Stats Recovery from Breeding

[Woodsman]

So when u tame a dino its efficiency is usually lower than 100% but when u breed with it, stats like melee is passed on at 100%. Does this mean that the method u use to tame wild animals isnt important for some stats like melee?

example: if u have 3 wild animals with the same stats and tame one with kibble and one with mutton and also one with just raw meat, then breed with them will the same melee stat be passed on to the offspring for all three, even though the parents stats greatly differ?

 

 

[DarthaNyan]

You dont/cant recover bonus levels lost because of poor TE. So taming method does matter, a lot in fact.

Note: if your tame-in-process gets hit by something or you screwed up its TE somehow - it is better to wake it up and try again.

[DeweyDecimal]

12 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

You dont/cant recover bonus levels lost because of poor TE. So taming method does matter, a lot in fact.

Note: if your tame-in-process gets hit by something or you screwed up its TE somehow - it is better to wake it up and try again.

So I'm not crazy. 

I keep seeing people on these forums claim that breeding assumes 100% TE, or something to that effect, but I've never actually seen any evidence to support it, other than being told to check Ark Smart Breeder. 

The stats your Dino stands up with are the stats that will transfer to offspring. 

Period. 

[DarthaNyan]

19 minutes ago, DeweyDecimal said:

I keep seeing people on these forums claim that breeding assumes 100% TE, or something to that effect, but I've never actually seen any evidence to support it, other than being told to check Ark Smart Breeder. 

The stats your Dino stands up with are the stats that will transfer to offspring. 

Period. 

Those people are correct.

When your tame stands - it also receives after-tame stat multipliers that depend on TE as well. Most often it is melee, less often it is food (Quetzal, Daeodon).

When baby is born/hatches it gets stats (stat points spent in stats) from its parents, but assumes 100% TE for those additional multipliers.

[DeweyDecimal]

On 18/03/2018 at 1:46 AM, DarthaNyan said:

Those people are correct.

When your tame stands - it also receives after-tame stat multipliers that depend on TE as well. Most often it is melee, less often it is food (Quetzal, Daeodon).

When baby is born/hatches it gets stats (stat points spent in stats) from its parents, but assumes 100% TE for those additional multipliers.

But why do my crop-tames Hatch around the same level as their parents, with the same stats?

I've seen a lot of theory posted in these forums, but my experience has brought me to understand that the stats a Dino stands up with are the ones it passes to offspring. 

If that's not the case, then why don't these babies hatch better? 

[DarthaNyan]

3 hours ago, DeweyDecimal said:

but my experience has brought me to understand that the stats a Dino stands up with are the ones it passes to offspring. 

That is correct, unless mutation happens.

I'm not sure what cant you understand from my previous post. Your 1st gen babies should have like 0.1% or more melee better than tamed parents, or less (and thus unnoticeable) if you are playing on unofficial server with massively boosted rates.

https://ark.gamepedia.com/Creature_Stats_Calculation

[DeweyDecimal]

7 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

That is correct, unless mutation happens.

I'm not sure what cant you understand from my previous post. Your 1st gen babies should have like 0.1% or more melee better than tamed parents, or less (and thus unnoticeable) if you are playing on unofficial server with massively boosted rates.

https://ark.gamepedia.com/Creature_Stats_Calculation

I guess because I'm on officials, any gains are too small to see. 

I'm confused, I suppose, because I haven't seen any evidence that Taming Effectiveness affects babies, other than setting the base stats the offspring could inherit. 

Let's look at a hypothetical breeding line. 

Let's say I find a pair of 150 ankys in the wild. 

Let's also say that I accidentally punched them both a few times after they went down, reducing their effectiveness to 0%.

When they're finished taming, they'll stand up at 150. 

When I make an egg and Hatch it, the offspring might be better, say 175, if it takes the better stats, but it won't Hatch at 224+, as it would if I had perfect kibble tamed the parents. 

I guess that's where I'm confused, because the dinos I have that were tamed with low effectiveness don't Hatch offspring any stronger than the sum of it's parents. 

[DarthaNyan]

32 minutes ago, DeweyDecimal said:

When I make an egg and Hatch it, the offspring might be better, say 175, if it takes the better stats, but it won't Hatch at 224+, as it would if I had perfect kibble tamed the parents. 

 

On 3/17/2018 at 10:42 PM, DarthaNyan said:

You dont/cant recover bonus levels lost because of poor TE.

but in your example baby from these punched parents will have higher melee as if it were tamed at its level with 100% TE which restores additional multiplier.

 

For example (taken from ARK breeding study i wrote 2.5 years ago):

Punched trikes a few times before taming them:
Parent A: http://i.imgur.com/PiGzTX7.jpg
Parent B: http://i.imgur.com/21ViHNz.jpg
Egg: http://i.imgur.com/sK2WnYd.jpg
Baby: http://i.imgur.com/mHy7d0F.jpg

As you can see Baby got higher melee% than any of its parents'. 

[DonaldDuck]

I'm also curious about this.

 

There are 3 kinds of level for a dino. 

1. Lv 5-150 = WILD , max is 150

2. Bonus level that depends on TE , max is 74 <- THIS IS WHAT I AM CURIOUS , IS IT WILD LEVEL ?  If this is wild level which will boost BASE stats of a dino, then TE is important , if this is just generated because after tame there are bonus stats for hp/dmg/food, then TE is unimportant.

3. Domesticated Level , max is 71 

So a tamed dino will have a max level of 295 in total.

 

The wiki also doesn't explain that TE level whether it has extra wild points or not.

https://ark.gamepedia.com/Levels

 

I'll just tame something and take notes of its stas pre-tame, post-tame, TE, and make comparison to make sure..... 

[DarthaNyan]

54 minutes ago, DonaldDuck said:

Yes, TE doesn't matter for breeding stock, it only matters if that particular dino being tamed is also going to be used.

Please dont give incorrect/irrelevant answer to an already confused OP.
Question was if TE matters during taming and the answer is obviously "Yes", because amount of bonus levels it will get depends on TE.

[DonaldDuck]

1 hour ago, DarthaNyan said:

Please dont give incorrect/irrelevant answer to an already confused OP.
Question was if TE matters during taming and the answer is obviously "Yes", because amount of bonus levels it will get depends on TE.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but just so you know I posted not to give an incorrect answer on purpose but what I thought was right, just like you and everybody else, and it IS relevant.

(Oh and I edited my post not because of you but because I was unsure myself, and I just visited the forum then found out you're quoting my comment before I edited it)

[DarthaNyan]

5 minutes ago, DonaldDuck said:

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but just so you know I posted not to give an incorrect answer on purpose but what I thought was right, just like you and everybody else, and it IS relevant.

(Oh and I edited my post not because of you but because I was unsure myself, and I just visited the forum then found out you're quoting my comment before I edited it)

Nice tsundere post.

2 hours ago, DonaldDuck said:

2. Bonus level that depends on TE , max is 74 <- THIS IS WHAT I AM CURIOUS , IS IT WILD LEVEL ?  If this is wild level which will boost BASE stats of a dino, then TE is important , if this is just generated because after tame there are bonus stats for hp/dmg/food, then TE is unimportant.

They are added to and counted as wild levels.

[DonaldDuck]

1 hour ago, DarthaNyan said:

  They are added to and counted as wild levels.

Figured it out after taming a test doed lv 10 and compare it's pre tame and post tame stats. The wild lvl up points got increased post tame,  so yea TE does matter for the extra wild levels.

 

----------------------------------

Doed is weird the HP is lowered by around 10% from pre-tame to post tame, on top of that there is also -4% for aberrant version. In this test doed lv 10, from 1020 hp pre-tame ended up 881.3 post tame. 

 

[DarthaNyan]

36 minutes ago, DonaldDuck said:

Doed is weird the HP is lowered by around 10% from pre-tame to post tame

https://ark.gamepedia.com/Doedicurus#Base_Stats_and_Growth

Note the TBHM 90% (Tamed Base HP) value on HP. Several "tanky' creatures have this as a part of balancing passes.

[DeweyDecimal]

12 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

 

but in your example baby from these punched parents will have higher melee as if it were tamed at its level with 100% TE which restores additional multiplier.

 

For example (taken from ARK breeding study i wrote 2.5 years ago):

Punched trikes a few times before taming them:
Parent A: http://i.imgur.com/PiGzTX7.jpg
Parent B: http://i.imgur.com/21ViHNz.jpg
Egg: http://i.imgur.com/sK2WnYd.jpg
Baby: http://i.imgur.com/mHy7d0F.jpg

As you can see Baby got higher melee% than any of its parents'. 

So there's the evidence. Thank you for that. 

I think I'm starting to get why I've never seen it, breeding mostly kibble tamed dinos, the increase from, let's say 96% to 100% is negligible when it comes to how it affects the stats. (IE less than 0.1%)

Next question, is when you say that extra little bonus 'mostly' goes into melee, is it really species specific, or will you get the odd boost to other stats? 

[DarthaNyan]

7 hours ago, DeweyDecimal said:

Next question, is when you say that extra little bonus 'mostly' goes into melee, is it really species specific, or will you get the odd boost to other stats? 

Species specific. Melee boost applies to almost all species with few exceptions (for example: Giga is an exception - it gets flat reduction but no TE-dependent bonus/malus), some species have it higher than others.

You can see these values for every creature on the wikia: in the base stat table flat reduction is listed as "ADD" bonus, TE-dependent one as "MULT".

[Palenor]

On 3/18/2018 at 4:46 AM, DarthaNyan said:

When your tame stands - it also receives after-tame stat multipliers that depend on TE as well. Most often it is melee, less often it is food (Quetzal, Daeodon).

When baby is born/hatches it gets stats (stat points spent in stats) from its parents, but assumes 100% TE for those additional multipliers.

What explains the phenomenon of when you PT a 150 Rex and say it has Melee of 347 when it stands up, but when you breed it the offspring has Melee of 349 instead? And no it's not from the other parent with lower melee.

Have seen this happen several times in our Rex lines.

[DarthaNyan]

3 minutes ago, Palenor said:

What explains the phenomenon of when you PT a 150 Rex and say it has Melee of 347 when it stands up, but when you breed it the offspring has Melee of 349 instead? And no it's not from the other parent with lower melee.

Have seen this happen several times in our Rex lines.

"Perfect tame" as people call them are better described "best players can achieve" and that doesnt mean they have 100% TE when they stand up which is corrected on offspring resulting in higher melee.

Rexes have an additional bonus of 7% (unaffected by TE) and multiplicative bonus of 17.6% (affected by TE) to melee they get upon taming:

349 melee (or rather 349.3 as shown in game) is (349.3/1.176 - 7 - 100)/5 = 38 points in melee.
If it stood up with 347% then it had about (347/297) - 1 = 0.16835 multiplier applied or 16.835%. Compared to 17.6% of 100% it is 95.65% TE.

[Palenor]

2 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

"Perfect tame" as people call them are better described "best players can achieve" and that doesnt mean they have 100% TE when they stand up which is corrected on offspring resulting in higher melee.

Rexes have an additional bonus of 7% (unaffected by TE) and multiplicative bonus of 17.6% (affected by TE) to melee they get upon taming:

349 melee (or rather 349.3 as shown in game) is (349.3/1.176 - 7 - 100)/5 = 38 points in melee.
If it stood up with 347% then it had about (347/297) - 1 = 0.16835 multiplier applied or 16.835%. Compared to 17.6% of 100% it is 95.65% TE.

So it kind of does pick up the lost values in offspring. Just at a low scale when near 100% TE vs. PT available at the time it was tamed.(Varies depending on if it was tamed at X1,X2 etc. Taming speeds)

[DeweyDecimal]

@DarthaNyan

I finally saw it with my own two eyes on my own dinos. 

A baby bear who's tamed mother's melee was 329.7, popped with 331.1

I'm guessing it was a significant increase because the mother had a strong melee roll in the wild, right? A lower melee roll ought to have yielded a lesser increase. If I've come to understand it correctly.