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Better Unofficial PvP Server Longevity?


Arkasaurio

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I made the full jump from official to unofficial a few months after Ark released. Honestly between access to good mods (s+), admins that respond generally in hours, and better overall community, the game is a LOT more to my liking on unofficial aside from one important thing... all unofficial PvP servers seem to have a seasonal wipe schedule, generally every 3-6 months, so there is no long term longevity.

Yes there are "no wipe" unofficial PvP servers out there, but over the last year I've seen every good one I've played on eventually announce a wipe and then move to a seasonal schedule. That, or the population dies off and even if the server still runs it's completely underpopulated. The process goes something like this from what I've seen:

1. Skilled server admin launches new "no-wipe" server, spreads word within their network, makes reddit posts, pays for some ads on Arkservers, etc.

2. Things are great for 3-6 months.

3. Some major controversy happens within the community. Actual cheating, allegations of cheating, hard griefers, allegations of griefing, well organized tribe enters and just starts stomping everyone else etc. etc.

4. Admin makes a decision and takes a course of action - regardless a large segment of the players are unhappy with that decision (no winning). Admin is accused of favoring one side, between controversy, possible banning of offenders, and friends of the offenders leaving, server population dwindles.

5. With Battlemetrics showing that played hours and number of unique players have just fallen off a cliff, and with several months run time, very few new players join the server. Population continues to dwindle.

6. Wipe is announced in order to present a fresh server to entice players to join OR server completely dies out.

7. Process starts all over again; this time admin may feel that going "no-wipe" is impossible and just start with the seasonal plan.

Note: All mention of servers above also applies to "cluster of servers" as most really solid unofficial servers are now in small clusters.

I would really really like to play a pvp server that doesn't get wiped without going back to official; persistence or the possibility of it has always been one of the most interesting things about Ark to me. However, I 100% understand the position that admins, even those who want to run no-wipe, are in. Seemingly, you wipe or your server dies, people always want that fresh start. Even RP servers are usually seasonal, and while I can understand it's probably fun to restart the story, I'd also think if there's one place where having servers build up long histories would be embraced it'd be there. At the same time, I feel like I can't be the only person that doesn't want to be forced to start over every 3-6 months (no matter how successful I am) without having to play officials.

Is there a solution? Am I the only weirdo that wants this, while everyone else playing unofficial PvP loves the seasonal thing? (btw, I'm playing reasonable rates stuff, I get why you wipe frequently with 75x) Does anyone have a good PC PvP server that fits the bill ??

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Our pvp server has a no wipe policy. We had one wipe in our history, and that was very recent. The only reason we wiped is because we had a ton of interest from new members and wanted to change our rule set. Myself, as the only tribe and full tek alpha of the server, and the server admin agreed to restart. Decided to fresh start ourselves and start the server with a no fly rule.

 

It was a one time deal.

 

If you want a no wipe unofficial cluster that is active, you can message me. We aren't allowed to "advertise" our servers outside the specific forum. I'm hoping this is on topic enough to not be seen as an "advertisement."

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1 hour ago, Aylana314159 said:

I don't play PvP, but I would think finding a PvP server/cluster run by admin(s) who don't actually play on their own servers. That way no admin abuse.

Appreciate the attempt, but most if not all of the servers I've tried the owner/admin didn't play there. Also, to be clear, NONE of the servers I'm talking about died because of true admin abuse. When there is controversy the admin has to do something, and with any controversial decision someone is going to feel like they got the raw end of the deal. Certainly there is real admin abuse out there, but admin abuse IS NOT any time the admin makes a decision that I don't agree with and is against my own personal best interest, however that is exactly how it seems like the majority of players see it. Any time a decision doesn't go their way spew toxicity in discord until getting banned, then go drop 5 negative reviews on ArkServers (or what have you) telling a one sided and often patently false narrative about how the server is so unfair and the admin favors his friends, etc.

Anyway, I don't think admin abuse has ever really been the problem, rather players don't seem to understand how game hosting and participating etiquette works.

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10 hours ago, Aylana314159 said:

I don't play PvP, but I would think finding a PvP server/cluster run by admin(s) who don't actually play on their own servers. That way no admin abuse.

Just because an admin plays on their own server doesnt mean there is admin abuse. If i played on my server as an admin i would play just like everyone has to. Generally those with admin abuse are probably mostly done by young kids running a server.

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Yes, fortunately servers that actually have legitimate cases of admin abuse don't tend to last very long.  Word spreads quickly when legitimate abuse exists.

Long term PVP servers do exist, like the one mentioned above... but I'd also like to point out one other reason why seasonal wipes are relatively common.  The reasons you thoughtfully listed are perfectly spot on, but there is also the issue of boredom.  Once things settle down on a server, and there really is no longer any real competition for the Alpha spot, people tend to get bored with the status quo after awhile.  The less powerful tribes begin to get a little frustrated at their inability to break the current alpha (even if all players involved are getting along great), and even the players in the Alpha tribe can get a little bored with the situation after a while.

In these cases even the Alpha tribe is asking for the server to be reset, just to make things exciting again.  Long term achievements have a certain appeal, but most PVP players are looking for their next conquest.  If there is little chance of a "next conquest" actually happening on that otherwise happy server, the temporary loss of some imaginary pixels is often considered a small price to pay to energize their gameplay experience again.

I only mention this because it's worth noting that even harmonious servers can have a seasonal schedule, and that it doesn't necessarily indicate that they are recovering from a trauma of some sort.  I think you know what I'm trying to say.

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9 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

Yes, fortunately servers that actually have legitimate cases of admin abuse don't tend to last very long.  Word spreads quickly when legitimate abuse exists.

Long term PVP servers do exist, like the one mentioned above... but I'd also like to point out one other reason why seasonal wipes are relatively common.  The reasons you thoughtfully listed are perfectly spot on, but there is also the issue of boredom.  Once things settle down on a server, and there really is no longer any real competition for the Alpha spot, people tend to get bored with the status quo after awhile.  The less powerful tribes begin to get a little frustrated at their inability to break the current alpha (even if all players involved are getting along great), and even the players in the Alpha tribe can get a little bored with the situation after a while.

In these cases even the Alpha tribe is asking for the server to be reset, just to make things exciting again.  Long term achievements have a certain appeal, but most PVP players are looking for their next conquest.  If there is little chance of a "next conquest" actually happening on that otherwise happy server, the temporary loss of some imaginary pixels is often considered a small price to pay to energize their gameplay experience again.

I only mention this because it's worth noting that even harmonious servers can have a seasonal schedule, and that it doesn't necessarily indicate that they are recovering from a trauma of some sort.  I think you know what I'm trying to say.

Really good point, and I get it. The rush of trying to climb to the top of the heap when everyone starting at the bottom is really fun, and certainly things can  get stale once the server/cluster has reached equilibrium. What I've seen though, is that this is frequently used as part of the justification for a wipe sometime after some issue that's caused a lot of players to stop playing, but there's still some thing/things that cause that initial player die off beyond bordem. It doesn't have to be a controversy either, could be as simple as the server hosting provider giving poop service causing crashes and rollbacks. Remember I am talking about declared "no wipe" servers.

But as I said that is a really good point and major part of the equation. However, for one I'd think there would be more than enough unofficial players looking for the experience I'm looking for to populate a cluster. Maybe there are and I haven't found them yet, I'll need to check out @RasFW's server for instance, but honestly with what I do for a living, I'm probably far better at finding things on the internet, than I ever will be at playing this game ? . Secondly I wonder if there are admin choices that could help mitigate that issue? I've thought for a while there could be something around partially wiping a cluster seasonally. Say there are 5 maps, you'd give your players warning 2 weeks ahead of time that 2 are wiping and after the wipe those severs has transfers disabled for 2 week. Gives new players a chance to build up, and is constantly giving existing players something new to fight over. If server population grows to support it, instead of wiping, just add more maps.

Before anyone feels the need to point out, "Why don't YOU go make your ideal no wipe cluster?" I would, in heartbeat, if I had the knowledge or time to acquire it. Also, there seems to be this trend already referenced of admins not playing on there own servers, so even if I made my ideal I probably couldn't play on it, lol.

Maybe I am...

20 hours ago, Arkasaurio said:

the only weirdo that wants this

 

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23 hours ago, Arkasaurio said:

hard griefers, allegations of griefing, well organized tribe enters and just starts stomping everyone else etc. etc.

This is why I never both with unofficial PVP servers anymore. They are just full of bad rules and admin abuse to the extreme. On the few I have tried my group ended up banned for one of the following reasons.

  • Your tribe is too good? You are bad for my server population. Banned.
  • Killed to many enemy dinos in a battle? Troll! Banned
  • Blew too many walls when raiding a base? Griefer! Banned
  • Go around killing other players? Toxic! Banned

In terms of longevity Ranger1 nailed it. If there is no active combat on a PVP server it becomes passive and thus PVE which is boring too most PVP players. On pretty much server that doesn't have tribe size limits you will see at some point a large dominant tribe form that few of the other tribes can hope to beat.

The result of this is that the smaller tribes now don't have a realistic chance to fight this large tribe so they take their best option which is to be friendly/ally with it. Once one tribe does this the others come under pressure to do the same for simple survival reasons. This effect continues on until all the major smaller tribes are in some kind of alliance with the alpha tribe. From this point on the server is basically a PVE zone and you could see this effect on many Official PVP servers before small tribes servers were created. 

These pacified servers become stale really fast as nothing exciting ever happens apart from the occasional cross server raider. Players on these servers just sit around farming, building, taming, breeding. Daily life becomes quite stale until something bad happens and what that normally is, is someone in the alpha tribe getting incredibly bored or someone infiltrating the alpha tribe.

I've been in a few of these large tribes and typically the tribe is really a mix of two kinds of players. There is the PVE player who joins the tribe for safety and just wants to build, breed, tame and then there is the PVP player who joined the tribe to do raids but is constantly feeling let down by the lack of action. I've been in this situation in pretty all 3 of the mega tribes tribe that I joined. In one of these mega tribes my group joined on the promise that we would see regular PVP and instead found ourselves doing little more then farming. Eventually having had enough of the boring daily routine we went "rogue" and started clandestinely attacking every server that we could allied or enemy using alt accounts. We had a list of servers we weren't allowed to attack and it amounted to about 50% of all PVP servers around 50+ servers which is ridiculous when you think about it being PVP servers and all. 

As well as the "rogue" PVP player megas also attract insiders who will try to disrupt and destroy the tribe. I've seen cases of  a player joining a mega and then one night drowning all their Giga's in the water, turning off the power and then having their rival attacking them to finish them off. In other cases it more subtle such as players stealing eggs to give to a rival tribe or stealing BPs and explosives. In one particular case I'm particular proud of one of my players joined an alpha tribe, worked his way up to admin rank over the course of 2 weeks and then took it over. When the owner went to sleep one night, he proceeded to demote every other online admin before removing them and everyone else from the tribe. He then unclaimed all the dinos to which my tribe quickly claimed and demolished the foundations of their base to completely erase them. In one swift move a tribe of 27 players was reduced to ashes.

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7 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

This is why I never both with unofficial PVP servers anymore. They are just full of bad rules and admin abuse to the extreme. On the few I have tried my group ended up banned for one of the following reasons.

  • Your tribe is too good? You are bad for my server population. Banned.
  • Killed to many enemy dinos in a battle? Troll! Banned
  • Blew too many walls when raiding a base? Griefer! Banned
  • Go around killing other players? Toxic! Banned

In terms of longevity Ranger1 nailed it. If there is no active combat on a PVP server it becomes passive and thus PVE which is boring too most PVP players. On pretty much server that doesn't have tribe size limits you will see at some point a large dominant tribe form that few of the other tribes can hope to beat.

The result of this is that the smaller tribes now don't have a realistic chance to fight this large tribe so they take their best option which is to be friendly/ally with it. Once one tribe does this the others come under pressure to do the same for simple survival reasons. This effect continues on until all the major smaller tribes are in some kind of alliance with the alpha tribe. From this point on the server is basically a PVE zone and you could see this effect on many Official PVP servers before small tribes servers were created. 

These pacified servers become stale really fast as nothing exciting ever happens apart from the occasional cross server raider. Players on these servers just sit around farming, building, taming, breeding. Daily life becomes quite stale until something bad happens and what that normally is, is someone in the alpha tribe getting incredibly bored or someone infiltrating the alpha tribe.

I've been in a few of these large tribes and typically the tribe is really a mix of two kinds of players. There is the PVE player who joins the tribe for safety and just wants to build, breed, tame and then there is the PVP player who joined the tribe to do raids but is constantly feeling let down by the lack of action. I've been in this situation in pretty all 3 of the mega tribes tribe that I joined. In one of these mega tribes my group joined on the promise that we would see regular PVP and instead found ourselves doing little more then farming. Eventually having had enough of the boring daily routine we went "rogue" and started clandestinely attacking every server that we could allied or enemy using alt accounts. We had a list of servers we weren't allowed to attack and it amounted to about 50% of all PVP servers around 50+ servers which is ridiculous when you think about it being PVP servers and all. 

As well as the "rogue" PVP player megas also attract insiders who will try to disrupt and destroy the tribe. I've seen cases of  a player joining a mega and then one night drowning all their Giga's in the water, turning off the power and then having their rival attacking them to finish them off. In other cases it more subtle such as players stealing eggs to give to a rival tribe or stealing BPs and explosives. In one particular case I'm particular proud of one of my players joined an alpha tribe, worked his way up to admin rank over the course of 2 weeks and then took it over. When the owner went to sleep one night, he proceeded to demote every other online admin before removing them and everyone else from the tribe. He then unclaimed all the dinos to which my tribe quickly claimed and demolished the foundations of their base to completely erase them. In one swift move a tribe of 27 players was reduced to ashes.

A lot of what you're saying here is absolutely true, but it largely applies to official servers. Sure there are alphas and alliance systems which does lead to stagnation, but the mega problem doesn't really exist on unofficial.

However your idea of admin abuse on unofficials is way different from mine. I've read enough of your posts on here to know you're a hardcore PvP player, and that's cool, probably the way you should be on official and definitely your prerogative to set your own play style. However a lot of folks play unofficial to still PvP but with fewer of the salted earth tactics employed on officials and admittedly a lot of folks are looking for something that plays a lot more like PvE. Bad rules are subjective though, your bad rule might be another's golden rule. Even poor admin decisions in your or my opinion don't constitute abuse, it just means the admin has a different view point. What does constitute abuse is continuous uneven enforcement of any rules in place to favor one group over the other, plus all sorts of crap that never happens any more on any server worth it's salt, like spawning in bunch of stuff for the admins tribe.

Anyway, I don't know you beyond your posts, but I've had bet a lot of money you don't love the unofficial scene ?

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3 minutes ago, Arkasaurio said:

A lot of what you're saying here is absolutely true, but it largely applies to official servers. Sure there are alphas and alliance systems which does lead to stagnation, but the mega problem doesn't really exist on unofficial.

However your idea of admin abuse on unofficials is way different from mine. I've read enough of your posts on here to know you're a hardcore PvP player, and that's cool, probably the way you should be on official and definitely your prerogative to set your own play style. However a lot of folks play unofficial to still PvP but with fewer of the salted earth tactics employed on officials and admittedly a lot of folks are looking for something that plays a lot more like PvE. Bad rules are subjective though, your bad rule might be another's golden rule. Even poor admin decisions in your or my opinion don't constitute abuse, it just means the admin has a different view point. What does constitute abuse is continuous uneven enforcement of any rules in place to favor one group over the other, plus all sorts of crap that never happens any more on any server worth it's salt, like spawning in bunch of stuff for the admins tribe.

Anyway, I don't know you beyond your posts, but I've had bet a lot of money you don't love the unofficial scene ?

Well I've tried various unofficial servers with my group over the years and the number problem we run into is always the same - abusive admins. You can follow every damn rule that server has and still be banned on a whim because your either too successful and the other tribes complain or you fall out with the admin and he just bans you.

On one server we played on we had the admin silently unlock all the doors to our base and remove the pins from our vaults one night and then conveniently the other tribe that we were fighting just happened to attack us on that very night. On another server we caught the admin giving his own tribe "gifts" ie spawning dinos and materials in and on a third server it mysteriously had Battle Eye disabled. We discovered why this was when we attacked the admin tribe...Yes the admin and his tribe were using aimbots, I couldn't believe it myself.

On the final server we played on we were outright banned merely for being too successful. It was one of those ridiculous high rate servers, I think it was set to 15x or so. We were on the server for about 2 weeks and had farmed up a lot explosives, as well as tamed a several tank dinos. The server itself was labelled PVP and had no rules other then don't cheat or exploit. It was one of those "community" type servers were everyone held hands more then they did fighting. So anyways we ended up levelling the bases of 7 tribes over the course of a few hours on one particular day. 

The next day I woke up and went to log in to check the base and it said I was banned. I went on their Discord channel and talked to the admin and he said we were bad for his server, that we were causing people to quit and therefore he had banned us. Basically we were banned for a business decision outside of the game. That was the final straw for us and since then I have stuck to officials.

The other issue with unofficial servers is poorly defined rules. I have lost count of the number of servers that have vague rules like

  • Don't cause excessive damage when raiding
  • Don't build closer then 200m to another base (how you measure that I do not know)
  • The ever generic "Don't grief"

Then there just dumb rules that everyone exploits such as:

  • Don't kill passive tames (I once saw a base that had put passive Parasaurs placed around their vaults) as well as tribes putting their best loot on these passive tames.
  • Max * Gigas per tribe. Everyone ended up making alt tribes to go around this.
  • Don't Kill On Sight
  • Don't use Brontos for tanking turrets.
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Guest DJRone89

@ForzaProiettile will turn up on every unofficial post and bash those who play it based on their own bad experiences, continuing the charade of bashing everyone who plays differently from them.

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18 hours ago, Arkasaurio said:

Really good point, and I get it. The rush of trying to climb to the top of the heap when everyone starting at the bottom is really fun, and certainly things can  get stale once the server/cluster has reached equilibrium. What I've seen though, is that this is frequently used as part of the justification for a wipe sometime after some issue that's caused a lot of players to stop playing, but there's still some thing/things that cause that initial player die off beyond bordem. It doesn't have to be a controversy either, could be as simple as the server hosting provider giving poop service causing crashes and rollbacks. Remember I am talking about declared "no wipe" servers.

But as I said that is a really good point and major part of the equation. However, for one I'd think there would be more than enough unofficial players looking for the experience I'm looking for to populate a cluster. Maybe there are and I haven't found them yet, I'll need to check out @RasFW's server for instance, but honestly with what I do for a living, I'm probably far better at finding things on the internet, than I ever will be at playing this game ? . Secondly I wonder if there are admin choices that could help mitigate that issue? I've thought for a while there could be something around partially wiping a cluster seasonally. Say there are 5 maps, you'd give your players warning 2 weeks ahead of time that 2 are wiping and after the wipe those severs has transfers disabled for 2 week. Gives new players a chance to build up, and is constantly giving existing players something new to fight over. If server population grows to support it, instead of wiping, just add more maps.

Before anyone feels the need to point out, "Why don't YOU go make your ideal no wipe cluster?" I would, in heartbeat, if I had the knowledge or time to acquire it. Also, there seems to be this trend already referenced of admins not playing on there own servers, so even if I made my ideal I probably couldn't play on it, lol.

Maybe I am...

 

Our server has been talking of a "rolling refresh" which is exactly that. If it gets stale, take the least used or oldest map and give it 2 weeks to be transferred off of. Then kill it and start a new map.

 

Sounds like we might be exactly what you're looking for lol

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12 hours ago, DJRone89 said:

@ForzaProiettile will turn up on every unofficial post and bash those who play it based on their own bad experiences, continuing the charade of bashing everyone who plays differently from them.

Lmao... their reputation proceeds them ?. Forza has some really good points at times, but with a bias so palpably strong gotta take everything they say with a grain of salt. Preferred pronoun would be helpful.

6 hours ago, Yster said:

the server i play on is also getting a refresh wipe this weekend. Oddly enough to see a post highlighting the exact issues were facing. .. or were playing on the same server. lol

I can't say I'm surprised, this or the server simply folding has happened to every no wipe server I've ever played on.

6 hours ago, RasFW said:

Our server has been talking of a "rolling refresh" which is exactly that. If it gets stale, take the least used or oldest map and give it 2 weeks to be transferred off of. Then kill it and start a new map.

 

Sounds like we might be exactly what you're looking for lol

Clearly like the way you think!  Will catch you on discord again.

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Guest DJRone89

I think it’s nigh on impossible for unofficial PvP servers to keep going without scheduled wipes.

Hosting can be like having a second job so the time and commitment you need to keep it populated can be very tiresome. It’s bad enough keeping people interested, let alone the whole recruitment process and people wonder why servers shut down. The hosts get tired and usually have very little support to keep them going on passion alone.

All of these contributing factors can lead servers to an early death, before the actions of a host can even have an impact on the longevity. Unless you can find a niche whilst still keeping your population afloat, with little effort, it’s wipe or die.

Questions I’d ask would be why people want to play unofficial PvP to begin with? Do they want the official lifestyle on a smaller scale, or do they prefer to just go through the motions of start to end game?

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4 minutes ago, DJRone89 said:

I think it’s nigh on impossible for unofficial PvP servers to keep going without scheduled wipes.

Hosting can be like having a second job so the time and commitment you need to keep it populated can be very tiresome. It’s bad enough keeping people interested, let alone the whole recruitment process and people wonder why servers shut down. The hosts get tired and usually have very little support to keep them going on passion alone.

All of these contributing factors can lead servers to an early death, before the actions of a host can even have an impact on the longevity. Unless you can find a niche whilst still keeping your population afloat, with little effort, it’s wipe or die.

Questions I’d ask would be why people want to play unofficial PvP to begin with? Do they want the official lifestyle on a smaller scale, or do they prefer to just go through the motions of start to end game?

Community is better on unofficial pvp. That's the short of it lol

 

I can build and progress and still have my wars. On official, I just feel like I'm farming mats for a bigger tribe or trollier troll to come raid and steal.

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1 hour ago, DJRone89 said:

I think it’s nigh on impossible for unofficial PvP servers to keep going without scheduled wipes.

Hosting can be like having a second job so the time and commitment you need to keep it populated can be very tiresome. It’s bad enough keeping people interested, let alone the whole recruitment process and people wonder why servers shut down. The hosts get tired and usually have very little support to keep them going on passion alone.

All of these contributing factors can lead servers to an early death, before the actions of a host can even have an impact on the longevity. Unless you can find a niche whilst still keeping your population afloat, with little effort, it’s wipe or die.

Questions I’d ask would be why people want to play unofficial PvP to begin with? Do they want the official lifestyle on a smaller scale, or do they prefer to just go through the motions of start to end game?

As @RasFW mentioned, the community tends to be way better.

However, for me the ideal is "As much like official as possible (reasonable rates, open PvP), with S+, and admins that can/will actually fix problems in short order." However I am willing to compromise heavily on the "like official" part to get S+ and active administration. Only things I'm really not game for are ORP (or extremely complicated anti-raiding rules), ludicrous rates, and well the whole reason for this thread, wipes every 3 months.

You might be right about it being impossible to maintain unofficial PvP without scheduled wipes, as that has certainly been my experience. Again though, it does seem odd to me at least, that there isn't a community of people that want that. I'm hoping either I simply haven't found it, or no one has quite figured out the right formula to make it work yet.

I also totally get you on the hosting being like a second job... Seriously, watching the admins field toxicity and whining all day about this that or the next thing, get on at all hours to trouble shoot things for people, then have to make a tough no-win decision that drives off half the player base that then goes on to spout more toxicity publicly to anyone who will listen, ALL FOR A SERVER THEY PAY FOR BUT DON'T EVEN PLAY ON, I'm honestly not sure how anyone does it. I also don't understand how shallow, ungrateful and immature people have to be to look at that situation and say the admin is "abusive," when something doesn't go exactly how they want it. So while I might be displeased with these clusters promising no wipe, then wiping anyway, I don't blame anyone and give a hearty thanks for the good times before moving on. I mentioned earlier if I could I'd create this myself, that's actually not true, I don't have the patience of an absolute saint to deal with that the kind of venom and insanity that server admins seem to have to deal with on a daily basis.

 

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Guest DJRone89
5 hours ago, Arkasaurio said:

As @RasFW mentioned, the community tends to be way better.

However, for me the ideal is "As much like official as possible (reasonable rates, open PvP), with S+, and admins that can/will actually fix problems in short order." However I am willing to compromise heavily on the "like official" part to get S+ and active administration. Only things I'm really not game for are ORP (or extremely complicated anti-raiding rules), ludicrous rates, and well the whole reason for this thread, wipes every 3 months.

You might be right about it being impossible to maintain unofficial PvP without scheduled wipes, as that has certainly been my experience. Again though, it does seem odd to me at least, that there isn't a community of people that want that. I'm hoping either I simply haven't found it, or no one has quite figured out the right formula to make it work yet.

I also totally get you on the hosting being like a second job... Seriously, watching the admins field toxicity and whining all day about this that or the next thing, get on at all hours to trouble shoot things for people, then have to make a tough no-win decision that drives off half the player base that then goes on to spout more toxicity publicly to anyone who will listen, ALL FOR A SERVER THEY PAY FOR BUT DON'T EVEN PLAY ON, I'm honestly not sure how anyone does it. I also don't understand how shallow, ungrateful and immature people have to be to look at that situation and say the admin is "abusive," when something doesn't go exactly how they want it. So while I might be displeased with these clusters promising no wipe, then wiping anyway, I don't blame anyone and give a hearty thanks for the good times before moving on. I mentioned earlier if I could I'd create this myself, that's actually not true, I don't have the patience of an absolute saint to deal with that the kind of venom and insanity that server admins seem to have to deal with on a daily basis.

 

I’ve hosted PvP in the past, I know what works for me and what doesn’t. I currently host a PvE with optional PvP server for friends but I’ve been looking to set up a strictly public PvP server for months - it’s just hard to find the right formula, as you’ve said.

I don’t get the whole, admins who don’t play on their own server malarkey so I’m assuming that’s a PC thing? Can’t afford to even consider that on console, and why would you? Paying up to $100 a month only to not play just in case someone has a problem with it? Anyone who has a problem with how I run things gets politely told to jog on lol

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10 hours ago, RasFW said:

Community is better on unofficial pvp. That's the short of it lol

 

I can build and progress and still have my wars. On official, I just feel like I'm farming mats for a bigger tribe or trollier troll to come raid and steal.

Community PVP ie everyone holding hands and no actual PVP

I see this argument a lot lately on here that there is no point playing on Officials servers because my base will be wiped and I will lose my progress. Well the part that your base will be wiped and your dinos slaughtered is absolutely true. That will happen more then once. I've been playing Officials since 2015 and I've been wiped in various forms more then 30 times.

The thing is though you have to play with this in mind. If I am in a small tribe and have a small base I won't go and tame a Bronto and then leave it outside my base because it can't fit inside. If I do that I'm testing my luck because any half decent player will see that Bronto outside and proceed to kill it. Instead it is far better to play relative to your tribe's strengths. A small tribe is a small tribe there is no point trying to emulate a tribe of 20 by building a giant base because you can't defend it. It is just a waste of time and effort.

To give an example I'm currently playing in a tribe of 3 on the Small Tribe Servers. Most us work full time so we don't have a lot of time to play currently with most of us only able to play a few hours a night. As a result our main base is tiny its a 2x2 metal hut in the middle of the jungle. We don't have any significant tames because we can't protect them. We use the occasional Raptor which we leave outside the base when we log. If they die they die its no real loss. I can log off at night and not be the least bit worried if we get raided because we really have nothing and the stuff we do have is well hidden away from the base itself.

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5 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

Community PVP ie everyone holding hands and no actual PVP

I see this argument a lot lately on here that there is no point playing on Officials servers because my base will be wiped and I will lose my progress. Well the part that your base will be wiped and your dinos slaughtered is absolutely true. That will happen more then once. I've been playing Officials since 2015 and I've been wiped in various forms more then 30 times.

The thing is though you have to play with this in mind. If I am in a small tribe and have a small base I won't go and tame a Bronto and then leave it outside my base because it can't fit inside. If I do that I'm testing my luck because any half decent player will see that Bronto outside and proceed to kill it. Instead it is far better to play relative to your tribe's strengths. A small tribe is a small tribe there is no point trying to emulate a tribe of 20 by building a giant base because you can't defend it. It is just a waste of time and effort.

To give an example I'm currently playing in a tribe of 3 on the Small Tribe Servers. Most us work full time so we don't have a lot of time to play currently with most of us only able to play a few hours a night. As a result our main base is tiny its a 2x2 metal hut in the middle of the jungle. We don't have any significant tames because we can't protect them. We use the occasional Raptor which we leave outside the base when we log. If they die they die its no real loss. I can log off at night and not be the least bit worried if we get raided because we really have nothing and the stuff we do have is well hidden away from the base itself.

I stopped reading at your first sentence. Nobody holds hands here. My tribe is involved in 2 wars right now and I can count several other wars I know between other tribes.

 

On unofficial, we have no aimbotters, dupers, undermeshers, ESP or INI hackers, or any other shady people. That is the first point I want to make about our community being better. 

The second point, our admin is fair and plays as much as everyone else. He declares no rules on the server, outside cheating, exploiting and hacking. Having an active admin around to remove cheaters, pick you up out of terrain float traps (we all know those glitch spots) and fix game bugs is absolutely worth the smaller population.

The third point, I'm here at work. My whole tribe is offline. Even though I'm actively involved in 2 wars, and they are online, I have no fear that they are going to offline raid and wipe my base. Again, this is not a "rule" of the server. The community feels that offline raiding is a "raptor" move, so we just simply don't do it. We are here for PvP, and we dont intepret that as "Player vs Passives".

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2 hours ago, RasFW said:

I stopped reading at your first sentence. Nobody holds hands here. My tribe is involved in 2 wars right now and I can count several other wars I know between other tribes.

 

On unofficial, we have no aimbotters, dupers, undermeshers, ESP or INI hackers, or any other shady people. That is the first point I want to make about our community being better. 

The second point, our admin is fair and plays as much as everyone else. He declares no rules on the server, outside cheating, exploiting and hacking. Having an active admin around to remove cheaters, pick you up out of terrain float traps (we all know those glitch spots) and fix game bugs is absolutely worth the smaller population.

The third point, I'm here at work. My whole tribe is offline. Even though I'm actively involved in 2 wars, and they are online, I have no fear that they are going to offline raid and wipe my base. Again, this is not a "rule" of the server. The community feels that offline raiding is a "raptor" move, so we just simply don't do it. We are here for PvP, and we dont intepret that as "Player vs Passives".

Doesn’t matter what response you give to a person that refuses to listen to anyone else but themselves.

We all know the main draw to unofficials is the expansive customisation over anything else. Doesn’t matter if you PvP the exact same way as official because it’s the fact that you’re choosing unofficial in the first place that gets people with a bias backs up.

”Oh you’re playing unofficial? Well you must be playing with rules because I’m a fool who doesn’t know any better”.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/3/2018 at 4:04 PM, Arkasaurio said:

I made the full jump from official to unofficial a few months after Ark released. Honestly between access to good mods (s+), admins that respond generally in hours, and better overall community, the game is a LOT more to my liking on unofficial aside from one important thing... all unofficial PvP servers seem to have a seasonal wipe schedule, generally every 3-6 months, so there is no long term longevity.

Yes there are "no wipe" unofficial PvP servers out there, but over the last year I've seen every good one I've played on eventually announce a wipe and then move to a seasonal schedule. That, or the population dies off and even if the server still runs it's completely underpopulated. The process goes something like this from what I've seen:

1. Skilled server admin launches new "no-wipe" server, spreads word within their network, makes reddit posts, pays for some ads on Arkservers, etc.

2. Things are great for 3-6 months.

3. Some major controversy happens within the community. Actual cheating, allegations of cheating, hard griefers, allegations of griefing, well organized tribe enters and just starts stomping everyone else etc. etc.

4. Admin makes a decision and takes a course of action - regardless a large segment of the players are unhappy with that decision (no winning). Admin is accused of favoring one side, between controversy, possible banning of offenders, and friends of the offenders leaving, server population dwindles.

5. With Battlemetrics showing that played hours and number of unique players have just fallen off a cliff, and with several months run time, very few new players join the server. Population continues to dwindle.

6. Wipe is announced in order to present a fresh server to entice players to join OR server completely dies out.

7. Process starts all over again; this time admin may feel that going "no-wipe" is impossible and just start with the seasonal plan.

Note: All mention of servers above also applies to "cluster of servers" as most really solid unofficial servers are now in small clusters.

I would really really like to play a pvp server that doesn't get wiped without going back to official; persistence or the possibility of it has always been one of the most interesting things about Ark to me. However, I 100% understand the position that admins, even those who want to run no-wipe, are in. Seemingly, you wipe or your server dies, people always want that fresh start. Even RP servers are usually seasonal, and while I can understand it's probably fun to restart the story, I'd also think if there's one place where having servers build up long histories would be embraced it'd be there. At the same time, I feel like I can't be the only person that doesn't want to be forced to start over every 3-6 months (no matter how successful I am) without having to play officials.

Is there a solution? Am I the only weirdo that wants this, while everyone else playing unofficial PvP loves the seasonal thing? (btw, I'm playing reasonable rates stuff, I get why you wipe frequently with 75x) Does anyone have a good PC PvP server that fits the bill ??

It's relieving to know other players of this great game are against scheduled wipes. I started playing on a former co-worker's unofficial server and as soon as anyone got to a full stone base with a few turrets and some utility dinos he would wipe. No warning, you would just log in the next day and restart. I eventually quit playing with him. Personally, just like in real life, in game  I like to progress. There is so much to do in Ark which makes me double take the majority of players who say they're quitting due to boredom because they feel like they have done everything when in fact they haven't. Sorry, that was a little off topic. 

Wipe schedules- From what I've seen this could only be beneficial to the servers where rates are what I call stupid boosted 50x all and higher, auto engrams, tek drops or what I like to call the Bernie Sanders servers. Those have negative impact on server performance in a short time. If you have a single rate, such as breeding (bc honestly that takes way too long on default settings and I don't have 85% of my life reserved to raise an AI pet) that is a little high then fine. It won't affect server performance that much if you have just 1 setting like that. 

The frustration of losing everything you worked for when you have so much more to accomplish just because an admin thinks it's time to restart is the exact reason I started my own server cluster (PS4). I have some of my rates slightly higher than official to ease the grind a bit but you still actually have to work for things. My main rates are 8x taming, 5x harvest & 3x xp so while alleviating the harsh grind of official you still have to work to get things. Its all relative though- someone who is use to and loves playing official rates and has all the time in the world will say my rates are jacked. To each his own, can't please everybody. The grind and challenges of the game is what makes it a survival game. To take it away competely with rates so high you can barely move (because youre getting 5 to 10 level ups every third step you take) it becomes a thriving game and you might as well play single player and command everything in. 

I hate having to start over. One argument could be "what about making it a level playing field for new players". I can't count how many times I have heard that one. We all have been new and we all have had the challenge of becoming the "not so new anymore player" whether on official or unofficial. So, what? Is the expectation for all servers to wipe just because someone bought and installed the game an hr ago? That's just dumb.

Regardless of what conflicts may arise between players on my servers I'm not wiping them. I allow my servers communities to govern themselves. My job as admin is to ensure the smooth running of the servers. I'm in this for the long haul so my community can grow and progress for years as opposed to only a few weeks or months. 

As for the people commenting about admin abuse and wanting a server where the admin doesn't play on their own server. Would you pay $600/mo for a car in your name for a complete stranger to drive? Think about that. As an active admin that doesn't abuse his players & loves this game I will not pay over $100/mo for a cluster and not play on it. Just not gonna happen. And if you believe every server that says no admin that the admin or owner doesn't play, more than likely they are hiding behind another name on the server. I'm very transparent with the community on my cluster. They all know who I am, that I play and where my base is which is away from where the majority of players go. I actually tell them the coords so they can avoid it altogether. My players have seen me struggle and die trying to knock out and tame dinos on the map. They also know they will never be raided or killed by me as I don't engage in PvP. Hell, I was out flying the other day and someone thought I was an enemy and picked me and dropped me and killed me. I just global chatted "well that hurt" to which they responded they didn't know it was me. We just laughed it off. So 1, I'm killable & 2 I don't engage. The reason is simple. Even say I am killable and I do raid someone. As admin if I ever win, even if it's legit and their tribe log shows I died to their turrets, automatic accusation of admin abuse. And thats something I dont want because I dont do it. So really as an admin IMO it's best to stick to doing your own thing. The community will see that over time and develop trust with you and it's like a mutual peace between you and your players. So to say admins shouldn't play on their own servers, especially ones that pay for it themselves is ridiculous & I believe wishful thinking. In your search of such a server have you ever thought of  just paying for you own and then not playing on it? Didn't think so. If a PvP server then the admin shouldn't engage it's players but I'll never say to any admin that they shouldn't play on their own server. 

So yeah, scheduled wipes suck and are for the birds. 

 

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It is weird watching this thread. The unofficial servers are just that unofficial, But not only that they are privately ran they are sometimes open to the public. In game Admining and  backend Admining are both really demanding tasks. It is not easy to balance fair gameplay when you only have a few hours to play for yourself. @Arkasaurio I have listed some reasons that your want for a server is unrealistic. My suggestion is find a group that will manage the backend of server that you rent if you want your rules.  Good Luck !!!

1} The best comparison is that admins that Own/Rent servers are the Dungeon Masters or Gods for their servers (No such thing as admin abuse when you own the server and make the rules).
2} Modded servers are hard to keep stable over long term (mod updates, incompatibilities over time, or discontinuation of mods) as well as the Owners or core players on the server often get bored thus the wipe the server.
3} A single cut throat PVP player on a laid back server can kill a community of players that took months to build up.
4} Sever owner burnout. Not enough time to play or have a life. 

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  • 8 months later...
On 7/3/2018 at 9:52 PM, RasFW said:

Our pvp server has a no wipe policy. We had one wipe in our history, and that was very recent. The only reason we wiped is because we had a ton of interest from new members and wanted to change our rule set. Myself, as the only tribe and full tek alpha of the server, and the server admin agreed to restart. Decided to fresh start ourselves and start the server with a no fly rule.

 

It was a one time deal.

 

If you want a no wipe unofficial cluster that is active, you can message me. We aren't allowed to "advertise" our servers outside the specific forum. I'm hoping this is on topic enough to not be seen as an "advertisement."

I literally just made an account on here, have spent the past 10 mins trying to find a message button on your profile, with no luck. If the server is still up would you mind adding me on steam as I have a couple of questions but I don’t want to get you in trouble ?

https://steamcommunity.com/id/chaos_piggyplayz

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