes, incorporate them in the kibble directly, and incorporate stimulants into one of the recipes and narcotics in the other. The main speedbump, the crops, will still be present. Most likely, this will not significantly change the difficulty in  mass producing the kibbles from the existing recipe from a resources standpoint; cooked meat and berries may as well be unlimited.  

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Hi Wildcard Devs,

 

Greetings to all of you. 

 

Please, I would like to offer some input into the new kibble rework system.

 

I've played the game on PS4 on single player mode for about 113 hours. I bought the one with all dlc's. I find the game to be the best on PS4 because of the enormous amount of things you can do in the game and it's complexity and flexibility and it's customisable options to suit me as a person so I am one of your interested customers. And I have a lot of games on PS4. I've played computer games since the 1980's. I am a moral person with strict principles which I live by.

Please, let me offer some advice and input to you regarding the new kibble rework system.

If you want to rework the kibble system, you have to make sure that the rework is really an improvement over the existing kibble system so that most of the players are content with the changes.

If it is not an improvement, then you will only make players irritated and angry at you for no good reason and after all that hard work on your part, that would be quite sad.

To make a better rework kibble system, it has to make sense and it has to be a good reason. The player must be convinced that this rework system is so much better than the old system so you get praises and not complaints. The player has to learn the new kibble system. But if the new kibble system doesn't make sense and is not an improvement, the player would probably quit the game with bad thoughts about you like, "You screwed up my favourite game for no good reason."

The new kibble system must be an improvement over the old. This is the most important. If it is not, don't make any changes please. It should be a learning experience for all concerned.

The kibble is used in game to tame dinosaurs faster which has benefits. The kibble is like the dinosaur's favourite food. So when the dinosaur gets fed that food, it is thinking, "Yummy, delicious, I so want to be your pet dinosaur, you are the best human ever to live and exist in this ark. I love you. You fed me the most delicious food I have ever tasted in my life."

 

The new kibble system should be divided like this:

Herbivore Kibble: Kibble for herbivorous dinosaurs.

Carnivore Kibble: Kibble for carnivorous dinosaurs.

Omnivore Kibble: Kibble for omnivorous dinosaurs.

 

Herbivore kibble should contain only plant ingredients like berries, vegies, etc.

Carnivore kibble should contain only meat, eggs, fish ingredients, etc.

Omnivore kibble should contain a mix of both plant ingredients like berries, veggies, etc, and meat, eggs, fish ingredients, etc.

The kibble system should follow the food chain of the dinosaurs.

The kibble is like their favourite food in the Ark universe.

It would make no sense whatsoever and ignorant for an experienced survivor to give a kibble which contained an egg and meat as ingredients to a herbivore and then expect the herbivore to love that kibble as their favourite food. This kibble would probably make the herbivore sick. There's a reason why the word herbivore exists and why a dinosaur is labelled a herbivore.

In real life, if a person has an allergy to peanuts and you proceed to mix peanuts with some other ingredients and then feed the person this meal and then to expect the person to regard this meal as their favourite food is totally insane and psychopathic.

 

Also do not put spotlights on the eggs and its' sizes as a kibble ingredient. There are enormous flaws in the game that will make things look stupid. Compy's egg is small size while Parasaur's egg is extra small. The Parasaur can carry me on its back while I can carry a Compy on my shoulder. Does this make sense to you that a Compy's egg can be bigger than a Parasaur's egg? How is that even physically possible? The Parasaur is many times bigger than a Compy. This is moving into the realm of stupidity because the sizes of the eggs and dinosaurs are clearly visible to the naked eye and are not hidden. 

 

You can organise the herbivore kibble like this:

Small herbivore kibble

Medium herbivore kibble

Large herbivore kibble

 

You can organise the carnivore kibble like this:

Small carnivore kibble

Medium carnivore kibble

Large carnivore kibble

 

You can organise the omnivore kibble like this:

Small omnivore kibble 

Medium omnivore kibble

Large omnivore kibble

 

The players would accept these changes if done well without too many complaints because it would be a definite improvement over the current kibble system because it makes more sense.

 

Happy players are a lot easier to milk for money than unhappy players. Thank you for reading.

 

Kind regards,

Gabriel,

(A customer who like your game and found some time to register to your website and offer some advice and input.)

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Gabriel388 said:

Hi Wildcard Devs,

 

Greetings to all of you. 

 

Please, I would like to offer some input into the new kibble rework system.

 

I've played the game on PS4 on single player mode for about 113 hours. I bought the one with all dlc's. I find the game to be the best on PS4 because of the enormous amount of things you can do in the game and it's complexity and flexibility and it's customisable options to suit me as a person so I am one of your interested customers. And I have a lot of games on PS4. I've played computer games since the 1980's. I am a moral person with strict principles which I live by.

Please, let me offer some advice and input to you regarding the new kibble rework system.

If you want to rework the kibble system, you have to make sure that the rework is really an improvement over the existing kibble system so that most of the players are content with the changes.

If it is not an improvement, then you will only make players irritated and angry at you for no good reason and after all that hard work on your part, that would be quite sad.

To make a better rework kibble system, it has to make sense and it has to be a good reason. The player must be convinced that this rework system is so much better than the old system so you get praises and not complaints. The player has to learn the new kibble system. But if the new kibble system doesn't make sense and is not an improvement, the player would probably quit the game with bad thoughts about you like, "You screwed up my favourite game for no good reason."

The new kibble system must be an improvement over the old. This is the most important. If it is not, don't make any changes please. It should be a learning experience for all concerned.

The kibble is used in game to tame dinosaurs faster which has benefits. The kibble is like the dinosaur's favourite food. So when the dinosaur gets fed that food, it is thinking, "Yummy, delicious, I so want to be your pet dinosaur, you are the best human ever to live and exist in this ark. I love you. You fed me the most delicious food I have ever tasted in my life."

 

The new kibble system should be divided like this:

Herbivore Kibble: Kibble for herbivorous dinosaurs.

Carnivore Kibble: Kibble for carnivorous dinosaurs.

Omnivore Kibble: Kibble for omnivorous dinosaurs.

 

Herbivore kibble should contain only plant ingredients like berries, vegies, etc.

Carnivore kibble should contain only meat, eggs, fish ingredients, etc.

Omnivore kibble should contain a mix of both plant ingredients like berries, veggies, etc, and meat, eggs, fish ingredients, etc.

The kibble system should follow the food chain of the dinosaurs.

The kibble is like their favourite food in the Ark universe.

It would make no sense whatsoever and ignorant for an experienced survivor to give a kibble which contained an egg and meat as ingredients to a herbivore and then expect the herbivore to love that kibble as their favourite food. This kibble would probably make the herbivore sick. There's a reason why the word herbivore exists and why a dinosaur is labelled a herbivore.

In real life, if a person has an allergy to peanuts and you proceed to mix peanuts with some other ingredients and then feed the person this meal and then to expect the person to regard this meal as their favourite food is totally insane and psychopathic.

 

Also do not put spotlights on the eggs and its' sizes as a kibble ingredient. There are enormous flaws in the game that will make things look stupid. Compy's egg is small size while Parasaur's egg is extra small. The Parasaur can carry me on its back while I can carry a Compy on my shoulder. Does this make sense to you that a Compy's egg can be bigger than a Parasaur's egg? How is that even physically possible? The Parasaur is many times bigger than a Compy. This is moving into the realm of stupidity because the sizes of the eggs and dinosaurs are clearly visible to the naked eye and are not hidden. 

 

You can organise the herbivore kibble like this:

Small herbivore kibble

Medium herbivore kibble

Large herbivore kibble

 

You can organise the carnivore kibble like this:

Small carnivore kibble

Medium carnivore kibble

Large carnivore kibble

 

You can organise the omnivore kibble like this:

Small omnivore kibble 

Medium omnivore kibble

Large omnivore kibble

 

The players would accept these changes if done well without too many complaints because it would be a definite improvement over the current kibble system because it makes more sense.

 

Happy players are a lot easier to milk for money than unhappy players. Thank you for reading.

 

Kind regards,

Gabriel,

(A customer who like your game and found some time to register to your website and offer some advice and input.)

 

 

 

 

The reason the egg is part of the kibble is stated in the recipe item ingame that says how to make it. The egg acts as a 'binding agent' to hold all the ingredients together into a 'kibble' consistency. The egg is not the primary ingredient at all, it is the meat/berries/veggies that are the primary for most of the recipes. Also, take a look at real world pet food for cats/dogs. They do include berries/veggies in there along side the meat so for carnivores it makes sense. After all, the prey they eat would have those nutrients from the plants they feasted on, if you give a carnivore 100% meat that has been dried out, a lot of those nutrients get removed in the process and thus the added fruits/veggies to make up for it.

As for the herbivores, i do agree it would be neat having an 'all berry/veggie/honey' variant for them but they must still contain the fiber and egg as fiber is for digestion and the egg, as i stated before, is what holds it all together.

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Additions to previous post:

You can organise the herbivore kibble like this:

Tiny herbivore kibble - Requires tiny quantity of plant ingredients.

Small herbivore kibble - Requires small quantity of plant ingredients.

Medium herbivore kibble - Requires medium quantity of plant  ingredients.

Large herbivore kibble - Requires  large quantity of plant ingredients

Huge herbivore kibble - Requires huge quantity of plant ingredients.

 

You can organise the carnivore kibble like this:

Tiny carnivore kibble - Requires tiny quantity of animal ingredients.

Small carnivore kibble - Requires small quantity of animal ingredients.

Medium carnivore kibble - Requires medium quantity of animal ingredients.

Large carnivore kibble - Requires large quantity of animal ingredients.

Huge carnivore kibble - Requires huge quantity of animal ingredients.

 

You can organise the omnivore kibble like this:

Tiny omnivore kibble - Requires tiny quantity of plant and animal ingredients.

Small omnivore kibble - Requires small quantity of plant and animal ingredients.

Medium omnivore kibble - Requires medium quantity of plant and animal ingredients.

Large omnivore kibble - Requires large quantity of plant and animal ingredients.

Huge omnivore kibble - Requires huge quantity of plant and animal ingredients.

You have to add size classification system to all dinosaurs and creatures if you have not done so. If you can classify the size of turd (faeces), you can classify the size of dinosaurs and creatures in the game.

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3 hours ago, Dolphinsong said:

The reason the egg is part of the kibble is stated in the recipe item ingame that says how to make it. The egg acts as a 'binding agent' to hold all the ingredients together into a 'kibble' consistency. The egg is not the primary ingredient at all, it is the meat/berries/veggies that are the primary for most of the recipes. Also, take a look at real world pet food for cats/dogs. They do include berries/veggies in there along side the meat so for carnivores it makes sense. After all, the prey they eat would have those nutrients from the plants they feasted on, if you give a carnivore 100% meat that has been dried out, a lot of those nutrients get removed in the process and thus the added fruits/veggies to make up for it.

As for the herbivores, i do agree it would be neat having an 'all berry/veggie/honey' variant for them but they must still contain the fiber and egg as fiber is for digestion and the egg, as i stated before, is what holds it all together.

If the egg is not a primary ingredient, then any egg would suffice in any kibble because any egg can act as a binding agent.

Carnivores eat animal products.

If cats and dogs eat plant and animal products, then they are omnivores.

 

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You're too simplistic. Very few animals are strict herbivores or strict carnivores. Very few. These animals typically have the word "obligate" in front of their dietary preferences, and even then that often does not stop them from sampling.  Many animals we think of as carnivorous will partake of vegetable matter. Likewise, many animals we think of as herbivorous will partake of animal matter. Both are easy to find with minimal searching- easiest way to find the former is probably to search "Alligator + Fruit" in Google, easiest way to find examples of the latter is likely typing "Deer + Eating + Meat" into google (although I will be quite surprised if it does not offer you something more specific before you finish filling it in).  Alligators are mostly carnivorous. Same applies to cats and dogs, although cats are much more carnivorous than dogs, to the point where classifying cats as obligate carnivores would not necessarily be wrong1. Bears are much more fluid in their food preferences for the most part (obligate carnivore the polar bear and obligate herbivore the panda say hi), so they get classified as omnivores. However, specific populations will lean more towards the carnivorous side of the spectrum or the herbivorous side of the spectrum, even within the same species.  

Regardless, the "realism" to the kibble is frankly beside the point. For suspension of disbelief purposes, kibble can be kibble, and what it's made of in specific to fit a creature's preferences does not have to matter as long as those ingredients are edible. They just happen to prefer kibble which reflects how easy they are to obtain from a player survival progression standpoint. Which, for a game like this, is the best way to organize it IMO, since it reflects the expected gameplay.

Gabriel, I am somewhat confused whether or not you have perused the available information on the kibble rework at this time. If not, here is a link to the relevant information regarding the beta.  It should still be accurate as of this writing. If yes, disregard this.

Also, for the future, it would be appreciated if you did not supersize the font in your posts, it makes them difficult to read.  If this is for your own benefit, however, please disregard this.

 

1Pelleted food which is too high in vegetable matter is actually not healthy for cats for this reason. They will still eat it and even like it, however, because like us they will not necessarily make the best dietary choices when presented with said choice. Cats are anecdotally fond of marshmallow flavor/ marshmallows for some reason, for example. 

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4 hours ago, Gabriel388 said:

If the egg is not a primary ingredient, then any egg would suffice in any kibble because any egg can act as a binding agent.

Carnivores eat animal products.

If cats and dogs eat plant and animal products, then they are omnivores.

 

Reason egg size matter is you have to consider which dinos the various kibble is for. The higher in tier you go, the LARGER in size (most of the time) the dinos that perfer it for taming. This means a lot more kibble is being made per serving and thus a larger egg is needed to bind it all. Imanaging trying to make 5 pounds of kibble with a tiny egg... Not going to work at all in keeping it bound together like it should be, and having to use who knows how many tiny eggs, when you can just use a giant egg instead..... Much easier

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4 hours ago, Eldar Seer said:

Regardless, the "realism" to the kibble is frankly beside the point. For suspension of disbelief purposes, kibble can be kibble, and what it's made of in specific to fit a creature's preferences does not have to matter as long as those ingredients are edible. They just happen to prefer kibble which reflects how easy they are to obtain from a player survival progression standpoint. Which, for a game like this, is the best way to organize it IMO, since it reflects the expected gameplay.

 I think the descriptions of the new rework kibble are stupid. There is no improvement over the old kibble system.

Exceptional kibble which contains focal chilli which contains 9 cooked meat to tame a herbivorous brontausaurus is a joke. How can a brontausaurus like kibble which contain focal chili. Focal chili is a omnivorous human dish containing 9 cooked meat. That is just ridiculous. The brontausaurus will vomit the exceptional kibble back into your face and refused to be tamed by you. Disgusting.

 

4 hours ago, Eldar Seer said:

Gabriel, I am somewhat confused whether or not you have perused the available information on the kibble rework at this time. If not, here is a link to the relevant information regarding the beta.  It should still be accurate as of this writing. If yes, disregard this.

Thank you. I have read that before putting my ideas here.

4 hours ago, Eldar Seer said:

Also, for the future, it would be appreciated if you did not supersize the font in your posts, it makes them difficult to read.  If this is for your own benefit, however, please disregard this.

I put the ideas I have on notepad on the iPad and then I copy and paste to here and it turns out this way.

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59 minutes ago, Dolphinsong said:

Reason egg size matter is you have to consider which dinos the various kibble is for. The higher in tier you go, the LARGER in size (most of the time) the dinos that perfer it for taming. This means a lot more kibble is being made per serving and thus a larger egg is needed to bind it all. Imanaging trying to make 5 pounds of kibble with a tiny egg... Not going to work at all in keeping it bound together like it should be, and having to use who knows how many tiny eggs, when you can just use a giant egg instead..... Much easier

You were talking about egg being not a primary ingredient and then egg size after that. I understand what you are saying. You are saying that small eggs bind the ingredients of a small kibble and big eggs bind the ingredients of a big kibble. Small eggs can also be used to bind the ingredients of a big kibble going by what you said earlier on but you need more of them. I get it, you like dinosaur eggs in your kibbles.

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@Gabriel388 Please use a normal font? This huge grey font is a real PITA to read. I agree in principle that having Herbivore/Carnivore/Omnivore kibble would also be a neat idea.

Another thing that I feel should be mentioned again: Carnivores in general, and Gigas in particular are NOT difficult to tame. It is way easier to tame a Giga early than say a Therizino. Yes, yes, Gigas are dangerous and take lots of narcotics and tranqs, but if you know what you're doing you can do that 8 hours after starting from scratch with like 5 to 10 dedicated people. We did exactly that on cross11. You don't need kibble, mutton is just fine. Especially on Ragnarok this is really easy. Arguably, if you do this during times one, you get +70 levels from kibble, and +59 from mutton, so you loose out on 11 levels. During times two (evo event), this changes to +73 with kibble and +70 with mutton. With times three it's 74 vs 72 levels. So for small tribes, during evo events and all boosted servers you simply DO NOT NEED CARNIVORE KIBBLE. This I think should also be addressed. Again, Herbivores really lack something between kibble and berries, like mutton does for almost all carnivores and herbivores. I also feel like the effectiveness of kibble should be improves, so it takes even less time with kibble. Otherwise, for carnivores at least, you can just ignore kibble. It is still a lot more difficult to obtain, and it does not do much more than mutton does.

Regarding cooking pot vs industrial cooker: I still feel like either the slot size of the cooking pot should be at least doubled, or there should be an in between cooker with like 50 slots or irrigation. Cooking lots of stuf with a cooking pot is an absolute pain in the butt, but the industrial cooker is a REALLY long way down the path, level requirement wise.

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Definitely in agreement RE: cooking pot slots.

 

Edit: From a quality of life and gameplay standpoint, the new kibble is certainly an improvement over the existing system and it's haphazard lines (lines which break on one or more of the extant DLC maps and require taming virtually every egg-laying animal in the game). This is where gameplay takes priority over "realism". Taming is a massive part of the game. As a result, you want the kibble system, which provides the most cost effective and time effective way of obtaining tames, to be accessible and to make sense from a gameplay perspective. Arguably, the new system is a good attempt to do just this.

Again, suspension of disbelief. If A) we accept that we can create giant floating satellites containing their own gravity, multiple ecosystems, weather, and a respawn system (which is canon) B) not just once, but hundreds or even thousands of times, C) said ecosystems consist of genetically modified variants of long-extinct animals from Earth's history and even entirely fantastical creatures, and D) That humans can digitally transfer themselves between these satellites, E) the fact that herbivores and carnivores share their kibble within a tier can easily be handwaved for the purposes of gameplay, without much difficulty. This is especially true considering that diets in game are not always consistent with what is known of the animals' habits in life.   

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10 hours ago, Eldar Seer said:

Edit: From a quality of life and gameplay standpoint, the new kibble is certainly an improvement over the existing system and it's haphazard lines (lines which break on one or more of the extant DLC maps and require taming virtually every egg-laying animal in the game). This is where gameplay takes priority over "realism". Taming is a massive part of the game. As a result, you want the kibble system, which provides the most cost effective and time effective way of obtaining tames, to be accessible and to make sense from a gameplay perspective. Arguably, the new system is a good attempt to do just this.

Again, suspension of disbelief. If A) we accept that we can create giant floating satellites containing their own gravity, multiple ecosystems, weather, and a respawn system (which is canon) B) not just once, but hundreds or even thousands of times, C) said ecosystems consist of genetically modified variants of long-extinct animals from Earth's history and even entirely fantastical creatures, and D) That humans can digitally transfer themselves between these satellites, E) the fact that herbivores and carnivores share their kibble within a tier can easily be handwaved for the purposes of gameplay, without much difficulty. This is especially true considering that diets in game are not always consistent with what is known of the animals' habits in life.   

The current kibble system is a lot more advance and took a lot more work to put together. It is actually very intricate and complex which is a good thing for this game. The new one is a joke. Why would you want to unravel the current kibble system to be replaced  by something inferior? I don't understand that. You're saying it is to make the game easier. That is not a good reason.

I read Girlygirlgamer322's points of view and I agree with her. She went out of her way to explain the whys. Changing the current kibble system to make the game easier is a bad reason for the change.

I can tell you what is going to happen. A lot of players will not know about this kibble change. When the change comes, they are going to be wondering what the hell happened because they have organised all their things and dinosaurs in a certain way to suit their tastes. That's when they'll look into the new kibble system and wonder about the changes.

From my point of view when I look at the rework kibble changes, I think it is stupid and a few downgrades from the previous system. If a current system is better, do not attempt to replace with an inferior system. What is not broken, do not fix. 

The best way to compare the current system with the new rework system is like this. The current system is like a ladder with about 50 steps to get to the top. To get to the top, you take steps in small increments. You get to the top safely because you got nice small steps to step on. Every step is like an experience to behold. Every dinosaur which requires taming is an experience in itself.

The new rework system is like a ladder with 6 steps to get to the top. It's like a shortcut ladder. Might be harder and more perilous to climb each step but once you do, that's the end. It's not a safe ladder to climb.

Which ladder is safer and more value for money? I go with the one with 50 steps. If one of the steps break, I got closer steps to support me. Also it cost a lot more to make. Safer and more value.

 

I want to ask you something. Most experienced Ark survival players, when taming a herbivore, if they were given a choice of preferred kibble to feed the herbivore, would they feed the herbivore with a plant based kibble or a plant and animal based kibble if both kibbles tamed the herbivore in equal times.

Which kibble would the majority of Ark Survival players choose?

Or

Do you think most Ark Survival players don't care about such matters?

I read somewhere, you said something along the lines of you don't like to be hamstringed to what you can tame. If you are of that mind, why should I be hamstringed into feeding a herbivore animal products when I am taming them. I want to keep my herbivores healthy and not make them become carnivorous because of my unconscionable conduct. I don't think it is unreasonable to have plant based kibble. This kind of kibble exists in real life. How much more so it can exist in this game, right?

One can get affected quite severely in this game even though the dinosaurs are just pixels on a screen. I negligently caused a Ichthyosaurus' death when I tamed it near a Cnidaria which I thought was far enough from us as I did not wish to kill it haphazardly. It was a bad decision which led to death. I felt guilty in my conduct which ended the life of such a friendly creature. I won't be so kind to a Cnidaria the next time round.

 

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... Yeah, if this is going to turn into yet another debate, not going to engage. You will sure as hell not convince me, and I'm sure as hell not going to convince you, and if I try it's going to turn into both of us writing novels in this thread and cluttering it up. We have both made up our minds, that much is clear to me.  

 

Regardless, there is going to be a livestream involving this and the S+ integration tomorrow. I do not think I will be able to attend, but if you want to engage directly I would assume it is as good an opportunity as you will get.

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17 hours ago, dark7np said:

 

@Gabriel388 Please use a normal font? This huge grey font is a real PITA to read. I agree in principle that having Herbivore/Carnivore/Omnivore kibble would also be a neat idea.

 

I'm sorry about that. It's a copy and paste job from notepad on iPad to here. It just turned out this way. I'm glad you managed to read it though. On the iPad, I can read what I pasted on here quite easily. Could be one of those technology anomalies. Sorry once again.

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I personally prefer this new kibble setup a lot more than I do the old. Hell, I never even BOTHERED with the old version after maybe 3 tries because its just too CHAOTIC to remember what tames prefer which freaking egg type kibble and instead just went the usual berry/veggie/meat route instead of attempting to do the kibbles. This new version I actually LIKE doing and using cause it greatly reduces the number of dinos I would keep around just for egg production. Now I need only to have 6 types of kibble to store and easily grab when planning on going out on a taming run and easily tame something and be able to tame then and there cause i already have one of the kibbles they enjoy without me having to recall which of the 50 types of kibble does so-and-so like best and hope I have the means to make it.

This is why I think the new kibble system is easier. And true players will read update notes when the game does a patch/game update so that they can see the new changes, meaning only those stupid enough to not read said notes will be confused by the kibble rework and that's their own fault.

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I am just trying to be objective in analysing gameplay and the detail of this game. I don't let my personal preference get in the way of analysing a game.

Personally for me, I could care less whether the kibble tree is complex or easy.

I would be contend with just 3 types of kibble.

Herbivore kibble for me to feed my herbivores, carnivore kibble for me to feed my carnivores and omnivore kibble for me to feed my omnivores. 

If you want easy and simple, that is easy and simple.

Why have 6 types of kibble when you can have 3. Makes taming even easier.

And if you don't care about what you feed your herbivores or carnivores or omnivores, why not just have 1 type of kibble that does everything instead of 6?

Small dinosaurs eat small quantity of the kibble, big dinosaurs eat big quantity of the kibble.

That would really make life easier for everyone.

In this way based on your arguments, you can tame whatever dinosaur you want in this game without any difficulty whatsoever.

Am I not pragmatic? And objective as well?

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It still boggles my mind that Griffins, Megalania, and Thylacoleo tame with Extraordinary kibble.  What, exactly, about them puts them in that tier?

 

16 minutes ago, Gabriel388 said:

I am just trying to be objective in analysing gameplay and the detail of this game. I don't let my personal preference get in the way of analysing a game.

Personally for me, I could care less whether the kibble tree is complex or easy.

I would be contend with just 3 types of kibble.

Herbivore kibble for me to feed my herbivores, carnivore kibble for me to feed my carnivores and omnivore kibble for me to feed my omnivores. 

If you want easy and simple, that is easy and simple.

Why have 6 types of kibble when you can have 3. Makes taming even easier.

And if you don't care about what you feed your herbivores or carnivores or omnivores, why not just have 1 type of kibble that does everything instead of 6?

Small dinosaurs eat small quantity of the kibble, big dinosaurs eat big quantity of the kibble.

That would really make life easier for everyone.

In this way based on your arguments, you can tame whatever dinosaur you want in this game without any difficulty whatsoever.

Am I not pragmatic? And objective as well?

This is what is called a strawman argument.  What you're suggesting would completely obliterate any semblance of progression in the kibble system.

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