Why nerf Dolphin?

[Frogspoison]

So, the Icthyosaurus got it's speed significantly decreased along with the Pleisiosaur. I can see why the Pleisi got speed nerfs - Not only is it a decent powerhouse in the ocean, only being below the Mosa and Squid, but it's fast to boot, with stupid high stamina.

 

But the Icthy? Speed was the ONLY thing the Dolphin has going for it. Now the Manta is better in every possible form - Better health, better damage, better controls, better speed, better everything.  Except belly flopping. The Manta is TERRIBLE at belly flopping onto dry land.

But yea, why nerf the Dolphin's speed?

 

Also, Argent's health. Why nerf the Argent?

[GeoSeb]

There is no dolphin in ark. The Ichthyosaurus is a reptile ...
The Ichtyosarus is a early tame, only lvl in speed and you can more or less rule the ocean. Instead the high basic speed a short second boost or dodge

"attack" would be nice.

The argi is just rules eveything with the quick regeneration. Got a couple of mutated ones they are just op actually.

[marcpullen]

Yeah that is an odd one. I would guess everyone only uses dolphins for racing between red drops. I preferred the dolphin over the mantis because the mantis would keep beaching itself or fly above the surface and instant kill itself.

Now in WC's defense, I have seen a friend's dolphin that was 100% speed spec'd, and it was stupid fast. Like you would go faster than stuff could load like rocks, trees, fish, etc. Might be similar to why flyers were nerfed, I used to have a stupid fast pter. I didn't mind the loading weirdness, but that's all I can think of to justify it.

[elijahbean21]

Man I liked the dolphins I mad at wild card

[AngryChris73]

I mean like DILO! Argy wasnt op now hes trash! Plesio is a garbage mosa NOW HE HAS NOTHING GOING FOR HIM U RUINED MY BABIES! MY BABIES RAPPED BY STUPID DEVS WANTING THEIR PLAYERBASE TOO LOWER, LIKE WHY?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! well looks like im switching ovr to Mosa... AND WHY NERF ARMOR WELL NOW WE GOTTA PUMP INTO WEIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Demerus]

1 hour ago, AngryChris73 said:

I mean like DILO! Argy wasnt op now hes trash! Plesio is a garbage mosa NOW HE HAS NOTHING GOING FOR HIM U RUINED MY BABIES! MY BABIES RAPPED BY STUPID DEVS WANTING THEIR PLAYERBASE TOO LOWER, LIKE WHY?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! well looks like im switching ovr to Mosa... AND WHY NERF ARMOR WELL NOW WE GOTTA PUMP INTO WEIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

username checks out.

[Irinian]

Dolphin and plesi were nerfed because of pvp. you ever heard of a Dolphin Torpedo? basically you raptoring pump speed in rush someones underwater base and get past their turrets to plant c4 which you can do from the back of a dolphin. Same concept with Plesi's only worse because you can build a box to protect you and basically do the raft c4 trick.

[AdligerAdler]

If ichthys were dolphins then "You were Unicorned to death by an ichthyosaurus level 5" would be a feature in Ark. 

 

Edit: The r-word is censored (Unicorned)

[Irinian]

I know what it is thank you but i prefer dolphin since thats what it most acts like.

[Corrigan]

The Icthy was the only underwater dino I ever bothered to tame, and that was because of its speed.

[ilidrael]

this is like their 3rd nerf  well ive been breeding mantas which are like the fastest dinos ingame if xp'd in speed so ill be ok  

[HiImZech]

I think there should be a speed cap instead of overall speed debuff

 

I understand the need to get a cap on them since they are the ones causing server desync after the flyers...but hey a cap will do better because as with all debuff...eventually someone will get a mad ichy to smash that debuff into nothingness and then we'll be back at the flyer nerf (aquatic edition! HYPUUU) again.

[adv3rsity]

8 hours ago, Irinian said:

Dolphin and plesi were nerfed because of pvp. you ever heard of a Dolphin Torpedo? basically you raptoring pump speed in rush someones underwater base and get past their turrets to plant c4 which you can do from the back of a dolphin. Same concept with Plesi's only worse because you can build a box to protect you and basically do the raft c4 trick.

While I do not argue what you are saying, here is some additional information to consider.

First, if this is purely a speed issue, then the Mosasaur and especially the Manta need to be toned down. For instance, according to Ark's wiki, the Plesi has a tamed sprinting speed of 3600 prior to the patch and the Mosa has a tamed sprinting speed of 3520. Thus the Mosa had virtually the same speed with the Plesi maintaining a slight edge, which seems fair considering it is smaller and has less health than the Mosa. Also consider that, to the best of my recollection, the Plesi and Mosa each gained 1% to Movement Speed per talent point spent prior to the patch. Therefore, a Mosa will stay virtually identical to that of a Plesi's speed pre-patch, while the Mosa still retains its superior health, melee damage, and larger capacity platform saddle for protection. The only downside being the Mosa's larger size. However, the Manta is a different story completely.

The Manta has a tamed sprinting speed of 2700 but gains a whopping 5% Movement Speed per talent point as opposed to the paltry 1% the Mosa and Plesi (pre-patch) were receiving. If this is truly a speed issue, then the Manta is the primary culprit as it will surpass any aquatic creature pre-patch or otherwise if enough Speed points are invested. Pre-patch, the Plesi was the fastest base sprinter, but the Manta could surpass the Plesi's base speed after only spending 7 points.

Math:

Manta base tamed sprinting speed (ignoring imprinting) gain per point: 2700 x 0.05 = 135

Plesi base tamed sprinting speed (pre-patch and ignoring imprinting) gain per point: 3600 x 0.01 = 36

If my math is correct, with a minimum of 10 points spent in Movement Speed on both a Plesi (pre-patch) and a Manta, the Manta would always be faster. Manta with 10 points should have 4,050 Movement Speed when sprinting (imprinting ignored) while the Plesi with 10 points (pre-patch) should have 3,960 Movement Speed when sprinting (imprinting ignored). Also consider that with a mere 20 points invested in Speed, the Manta could double it's tamed sprinting speed. For contrast, it would take 100 points spent for a Plesi (pre-patch) or a Mosa to double their tamed sprinting speed.

For comparison, I believe the Ichthy received 3% Movement Speed per talent point prior to the patch but I am not certain of that. However, whatever the prior value was, it was not the 5% gain that the Manta gains and thus kept it below the still obtainable levels of the Manta.

If this is truly a speed issue, then ALL speeds need to be lowered in fixed rate. Nerfing two specific creatures while other superior options remain untouched appears rather silly from where I sit. The Manta is the reigning king of straight-line sprinting and somehow emerged unscathed from this adjustment. I would love to hear a response from wildcard regarding this move.

[ThzNutz]

22 hours ago, marcpullen said:

I have seen a friend's dolphin that was 100% speed spec'd

we had one like that...thing was so stupid fast i couldnt even get it out of the dino gates of its pen -- cant remember if i piked it to death out of anger or it got eaten (piking may just be a hopeful happy thought) but im not sorry its gone

 

[Silentness]

It would of made more sense to make it not possible to throw c4 off an Icthy instead of stripping its only valuable use further down. Oh well, manta rays it is now.

[RNLD10]

rip my fast dolphin

[Zederia]

it's just another way to keep slowing down the game. instead of fixing the problems with the engine they are choosing to more and more delay players. oxy got a nerf, and now speed is getting yet another nerf. why? It's simple, they only want big tribes to survive and no one else seems to matter anymore. So they can enjoy all the servers being owned by china and russia

[Daedros]

On 5/10/2018 at 2:07 PM, GeoSeb said:

The Ichtyosarus is a early tame, only lvl in speed and you can more or less rule the ocean.

Running away from everything in the ocean isn't exactly "ruling" it.

[Zederia]

6 minutes ago, Daedros said:

Running away from everything in the ocean isn't exactly "ruling" it.

not everything is about combat. you can have free reign of where you want to go that is ruling the oceans

[Zederia]

On 5/11/2018 at 3:32 PM, RNLD10 said:

rip my fast dolphin

felt the same way about my argent when they killed flier speeds

[adv3rsity]

As I continue to digest this change, the one thing I keep going back to is I can reproduce what my Plesi breeding program was pre-patch now with Mosas. As I discussed above, Mosas have roughly 99% of the Plesi's base tamed sprinting speed pre-patch with superior stat values (except for Stamina) with the situational downside of a larger hitbox. This change makes the Plesi inferior to the Mosa in every way, save for said smaller hitbox and the potential to sprint longer than the Mosa - assuming the Mosa does not consume Stamina at half the rate of the Plesi. What motivation is there to tame and much less breed a Plesi after a player has access to Mosas? Prior to the patch, one could say Speed. Now, a player on a Plesi can only hope it can sprint longer than the player on a Mosa can - but good luck while the Mosa is faster than you and can chew on you while you try to out-endurance it. With the recent TLC patches, I thought Wildcard was trying to increase viable options of creatures to perform tasks efficiently for players. This speed nerf does the exact opposite of that.

 

My question for @Jatheish  or any other Wildcard Dev that would care to answer is: Before I potentially waste more time and effort switching to taming and then breeding Mosas, are you going to nerf their speed as well? If so, fine, but I would really appreciate knowing that before proceeding.

[emersontome]

bring my flash back!!!!

[Melcreif]

18 hours ago, adv3rsity said:

As I continue to digest this change, the one thing I keep going back to is I can reproduce what my Plesi breeding program was pre-patch now with Mosas. As I discussed above, Mosas have roughly 99% of the Plesi's base tamed sprinting speed pre-patch with superior stat values (except for Stamina) with the situational downside of a larger hitbox. This change makes the Plesi inferior to the Mosa in every way, save for said smaller hitbox and the potential to sprint longer than the Mosa - assuming the Mosa does not consume Stamina at half the rate of the Plesi. What motivation is there to tame and much less breed a Plesi after a player has access to Mosas? Prior to the patch, one could say Speed. Now, a player on a Plesi can only hope it can sprint longer than the player on a Mosa can - but good luck while the Mosa is faster than you and can chew on you while you try to out-endurance it. With the recent TLC patches, I thought Wildcard was trying to increase viable options of creatures to perform tasks efficiently for players. This speed nerf does the exact opposite of that.

 

My question for @Jatheish  or any other Wildcard Dev that would care to answer is: Before I potentially waste more time and effort switching to taming and then breeding Mosas, are you going to nerf their speed as well? If so, fine, but I would really appreciate knowing that before proceeding.

The answer? Of course they are going to Nerf speed on the Mosa and on the Manta. It's what WC does. Slow everything down to a crawl. Oh and if you want to fly somewhere fine, but you should have to stop 8 or 9 times to get there...

[thomz]

them nerf speed for stable server, In my opinion..

 

like nerf speed flyer before.

haha

[HiImZech]

21 hours ago, Melcreif said:

The answer? Of course they are going to Nerf speed on the Mosa and on the Manta. It's what WC does. Slow everything down to a crawl. Oh and if you want to fly somewhere fine, but you should have to stop 8 or 9 times to get there...

lul "we spent a lot of time and effort on the map. we want the players to experience it more"