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New player getting stomped on small tribes (not a rant, asking for advice)


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On 9/14/2019 at 8:30 PM, ForzaProiettile said:

I see things differently. My experience from thousands of hours playing this game is that to be properly successful in ARK PVP you have to adopt a particular philosophy, a certain way of playing void of morals and ethics. This game requires total war in order to win, every aspect has to be covered. There are the obvious ones like combat and the less obvious ones such as politics, diplomacy and subterfuge.

I and my group have become quite adapt at working server politics to my tribe's advantage through various schemes and plots. I've succeeded in making deals against my allies, luring my allies into a war and then not helping them, getting one ally to fight another. I even sold out some allies to a Chinese tribe in exchange for a share of the loot and a treaty between us. One of the best tricks you can do is kick off a war between two stronger tribes, then sit back as they delete each other only for you to come in at the end collect the spoils.

I've also found that people in this game tend to believe what they want to believe no matter how unlikely it is. If your ally is saying he suspects Tribe A has been stealth raiding some of his bases, then you simply lure one of Tribe A's tames to be near one of your allies base then you go on their TeamSpeak and tell them about your discovery. Works like a charm. Similarly If there is some new Chinese tribe on the server, then that's a great opportunity to create a war. Simply have some of your tribe members create a few Chinese alts and go wild, attacking everyone (even yourself, of course you miraculously fail to do anything more then blow up a wall). People are lazy and they will conclude its a Chinese conspiracy to take over the server. I've never not seen this work and I've used it many times.

Player's ego is another aspect you can take advantage of. Many of the big tribes will often have several loudmouths in them, they are easy to spot. They will always be boasting in global chat about relatively minor things. Create a tribe name similar to another tribe, then go and hunt one of these loudmouths down. Kill him and slaughter his 100% imprinted tame and rub it in a bit then sit back and watch. He'll leap into action without even questioning it, that tribe you mimicked will be deleted by the big tribe and you'll have won yourself some potential allies that you can exploit.

 

Wow I know this is an old post but just had to comment.

Forza I think you've read a Sun Tzu Art of War book and are investing too much into this game.  Your premise that this game requires total war in order to win is misplaced.  I don't think the definition of "winning" is even articulated anywhere so "winning" is really an ever changing definition in the eye of the beholder.  Your premise that you also have to adopt a "set in stone" philosophy is also misplaced and restricts your ability to assess each situation uniquely and conduct yourself according to the situation.  While all of the skills you mentioned are certainly applicable in this game as a whole....they are most certainly NOT applicable when applying it to your solo player scenario that your "particular philosophy" dictated to torment into quitting the game.

Even if we stipulate your philosophy is the only philosophy that can be applied to the game....you have really violated your own philosophy.  Your original mission was to "soften up the server" for your mega tribe to come in and finish the job.  Was tormenting this solo player really critical to your softening up strategy?  Could the time and resources you invested to raid this solo player over and over be put to better use against actual valuable targets in that server?  The questions are of course rhetorical  and speak for themselves.  An objective viewer can only surmise that your reasons for beating this solo player into submission are likely a combination that you 1....derive personal pleasure from conducting yourself this way (which I think most people can agree is pretty disgusting) and 2....you've read "The Art of War" way too many times and have some kind of emotional investment in putting those principles into practice in a game (possibly because applying "The Art of War" in a game is more palatable than whatever your real life situation is....but its of course impossible for me to know your motives for sure).

In summary....when we examine this not from the technical definition of what "PvP" means in Ark, but instead from a holistic real life viewpoint of human decency....most people would agree that what you did was un-necessary, not even really valuable to what your mission was, and just being a scummy human being in general.

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50 minutes ago, shepheard said:

Wow I know this is an old post but just had to comment.

Forza I think you've read a Sun Tzu Art of War book and are investing too much into this game.  Your premise that this game requires total war in order to win is misplaced.  I don't think the definition of "winning" is even articulated anywhere so "winning" is really an ever changing definition in the eye of the beholder.  Your premise that you also have to adopt a "set in stone" philosophy is also misplaced and restricts your ability to assess each situation uniquely and conduct yourself according to the situation.  While all of the skills you mentioned are certainly applicable in this game as a whole....they are most certainly NOT applicable when applying it to your solo player scenario that your "particular philosophy" dictated to torment into quitting the game.

Even if we stipulate your philosophy is the only philosophy that can be applied to the game....you have really violated your own philosophy.  Your original mission was to "soften up the server" for your mega tribe to come in and finish the job.  Was tormenting this solo player really critical to your softening up strategy?  Could the time and resources you invested to raid this solo player over and over be put to better use against actual valuable targets in that server?  The questions are of course rhetorical  and speak for themselves.  An objective viewer can only surmise that your reasons for beating this solo player into submission are likely a combination that you 1....derive personal pleasure from conducting yourself this way (which I think most people can agree is pretty disgusting) and 2....you've read "The Art of War" way too many times and have some kind of emotional investment in putting those principles into practice in a game (possibly because applying "The Art of War" in a game is more palatable than whatever your real life situation is....but its of course impossible for me to know your motives for sure).

In summary....when we examine this not from the technical definition of what "PvP" means in Ark, but instead from a holistic real life viewpoint of human decency....most people would agree that what you did was un-necessary, not even really valuable to what your mission was, and just being a scummy human being in general.

pvp is a cruel world …. like myself will kill first no matter what ...I foundation wipe every raid .I will not leave nothing for an enemy to build again.i will attack solo/mega/smaller tribes ..its a dog eat dog world^^ ...drip or drown  as the saying goes lol . if u don't raid/wipe torment your enemies u place that thought of weakness in the server.but if u show no mercy u instill fear which can be a gd thing aswell..that solo player was a future /present enemy...think of it as lessons .every time ur wiped look at how. then adapt and change

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17 hours ago, Lycan187u said:

pvp is a cruel world …. like myself will kill first no matter what ...I foundation wipe every raid .I will not leave nothing for an enemy to build again.i will attack solo/mega/smaller tribes ..its a dog eat dog world^^ ...drip or drown  as the saying goes lol . if u don't raid/wipe torment your enemies u place that thought of weakness in the server.but if u show no mercy u instill fear which can be a gd thing aswell..that solo player was a future /present enemy...think of it as lessons .every time ur wiped look at how. then adapt and change

I hope those of you who operate like this put half as much thought into the real world. Experience (online gaming since the early 90s) tells me it is not likely. At least you are the kings of your digital world amiright?

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57 minutes ago, Groovdog said:

I hope those of you who operate like this put half as much thought into the real world. Experience (online gaming since the early 90s) tells me it is not likely. At least you are the kings of your digital world amiright?

I do ;) is why I work for myself I'm my own ruler xD doesn't take much thought on how to be a ruthless killer in ark hehe 

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1 hour ago, Groovdog said:

I hope those of you who operate like this put half as much thought into the real world. Experience (online gaming since the early 90s) tells me it is not likely. At least you are the kings of your digital world amiright?

Sorry to quote again. My phones Lil wonky.but yes this isn't the real world it's ark...ppl seem to think that how you play reflects you as a person ...wrong...I'm the kindest person u could meet irl.but in ark it's kill or be killed. Join together and rule the ark.that saying doesn't mean be nice to ppl and let your enemies  build a base so they can attack u later. ...it literally  means rule the ark.and u better rule with a iron fist or be pooped on .drip or drown

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22 hours ago, Lycan187u said:

pvp is a cruel world …. like myself will kill first no matter what ...I foundation wipe every raid .I will not leave nothing for an enemy to build again.i will attack solo/mega/smaller tribes ..its a dog eat dog world^^ ...drip or drown  as the saying goes lol . if u don't raid/wipe torment your enemies u place that thought of weakness in the server.but if u show no mercy u instill fear which can be a gd thing aswell..that solo player was a future /present enemy...think of it as lessons .every time ur wiped look at how. then adapt and change

That solo player posed absolutely zero threat in this specific situation.  Wiping him once or twice is fine.....but the continued wiping in this scenario no longer holds any value on the battle field and the time expended should have been invested in higher value targets.  But that time and resources were sacrificed.....for what....again I can only surmise Mr. Forza was extracting pure pleasure from the tormenting of this solo player....which the average reasonable person would agree is being a scummy human being.

Saying things like "pvp is a cruel world", "drip or drown", ".....place that thought of weakness in the server..." are all internal rationalizations designed to make being a scummy human OK in the mind.  Because no one naturally wants to be a scummy human being....so we rationalize.

Instilling fear can indeed be a good thing.....but not in this particular context.

Foundation wiping a real enemy....also a good thing and should be done.....but not in this particular context.

Every time you are wiped....looking at how and adapting and changing are necessary elements.  Not even applicable though to this context.

If I were a solo player on a server....you'd honestly never find me.  But that is not the point.  

My comments are solely to highlight the fact that this was a scummy thing to do.....to un-glorify being a scummy human being which Mr. Forza attempts to glorify with his rationalizations.  

It was not necessary to do what he did in the least.  This act was a scummy player doing a scummy thing in a video game.  You can be ruthless in this game without being a scummy human being.

 

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47 minutes ago, shepheard said:

That solo player posed absolutely zero threat in this specific situation.  Wiping him once or twice is fine.....but the continued wiping in this scenario no longer holds any value on the battle field and the time expended should have been invested in higher value targets.  But that time and resources were sacrificed.....for what....again I can only surmise Mr. Forza was extracting pure pleasure from the tormenting of this solo player....which the average reasonable person would agree is being a scummy human being.

Saying things like "pvp is a cruel world", "drip or drown", ".....place that thought of weakness in the server..." are all internal rationalizations designed to make being a scummy human OK in the mind.  Because no one naturally wants to be a scummy human being....so we rationalize.

Instilling fear can indeed be a good thing.....but not in this particular context.

Foundation wiping a real enemy....also a good thing and should be done.....but not in this particular context.

Every time you are wiped....looking at how and adapting and changing are necessary elements.  Not even applicable though to this context.

If I were a solo player on a server....you'd honestly never find me.  But that is not the point.  

My comments are solely to highlight the fact that this was a scummy thing to do.....to un-glorify being a scummy human being which Mr. Forza attempts to glorify with his rationalizations.  

It was not necessary to do what he did in the least.  This act was a scummy player doing a scummy thing in a video game.  You can be ruthless in this game without being a scummy human being.

 

These are ur opinions  ofc. I feel ya man  but...if I see a solo player he is an enemy. If u see duo tribe they are the enemy.if u see a trio tribe they're a enemy. I would blame ark as a whole...

It is a necessary  evil. That solo guy could have been a megatribe scout playing the part of a solo guy just to feel the server out..I mean breed gigas 12 day's then a single mana rider can kill it.it breeds  toxicity. And if you are solo and we can't find u then all the times u were wiped  was not in vain because u learned adapted and overcame those obstacles.     Just to add there's no hiding place on any map that I don't know of lol literally  I'm that  nerd xD

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7 hours ago, Lycan187u said:

These are ur opinions  ofc. I feel ya man  but...if I see a solo player he is an enemy. If u see duo tribe they are the enemy.if u see a trio tribe they're a enemy. I would blame ark as a whole...

It is a necessary  evil. That solo guy could have been a megatribe scout playing the part of a solo guy just to feel the server out..I mean breed gigas 12 day's then a single mana rider can kill it.it breeds  toxicity. And if you are solo and we can't find u then all the times u were wiped  was not in vain because u learned adapted and overcame those obstacles.     Just to add there's no hiding place on any map that I don't know of lol literally  I'm that  nerd xD

Again....none of your points apply to this particular player.  A Chinese mega-tribe scout is not going to rebuild in the exact same spot.  It was evident after wipe 2 that he was no threat.

This is not the game's fault (more rationalization)....they just provide a sandbox.  This is solely the choice of the scummy player being a scummy human being.  

This is not a necessary evil (more rationalization for being scummy).

A mana killing a Giga has nothing to do with this player (more rationalization for being scummy).

The good news is that we, at any time, can choose not to be scummy human beings.

By the way I never really got wiped....I just watched a couple youtube videos of people getting offline raided and decided building a base as a solo player was untenable in this game.

And dude....it would not even be worth your time to try to find me if I were on your server.  I've been on an official small tribes for months now....still haven't been killed and lost only 1 trash Argy with some stone on it.  No one has found either of my two stashes.  You should have bigger fish to fry with transfers open on Val ;) 

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8 hours ago, shepheard said:

Again....none of your points apply to this particular player.  A Chinese mega-tribe scout is not going to rebuild in the exact same spot.  It was evident after wipe 2 that he was no threat.

This is not the game's fault (more rationalization)....they just provide a sandbox.  This is solely the choice of the scummy player being a scummy human being.  

This is not a necessary evil (more rationalization for being scummy).

A mana killing a Giga has nothing to do with this player (more rationalization for being scummy).

The good news is that we, at any time, can choose not to be scummy human beings.

By the way I never really got wiped....I just watched a couple youtube videos of people getting offline raided and decided building a base as a solo player was untenable in this game.

And dude....it would not even be worth your time to try to find me if I were on your server.  I've been on an official small tribes for months now....still haven't been killed and lost only 1 trash Argy with some stone on it.  No one has found either of my two stashes.  You should have bigger fish to fry with transfers open on Val ;) 

Who said chinese?? We are an American \euro tribe of roughly 25 members....some play other games but will log in a second if needed...your logic that a video game has anything to do with real life is flawed bro...it's dominate  or be dominated. ...it's ark survive or die rule or be ruled.....these are your options. And u have no idea of how larger tribes work I believe...not all ofc but some like us. Smalltribes is cancer lol .flawed in so many ways...teaming is everywhere. And if I told one of our members that his job was to be that noob and be wiped he would do it 30 times .you know why?....because  that's why xD and yes it would be totally  worth my time .I mean it's what I love doing why wouldn't I lol..it's the Internet your opinion  is yours. Believe what you wish♡.♡ a mana killing the Giga was a example of how much ppl will do to protect  these things they have worked hard for is all .no hard feelings  bro;) play the game how you like if you wanna be the nice guy be that if u want to be a ruthless killer and kill solo players\anyone be that guy xD....

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3 hours ago, Lycan187u said:

Who said chinese?? We are an American \euro tribe of roughly 25 members....some play other games but will log in a second if needed...your logic that a video game has anything to do with real life is flawed bro...it's dominate  or be dominated. ...it's ark survive or die rule or be ruled.....these are your options. And u have no idea of how larger tribes work I believe...not all ofc but some like us. Smalltribes is cancer lol .flawed in so many ways...teaming is everywhere. And if I told one of our members that his job was to be that noob and be wiped he would do it 30 times .you know why?....because  that's why xD and yes it would be totally  worth my time .I mean it's what I love doing why wouldn't I lol..it's the Internet your opinion  is yours. Believe what you wish♡.♡ a mana killing the Giga was a example of how much ppl will do to protect  these things they have worked hard for is all .no hard feelings  bro;) play the game how you like if you wanna be the nice guy be that if u want to be a ruthless killer and kill solo players\anyone be that guy xD....

Although I agree Ark and real life do not have to be correlated I think you are lying to yourself if you do not realize that in many cases they are. My personal experience is that they usually are.  Running a single player solo out of the game and being proud is the definition of being a scumbag. Just because I can do something doesnt mean I should. And I never hear people bragging about taking down tribes 5x their size because this game is less about skill and more about time (or hacks).

FYI none of this is directed at any particular person but rather at Ark PVP.  Offline and offense only focused PVP is BS. And if you have offline it should either have 1000s on the server across multiple time zones (best example ever is DAOC in the early days) or PVP that doesnt result in the complete destruction of all of the effort of a player when they are not online.

In short bragging about foundation wiping offline players (or 5 manning 1 person) is the definiton of chicken@@@@ PVP. Unfortunately this is what PVP is to many both in Ark and in many games. After all most would rather bully than face the risk of losing a good fight. This has always been true even in the real world.

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On 1/29/2020 at 8:25 AM, shepheard said:

Wow I know this is an old post but just had to comment.

Forza I think you've read a Sun Tzu Art of War book and are investing too much into this game.  Your premise that this game requires total war in order to win is misplaced.  I don't think the definition of "winning" is even articulated anywhere so "winning" is really an ever changing definition in the eye of the beholder.  Your premise that you also have to adopt a "set in stone" philosophy is also misplaced and restricts your ability to assess each situation uniquely and conduct yourself according to the situation.  While all of the skills you mentioned are certainly applicable in this game as a whole....they are most certainly NOT applicable when applying it to your solo player scenario that your "particular philosophy" dictated to torment into quitting the game.

Even if we stipulate your philosophy is the only philosophy that can be applied to the game....you have really violated your own philosophy.  Your original mission was to "soften up the server" for your mega tribe to come in and finish the job.  Was tormenting this solo player really critical to your softening up strategy?  Could the time and resources you invested to raid this solo player over and over be put to better use against actual valuable targets in that server?  The questions are of course rhetorical  and speak for themselves.  An objective viewer can only surmise that your reasons for beating this solo player into submission are likely a combination that you 1....derive personal pleasure from conducting yourself this way (which I think most people can agree is pretty disgusting) and 2....you've read "The Art of War" way too many times and have some kind of emotional investment in putting those principles into practice in a game (possibly because applying "The Art of War" in a game is more palatable than whatever your real life situation is....but its of course impossible for me to know your motives for sure).

In summary....when we examine this not from the technical definition of what "PvP" means in Ark, but instead from a holistic real life viewpoint of human decency....most people would agree that what you did was un-necessary, not even really valuable to what your mission was, and just being a scummy human being in general.

I take it your a PVE player because in PVP on official servers you cannot afford to overlook anyone, even what appears to be a hermit in an isolated hut. Everyone is a threat, some are bigger then others but basically all other players are your enemies. This is something you come to realise through time and experience. 

For instance it is quite common for scouts from large tribes to try and blend in on their target server to avoid suspicion. Many a time have I mimicked the stereotypical PVE player ie full noob looking cosmetic base with friendly signs posted outside with stuff like "Welcome to Dave's Palace" written on them as well as a "community" hut outside with free stone tools in unlocked boxes and of course a daily stream of noob questions in global chat. It's incredibly effective and I've never once been suspected of anything but being some random noob. Sure you still get raided but they tend to be more gentle and you can then use the raid to curry sympathy with the other tribes on the server and use it as an entry ticket to joining their tribe.

As for our friend who was too stubborn for his own good, he was indeed a low level threat but the reasons why we kept attacking him are rather simple. I like to test player's resolve,  it's one of the best way to find reliable recruits and he looked quite promising especially from what we saw after the first raid. He was clearly determined not to give up until we took that decision out of his hands.

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