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TheDonn

If the Managarmr is going to be nerfed:

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@Jen  -  Could we get some heads up on how it will be nerfed, and some clear information, if only in the patch notes?  The irritation to the community caused by the stealth/hidden Velonasaur damage nerf was pretty bad, and it also stung pretty hard being treated like that, as a player (personally - if it didn't affect you, then don't worry about it, no need to explain how everyone should feel the way you do).  People reported from their servers (with damage numbers turned on) a significant drop in Velonasaur spindle damage, as much as 20% if I remember right, but nothing was in the patch notes about it dropping in damage.  In fact, the patch notes seemed all positive for Velonasaurs!

So, if the Managarmr is to be nerfed, just communicate what is happening.  Right now they are extremely potent...  With that targeting fix these things -WRECK- everything.  Again, just be clear in communicating with us.  Something so overtly powerful has never stayed unchanged in ARK for very long, so we need to prepare for this.

But again, just let us know what you all are changing in a clear way.

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They're so potent because they are the most apex (one could argue the giga is) living mount in the game that isn't a titan or a machine. I think the stamina nerf was already borderline too much nerfing for the mana considering how absolutely pathetic they are if they are anything but  very high level tame or bred. Go tame a lvl 80 mana and tell me how OP it is. It's almost as bad as a low/mid level griffin.

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2 hours ago, AndrewLB said:

They're so potent because they are the most apex (one could argue the giga is) living mount in the game that isn't a titan or a machine. I think the stamina nerf was already borderline too much nerfing for the mana considering how absolutely pathetic they are if they are anything but  very high level tame or bred. Go tame a lvl 80 mana and tell me how OP it is. It's almost as bad as a low/mid level griffin.

Naah.....  This is not about level 80 tames bud.  This is about people with 7k+ HP, 370+ melee birth non-mutated manas, fully imprinting them out and being untouchable.  Come on Andrew!  When examining the META role of a tame, one never EVER looks at anything less than level 250 post-breeding.  A level 80 Rex is bad too, as is a level 80 Giga, especially compared to bred ones.

Let's look at the Giga.  A middle-value for a level 80 Giga (from one point above low to one point below high) is 155 melee damage.  That is a start of 75% melee damage considering 80% melee damage nerf, so 155-80=75, and even on a kibble tame it gains 38 levels to a finish of level 118.  Miracles happen in ARK but let's assume an ARK Standard level distribution and say 15% of bonus levels go to melee:  38*.15=5.7, let's bump to 6.  The 6 extra levels on our start of 75% melee are now bumped to 105% melee.  Actually, we didn't do TOO bad eh?  With 100% base damage of tamed Gigas at 480, at 105% we are hitting for 504 melee!

As we level it up, we gain .85% of the original tamed level per point invested in melee, meaning 105*.0085=.8905 melee damage per level, let's round up to .9 for ease of maths.  After 70 level-ups, we are now at 168 melee damage (105+(.9*70)).  168 melee hits for 806.4 damage, again not too bad!

But let's look at an imprinted old-Giga breed:  285 melee at birth.  We imprint it up to 80% imprint, that is 80% of 20% bonus to melee, so 20*.8=16, or our total bonus percentage to melee damage from imprinting alone.  285*.16=45.6 melee, and 285+45.6 = 330.6 melee post-imprint.  330.6 melee Gigas hit for 1586.9 damage, +/- .1 damage.  Now, rider imprint:  we get 80% of the 30% rider damage bonus:  30*.8=24 percent increase when ridden by the imprinted rider.  You are now hitting for 1967.7 damage as the imprinted rider!  Let's level it up:  with 70 levels, each level gives 2.8 melee per point on melee, and 330.6+(2.8*70)=526.6 melee, or 2527.7 damage per bite.  Adding the imprint bonus to the damage figure, 2527.7*1.24=3134.3 damage per bite as the imprinted rider, with only an 80% imprint and 70 levels.

You see what I mean man?  504 (five-hundred four) damage versus 3134 (three-thousand thirty-four) damage.  That is a level 80 Giga versus a bred lower-imprint Giga from an old line (325 exists on the trade forums, maybe higher).  That is why I think using an example of how weak a creature is at 80 is irrelevant to end-game breeding lines and imprinting.  You did mention that high-end tames and breeding makes them functional, and I agree on that part, but I hope you understand my previous point, as well as my next one.

People on Managarmr (and Gigas) don't typically ride around on level 80 tames, because there is way more potential in the high-end after establishing a strong breeding line and imprinting them.  Using an inferior level as support to their overall lack of need for nerfing is like saying a stock-trim economy-styled Honda Civic can only go 85 MPH top-speed, so therefore Formula-1 cars should be able to go as fast as they want on public highways and streets.

That being said, again, @Jen:  Please keep us informed as to coming Managarmr nerfs!  We need communication from the Mother of Parasaurs.

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At their current state Managrm are bit too OP. They can freeze beyond turret range. Allso Basilisk breath effecting ppl inside a building is broken. Say you have 2x2 fob and beds on it. if there is basilisk spam you will die non stop inside the building and cant do anything.

Mangrm freeze happens in 0.5 seconds or so. And then you are out of the fight and will die unless the player stops the freeze breath. Allso why on earth the Freeze even breaks your armor? Aint the Freeze + HP damage enough. 

A Managmr and basilisk combo against a fob and you have pretty solid defence. 

Allso the managrm seems to be bugged. I shot 25 times with crossbow at one NO RED marker of a hit. Tribe mate found an unriden one shot it with compound bow at point blank range. He did not hit it once. 

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Managrmrs pre-patch ice breath was laughable and barely registered hits.

Post-patch, WC went the complete other side of the spectrum. Now, I hardly miss anything with the breath and the range is beyond retarded. Btw, when you freeze flyer mid-air, it does fall on the ground, making this ability even more retarded.

For the sake of it, I went on and did plenty of testing with my managrmr. I discovered rather quickly that the breath (post-patch) was insanely strong against alphas and that I could tear them apart in seconds no matter the level. I pushed my experiment further and tackled a wild giga using the breath only and it worked like a charm. How about a titanosaur? As easy as everything else really.

To further showcase how OP the post-patch breath is and for the lols, me and a tribemate killed all 3 titans on Extinction with a pair of tamed/mate boosted managrmrs (4k stam 700% melee). Each titan took less than 5 mins to take down and they never deemed to look at us because they were busy killing the wildlife around them.

**PS** Small bug/exploit here regarding the breath: If you start using it mid air above a body of water and keep on using it will droping into said water, the breath won't cancel at all. You and your mount will sink directly at the bottom of the water allowing you to kill tusos/mosas with minimal effort. As soon as you stop the ice breath, you'll start floating upwards.

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On 12/24/2018 at 8:50 AM, Darkholis said:

Managrmrs pre-patch ice breath was laughable and barely registered hits.

Post-patch, WC went the complete other side of the spectrum. Now, I hardly miss anything with the breath and the range is beyond retarded. Btw, when you freeze flyer mid-air, it does fall on the ground, making this ability even more retarded.

For the sake of it, I went on and did plenty of testing with my managrmr. I discovered rather quickly that the breath (post-patch) was insanely strong against alphas and that I could tear them apart in seconds no matter the level. I pushed my experiment further and tackled a wild giga using the breath only and it worked like a charm. How about a titanosaur? As easy as everything else really.

To further showcase how OP the post-patch breath is and for the lols, me and a tribemate killed all 3 titans on Extinction with a pair of tamed/mate boosted managrmrs (4k stam 700% melee). Each titan took less than 5 mins to take down and they never deemed to look at us because they were busy killing the wildlife around them.

**PS** Small bug/exploit here regarding the breath: If you start using it mid air above a body of water and keep on using it will droping into said water, the breath won't cancel at all. You and your mount will sink directly at the bottom of the water allowing you to kill tusos/mosas with minimal effort. As soon as you stop the ice breath, you'll start floating upwards.

I agree.  I LOVE the power...  But can't help but feel someone at WildCard is stretching out their forearm to wield the nerf-hammer.  I just want the information about what is changing (if or when it is), not another Velonasaur stealth-nerf.

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Guys guys, guys... you are missing WildCard's point and they are laughing at our faces. THEY WILL Nerf the Managarmr, Yes...but not yet.

Consider this, as Ark was and is dying by lack of fixes, megatribes, lack of ranked tribes etc etc, and the game's own natural life cycle, the sales were going low, and lot's of people quitting Ark, making for server cost to sky rocket, as they can't just close servers just because, overnight.

And so comes the new DLC Extinction, but only core fans were going to buy it...hell I love this game but I haven't found a reason to buy Extinction, and like me, many others haven't...
So WildCard plays a strategy of utmost intelligence...they purposely put an OP Dino in their last DLC, giving a reason to pleeenty of players to buy Extinction...they all want a Mana, every tribe needs Manas if you don't want to be bullyed and have a fighting chance...and months later, after Extinction sales hit high peak and start coming down, they release a fix, which I ASSURE YOU, It's ALREADY DONE to balance things up...

FFS I'm a programmer, but I don't do games, and even my company has made us intentionally program ''bugs'' on purpose to boost sales or has delayed a fix because sales were sky rocketing...
It's just genius and a way that makes the consumer think it was an honest mistake, but Hell NO, we're playing you...

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1 hour ago, Blitzace89 said:

Guys guys, guys... you are missing WildCard's point and they are laughing at our faces. THEY WILL Nerf the Managarmr, Yes...but not yet.

Consider this, as Ark was and is dying by lack of fixes, megatribes, lack of ranked tribes etc etc, and the game's own natural life cycle, the sales were going low, and lot's of people quitting Ark, making for server cost to sky rocket, as they can't just close servers just because, overnight.

And so comes the new DLC Extinction, but only core fans were going to buy it...hell I love this game but I haven't found a reason to buy Extinction, and like me, many others haven't...
So WildCard plays a strategy of utmost intelligence...they purposely put an OP Dino in their last DLC, giving a reason to pleeenty of players to buy Extinction...they all want a Mana, every tribe needs Manas if you don't want to be bullyed and have a fighting chance...and months later, after Extinction sales hit high peak and start coming down, they release a fix, which I ASSURE YOU, It's ALREADY DONE to balance things up...

FFS I'm a programmer, but I don't do games, and even my company has made us intentionally program ''bugs'' on purpose to boost sales or has delayed a fix because sales were sky rocketing...
It's just genius and a way that makes the consumer think it was an honest mistake, but Hell NO, we're playing you...

You are way too cynical

 

They literally do not gate the tame behind DLC, they have proven that by letting you ride one or trade for one if you dont have Extinction. Like every tame or item in the game, it can be gotten through trading even if you dont own the DLC. 

 

It really irritates me when people cry "p2w!!" For  ....DLC... (not that you did) 

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8 minutes ago, d1nk said:

You are way too cynical

 

They literally do not gate the tame behind DLC, they have proven that by letting you ride one or trade for one if you dont have Extinction. Like every tame or item in the game, it can be gotten through trading even if you dont own the DLC. 

 

It really irritates me when people cry "p2w!!" For  ....DLC... (not that you did) 

No, i didn't mean to be cynical, and I know it's not p2w and that anyone can obtain tames and items without owning said DLC...but it's just a reason for people to buy more, not just because of the tame, the DLC of course has more content to enjoy, I was just warning to the hidden marketing scheme that plenty of companies do. They create the illusion that you neeed something to thrive. Hell, I was so pissed the other day because I lost 5 griffs and 6 pts to a lvl 200 Mana, that even I wanted to buy Extinction right away to go tame one...

The Dino design is beautiful and that alone makes me crave one, plus it's OP...every griefer now-a-days comes with one. But I'm almost sure that that was an intentional play by WildCard and I personally don't blame them...except when I lose high lvl Griffs and bred Pts to a Mana well outside my fighting range. Seriously, that thing killed my char with a full mc flak faster than I can spell BS.

Manas should be ''support'' dinos in my opinion, range should be nerfed to the same as a turret set on high and breath should freeze/slow you during cooldown...NOT damage you or your armor...or do minimal damage

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Simple fix get gud!!!!!!!xD is what I've been told XD people have cryed over the gacha now look at it its straight crap I say leave the mana the way it is I personally enjoy being able to fight from far distances when let's say a titan or enemy player comes trolling these things u can't get close to attack or ur deadmeat

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On 12/20/2018 at 3:23 AM, TheDonn said:

Naah.....  This is not about level 80 tames bud.  This is about people with 7k+ HP, 370+ melee birth non-mutated manas, fully imprinting them out and being untouchable.  Come on Andrew!  When examining the META role of a tame, one never EVER looks at anything less than level 250 post-breeding.  A level 80 Rex is bad too, as is a level 80 Giga, especially compared to bred ones.

Let's look at the Giga.  A middle-value for a level 80 Giga (from one point above low to one point below high) is 155 melee damage.  That is a start of 75% melee damage considering 80% melee damage nerf, so 155-80=75, and even on a kibble tame it gains 38 levels to a finish of level 118.  Miracles happen in ARK but let's assume an ARK Standard level distribution and say 15% of bonus levels go to melee:  38*.15=5.7, let's bump to 6.  The 6 extra levels on our start of 75% melee are now bumped to 105% melee.  Actually, we didn't do TOO bad eh?  With 100% base damage of tamed Gigas at 480, at 105% we are hitting for 504 melee!

As we level it up, we gain .85% of the original tamed level per point invested in melee, meaning 105*.0085=.8905 melee damage per level, let's round up to .9 for ease of maths.  After 70 level-ups, we are now at 168 melee damage (105+(.9*70)).  168 melee hits for 806.4 damage, again not too bad!

But let's look at an imprinted old-Giga breed:  285 melee at birth.  We imprint it up to 80% imprint, that is 80% of 20% bonus to melee, so 20*.8=16, or our total bonus percentage to melee damage from imprinting alone.  285*.16=45.6 melee, and 285+45.6 = 330.6 melee post-imprint.  330.6 melee Gigas hit for 1586.9 damage, +/- .1 damage.  Now, rider imprint:  we get 80% of the 30% rider damage bonus:  30*.8=24 percent increase when ridden by the imprinted rider.  You are now hitting for 1967.7 damage as the imprinted rider!  Let's level it up:  with 70 levels, each level gives 2.8 melee per point on melee, and 330.6+(2.8*70)=526.6 melee, or 2527.7 damage per bite.  Adding the imprint bonus to the damage figure, 2527.7*1.24=3134.3 damage per bite as the imprinted rider, with only an 80% imprint and 70 levels.

You see what I mean man?  504 (five-hundred four) damage versus 3134 (three-thousand thirty-four) damage.  That is a level 80 Giga versus a bred lower-imprint Giga from an old line (325 exists on the trade forums, maybe higher).  That is why I think using an example of how weak a creature is at 80 is irrelevant to end-game breeding lines and imprinting.  You did mention that high-end tames and breeding makes them functional, and I agree on that part, but I hope you understand my previous point, as well as my next one.

People on Managarmr (and Gigas) don't typically ride around on level 80 tames, because there is way more potential in the high-end after establishing a strong breeding line and imprinting them.  Using an inferior level as support to their overall lack of need for nerfing is like saying a stock-trim economy-styled Honda Civic can only go 85 MPH top-speed, so therefore Formula-1 cars should be able to go as fast as they want on public highways and streets.

That being said, again, @Jen:  Please keep us informed as to coming Managarmr nerfs!  We need communication from the Mother of Parasaurs.

This is how you state a case. Well done.

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So I never really rode a Mana before the nerf.. Now that its been out for a bit, how are people finding them?

 

Ive raised a few now and it seems the only good use (im PVE) is fast transport (basically all stam) or some sort of kinda-lightning wyvern ?  Messed around a bit with a melee one, was loads of fun but pretty squishy against the hazards you would practically use it for: OSD, Veins etc. 

What are people's usual leveled mana look like for each purpose? 

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On 2/2/2019 at 4:10 PM, Daace said:

 

you are saying this is OP that is OP managarmr is OP

BUT!!! its not OP because when the player is stupid he will die with it?

You are basicaly saying downloading a aimbot is OK as well. becouse when someone is stupid he will die with it..

 

Its like you are conflicted within yourself about this topic..

 

Yes a aimbot is a bit op, when someone clicks with a mouse he will make a headshot.

BUT its not OP. If he is stupid he will die with it AND!!! better players with a aimbot will  kill him anyway!

 

 

And the managarmr is the small tribes answer to megatribes?
Everybody who claims this has no idea what he is saying..

 

A megatribe is the definition of ALOT of people...

Making something that is able to fight the effort of alot of people solo = broken and OP.

When im able to kill 10 people with 1 managarmr.

Then 10 people will  be able to kill a 100 and so on...

And yes im a mostly solo player.. so im not defending the terror of the megatribes here..
And there already is a answer to that its called smalltribe servers..

Smalltribes actualy was a lot of fun before mana's came....

 

In any situation and always and ever:  More people will beat less people when they have equal skills.

Unless something broken and OP is boosting the minority.

 

When a toddler is getting bullied and beaten in the playground by 10 kids.

The correct response is not to the the toddler a shotgun and say now things are even!

it would make the toddler to OP.

Especialy if the 10 other kids are also able to get their hands on shotguns..

And this is basicaly what happened to ark in a funny and twisted way.

 

 

They are the only counter to a titan?!??!

So what you are saying is a titan is sooo OP only a managarmr can beat it??  What makes that of the managarmr???

does that not make it even more OP ??

At least a titan is hard to tame and you can just run the raptor away from it.

and alot of other things! im not getting killed and rekt by titans EVERY raptorING DAY..

The answer to OP titans is not a more OP dino.. but rather a nerf or a handicaps to the titan...

 

 

And get the definition of PVP right....

PVP is not raiding offline bases and tames.

 

True pvp is people clashing into eachother shooting and fighting with dino's in this case..

And this can be the case during a base raid..

And there used to be multiple dino's to counter one another.

But now its just managarmr.

And maybe the ONLY thing that could possibly counter the Mana is one of the most powerfull other dino's in the game  ''a wyvern''... ( your words )

I personaly think if you have 2 people equaly skilled the wyvern gets rekt.

 

 

So can you just be honist now and you just like to ride the mana and grief even more easy then you already did with your giga.

Becouse now you can actualy kill the players as well becouse they can't even run away anymore..

 

Good interactive gameplay!

 

Ark pvp at the moment is  ''Get a Managarmr or get raptored by one.''

 

And How is this dino fun in pve?
Ark is a realy beautifull large game.

The maps are huge and traveling is a big and important part of this game.

Gathering recources and searching for them and tames is a big part of PVE in this game.

 

How is making a dino that can just zap from 1 side to the other beneficial to this feeling?

It just makes the game small. and achievements less satisfying.

 

I have seen Youtube video of a guy just sitting on a cliff on a mana just press 1 buttong ( breath ) to kill a boss.

This was prolly before the nerf. but he can prolly still do it.. just takes more time. or just bring a friend and hold 1 button together!

 

The one thing a games needs to offer is a challenge, It does not matter if that is in PVE or PVP. And managarmr is removing that for both pvp and pve unless your are fighting another managarmr...

And fighting a mana without a mana is not a challenge its not doable..

 

Yes its hard to nerf a managarmr without making it underpowerd.. But underpowerd dino's don't ruin games.. So imo nerf it it so bad a dodo will Unicorn it i don't care.

 

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funny its only about the pvp aspects here no pve aspects are taken into consideration at all... 


You can adapt to these things and why wouldnt you?

windows snipe snipe... there you go now your interrupting it... and dmging it! win win! keep a few perimiters turrets and a few bunkers there you go snipe snipe... there you go now it cannot youch your base and poop!... soo again pvp wise its bad.... 

You can counter them easy mode.. poisy wyvern there you go now you killed the rider now swoop in and kill it.... all it takes is two hits... so i dont know what your on about.....

and thats one way to do things...

Build a few pens for your animals there you go now they are safe (hell they dont even dmg structures with their breaths..) So again what is exactly op about them? you have so many counters... soo again wheres the op about it? true raiders will still come with stegoes and poop... to soak the turrets and such soo yeah fast escape is needed ofc soo meh? 

 

and you can do alot to defend yourself you can interrupt them shot them=interrupts... yeah you can escape fast but the stam drain is insane on them atm soo again wheres the op about them? you can cath them easy mode....

One thing you can do and proberly a bug is go into water and go off it on it again full stam yeah but you still need to be in deep waters... thats proberly a bug...

soo again nothing is op about them yeah they kill titans but pvers needs them to kill em! 

else how are you gonna kill em? please answer that...

 

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3 hours ago, Moriaxx said:

funny its only about the pvp aspects here no pve aspects are taken into consideration at all... 


You can adapt to these things and why wouldnt you?

windows snipe snipe... there you go now your interrupting it... and dmging it! win win! keep a few perimiters turrets and a few bunkers there you go snipe snipe... there you go now it cannot youch your base and poop!... soo again pvp wise its bad.... 

You can counter them easy mode.. poisy wyvern there you go now you killed the rider now swoop in and kill it.... all it takes is two hits... so i dont know what your on about.....

and thats one way to do things...

Build a few pens for your animals there you go now they are safe (hell they dont even dmg structures with their breaths..) So again what is exactly op about them? you have so many counters... soo again wheres the op about it? true raiders will still come with stegoes and poop... to soak the turrets and such soo yeah fast escape is needed ofc soo meh? 

 

and you can do alot to defend yourself you can interrupt them shot them=interrupts... yeah you can escape fast but the stam drain is insane on them atm soo again wheres the op about them? you can cath them easy mode....

One thing you can do and proberly a bug is go into water and go off it on it again full stam yeah but you still need to be in deep waters... thats proberly a bug...

soo again nothing is op about them yeah they kill titans but pvers needs them to kill em! 

else how are you gonna kill em? please answer that...

 

How are you hitting Manas with poison wyverns ? They are fastest dino in game .

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