modders are doing better than devs improving the game!!

[banggugyangu]

48 minutes ago, jrulie101 said:

An origional; as in the idea not so much the fact they used unreal. Batman used unreal. Lol. I was talking about the concept, story, and assets. The hardest-part of the job for any-programmer and the reason why I still suck at life. lol. 

--> I suck at life, because the creation of content (not the mechanics, not the art, but the idea of which it is manifested from) is the hardest part about innovation, period. At least... I never got how that manifestation is done. I wish I would someday. I wish I could think of something... That is what I call origional as in origional thinking. Nobody downloaded the main idea VIA GitHub.

I feel your struggles, my friend. I'm the same way. That's the beauty of a team, though. Everyone has different aspects they're good at.  No one complains about the concept, story, or the individual assets. The game's concept is good, the story is well written and told in an interesting and unique manner, the graphics are on the higher end of whats capable through unreal engine. The problems lie in the code. Few dev teams have the coders working on concept, design, or assets. Coders work on code. Writers work on story. Graphic designers work on graphical assets. Occasionally you have someone who does everything, like Scott Kaufman, but those situations are rare. 

[Zederia]

Just now, jrulie101 said:

 before it was ready despite the disclaimer.

it's still not ready, there's a LOT of work left that needs to be done, and I suspect most of it won't be until long after Extinction is released, if they keep working on the game after that

[jrulie101]

35 minutes ago, Zederia said:

it's still not ready, there's a LOT of work left that needs to be done, and I suspect most of it won't be until long after Extinction is released, if they keep working on the game after that

I believe it will all get fixed, it could take a lot of time in. They already decided to go all the way.

• It is an MMO; those do not die easy.
• It has an SDK, Support for SDK, and News about mods.
• Mods have been applied previously.
• There are currently 5 maps that revolve around the same engine.
• Contests were held with aberrations release in regards to the final boss-fight.
• Two TLC updates have been recently applied.
• SW has historically outsourced some of the work that was made to the unreal engine
  (probably things such as the low-level functions, render engine, stuff usually proprietary to hardware.)
• SW has communicated with the unreal community on several occasions for some fixes that were applied.
• Players, when looking at the marketing angle, players actually like the game. 
• Nitrando is hosting some of the official servers.
• Players go through Nitrando for unofficial servers as well.
• Reddit has what you call a dev-tracker, devs are tracking issues related to the game. 

This game has tons of support which is really good news if anyone is concerned. Modifiers are part of that team which was my point to the origional poster. Work for games like this come from so many angles. many angles. we've all seen how quick SW can be at releasing a 50GB patch. 

But, it takes time. It takes time because within everything that gets released I am pretty sure that SW has to get a "Good to go" across the entire board. That is not to mention the DLC that they have been working on. I don't know how they route all the workload that goes on with the game. That is the magic of a director/project manager.

My key point was made earlier, players should not be concerned with the developers stuff, or they should put their priorities where their concerns are (into developers stuff). This game receives a lot of stigma and praise. A lot of the stigma derives from the players not understanding the lifecycle of a computer program from back whenever the computer program was nothing more than a concept/ide. First, all of us need to understand that this game is edge-bleeding, second it is big, their is a lot of work that has been done, their is still a lot of work to do, and just like everything that is cutting-edge the consumer-base jumped on this making this game a success before the community that supports it can guarantee that. Fortunately, its always had enough support to get it to succeed while it had a huge player-base on it the same-time. 

Its lot of stuff about computer programs that I learned in college, learned in my own, or learned in the military that help me understand that the vast-majority of complaints in regards to this games completion derives from ignorance in that anything and everything like this game is a lifecycle of version, revision, subversion, (re)version. Its circular and that is how programmers have careers. Historically; with any program modifiers take on a huge part of that too.

And maybe this is not-understood because SW never created their own launcher that makes this process look friendly. Instead, they relied on steam. They also did not make you pay a subscription. Its to late for them to back-out now unless they sell the product to another company. At any angle, it will be complete.

But; that is a ton on its own. Maybe the best-way to explain this common complaint is not an excuse or badger but rather knowledge about everything that every major program has to go through and endure during its life-span.  

Thats the source of this post, the source of it is not understanding innovation and development.

[LastSagas]

3 minutes ago, jrulie101 said:

I believe it will all get fixed, it could take a lot of time in. They already decided to go all the way.

• It is an MMO; those do not die easy.
• It has an SDK, Support for SDK, and News about mods.
• Mods have been applied previously.
• There are currently 5 maps that revolve around the same engine.
• Contests were held with aberrations release in regards to the final boss-fight.
• Two TLC updates have been recently applied.
• SW has historically outsourced some of the work that was made to the unreal engine
  (probably things such as the low-level functions, render engine, stuff usually proprietary to hardware.)
• SW has communicated with the unreal community on several occasions for some fixes that were applied.
• Players, when looking at the marketing angle, players actually like the game. 
• Nitrando is hosting some of the official servers.
• Players go through Nitrando for unofficial servers as well.
• Reddit has what you call a dev-tracker, devs are tracking issues related to the game. 

This game has tons of support which is really good news if anyone is concerned. Modifiers are part of that team which was my point to the origional poster. Work for games like this come from so many angles. many angles. we've all seen how quick SW can be at releasing a 50GB patch. 

But, it takes time. It takes time because within everything that gets released I am pretty sure that SW has to get a "Good to go" across the entire board. That is not to mention the DLC that they have been working on. I don't know how they route all the workload that goes on with the game. That is the magic of a director/project manager.

My key point was made earlier, players should not be concerned with the developers stuff, or they should put their priorities where their concerns are (into developers stuff). This game receives a lot of stigma and praise. A lot of the stigma derives from the players not understanding the lifecycle of a computer program from back whenever the computer program was nothing more than a concept/ide. First, all of us need to understand that this game is edge-bleeding, second it is big, their is a lot of work that has been done, their is still a lot of work to do, and just like everything that is cutting-edge the consumer-base jumped on this making this game a success before the community that supports it can guarantee that. Fortunately, its always had enough support to get it to succeed while it had a huge player-base on it the same-time. 

Its lot of stuff about computer programs that I learned in college, learned in my own, or learned in the military that help me understand that the vast-majority of complaints in regards to this games completion derives from ignorance in that anything and everything like this game is a lifecycle of version, revision, subversion, (re)version.

And maybe this is not-understood because SW never created their own launcher that makes this process look friendly. Instead, they relied on steam. They also did not make you pay a subscription. Its to late for them to back-out now unless they sell the product to another company. At any angle, it will be complete.

But; that is a ton on its own. Maybe the best-way to explain this common complaint is not an excuse or badger but rather knowledge about everything that every major program has to go through and endure during its life-span.  

Thats the source of this post, the source of it is not understanding innovation and development.

The main problem is this game mostly feels like a job in the end. Its fun in the beginning but just devolves into a mindless chore. But it doesn't help that it still has a lot of unfixed bugs that were here for a long time. Poorly implemented features. Nerfs that were not tested properly making the game more boring and grindy.  While mods seems to fix these major problems in more areas then just one.

[jrulie101]

16 minutes ago, LastSagas said:

The main problem is this game mostly feels like a job in the end. Its fun in the beginning but just devolves into a mindless chore. But it doesn't help that it still has a lot of unfixed bugs that were here for a long time. Poorly implemented features. Nerfs that were not tested properly making the game more boring and grindy.  While mods seems to fix these major problems in more areas then just one.

Then maybe the devs just need a new-office chair; a coffee pot at their desk, three monitors(if they don't have that already), less-social pressure, and more clients that can put this into perspective while they make at least 80k a year. Unlike most MMO's, they also forgot to include their very-own launcher for the game. Perhaps that will help the clients understand this game more too. Because in all games like this there is no-such thing as finished. 

version, revision, subversion, (re)version, revision, subversion, (re)version.... > and that is how programmers have careers. The activity of evolving the game has been shown on SW's part.

In that process; modification of the game via SDK counts as a subversion that can be taken as a revision. SDK's are generally produced after the revision process; which is where someone disagrees with the game as it is. That is why they do follow the mods to the game.

Mindless chore, describes "boring". All games get that way. When my wife is bored of world of Warcraft she skips her monthly membership fee. Timers really don't give us that luxury on this game. Talk to a tribe that you trust about inheriting your tribe. And then go back to cas-play for a while. Game has some architectural concepts in design that can challenge us and it can wear down our patience.
 

[ChargingParacerParacer]

1 hour ago, Lancelot said:

Single players can still changer their server configuration. Yes they don't get mods but they can adjust rates to make it easier for them still. So no they don't have to play the exact same way as official do.

 

I too would love to know the setting to be allowed to actually level flying mount speed on consoles.

1 hour ago, Joebl0w13 said:

What does that have to do with the modding community? To get right to the point here. This thread isn't about SP or flyers or any other nerfs/changes to the game.

It has plenty to do with the modding community. The modders figured out that the nerf needed to be an optional thing a month or 2 after it was introduced, WC still hasen't officially given such a change. The gist of OPs post was it's amazing what customers can fix for free when the company we all paid money for the product just can't seem to figure a lot of it out.

[LastSagas]

20 minutes ago, jrulie101 said:

Then maybe the devs just need a new-office chair; a coffee pot at their desk, three monitors(if they don't have that already), less-social pressure, and more clients that can put this into perspective while they make at least 80k a year. Unlike most MMO's, they also forgot to include their very-own launcher for the game. Perhaps that will help the clients understand this game more too. Because in all games like this there is no-such thing as finished. 

version, revision, subversion, (re)version, revision, subversion, (re)version.... > and that is how programmers have careers. The activity of evolving the game has been shown on SW's part.

In that process; modification of the game via SDK counts as a subversion that can be taken as a revision. SDK's are generally produced after the revision process; which is where someone disagrees with the game as it is. That is why they do follow the mods to the game.

Mindless chore, describes "boring". All games get that way. When my wife is bored of world of Warcraft she skips her monthly membership fee. Timers really don't give us that luxury on this game. Talk to a tribe that you trust about inheriting your tribe. And then go back to cas-play for a while. Game has some architectural concepts in design that can challenge us and it can wear down our patience.
 

1. Ark is not an MMO its multiplayer is more akin to Destiny where yes there's many players playing but there are limits on how many.

2. Yes, Ark has been evolving but it should be evolving at a much faster pace which proves quite worrisome. For example there some simple problems in the game. Such as the turret nerf where they just released with a band-aid fix that (even that was broken) ( and the dreaded Dino nerf that didn't even fix the problem but still made dinos weaker ).

3. This is a game, not a program. A program provides a service to the consumer to do something they want and yes usually they need to evolve to improve. On the other hand, a game is not a service but to be a past time to be enjoyed by the consumer it should need a drastic evolution to be enjoyed ( Perfect example Destiny 1 and 2 ) A game should not be considered "released"  when some features have health risks and others don't even work properly. I do get that things need major fixing but the only reason we are currently at this state is the devs  whack priorities.

4. Yes for sure but in WOW all of her stuff will be there when she gets back. While in Ark (except for single player) the player would lose all the time and effort  they put into the game thus becoming a mindless chore. For your fix suggestion well most tribes that will never work. It just wouldn't work.

 

 

[Esquire1980]

3 hours ago, LastSagas said:

Yes Wild Card made modding a thing but thats all they did. You don't get praised for just suppling the chief to make the cake the chief is for making it.  Anyways how much of these mods have actually been added to the base game ( Primitive Plus is a example but we all see that shipped sailed along time ago )

I don't believe I'd call the base game (with ALL these features it contains), the dev kit, the .ini code changes released, and/or the options in setting up a server a deal of "that's all they did", but you can, I guess, if you would like.  Without the base game and the dev kit, there simply wouldn't be a mods, period, to compare anything to.

I'm just not all that worried about what gets added to the base game via mods.  I've got my own cluster with 34 mods I'm running, currently and that is again, due to WC programming options to let me have my own cluster/servers.  And thanks to Zen's tutorials, I'm looking very much forward to making a mod or 20, myself.

Look at it this way.  You could have been playing SWG, bought the game for 75.00, paying a sub of $15.00 per/mo for the privilege, (where there were no mods, no .ini code, and no options), and had SOE do a CU, NGE, or C6CD on you with no alternative except to hit "cancel" and like it.  And if you were one of the few that decided to stay, seen the cancelation notice that we all got when they programmed themselves right out of a game and job.  Really wish I had the options there that I have here, I might still be playing SWG if I could of rolled back patch 9, CU, or NGE.  Personally, I've taken away some of the nerfs that ev1 here screams about in less than 5 minutes with the options that WC gives/gave me on my servers.

[LastSagas]

6 minutes ago, Esquire1980 said:

I don't believe I'd call the base game (with ALL these features it contains), the dev kit, the .ini code changes released, and/or the options in setting up a server a deal of "that's all they did", but you can, I guess, if you would like.  Without the base game and the dev kit, there simply wouldn't be a mods, period, to compare anything to.

I'm just not all that worried about what gets added to the base game via mods.  I've got my own cluster with 34 mods I'm running, currently and that is again, due to WC programming options to let me have my own cluster/servers.  And thanks to Zen's tutorials, I'm looking very much forward to making a mod or 20, myself.

Look at it this way.  You could have been playing SWG, bought the game for 75.00, paying a sub of $15.00 per/mo for the privilege, (where there were no mods, no .ini code, and no options), and had SOE do a CU, NGE, or C6CD on you with no alternative except to hit "cancel" and like it.  And if you were one of the few that decided to stay, seen the cancelation notice that we all got when they programmed themselves right out of a game and job.  Really wish I had the options there that I have here, I might still be playing SWG if I could of rolled back patch 9, CU, or NGE.  Personally, I've taken away some of the nerfs that ev1 here screams about in less than 5 minutes with the options that WC gives/gave me on my servers.

I know they put work in but for somereason they making these changes that are creating more problems that mods are fixing which includes the issue that was the problem originally.

[jrulie101]

15 minutes ago, LastSagas said:

1. Ark is not an MMO its multiplayer is more akin to Destiny where yes there's many players playing but there are limits on how many.

Ark may not be an MMORPG, it is simply not an RPG. It is still an MMO. MMO meaning Massive-Multiplayer-Online

 

[LastSagas]

Just now, jrulie101 said:

Ark may not be an MMORPG, it is simply not an RPG. It is still an MMO. MMO meaning Massive-Multiplayer-Online. 

It's not a MMO ( Need atleast 1000+ players on the same server ) more of a MMO lite ( Where yes its possible to play and meet with anyone on any PVP or PVE cluster you can never meet  alot of people at the same time ).

[Esquire1980]

16 minutes ago, LastSagas said:

I know they put work in but for somereason they making these changes that are creating more problems that mods are fixing which includes the issue that was the problem originally.

Nature of the beast, so to speak.  You add something, you tend to break something else.  I don't believe I've ever seen a game without bugs under these circumstances.

Comparing again to SWG, when SOE dropped the NGE on us, you could log in, maybe, but your toon couldn't move, couldn't combat, couldn't access the sub menus or windows.  All you could do was use local chat, not planet chat or even general chat.  That stayed around for about 3 days before SOE cleared that up.  They added a patch to musti, just before NGE and broke the entrance to beetlecave instance and that bug remained right up to the point the servers went off the air.  And at the point in time when SOE added the musti bugs, HK, beetlecave, etc, SOE Austin had over 71 developers working every day on nothing but SWG.  To be honest, I'm impressed that WC doesn't have more of this.

[LastSagas]

2 hours ago, Esquire1980 said:

Nature of the beast, so to speak.  You add something, you tend to break something else.  I don't believe I've ever seen a game without bugs under these circumstances.

Comparing again to SWG, when SOE dropped the NGE on us, you could log in, maybe, but your toon couldn't move, couldn't combat, couldn't access the sub menus or windows.  All you could do was use local chat, not planet chat or even general chat.  That stayed around for about 3 days before SOE cleared that up.  They added a patch to musti, just before NGE and broke the entrance to beetlecave instance and that bug remained right up to the point the servers went off the air.  And at the point in time when SOE added the musti bugs, HK, beetlecave, etc, SOE Austin had over 71 developers working every day on nothing but SWG.  To be honest, I'm impressed that WC doesn't have more of this.

True the game isn't broken but there are major bugs that are still prevalent today that should of been gone by now.

[DESTROYER]

8 hours ago, Esquire1980 said:

1st time I've EVER heard of a development company hiring modders.

I know it's off topic but I'll share some info.

 

A modder designed a map on a left 4 dead game and valve liked it so they hired the modder and made their map a dlc.

[Zederia]

3 hours ago, DESTROYER said:

I know it's off topic but I'll share some info.

 

A modder designed a map on a left 4 dead game and valve liked it so they hired the modder and made their map a dlc.

source?

[Joebl0w13]

3 hours ago, DESTROYER said:

I know it's off topic but I'll share some info.

 

A modder designed a map on a left 4 dead game and valve liked it so they hired the modder and made their map a dlc.

It’s not uncommon. Bungie hired a Skryrim modder as well. 

There was a guy doing Team Fortress 2 maps that was hired. Sumo Digital has hired modders. 

[DESTROYER]

1 hour ago, Joebl0w13 said:

It’s not uncommon. Bungie hired a Skryrim modder as well. 

There was a guy doing Team Fortress 2 maps that was hired. Sumo Digital has hired modders. 

Another instance of a modder being hired is valve hiring someone who modded half life 2.

[Esquire1980]

Nice to see that some other dev teams and studios are picking up the talent that is around making mods.  Some of these people put in quite a bit of time and sweat to get what they've done and there should be some acknowledgement and reward for their services.  Case in point here, S+, Ragnorok, and StarkWars 1 and 2.

This is my 1st attempt at playing anything other than a basic AAA MMORPG, outside of Skyrim and Fallout 4 which includes mods and modders, so I've not seen any of this.  In fact, the only MMORPG I've played that allowed mods at all is TESO and the lockboxes and monitization just about negates any advantages, for me at least.  Another large plus for me, no store, no monetization in ARK.  I've just about had it with pay walls and P2W, even P2W for PVE collectors while they call it "just cosmetics".

[DarthaNyan]

4 hours ago, DESTROYER said:

Another instance of a modder being hired is valve hiring someone who modded half life 2.

Well,  another instance of valve hiring modders would be them hiring WC3 modder (or rather map creator) that is then became its own game/genre.