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modders are doing better than devs improving the game!!


Jay89

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32 minutes ago, Hobgobblin247 said:

What coding experience do you have? Can you point me to your mod? Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting WC on this but put your time/effort where your mouth is

Im not talking about my experience the point is modders who code part time do things better then developers whos literal job is it make a game.

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1 hour ago, Zederia said:

people in general have jobs and don't want another one that they don't get paid for

I agree with this

Quote

Difficulty and fun have no correlation

But not with this

Things that are too easy are boring to me.  Boredom and fun are not directly antonyms, but they might as well be.  If something is boring, it typically isn't fun.  That said, grind isn't difficulty.  Grind is a game mechanic to give the appearance of difficulty through time investment.  I would have a much stronger sense of accomplishment at something that took little to do but was difficult to pull off.  If we look at the taming system, we can see a great example of this.  The current "Knock this dino out and then shove meat down its throat for 4 hours" system isn't difficult.  The hardest part is knocking it out, and all of the knockout tames have some form of trap you can use to make this a trivial matter as well.  I've also mentioned in another thread that "tames" behave more like domesticated live stock rather than tamed wild animals.  To understand the difference, you can simply look at domesticated dog behaviors vs tamed wolf behavior.  A tamed wolf is still a wild animal.  It has all the same behaviors as wild wolves.  The only difference is it has been befriended by a human and isn't going to try to kill and eat every human that comes its way.  It will obey orders by that human if that human manages to place itself as the alpha to that wolf.  If push comes to shove, though, that wolf will turn on the human, should survival be threatened.  Dogs, on the other hand have been domesticated.  They will often defend their owners to their own deaths.  When a dog's owner dies, the dog will typically grieve the death to the point that its own life may be at risk.  This is domestication.  It's a genetically passed change in behavior across a species.  If we look at the dinos that are "tamed", they exhibit the same behaviors as the domesticated animals.  After typing all that... I don't remember where I was going with that tangent....

Anyway,  I'd like to see taming methods that are less time consuming but more difficult to do.  At the same time, I would like to see other aspects of the game change in the same way.

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2 hours ago, jrulie101 said:

Ark Survival Evolved is an Original. There is no-cliché to this. Someone had to actually think hard about it. Nobody downloaded this from the GitHub. It was MADE.

I'm sorry, but no...  Wild Card downloaded Unreal Engine, loaded up the "Shooter Game Tutorial" project, and added their own assets to it.  They used a plugin available on the UE4 marketplace for player building.  The Dino AIs appear to be another plugin on the marketplace.  I'm not sure exactly what all was written by them specifically, but there's a lot that they just downloaded.  I can even link you to the building system plugin used.  It's been used in other titles too (Rust, for example).  Yes, the concept, story, and assets are original, but the meat/potatoes (the actual code) is not.

They didn't even change the name of the binary when they exported it...

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7 minutes ago, banggugyangu said:

I'm sorry, but no...  Wild Card downloaded Unreal Engine, loaded up the "Shooter Game Tutorial" project, and added their own assets to it.  They used a plugin available on the UE4 marketplace for player building.  The Dino AIs appear to be another plugin on the marketplace.  I'm not sure exactly what all was written by them specifically, but there's a lot that they just downloaded.  I can even link you to the building system plugin used.  It's been used in other titles too (Rust, for example).  Yes, the concept, story, and assets are original, but the meat/potatoes (the actual code) is not.

An origional; as in the idea not so much the fact they used unreal. Batman used unreal. Lol. I was talking about the concept, story, and assets. The hardest-part of the job for any-programmer and the reason why I still suck at life. lol. 

--> I suck at life, because the creation of content (not the mechanics, not the art, but the idea of which it is manifested from) is the hardest part about innovation, period. At least... I never got how that manifestation is done. I wish I would someday. I wish I could think of something... That is what I call origional as in origional thinking. Nobody downloaded the main idea VIA GitHub.

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41 minutes ago, Zederia said:

Entitled? I love how that word gets thrown around at dissenting opinions.

Entitled wasn't used because it's a dissenting opinion.  Entitled was used because there are plenty of options available already for them to customize things to their taste, but they choose to try and alter the game for everyone to suit their own personal situation instead.

Now I do understand that many of these folks believe that their suggestions would make the game better for everyone... but that is usually based purely on their own subjective experience, with little real effort made to understand the larger factors in play that have molded the game mechanics for the player base as a whole.

The hardest thing about getting player feedback is always sorting out suggestions that would benefit the overall game from those that only benefit a players personal play style.  In most cases, both types of suggestions are completely sincere... it's just that the latter group exhibits little awareness (or sometimes concern) beyond their own bubble of game play.  Never an easy thing to sort out objectively.

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6 minutes ago, banggugyangu said:

I'm sorry, but no...  Wild Card downloaded Unreal Engine, loaded up the "Shooter Game Tutorial" project, and added their own assets to it.  They used a plugin available on the UE4 marketplace for player building.  The Dino AIs appear to be another plugin on the marketplace.  I'm not sure exactly what all was written by them specifically, but there's a lot that they just downloaded.  I can even link you to the building system plugin used.  It's been used in other titles too (Rust, for example).  Yes, the concept, story, and assets are original, but the meat/potatoes (the actual code) is not.

They didn't even change the name of the binary when they exported it...

Actually the lead gameplay engineer (TRH) at WC has stated a few times that the game is written mostly around custom C++ and the engine barely resembles anything from UE4 anymore. 

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1 minute ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Actually the lead gameplay engineer (TRH) at WC has stated a few times that the game is written mostly around custom C++ and the engine barely resembles anything from UE4 anymore. 

As for gameplay, I can believe that. 

We must not forget the work in that engine that was performed by NVIDIA, ATI, AMD. The engine is huge just in what I would consider the proprietary software (as all engines will be). Physics, Math, Calculus... I can see those being highly altered. I don't know if a dev ever dares to step on the grounds of the proprietary hardware optimization stuff that is in one of those game engines. I look at it, say "hell... no...". lol.

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7 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

Entitled wasn't used because it's a dissenting opinion.  Entitled was used because there are plenty of options available already for them to customize things to their taste, but they choose to try and alter the game for everyone to suit their own personal situation instead.

Now I do understand that many of these folks believe that their suggestions would make the game better for everyone... but that is usually based purely on their own subjective experience, with little real effort made to understand the larger factors in play that have molded the game mechanics for the player base as a whole.

The hardest thing about getting player feedback is always sorting out suggestions that would benefit the overall game from those that only benefit a players personal play style.  In most cases, both types of suggestions are completely sincere... it's just that the latter group exhibits little awareness (or sometimes concern) beyond their own bubble of game play.  Never an easy thing to sort out objectively.

So slowing down oxygens was good? How about the turret nerf limiting players only 100 turrerts that make them so easily raidable.

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3 minutes ago, Zederia said:

Explain this: Why out of nowhere do we get major nerfs that just make things slower and slower, and that's supposed to be "beneficial" to the game? How can we enjoy something, it gets slashed and we're now supposed to "love" these now changes. More people cope than enjoy

These changes were not out of nowhere. They were a balance issue when the game was still early acces(as the disclaimer said it, gameplay was subject to change). Now for the solo players they improved argies so they are more suited for single players to farm by themselves.

If you don't like the changes you are more then welcome to join non-official. WC supports the modding community because they know some people want to play a different way. You can say all you want that you are only coping and you don't enjoy the game like it is right now but YOU made the DECISION to not join unofficial or single player.

 

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1 minute ago, Lancelot said:

These changes were not out of nowhere. They were a balance issue when the game was still early acces(as the disclaimer said it, gameplay was subject to change). Now for the solo players they improved argies so they are more suited for single players to farm by themselves.

If you don't like the changes you are more then welcome to join non-official. WC supports the modding community because they know some people want to play a different way. You can say all you want that you are only coping and you don't enjoy the game like it is right now but YOU made the DECISION to not join unofficial or single player.

 

What about console who even if they want to play single player still have to deal with the crap WC has given them.

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4 minutes ago, LastSagas said:

What about console who even if they want to play single player still have to deal with the crap WC has given them.

I think the modding community is still strong, I'm not sure of the history on Ragonrok or The Center. MMO's just have a hard time of fading and revisions are best-illustrated with subversions which modding empowers developers to create that subversion. They do manage to keep track of the mods going on here. I watch those get published frequently on the forums. 

WC has something planned for that community. Otherwise we would not be watched.

As for consoles, those are actually bottom-tier gaming rigs. You really think you can spend $400 for a top-end gaming machine? sure, its crap. I don't think we're gonna get much better until consumer hardware for gaming gets better in regards to consoles. consoles suck.

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7 minutes ago, LastSagas said:

What about console who even if they want to play single player still have to deal with the crap WC has given them.

Simple, they don't "have" to play the game at all. Why would they if they didn't like the "crap" WC gave them? I don't play any games I don't like. You can tweak the game extensively in SP and use admin commands to your heart's content. 

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1 hour ago, jrulie101 said:

I do not think that this is a matter of refusal but rather a matter of retrospect and it would be more explainable as this:

Ark has a Reedit page, Twitter, Facebook, and Reviews just like every other platform. Their developers get paid to produce content. The content that they produce has to be valuable to the client. Otherwise their is no job. Their is no studio, Their is no Ark. Therefore, while it was originally dev oriented so few-purchasers were developer inclined. Most purchase likely heard about this platform by another player. Some things that are evident of this is that (I've paid attention as one of the origional followers):

THE PLAYERS HAD STARTED TO CREATE A STRONG PUBLIC APPEARANCE
Kind of like this post, actually. Except they were doing this on YouTube, Reddit, and on Twitter. I've read a lot of frustration about the publicity from the support staff on steam. One such  Instance is such as all of the industrial cookers disappearing. The Right Hand actually made the notion that if it were entirely up to him then all of the servers would have been wiped and everybody would be back at square one for clean development. However, he also acknowledged and so did his support staff that ark has already created a player base...

[ Shorthand to reference post ]

 

11 minutes ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Simple, they don't "have" to play the game at all. Why would they if they didn't like the "crap" WC gave them? I don't play any games I don't like. You can tweak the game extensively in SP and use admin commands to your heart's content. 

Obviously they like it, The origional community of devs that worked with the SDK were out-bided by the players that want to play the game and wanted to play the game now while it was still in pre-release. I've rarely seen a game that got anti-cheat during its pre-release phases. I mean, Terratech is an example of one of those games that didn't have anti-cheat for the longest time.

There is a reason for this. Developers buy a game that has that much discount, get the framework for the game, and help complete the game for things like bug bounties, content development contests, and job opportunities. So publishers tend to procrastinate on anti-cheat until official release because we have to "Trace the Stack" with debuggers to identify and possibly repair the bugs in our mods. 

Its unique that anti-cheat came to this game in pre-release, but it shows that players were heavy on the game, more-so then the devs possibly could have been.

{ I hit the submit button on this  parts of a second after the moderator brought attention back to the OP. I left it here. }

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It's like GP said, the modders can laser focus on a single aspect of the game and do great work. I'm glad they have that option. It makes for a better game in general.

The devs are very open about how much they enjoy all the great work the modding community has done for Ark.

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14 minutes ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Simple, they don't "have" to play the game at all. Why would they if they didn't like the "crap" WC gave them? I don't play any games I don't like. You can tweak the game extensively in SP and use admin commands to your heart's content. 

So what letting flyers level speed or disabling a certain dino? Where are those options.

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2 minutes ago, LastSagas said:

So what letting flyers level speed or disabling a certain dino? Where are those options.

What does that have to do with the modding community? To get right to the point here. This thread isn't about SP or flyers or any other nerfs/changes to the game.

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4 hours ago, LastSagas said:

So ya your examples can be enjoyed with no mods what so ever but Ark isn't one of those games.

I enjoy official Ark no mods. 

I enjoy fighting bosses.

I enjoy the tek that I do have.

The end game isn't even here yet. There's another section of lore to be unveiled. 

The end game may never exist. It's not your run of the mill popcorn a to b to c game. I enjoy hunting dinosaurs, and finding awesome stats, and then combining those stats into one and then mutating those stats. That means the end game for that is very far away. 

I enjoy running the same caves over and over and testing my dino's limits in just daily adventures. If I still enjoy doing it, there's no end game for that.

I enjoy trading with people on a large scale community and cluster. As long as I'm producing stuff they want there's no end game for that.

Factually, it's you that doesn't enjoy Ark without mods. That's the entire sentence needed here. 

The great thing about Ark is there are mods for those who want them and not required for those who don't. 

Generally speaking, outside of my old legacy server, I'm never not on an active server having fun. Even when the game irks me, I come back because it is still a ton of fun whether that be because of my allies or just the things I am choosing to do. 

Unless the modders have figured out a fix for official server lag, there's nothing they are doing that I need to enjoy this game even if it is a cool concept. 

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17 minutes ago, jrulie101 said:

Its unique that anti-cheat came to this game in pre-release, but it shows that players were heavy on the game, more-so then the devs possibly could have been.

{ I hit the submit button on this  parts of a second after the moderator brought attention back to the OP. I left it here. }

I fully respect that, and thank you!  Just to shed some light on what you said though, consider that they decided to buck tradition and try to avoid a full wipe on release.  That decision rather necessitated the early adoption of anti-cheat software.

Sorry to interrupt, just a point of clarification.

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1 minute ago, Ranger1 said:

they decided to buck tradition and try to avoid a full wipe on release

except they did, the removed all support for the original servers, and created new ones. only running "legacy" to placate people they wanted to stay there, only to be shut down over time, and not even the promise that was given then either.

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7 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

I fully respect that, and thank you!  Just to shed some light on what you said though, consider that they decided to buck tradition and try to avoid a full wipe on release.  That decision rather necessitated the early adoption of anti-cheat software.

Sorry to interrupt, just a point of clarification.

Nice clarification; although the devs behind the mods that got installed on the platform never mind wipe before a game goes into official release which is also why players avoid purchasing games that are in pre-release. Its natural territory. You guys kind of dealt with tons of difficult situations in that both devs and players invested into the pre-release game which created a demand for players, demand for the security of their content. 

I understand and I can see that; still seemed circular in that it goes back to the point... heavy gamers bought this before it was ready despite the disclaimer. I mean, look at what happened to ark in the marketing sense. It did really well in its pre-release stages.

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