Unridden Megatherium vs alpha BM, unexpected results

[jcekstro]

So, my tribemate and I have been farming alpha BM for a while now. We had been using a set of rexes that were around 12k health and 441% melee base. After leveling them up to 35k health and ~ 600% melee on average, we have successfully completed every single broodmother run we have done with them. We have had a few die here and there when they acted a little derpy with the whistles or surrounding the boss, but all runs were successful. However, they were VERY low on health most of the time coming out of there. I didn't like how close we were cutting it. I set out to make it easier on us.

After reading a lot, I decided to take people's advice and work on megatherium. I traded for some that were mid-decent ranged. Not the top overall on the forums by any means, but they were serviceable. We bred those and leveled them up to 20k health and ~600% melee. In the mean-time I rode my bred one in an alpha BM fight that seemed to go fairly smooth. I also bought the top megas currently on the trade forums (50 points melee and health) and was getting ready to breed those up. Having purchased those already, I figured it was fair game to use all the decent megas I had bred and ready to go from the first trade. I took 4 megas in that were all right at 20k health and ~600% melee. Each had a 90+ saddle on it. The three that weren't ridden by us died within the first 25% of the fight. I mean, just decimated. We barely got out of that fight with the rexes and last megatherium on very low health.

Here is where I get the interesting results:  I decided to test out people's theory's using megatherium in BM and how good they really were. We started a single player and spawned in 19 megatherium at lvl 300. We leveled them to 28k health and all were between 600-700% melee. Same exact thing happened as in the previous fight. Within the first 25% of the bosses health we had several dead megatherium and a wipe ensued. Maybe with a few daedon and some heavy healing being pumped out they could make it, but I am convinced that megatherium are NOT capable of doing the fight unridden. 

Further interesting results: We then wanted to test and see actual dmg output. Note: I am completely aware that this is going to be a conversation on just straight damage dealt and NOT dps, which means it's not a complete apples to apples comparison, but that's not what I was looking at. We killed off all but one megatherium. We then spawned in one rex and leveled it to 35k health and 650% melee. We also spawned in one megalosaurus and leveled it to 28k health and 650% melee. We got them fully buffed up by the yuty (and in the megatherium's case by killing a small spider as well) and got the following results against the boss: Megalosaurus-roughly 640 dmg per hit, Megatherium-roughly 570 dmg per hit, Rex roughly 550 dmg per hit. Now, I will say that the megatherium seemed to have a boost against he araneo as it was doing over 900 dmg per hit to each of the spiders which was significantly higher than the other two. 

So in conclusion, if you are limited to one or two people only,  based on all testing I have done and the boss runs I have done in the past several months, it is still best to take at least 18 rex into BM as well as a yuty. If you have more people, the fights might work better for different combos. If you have a second person, have them ride a megalosaurus if it is a night for best dps, or a megatherium at day or if you don't have a megalosaurus available. The megatherium will clean the trash much better than the rexes will and do slightly better dmg to the boss while being ridden it seems, but would not have a significant advantage in terms of damage unridden, and the rex has a significant advantage in terms of tankiness. The one caveat I did find in all this was it is extremely difficult to do the whistling as a rider of a megalosaurus or megatherium in a sea of rexes. If that is the setup you use (which is what we will be using going forward) have the person on the yuty do the whistling. it will work much better. If you have a person riding a rex, they are probably the best to do the whistling in general though.

 

TL;DR: Megatherium are NOT very well suited for boss fights unless being ridden. Megalosaurus were better than expected. Rex is still king.

 

edit: changed title due to misunderstandings. This thread is NOT about my rex stats or really anything to do with rexes. Just using them as a comparison because that is what we currently use.

Another edit for people not reading: This is 100% about small tribes (1-3 people) that can't bring more to boss fights. If you ride all your dinos in the boss fights, there is absolutely no need to post here. You are just derailing a conversation with bad advice for people that won't be able to utilize it. I know riding megatheriums works. I have said that many times. This is about unridden dinos.

[hazy420]

well, thanks for the testing and information, saving other people from having to do the same. seems the rex army lives on

[Weiss]

Did you test the dmg with mate boosted dinos? A single megalo or megatherium would probably still do less dmg than a mate boosted rex.

Did you put cakes on the megatheriums?

 

 

[yekrucifixion187]

2 hours ago, Weiss said:

Did you put cakes on the megatheriums?

Megatheriums are omnivores, do they get the cake heal? I thought that was strictly for herbivores. 

[Weiss]

1 minute ago, yekrucifixion187 said:

Megatheriums are omnivores, do they get the cake heal? I thought that was strictly for herbivores. 

I only own one, I just though since they eat berries they'd eat cake too

[shiny]

They do eat it automatically when low on hp. 

[Paroxyde]

The problem is your rexes. I run 25k hp 1000% melee (from 11k/414% eggs) and they at most lose 10% of that exept the 2-3 in the front that loses about 6-70% of their hp... You put too much in hp and too little in melee which leads to prolonged fights that are more prone to accidents. Your rexes were dead weight to the megatherium that were more glass canon profiled. It hinges on killing it faster than it could kill them, but you brought low dps, tanky rexes... Of course they are gonna die. 

Megalosaurus have the quirk of trying to grab dinos when unridden, which obviously doesn't work on the boss and do 0 damage. This is why people seldom use them unridden. 

[jcekstro]

2 hours ago, Paroxyde said:

The problem is your rexes. I run 25k hp 1000% melee (from 11k/414% eggs) and they at most lose 10% of that exept the 2-3 in the front that loses about 6-70% of their hp... You put too much in hp and too little in melee which leads to prolonged fights that are more prone to accidents. Your rexes were dead weight to the megatherium that were more glass canon profiled. It hinges on killing it faster than it could kill them, but you brought low dps, tanky rexes... Of course they are gonna die. 

Megalosaurus have the quirk of trying to grab dinos when unridden, which obviously doesn't work on the boss and do 0 damage. This is why people seldom use them unridden. 

Then how do you explain the 19 megas all dying?? I will test with higher melee rexes but this thread wasn't even about rexes. Our rexes do just fine. I wanted to make it go even smoother, but alas, that is not possible it seems. 

 

As for other questions, no, the mega dmg wasnt mate boosted, but neither was the megalasaur or rex so still a decent comparison. Also, we tested veggie cakes, omnivores can eat but don't get any health from the.

 

Again, this was a thread comparing megas to other Dino's. I do NOT need advice on how to do the fight with rexes. That's not what this was about. 

 

Edit: on a re-read I'm convinced the poster that I quoted didn't actually read my post. I am just going to ignore that comment. If anyone wants to discuss megatherium strategies or anything, I'm all ears, but if 19 megas die very quickly to broodmother I'm not in any way convinced they are useful for the fight. The further testing I did backed up my assumption.

[Paroxyde]

13 hours ago, jcekstro said:

We barely got out of that fight with the rexes and last megatherium on very low health.

Ow, and how do you interpret that sentence beside: I brought 4 megas, 15 rexes and a yuti, but got out with 1 mega and my rexes low?

The problem with Megatherium is that each mega needs to individually lands the killing blow on a spider for the buff to take effect, which is a pain to do with splitting all the mega in 10 groups with the whistle all on brood mother, then use the group whistle to try to get the buff on all of them while you buff them with yuti. Attack this target is the whistle people go by (not my target, this target, the one with the arrow).

[arrojado1200]

24 minutes ago, jcekstro said:

Then how do you explain the 19 megas all dying?? I will test with higher melee rexes but this thread wasn't even about rexes. Our rexes do just fine. I wanted to make it go even smoother, but alas, that is not possible it seems. 

 

As for other questions, no, the mega dmg wasnt mate boosted, but neither was the megalasaur or rex so still a decent comparison. Also, we tested veggie cakes, omnivores can eat but don't get any health from the.

 

Again, this was a thread comparing megas to other Dino's. I do NOT need advice on how to do the fight with rexes. That's not what this was about. 

 

Edit: on a re-read I'm convinced the poster that I quoted didn't actually read my post. I am just going to ignore that comment. If anyone wants to discuss megatherium strategies or anything, I'm all ears, but if 19 megas die very quickly to broodmother I'm not in any way convinced they are useful for the fight. The further testing I did backed up my assumption.

The title of your post is unfortunate. I should have been setting the Megatherium. Not even that you did. That's why people think you want to compare Megatherium with Rex. Next time, be more specific.

But, taking that fact, your analysis is perfect. I agree with what you wrote, because I did the same test. Megatherium are good to face BM up to Beta level. Alpha is already very difficult.

[jcekstro]

3 hours ago, arrojado1200 said:

The title of your post is unfortunate. I should have been setting the Megatherium. Not even that you did. That's why people think you want to compare Megatherium with Rex. Next time, be more specific.

But, taking that fact, your analysis is perfect. I agree with what you wrote, because I did the same test. Megatherium are good to face BM up to Beta level. Alpha is already very difficult.

I really don't know what you mean but fair enough. I used the title, because the results were not what I expected. That is also why I underlined and highlighted the portion that says "here is where the interesting results are," to point people that don't want to read the whole thing to the section that they want to read. The first two paragraphs were an explanation on why I thought a test was needed. I have been seeing a LOT of misinformation about megatherium on here and plenty of people saying they are viable. From my testing, I can't see any instance where they are viable, except if all are being ridden. That is the "interesting" part that I wanted to discuss. My rex stats shouldn't even be in consideration here with the exception of damage done on the boss vs. damage done on boss by megatherium/megalosaurus. 

 

And again, for anyone that has trouble understanding there was a TL;DR summary at the bottom explaining my results. Honestly, I'm kind of surprised anyone took this thread the wrong way. 

[Demerus]

3 minutes ago, jcekstro said:

And again, for anyone that has trouble understanding there was a TL;DR summary at the bottom explaining my results. Honestly, I'm kind of surprised anyone took this thread the wrong way. 

I am very offended by your post and I will proceed to my safe space to roll myself in bubble wrap.

Thanks!

[jpcab]

6 or 7 megatherius plus a yutie is enough to beat alfa BM..megatherium have to have the buff. ..kill spiders..use right atack button always. Thats it..easy like a walk on the park

[jcekstro]

2 hours ago, jpcab said:

6 or 7 megatherius plus a yutie is enough to beat alfa BM..megatherium have to have the buff. ..kill spiders..use right atack button always. Thats it..easy like a walk on the park

I tested it with 19 megas. I can't confirm that all had the buff, but judging by the text of spiders being killed, several did. Again, all 19 died and most within the first minute of the fight. I have to question your statement in general to be honest. When was the last time you tried this fight with megas? Also, all ridden? Or just one ridden like I tested and said many many times.

[jpcab]

I play oficial pvp when i say 6 or 7 megas are rided dinos. .did that boss times and times over

[jcekstro]

55 minutes ago, jpcab said:

I play oficial pvp when i say 6 or 7 megas are rided dinos. .did that boss times and times over

I was specifically talking about when you only have a couple people. I said many times in the post that the ridden dino did fare much better and commented multiple times how this is specifically about non-ridden dinos. A lot of people are saying it is possible with megatherium even for smaller tribes (1-3 people). All my test results were based on two people. However, check out the damage numbers. I honestly don't see much of an improvement for the megatherium. The only thing they are very good at was the trash. They got some kind of damage boosts against the araneos, jumping their damage per hit on those up over 900 compared to the rex in the mid 500's, but against the actual boss, very close in terms of damage per hit. And before you ask, I detail it in my post and yes, the mega in question was boosted from killing a spider and had full yuty boost as well. The rex had full yuty boost. Neither was mate boosted. Might do you just as well to use one megatherium against the trash and use rexes against the boss, but with that many riders, just about any combination would work.

 

TL;DR, this post was geared towards small tribes (1-3 people). Of course a big tribe riding all their dinos kill BM easily. That's not what I was saying.

[Paroxyde]

Have you tried with 14 sloths instead of 19?

I find that's easier with 14 rexes+1yuti than 19... Maybe it scales? Or maybe they block each other and end up less efficient?

Anyway, getting 10 people makes all the bosses much easier anyway, you get close to twice the dps per dino ridden because of how unridden dinos bites only once a while compared to the spam click of a player. 

[jcekstro]

4 minutes ago, Paroxyde said:

Have you tried with 14 sloths instead of 19?

I find that's easier with 14 rexes+1yuti than 19... Maybe it scales? Or maybe they block each other and end up less efficient?

Anyway, getting 10 people makes all the bosses much easier anyway, you get close to twice the dps per dino ridden because of how unridden dinos bites only once a while compared to the spam click of a player. 

Weird. I will test that tonight to see, but nope havent done that. I tested only with 19 sloths and was amazed how quickly they died. And of course getting more people makes the bosses go easier, but alas, that is not always an option. This whole thread was aimed at people like me who only have 1-2 available for boss fights and really no prospects of getting more in there. I will try with the higher melee rexes as well, but again, was just going off what a bunch of people in the threads are saying. I have to think that they were all ridden megas they were discussing even though they said clearly that wasn't the case, I just don't see how it's possible. the mega did very little extra damage to the boss than a rex does. Just don't see how it's possible without riding them all and getting that extra imprint and ridden dmg bonus.

[jcekstro]

4 hours ago, Paroxyde said:

Have you tried with 14 sloths instead of 19?

I find that's easier with 14 rexes+1yuti than 19... Maybe it scales? Or maybe they block each other and end up less efficient?

Anyway, getting 10 people makes all the bosses much easier anyway, you get close to twice the dps per dino ridden because of how unridden dinos bites only once a while compared to the spam click of a player. 

So, I just tested the 1000% rexes and you are definitely right. That is the way to go. I'm still convinced of my findings that megatheriums are worthless unless ridden, but will fully agree that higher melee rexes over health is the way to go for broodmother. 

[arrojado1200]

16 hours ago, jcekstro said:

I really don't know what you mean but fair enough. I used the title, because the results were not what I expected. That is also why I underlined and highlighted the portion that says "here is where the interesting results are," to point people that don't want to read the whole thing to the section that they want to read. The first two paragraphs were an explanation on why I thought a test was needed. I have been seeing a LOT of misinformation about megatherium on here and plenty of people saying they are viable. From my testing, I can't see any instance where they are viable, except if all are being ridden. That is the "interesting" part that I wanted to discuss. My rex stats shouldn't even be in consideration here with the exception of damage done on the boss vs. damage done on boss by megatherium/megalosaurus. 

 

And again, for anyone that has trouble understanding there was a TL;DR summary at the bottom explaining my results. Honestly, I'm kind of surprised anyone took this thread the wrong way. 

I understood your post, and I even agreed with you, because I did the same tests. Megatherium is good for BM difficulty Gamma and Beta. Alpha is ridiculously hard to use only Megatherium.

What was not understood for others, is that their goal was not to compare with Rex.

But I consider your post very useful.

AAAA ... I saw that you changed the title of the post. Nice .

[JustUseless]

we do alpha bm only with megatheriums, ours have 381 hatch meele and 7,6k hp hatch, then we lvl up to 15k hp and rest only meele, and then u can fight bm alpha with  only 5 megatheriums in under 5 minuites. each fight we lose 3-5k hp. so all fine

[TrainingTarget]

Thanks for sharing your findings, good thing to keep in mind for when i'll be able to do the boss.

[jcekstro]

5 hours ago, JustUseless said:

we do alpha bm only with megatheriums, ours have 381 hatch meele and 7,6k hp hatch, then we lvl up to 15k hp and rest only meele, and then u can fight bm alpha with  only 5 megatheriums in under 5 minuites. each fight we lose 3-5k hp. so all fine

Again, not reading. This IS NOT about if you have enough people to ride the damn things. I really don't know how to say this enough. Every single time I've mentioned them I've said unridden. Every time I've said something I've said small tribes that can't ride them. Again, OF COURSE THEY WORK IF YOU CAN RIDE THEM ABOUT ANY DINO WOULD. that's not what this post was about. 

[Paroxyde]

Well, we used to be able to bring Paracer with minigun turrets... It was back then when you could still put a spike skirt to it so that the spawns don't bother it. And you just shot thousands of bullets at it... Pretty sure 2-3 people was enough. Though, there was no gamma/beta/alpha, but it was harder than alpha back then, at least it felt like it. 

[jcekstro]

18 minutes ago, Paroxyde said:

Well, we used to be able to bring Paracer with minigun turrets... It was back then when you could still put a spike skirt to it so that the spawns don't bother it. And you just shot thousands of bullets at it... Pretty sure 2-3 people was enough. Though, there was no gamma/beta/alpha, but it was harder than alpha back then, at least it felt like it. 

Yeah I never got to the bosses in legacy. Always seemed so far off I didn't even try. This go around we still waited far too long to start them, but once we got a few boss rex eggs and bred them up and tried it, we realized they weren't too hard after all. Just looking to optimize now. From all the testing it looks like you have the best strategy for small tribes with the 1000% melee 25k rexes. The megas are great when ridden, but terrible unridden. The megalosaurs are the best damage against the boss while ridden, but absolutely have to be ridden and it has to be night.