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Opinions regarding infanticide for XP.....


ThzNutz

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I personally agree that it is an exploit.. Hate me for it idc.. My reasoning is.. Get yourself a breeding pair doesnt matter how hard it is. And just pump out eggs. One after another. No risk to that.. Stock pile them and boom power leveling using only eggs. Essentially free. Because you still have your breeding pair its not trading anything for the new eggs... Harvesting wood to grind requires you to leave the comfy chair youd use to safely watch your eggs hatch, risk the wilderness of pouncing raptors everytime you need to get wood.

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1 minute ago, DJRone89 said:

@ThzNutz Ever tamed Troodon’s? Babies set to neutral is the easiest way to tame them.

i have not -- we have no use for them. i am not implying that baby dinos have no use or even that they shouldnt be killed if need be -- my opinion is that hatching 100 giga eggs to reach level 90 almost immediately is an unintended/exploitative  game mechanic. 

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2 minutes ago, IanHighlander said:

Heh, see, forums and playing Ark at the same time don't mix... my bad...

well you have it easy lmao

im at work, moderating here, trying to keep up with this conversation, eating pizza and coordinating the repair of my washing machine that my wife cant seem to put a balanced load in (love you tho honey :) )

if only i were Arking atm hahahahaha

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Guest DJRone89
11 minutes ago, ThzNutz said:

i have not -- we have no use for them. i am not implying that baby dinos have no use or even that they shouldnt be killed if need be -- my opinion is that hatching 100 giga eggs to reach level 90 almost immediately is an unintended/exploitative  game mechanic. 

But you would still need to have access to those 100 eggs, and hatch them, so it’s not really an instant XP gain because of the prep needed beforehand.

P.S. I feed my boss Rex’s, boss baby Rex’s lol 

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16 minutes ago, ThzNutz said:

well you have it easy lmao

im at work, moderating here, trying to keep up with this conversation, eating pizza and coordinating the repair of my washing machine that my wife cant seem to put a balanced load in (love you tho honey :) )

if only i were Arking atm hahahahaha

Not wanting to take this off topic (and last post I promise) but I am in the Uk and have already done a full days work :P

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Guest DJRone89
25 minutes ago, Phyrist said:

I personally agree that it is an exploit.. Hate me for it idc.. My reasoning is.. Get yourself a breeding pair doesnt matter how hard it is. And just pump out eggs. One after another. No risk to that.. Stock pile them and boom power leveling using only eggs. Essentially free. Because you still have your breeding pair its not trading anything for the new eggs... Harvesting wood to grind requires you to leave the comfy chair youd use to safely watch your eggs hatch, risk the wilderness of pouncing raptors everytime you need to get wood.

But you couldn’t just use one breeding pair due to the mating cool down. Besides you will still need babies of a decent level through extensive breeding for it to be beneficial in the first place.

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Nobodys mentioned the twins or triplet babies. From One egg. Free XP. Doesnt take much prep time to pick up an egg off the ground and stock pile it until you need to powerlvl. Drop it and hatch. Kill baby(s). Free xp. Dont even need to harvest meat to raise the hatchlings cause theyll just be euthanised anyway...Tossing stuff in the grinder still requires prepwork via getting the items from drops, alpha dinos, or harvesting grindable resources.. Which all of those require you risking something in order to get the item/resource to grind...  Hatching 100s of eggs doesnt. And anyone who says that the effort to get the breeding pair is reason enough to get xp from babies.. I disagree.. You got the breeding pair for a reason..to raise its offspring.. right? Unless you got the breeders to specifically powerlvl.. (Kibble doesnt require any hatching so ignoring that) so you didnt waste time or effort getting the breeders as theyre still useful. Sitting around waiting for free eggs to drop one after another doesnt require skill, effort or risk.. And also gonna add babies dont fight back when you smack em with a sword... Even less effort and risk.

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2 minutes ago, IanHighlander said:

and have already done a full days work

just sayin im still doin my full day hehehehe  -- not implying you have been playing ark all day, but if you were my hats off to ya :) 

its my topic and if i want to engage a forum member to make sure there are no hard feelings over a misunderstanding that is my prerogative -- post as you will good sir 

16 minutes ago, DJRone89 said:

But you would still need to have access to those 100 eggs, and hatch them, so it’s not really an instant XP gain because of the prep needed beforehand.

 im saying that killing babies in mass solely for xp gain is unintended. the prep work and whatever  for those 100 eggs solely for the xp gained is nothing compared to the work and risk of gaining the same xp otherwise. you disagree?

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33 minutes ago, DJRone89 said:

But you couldn’t just use one breeding pair due to the mating cool down.

but once you have a mated pair you have as many of that dino as you want in a pretty short period of time, especially given twins/triplets -- kill all other males (fine, just dont think you should get the same xp for killing a level 224 rex when the 224 rex you killed is a...baby...) and you will have more fert eggs than you know what to do with

unless you are mass killing them just for the xp

 

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4 hours ago, ThzNutz said:

just sayin im still doin my full day hehehehe  -- not implying you have been playing ark all day, but if you were my hats off to ya :) 

its my topic and if i want to engage a forum member to make sure there are no hard feelings over a misunderstanding that is my prerogative -- post as you will good sir 

 im saying that killing babies in mass solely for xp gain is unintended. the prep work and whatever  for those 100 eggs solely for the xp gained is nothing compared to the work and risk of gaining the same xp otherwise. you disagree?

Making thatch on multiple industrial grinders is probably easier to achieve.

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7 hours ago, ThzNutz said:

true, i remember saving mats to craft our first one, threw a bunch of stuff in it and let it do its magic.....i was horribly underwhelmed :D 

werent they given the XP thing later to give them some value?

i like it too :) 

Haha, we kept up with forums so i dont think we bothered to make one right away on our main server. I know we made one on scorched and made way to much profit off mantis before the patches. 

I cant remember honestly. That feels so long ago. That sounds about right though.

 

I guess the real question is, how is this coded into ark.. They are technically wild so how would the game differentiate between a hatched egg wild and a wild walking around? I would guess something to do with how it tags its' age (baby juvi ado) For discussions' sake.. how would you propose a 'fix'?

Keep in mind Troodons need to be tamed still (if you blanket nerf baby dino xp given) 

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On 5/25/2018 at 3:54 AM, ThzNutz said:

this has nothing to do with the topic and was specifically asked not to be discussed -- bragging about how many baby dinos you murder at a time def makes you cool tho...right?

so because you can do it in the game its legitimate? so under mesh is fine too then lol? your argument totally reinforces the opinion that mass killing babies solely for gain is an  unintended game mechanic, hence an exploit. 

 

That's the thing with opinions tho, when someone uses a game mechanic for unintended reasons it's either a excellent idea and everyone likes it or don't do that it's bad your using a exploit.

 

For example dive bombing with a ptera that has c4 it's a smart use of game mechanics in unintended ways.

 

Or storing items in a beacon then removing them near your base so you don't need to carry it across the map another instance of a intended mechanic used in alternative ways.

 

Or what about placing a fence foundation to increase the number of walls you can have I bet they designed the building mechanics but never intended on people doing that.

 

You see this is where things get personal and all depend on someone's opinion of what is a exploit and what is a alternative use of mechanics

 

Yes dragging someone through a solid wall if you can grab their feet is a exploit but yet again it's just using mechanics in a alternative way

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It is my opinion that no tamed dino or baby should give xps. No risk, no reward. Raising it is not a risk. I never killed babies on officials as I felt it was too easy and a grey area and didnt feel right doing it. The xps you get off of easily attained wyvern eggs on Ragnarok is a joke.

I do have a horse in this race, none of my remaining official toons are 100+.

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1 hour ago, DESTROYER said:

That's the thing with opinions tho, when someone uses a game mechanic for unintended reasons it's either a excellent idea and everyone likes it or don't do that it's bad your using a exploit.

 

For example dive bombing with a ptera that has c4 it's a smart use of game mechanics in unintended ways.

 

Or storing items in a beacon then removing them near your base so you don't need to carry it across the map another instance of a intended mechanic used in alternative ways.

 

Or what about placing a fence foundation to increase the number of walls you can have I bet they designed the building mechanics but never intended on people doing that.

 

You see this is where things get personal and all depend on someone's opinion of what is a exploit and what is a alternative use of mechanics

 

Yes dragging someone through a solid wall if you can grab their feet is a exploit but yet again it's just using mechanics in a alternative way

@ThzNutz I’ve been told by your fellow mods that it’s not deemed “exploiting game mechanics” unless it’s blatant cheating. So you can’t go throwing that term around or you’ll get talked down like I did (my example in question was pillaring).

I’m glad to see we’re on the same wavelength when it comes to using that term though, even if we are wrong, apparently.

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On 5/24/2018 at 9:23 PM, d1nk said:

I guess the real question is, how is this coded into ark.. They are technically wild so how would the game differentiate between a hatched egg wild and a wild walking around? I would guess something to do with how it tags its' age (baby juvi ado) For discussions' sake.. how would you propose a 'fix'?

Keep in mind Troodons need to be tamed still (if you blanket nerf baby dino xp given) 

Not to split hairs, but newly hatched/born creatures don't fall into the "wild" category, they are simply unclaimed.  "Unclaimed" creatures of any age behave as if they are basically tamed creatures in a different tribe (call it the "Unclaimed Tribe" if you will).  Unclaimed creatures have some interesting possibilities outside of the official server environment, and I feature some of those in a number of videos, but I'm wandering pretty far from the topic.

I'm not the biggest fan of activities that can be done AFK earning a player any significant amount of experience on official servers.  That includes grinder use.  My personal feeling is it should produce a trickle of experience yes, but not an amount that would be important to anyone but a beginner. 

In the specific case of infanticide XP could be a fraction based on the babies age, but frankly even that is a bit much when you consider that babies (or unclaimed juveniles/adolescents) won't fight back, they only attempt to flee... and relatively slowly at that.  It may not be a popular opinion, but I don't believe that slaying unclaimed babies before they starve should have any significant XP value for either players or their tames, and I can see arguments for them giving none at all.  The statistics would still be there for the game engine to reference in the unique case of Troodon taming.  I'm a bit old school that way.

All that being said, WC seem to be okay with certain, shall we say passive, activities granting a decent amount of experience over a long period of time.  Also in a game where being a cannibal is acceptable, mass infanticide might just appeal to WC's sometimes slightly dark sense of humor (not necessarily a bad thing).  I have a feeling that it's 50/50 whether they would feel any major need to change the status quo.

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15 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

Not to split hairs, but newly hatched/born creatures don't fall into the "wild" category, they are simply unclaimed.  "Unclaimed" creatures of any age behave as if they are basically tamed creatures in a different tribe (call it the "Unclaimed Tribe" if you will).  Unclaimed creatures have some interesting possibilities outside of the official server environment, and I feature some of those in a number of videos, but I'm wandering pretty far from the topic.

I'm not the biggest fan of activities that can be done AFK earning a player any significant amount of experience on official servers.  That includes grinder use.  My personal feeling is it should produce a trickle of experience yes, but not an amount that would be important to anyone but a beginner. 

In the specific case of infanticide XP could be a fraction based on the babies age, but frankly even that is a bit much when you consider that babies (or unclaimed juveniles/adolescents) won't fight back, they only attempt to flee... and relatively slowly at that.  It may not be a popular opinion, but I don't believe that slaying unclaimed babies before they starve should have any significant XP value for either players or their tames, and I can see arguments for them giving none at all.  The statistics would still be there for the game engine to reference in the unique case of Troodon taming.  I'm a bit old school that way.

All that being said, WC seem to be okay with certain, shall we say passive, activities granting a decent amount of experience over a long period of time.  Also in a game where being a cannibal is acceptable, mass infanticide might just appeal to WC's sometimes slightly dark sense of humor (not necessarily a bad thing).  I have a feeling that it's 50/50 whether they would feel any major need to change the status quo.

Thanks for that bit about unclaimed dinos, I just figured they were born wild for whatever reason. Thats even easier to tweak, should they feel the need to patch this.  That brings me to a point i was going to make in the last post but didnt, about this whole "intended" buisness.. Is it intended that we gain exp from killing enemy dinos? Maybe a significant reduction would be good 

 

Regardless. Passive exp; if they added more rewarding ways to gain exp outside: scowering map for alphas (low med exp) , mass killing (bad exp) and the passives which give the most (grinder, narcs, massive waste building) I would be 100% on your viewpoint about it. Honestly the best way (as solo) to get exp is just prefarm and go for a smoke while the grinder / narcs / gunpower is running.

I would love for another engaging way. It might be a bit far fetched to expect a redesign on that aspect though.. I would really hate for a blanket nerf without it 

 

 

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2 hours ago, DJRone89 said:

@ThzNutz I’ve been told by your fellow mods that it’s not deemed “exploiting game mechanics” unless it’s blatant cheating. So you can’t go throwing that term around or you’ll get talked down like I did (my example in question was pillaring).

I’m glad to see we’re on the same wavelength when it comes to using that term though, even if we are wrong, apparently.

The thing is when it comes to grey areas that haven't been fully classified, the tricky part is how people interpret something.

 

If something is possible as a by product due to a mechanic but not intended it can be called a exploit, even something simple like sinking a foundation with the use of pillars it was not intended but because of this broad grey are it's possible to call it what you want a exploit or a alternative use of mechanics.

 

But now a small dip into pillaring

It's yet again all about how people interpret something and their opinion

If I pillar somewhere then sell my mass quantities of land I'm playing ark unfairly for a material gain. 

But no I want to reword that to change opinions.

I pillar land to prevent trolls from ruining resources.

cheat

act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.

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On 5/25/2018 at 10:32 AM, ThzNutz said:

and is an intended game mechanic :) 

and that means you trekked out to get alot of wood = risk

 

 

 

You can't forget about the time risk and effort that would go into preparing for  giga baby murder.

First thing prepping enough air cons then waiting for a giga to spawn and using all those tranqs and narcs  to tame it then do it again either for a breeding pair or a mass amount of lady gigas that's no small feat but let's continue now if you only have a breeding pair have fun getting 1 egg a day unless you spent a good amount of time and resources getting your lady gigas and don't even suggest raising them.

 

All that would require you to be at a reasonably late stage in ark and have spent a few weeks preparing so time for grinders.

 

Or farm for 3 grinders in a day then eat trees with a beaver and relax while the grinders AFK exp for you

 

OK now that is out of the way.

Mass murder of baby Dino's is a rather OP method of grinding exp but the amount of time and effort to make it effective is rather extensive and I would personally opt for the grinders

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Is there a difference in xp gained from killing babies that just hatched and are still unclaimed, and babies that just hatched and have been claimed?

I'm on pve do I can't test, we can only kill our own dinos, not "foreign tribe" ones.

So on pve we can't put boss rexes on agressive and wander to auto-level them, like someone mentioned here (sorry, at work atm, no time to look up who it was).

 

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The Chinese on my fresh PVE server with their four tribes and then capping their tribe tame limit with dodos isn't exploitative at all..  

They just started a fifth because we now count 5 different [][][][][] in tribe chat as they communicate with eschother. The fifth now has a bunch of brontos with platforms. We anticipate a 6th by July so they can use our fresh server as dino storage. 

Screw this baby hatching exp exploit. Who cares...

I also don't wana hear, 'oh, but the game permits it'. Well, the game permits exp from hatching Dino's too so, just leave it be then. 

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