Changes To Structure Decay Rules

[Demerus]

@Jatheish @Jen @Eli @Chris

If you want to do this change right, make sure to block building on or near resource nodes and dinos spawns like spinos, beavers, etc. This is one of the biggest uses for pillars in PVE and the last line of defense we have against griefers and other players in general. Back on legacy every single beaver spawn on my island server was built on and blocked so nobody was able to tame them or farm the dams.

Its not about claiming land, its about protecting resources/dino spawns from other ignorant players who don't know better (intended or not). Pillaring important locations is allowing access to everyone in the server to farm what they need in those areas without fear of randoms closing it off or erasing the nodes completely. Things like Spino sails are very important for boss battles and progression. Highly dino spawn areas for meat runs for raising babies, dense bushed areas for berries, etc. 5 of my neighbor tribes on my server use 1 area for meat runs we have pillared off to prevent anyone from building on or near it to preserve the spawn volume and makes farming meat less of a chore than it already is. That security will be gone soon with these changes.
Sanctuary no build zones need to desperately be considered and thoroughly implemented.

I and many other players would consider these pretty important additions to consider: Things like preventing building on and blocking resources causing them not to respawn. Also what about completely encasing resources like walling off crystal caves, Wyvern cave on Rag or boxing in Charge nodes for example? In PVP its easy just toss some C4 down and job is done. Consider the PVE aspect for a second, we need to police our own servers to an extent by pillaring key areas because we are left with no other choice. So now I ask, where are these mentioned in the code of conduct? Its not just negative effects of pillaring, there are also positive and productive uses which will soon be stripped away. Please make the nodes block structure placement.

What are other's thoughts on these upcoming changes and how they will effect us as players? Feel free to chime in.

 

[Caerbannog]

What's the security bubble going to be around buildings now?  Because if it's left as is, with the new changes, somebody can come,  put a tiny little base right up against my doors, and I can't expand anymore.  I don't like to use dino gates, especially not on aberration where mobility is a thing, but am I going to have to claim my base-stead now with dino gates and block off a huge base area like that?  And what happens when I get reported then for blocking off major thoroughfares just because I wanted to make sure I had room to expand if I tame more dinos?

What about charge nodes?  Now people will be able to build on charge nodes without any real way of keeping them open to the community.  On the aberration server I left, half the charge nodes were boxed in by one single tribe, with locked doors, and the GM's wouldn't do a damned thing about it.

All you're going to see now is people building 1x1 spawnboxes everywhere, and behemoth gates for days.   This does nothing to solve the Tragedy of the Commons problem, and only opens up PVE to a whole new style of griefing.   "Hi, I like your base location.  I'm going to build there too, right next to you!  You like REALLY close neighbors, don't you?"

 

I get that you have an inherent problem with pillars.  I get that.  I know it sucks to be a new player trying to move in, and I know that pillar abuse is a thing.  But this is a very slippery slope we're sliding down, and if this was the route you were going to go, you should have done it in legacy.

[phantom55]

this changes may cause issues more then solving current problems.pillaring is only way to protect common use areas and bases  without blocking resources spawns.

now people will build more structures what will block resources and spawns.

 

[mikeraleigh]

It's a tough problem with no easy answer.  I recently moved back to PvE Official and man, I didn't miss the pillars everywhere.  I totally get keeping resources un-built upon but there has to be a better way.  Unfortunately the nature of PvE makes it very difficult to "police yourselves" as far as people building on resource areas.  Other than kiting, there's not much you can do. 

Maybe if there was a footprint limit, and every different structure has a predefined footprint.  So you could assign a pillar a footprint of 20 square yards (or whatever.)  So yes, you could pillar a metal node but you're probably not going to pillar a random area because you MIGHT need it someday. 

Part of me also thinks that getting rid of the pillaring system would be good.  It's almost like capitalism.  You're going to have the "have's" and the "have-not's."  That's life unfortunately.  If you want what the "mogul" of the server is blocking off, you're going to have to pay.  Adds a different aspect to the game, not a terribly fun aspect to a lot of people, but a SURVIVAL aspect for sure.  Let's be honest, PvE, which is all I've ever played, is easy once you get established.  Go to Obsidian Mountain, hit the 3 or 4 beaver dam spawns, do your meat run on your favorite path.  It gets too easy.  Having to get more creative or putting any thought or tactical decisions into it at all might be interesting.

[iStephano]

I am scared this will affect pillars you use to build your house. Ground is not even so you need to use pillars to add a floor. If i log in to see half my house gone.. I’m gonna loose it.

[BLACKCAT]

1 hour ago, iStephano said:

I am scared this will affect pillars you use to build your house. Ground is not even so you need to use pillars to add a floor. If i log in to see half my house gone.. I’m gonna loose it.

it will not effect a base, which is build ON pillars, due to a pillar plus a ceiling = foundation. and i bet you base consist out of more than 1 pillar with 1 ceiling on top. 

The new Structure Decay Rules will only effect single placed pillars and prolly pillars with only a ladder to it attached or a cailing - well just stuff thats used to prevent griefing us on PVE...

But WC decide to open new doors for griefers GJ ... well we will see

I 100% agree with the OP

we need some other solution for the massive pillar spam we are forced to place down on PVE (to protect areas, etc.) but as OP sayed makeing us honest players unable to protect against griefing is not very wise.

[ForzaProiettile]

I'm definitely no PVE player but surely this whole mess could be easily solved by having a special building item limited to 1 or 2 per tribe that you place where you want to build and it marks in a radius around it the area as unbuildable to any other tribe or player.

At the same time you would mark caves, obelisks, metal spawns and certain dino spawn areas as unbuildable to any tribe on the server. Every other structure not in the radius of the special building piece would be able to be destroyed like on a normal PVP server and would decay more rapidly.

[BLACKCAT]

1 hour ago, ForzaProiettile said:

I'm definitely no PVE player but surely this whole mess could be easily solved by having a special building item limited to 1 or 2 per tribe that you place where you want to build and it marks in a radius around it the area as unbuildable to any other tribe or player.

At the same time you would mark caves, obelisks, metal spawns and certain dino spawn areas as unbuildable to any tribe on the server. Every other structure not in the radius of the special building piece would be able to be destroyed like on a normal PVP server and would decay more rapidly.

exactly my words since the pillaring became an issue on oooold legacy servers ... like a plot pole (in arma epoch) but i bet its too much work for WC to implement that

instead they open agian doors for more griefing, like as the last structure decay change ... well changed nothing 

they are going to make it even worse now 

[Ganelon]

Here's a couple of ideas...

Decay for individual connected structure has to be manually reset by the radial, not by render. You want pillars... you need to keep wanting them. You don't just get to 'own' real-estate with a pillar and ladder. 

or

Progressive decay with resource upkeep. Again... connected structures combine and administer upkeep.

 

You want to 'own' everything? Want a huge horking box of doom? You pay for it.

IMO, either one of those is preferable to the current system.

[BLACKCAT]

naaaa, its easier to fu** up the PVE community again and make again room for griefers

sorry but i only have sarcasm for that upcoming change

quote from reddit:

"Don't fu** around with pillars and foundations again Wildcard. You only made it worse last time."

[arrojado1200]

Pilar is bad, but it is also necessary. Protecting resources such as metals, crystals, obsidia, silica, etc. is key in PVE. Protecting specific spawns, such as beaver spawns, is critical in PVE. A new player will end up building in these areas if they are not protected.

I believe that another solution must be given. You can make these areas protected against construction, as it does inside the caves in the PVE. And to ensure that no player builds a straw hut within my land, a land reclamation system such as a flag or something similar could be implemented. A system that must be "to feed", like a generator that uses gasoline (example only). And if the "food" of the system runs out, the base goes into autodecay. They are just ideas.

[Oli4]

The update sounds like a very bad idea for PvE, i’d rather see pillars everywhere And have the option to farm resources than seeing 200 1x1 buildings on resource spots because trolls will definetly do that. 

If you implement this rule you should have 10 GM’s online 24/7 Just for PvE because servers will become very messy/griefed fast.

[BLACKCAT]

i doubt they heed our concerns

[mafdet]

10 hours ago, Demerus said:

@Jatheish @Jen @Eli @Chris

If you want to do this change right, make sure to block building on or near resource nodes and dinos spawns like spinos, beavers, etc. This is one of the biggest uses for pillars in PVE and the last line of defense we have against griefers and other players in general. Back on legacy every single beaver spawn on my island server was built on and blocked so nobody was able to tame them or farm the dams.

Its not about claiming land, its about protecting resources/dino spawns from other ignorant players who don't know better (intended or not). Pillaring important locations is allowing access to everyone in the server to farm what they need in those areas without fear of randoms closing it off or erasing the nodes completely. Things like Spino sails are very important for boss battles and progression. Highly dino spawn areas for meat runs for raising babies, dense bushed areas for berries, etc. 5 of my neighbor tribes on my server use 1 area for meat runs we have pillared off to prevent anyone from building on or near it to preserve the spawn volume and makes farming meat less of a chore than it already is. That security will be gone soon with these changes.
Sanctuary no build zones need to desperately be considered and thoroughly implemented.

I and many other players would consider these pretty important additions to consider: Things like preventing building on and blocking resources causing them not to respawn. Also what about completely encasing resources like walling off crystal caves, Wyvern cave on Rag or boxing in Charge nodes for example? In PVP its easy just toss some C4 down and job is done. Consider the PVE aspect for a second, we need to police our own servers to an extent by pillaring key areas because we are left with no other choice. So now I ask, where are these mentioned in the code of conduct? Its not just negative effects of pillaring, there are also positive and productive uses which will soon be stripped away. Please make the nodes block structure placement.

What are other's thoughts on these upcoming changes and how they will effect us as players? Feel free to chime in.

 

I don’t think anyone has the right to block building regardless of the reason. It is a game for all players so any reason in the world is not good enough.

[Chevalie]

Prevent others to build on top resource and remove the resource spawn point is a legal things. But sometimes for new player it is hard to build base because of it. Maybe the change need to be tune for more balance. Like can not put pillar farther then 10 foundation from 10 stick foundation so there will be limit to the area we can pillar

[BLACKCAT]

14 minutes ago, mafdet said:

I don’t think anyone has the right to block building regardless of the reason. It is a game for all players so any reason in the world is not good enough.

you obviously not have been griefed very much

You are right, in that beautiful game no other player should have the right to decide where others should build or not build, but that only works with players that just wanne play in a decent way and will have some fun with others, learn new friends etc. sadly there are players that like to fu** up others, just because they can...

and here you nice idea fails

pillars are like money, if you have them, good - if you are surrounded by them and you dont own them ... bad

and what WC tryed to force is just as last time they changed the decay timers from single pillers/foundations to 12h

they not made it any better, they just opened room for more trolls to spam even worse things like pillars with a ceiling on top (which becomes a foundation = blocks spawns / pillars do not) or foundations with a doorframe attached to it... also no spawns around

Im still for the already from ForzaProiettile mentioned solution "...could be easily solved by having a special building item limited to 1 or 2 per tribe that you place where you want to build and it marks in a radius around it the area as unbuildable to any other tribe or player."

the change they plan would make players only spam lil thatch houses instaed of pillars not so ideal solution to a pillar spam, when you wanne call it like that...

 

[Demerus]

@Jatheish @Jen

all the pillaring problems can be solved by increasing the structure block radius so other tribes don't build so close to each other.

Have resource node spawn points block structures nearby like an enemy building (Everything including: Metal nodes, crystal nodes, obsidian nodes, oil nodes, etc.)

Sanctuary no build zones on:

 1. ALL MAP selectable SPAWN POINTS - I can't stress this enough.

2. Spino spawns, beaver spawns

3. Charge nodes to prevent players from encasing them and blocking access from other players

4. All Resource nodes (most metal and crystal nodes are near natural resources like wood and stone which protects them at the same time)

[Frogspoison]

Suggestion for PvE servers - Greatly decrease the radius at which structures block resource and creature spawns, to the point that resources and creatures can spawn inside a base. In exchange, add a new item that's the opposite of Re-fertilizer, that completely blocks out spawns for an area that's relatively cheap to create.

[Corrigan]

I don't understand why they don't add a special structure that claims a large area around it for the tribe/player who places it. Limit a tribe 2-3 of this specific structure type. If they want to secure a specific area for nodes or spawns, fine, but you have two 'claim pillars' left. After 3 or 4 are placed, your expansionalism is over. 

 

Your only allowed to build within the structures radius, with the exception of spikes which should have a 2-3 hour decay timer. 

[Wowiwon]

All the pessimists are killing me lol! Just wait and see what they have in mind before you lose your cool. They may have a better solution than anyone on the forums has come up with, who knows? It is what it is, and that's something you have no control over. Idk if I'm more excited to see their solution, or all the crying after it comes out lmao 

[Avaraxius]

2 minutes ago, Wowiwon said:

All the pessimists are killing me lol! Just wait and see what they have in mind before you lose your cool. They may have a better solution than anyone on the forums has come up with, who knows? It is what it is, and that's something you have no control over. Idk if I'm more excited to see their solution, or all the crying after it comes out lmao 

dunno if they had i think they would have already done it by release... 'phase one' of pillar change was not much of a succes

[Wowiwon]

They were testing the waters with a potential solution. I think they realize now that it didn't work, and need to go a more complicated route. I get protecting spawns, but what some people don't get is that those spawns are a small part of the map. New players build on em out of necessity and occasionally stupidity, not because they want to. 

[Legislator]

7 minutes ago, Wowiwon said:

They were testing the waters with a potential solution. I think they realize now that it didn't work, and need to go a more complicated route. I get protecting spawns, but what some people don't get is that those spawns are a small part of the map. New players build on em out of necessity and occasionally stupidity, not because they want to. 

Some yes, however ... within 3 years we've had
1. block bases on metal spawns (old volcano, blue orb, smaller mountains)
2. no beaver dam spawns for weeks because people were blocking them with mini bases
3. before the redwood forest biom update a tribe claimed about 50 % of the area (the area wipe was a bless)
4. recently a guy foundation blocked craigs island without any reason
5. we had people who were trying to block the obelisks for players
6. we had tribes who were blocking seapens in bays and threatened the owners (passage for ingots)

So yeah, new players could accidently build somewhere but they are not the problem. From my experience they listen to other players and older players help them to find a good spot somewhere else. They even get startup kits and protection from the wilderness as a thank you sometimes. So at least on my server the pillaring was a real protection that all older tribes agreed to, working together to keep the server in a good state. New players get introduced to the rules and 9 out of 10 players agree and join the healthy protection. 

Now ... well ... we will see if we can still do boss fights every week if the rivers get blocked with small useless houses. We will see if we will still be able to get lots of metal or if grievers will destroy them just because they can. We will see if pathways are now being blocked on purpose so players can't pass with Gigas anymore. We will see if we are going to find house spawm instead pillar spam. We will see ... 

[BigshotCJ]

8 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

I'm definitely no PVE player but surely this whole mess could be easily solved by having a special building item limited to 1 or 2 per tribe that you place where you want to build and it marks in a radius around it the area as unbuildable to any other tribe or player.

At the same time you would mark caves, obelisks, metal spawns and certain dino spawn areas as unbuildable to any tribe on the server. Every other structure not in the radius of the special building piece would be able to be destroyed like on a normal PVP server and would decay more rapidly.

Works in other games, like having a plot pole in dayz to mark your land.

[arrojado1200]

8 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

I'm definitely no PVE player but surely this whole mess could be easily solved by having a special building item limited to 1 or 2 per tribe that you place where you want to build and it marks in a radius around it the area as unbuildable to any other tribe or player.

At the same time you would mark caves, obelisks, metal spawns and certain dino spawn areas as unbuildable to any tribe on the server. Every other structure not in the radius of the special building piece would be able to be destroyed like on a normal PVP server and would decay more rapidly.

The idea is great. This item, limited to 1 or 2 per tribe could also be transportable if I want to move and build a new base on another terrain.