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Why nerf Dolphin?


Frogspoison

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On 5/11/2018 at 3:04 AM, AngryChris73 said:

I mean like DILO! Argy wasnt op now hes trash! Plesio is a garbage mosa NOW HE HAS NOTHING GOING FOR HIM U RUINED MY BABIES! MY BABIES RAPPED BY STUPID DEVS WANTING THEIR PLAYERBASE TOO LOWER, LIKE WHY?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! well looks like im switching ovr to Mosa... AND WHY NERF ARMOR WELL NOW WE GOTTA PUMP INTO WEIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

decent base weight, weight reduction on metal, ingots, obsidian and crystal, carries doeds, ankys, beavers. try building anything without using argys to transport stuff...

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On 5/12/2018 at 12:33 AM, Zederia said:

it's just another way to keep slowing down the game. instead of fixing the problems with the engine they are choosing to more and more delay players. oxy got a nerf, and now speed is getting yet another nerf. why? It's simple, they only want big tribes to survive and no one else seems to matter anymore.

Well, these nerfs are a direct result of linear stat progression that should have been revisited during/right after "Great dino nerf" 2 years ago. Devs dealt with inflated stats in a very lazy way without addressing the core issue (stat scaling) and continue to do so. It has nothing to do with players or tribes but rather a core problem with the game.

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On 5/14/2018 at 2:25 AM, Zederia said:

not everything is about combat. you can have free reign of where you want to go that is ruling the oceans

OMG! A Manta! Run! A Anglerfish! Run! A Jellyfish! Run! A Eel! Run! A Megalodon! Run! A Plesiosaur! Run! A Mosasaur! Run! A Tusoteuthis! Run!

I wouldn't exactly call that "ruling the oceans". You don't exactly have free reign when you can't stay in a place longer than 5 seconds without risking being eaten by everything that is chasing you (which is everything in the ocean). Ruling the oceans is this. I'm on a Tuso, a trio of Plesiosaurs and a Mosasaur are coming at me, and i say "bring it", they can't force me to leave. On a Tuso, i go wherever i want in the ocean, with no fear.

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6 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

The reason is related to the effect speed has on servers. Some things are were too fast and could kind of desync the server a bit. For instance before they nerfed oxygen you could so fast that the server would struggle to keep up, same for Pteradons.

 

56 minutes ago, Cachumb4 said:

This is a case very similar to that of the flyers .. but I think it is well thought .. and especially in pvp

With all due respect, I think you both have missed the point. Prior to the patch, the Manta was the fastest swimmer and the Mosa was able to 99% match the Plesi's speed. Post-patch, the Manta is still the fastest swimmer and the Mosa now is faster than the Plesi by around 35%. If this was truly due to speed and only speed, why would they not adjust the speed of the fastest swimmer? AND also not leave the Mosa untouched at virtually 99% speed that the Plesi was before they adjusted it?

9 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

Well, these nerfs are a direct result of linear stat progression that should have been revisited during/right after "Great dino nerf" 2 years ago. Devs dealt with inflated stats in a very lazy way without addressing the core issue (stat scaling) and continue to do so. It has nothing to do with players or tribes but rather a core problem with the game.

You might be right. But, and I direct this at the devs, is making the Plesi inferior to the Mosa in every way (save for Stamina and Hitbox size) the best approach? Is that not the opposite direction the TLC patches have been taking? Is the only purpose of the Ichthy to be roving seafood for the other water dwellers while the Manta keeps it ability to more than quadruple it's base tamed sprinting speed(and that is not even counting imprinting)? In my opinion, an across-the-board base speed nerf - akin to the oxygen swim speed nerf - seems like a more likely starting point if swim speed or overzealous stat scaling were the core issue. And just to point out, in regards to stat scaling, Manta speed scales at 5% of its speed per point while the Plesi scaled at 1% of its speed per point pre-patch. Which would need adjusting if stat scaling were problematic?

@Jatheish, can we have some insight as to exactly what goal Wildcard is pursuing? I am still hesitant to pursue breeding Mosas to replace my Plesis if a speed nerf is heading for them as well.

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Simply put, we felt that they were reaching speeds that we weren't comfortable with and were highly effective vs underwater bases, so we made a tweak to bring them more in line. We can't really tell you for sure when something is going to change or not, the game and meta are ever-evolving. There's certainly a possibility for more changes to any creature, really.

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11 minutes ago, Jatheish said:

Simply put, we felt that they were reaching speeds that we weren't comfortable with and were highly effective vs underwater bases, so we made a tweak to bring them more in line. We can't really tell you for sure when something is going to change or not, the game and meta are ever-evolving. There's certainly a possibility for more changes to any creature, really.

Instead of Nerfing the Dolphine you could make something like a Forcefield that slows dinos but it only works for underwater and works when the dino for example ichy has a certain speed level where the turrets wont shoot for example... so they get slowed in a good distance to normalish / trackable speed.

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8 hours ago, Jatheish said:

Simply put, we felt that they were reaching speeds that we weren't comfortable with and were highly effective vs underwater bases, so we made a tweak to bring them more in line. We can't really tell you for sure when something is going to change or not, the game and meta are ever-evolving. There's certainly a possibility for more changes to any creature, really.

Then that nerf makes even less sense: there are underwater creatures that can easily compete with pre-nerf Ichty in speed, yet they were not affected by the change.

On 5/19/2018 at 2:11 AM, adv3rsity said:

In my opinion, an across-the-board base speed nerf - akin to the oxygen swim speed nerf - seems like a more likely starting point if swim speed or overzealous stat scaling were the core issue.

Blanket swim speed nerf would be a disaster just because it would affect land dinos (that are not great swimmers) as well and there are underwater creatures that can hardly be called fast, for example, Liopleurodon.

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19 hours ago, Jatheish said:

Simply put, we felt that they were reaching speeds that we weren't comfortable with and were highly effective vs underwater bases, so we made a tweak to bring them more in line. We can't really tell you for sure when something is going to change or not, the game and meta are ever-evolving. There's certainly a possibility for more changes to any creature, really.

Thank you, @Jatheish, for replying. I sincerely do appreciate it. However, I do have to ask then is Wildcard content with the Mosa reaching 99% of the speeds the Plesi was capable of pre-patch? I cannot imagine how this is acceptable seeing as the same performance issues should be there as with the Plesi, yet the Mosa was not adjusted and you did not mention that it would be, other than a reserved blanket statement (no disrespect intended).

10 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

Then that nerf makes even less sense: there are underwater creatures that can easily compete with pre-nerf Ichty in speed, yet they were not affected by the change.

Blanket swim speed nerf would be a disaster just because it would affect land dinos (that are not great swimmers) as well and there are underwater creatures that can hardly be called fast, for example, Liopleurodon.

I have to agree with @DarthaNyan that the nerf makes less sense to me now as the Mosa can still achieve those speeds and Manta can still vastly outpace the speeds of the Plesi pre-patch. Again, the Manta can double it's base tamed sprinting speed with only 20 points taking it from 2700 speed to 5200 speed. The pre-patch Plesi would need 45 points to match that speed. If the Plesi and the much slower Ichthy were problematic, then surely the Mosa is likewise problematic and the Manta must be absolutely game-breaking. I am certainly not clamoring for a nerf to either creature, but just clarification how certain creatures cannot be allowed to zoom around breaking things while others can.

Also, @DarthaNyan, I agree that just a blanket swim speed nerf would be problematic if it were the only adjustment used. That is I why I suggested that it merely serve as a starting point - ideally with individual consideration given to edge cases (Spino, Liopleurodon, and etc...). Such consideration, in my humble opinion, was not used in the nerf we are discussing.

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On 5/23/2018 at 12:31 PM, AngryChris73 said:

just remove the speed stat all together: fixed

While your idea may resolve the issue, I personally would not want to see that method implemented at all. To this day, I still dislike that players cannot invest points into tamed flyers. In my opinion, one of Ark's greatest draws is the ability to customize tamed creatures. Making every Ichthy the same exact speed without any variation at all, is very limiting. If we can make our tames have more health, sprint longer, hold their breath longer, and etc than their wild counterparts, why not be able to make them have more speed? Remember, the path of least resistance is not necessarily the best path, but the easiest.

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On May 24, 2018 at 2:44 PM, adv3rsity said:

While your idea may resolve the issue, I personally would not want to see that method implemented at all. To this day, I still dislike that players cannot invest points into tamed flyers. In my opinion, one of Ark's greatest draws is the ability to customize tamed creatures. Making every Ichthy the same exact speed without any variation at all, is very limiting. If we can make our tames have more health, sprint longer, hold their breath longer, and etc than their wild counterparts, why not be able to make them have more speed? Remember, the path of least resistance is not necessarily the best path, but the easiest.

But wildcard doesnt want variation

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On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 10:20 AM, adv3rsity said:

Thank you, @Jatheish, for replying. I sincerely do appreciate it. However, I do have to ask then is Wildcard content with the Mosa reaching 99% of the speeds the Plesi was capable of pre-patch? I cannot imagine how this is acceptable seeing as the same performance issues should be there as with the Plesi, yet the Mosa was not adjusted and you did not mention that it would be, other than a reserved blanket statement (no disrespect intended).

I have to agree with @DarthaNyan that the nerf makes less sense to me now as the Mosa can still achieve those speeds and Manta can still vastly outpace the speeds of the Plesi pre-patch. Again, the Manta can double it's base tamed sprinting speed with only 20 points taking it from 2700 speed to 5200 speed. The pre-patch Plesi would need 45 points to match that speed. If the Plesi and the much slower Ichthy were problematic, then surely the Mosa is likewise problematic and the Manta must be absolutely game-breaking. I am certainly not clamoring for a nerf to either creature, but just clarification how certain creatures cannot be allowed to zoom around breaking things while others can.

Also, @DarthaNyan, I agree that just a blanket swim speed nerf would be problematic if it were the only adjustment used. That is I why I suggested that it merely serve as a starting point - ideally with individual consideration given to edge cases (Spino, Liopleurodon, and etc...). Such consideration, in my humble opinion, was not used in the nerf we are discussing.

Mosa is a lot harder to mass breed / tame and conceal. Id imagine that plays a large part in it. You can get an itchy as a beach bob with some meat or maybe a prime, then you can instantly grief bases AND hide it real easily. If it gets killed its just a simple tame, kind of the same situaton Pteras were in

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On 5/25/2018 at 3:55 PM, AngryChris73 said:

But wildcard doesnt want variation

I would not go that far but there does seem to be a strong desire to reduce speeds though, for whatever reason. 

23 hours ago, d1nk said:

Mosa is a lot harder to mass breed / tame and conceal. Id imagine that plays a large part in it. You can get an itchy as a beach bob with some meat or maybe a prime, then you can instantly grief bases AND hide it real easily. If it gets killed its just a simple tame, kind of the same situaton Pteras were in

You make a fair point in regards to complexity versus Ichthy and Mosa. I totally get that. Now consider that the Plesi is much closer to the Mosa end of the scale of complexity as opposed to the Ichthy end, and therein is my frustration. If the Mosa is fine based on the amount of complexity and etc, why was the Plesi not?

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On 5/22/2018 at 4:21 PM, Jatheish said:

Simply put, we felt that they were reaching speeds that we weren't comfortable with and were highly effective vs underwater bases, so we made a tweak to bring them more in line. We can't really tell you for sure when something is going to change or not, the game and meta are ever-evolving. There's certainly a possibility for more changes to any creature, really.

so, simply put, we should expect to eventually not be able to change anything at all. It's not the job of the devs to handle or control meta, it's the job of the players.

Also, where is Fliers v3 that was promised AGES ago?

 

You guys have done some good, but mostly it's just been bad lately. Not many people use underwater bases, so why is that such a big concern? why does everything have to get reduced to a snail's pace for you to be happy?

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