discussion Main traders/breeders question

[ZenRowe]

@Fieromyr
It turns out a mod of this nature is already in progress called "Dino House". I would check out this mod authors workshop periodically to catch when he releases it:
Blitzfire911's workshop

 

[Lancelot]

I don't consider myself a big breeder but I do have a pretty decent line of megatherium that I have traded to some of the names i see here.

When the new servers started I had the idea to start my own line, breed it with a bunch of mutations and then sell it.

However tame cap came much sooner then I expected( I started on ragnarok).

I then transfered some over to the island to make my life easier. It worked for a while, I was able to combine all my stats together before that server also hit tame cap.

I decided to sell my non-mute/low mute line because I wasn't able to breed as much as I wanted.

Breeding 20 females at a time also meant I had to kill 20 dinos and then I would have to raise 20 babies even if they were crap just because I had to keep slots for future breeds.

Now I'm selling them hoping I get to buy mutated stats at a later date.

 

[KazukiMar]

My answer is:

I prefer clean bred dinos so i can stack stat mutations or create a color line without limitations from other mutations.

[Tattare]

I didn't read the walls of text but most current breeders are wrong.   The number of mutations do not matter as long as one parental tree has room for mutations.   I can purchase the latest Rex off the trade forms that has hundreds of thousands  of mutations and then mate it with my tamed level 5 Rex.   The off spring will then have all of those mutations pushed off to one parental line, leaving the other parental line at 0.  I can then keep breeding mutations as the number of mutations is not capped.   Meaning if I transfer hp, Stam, wgt or melee to a clean male on 1 side and mate a army of abomination females I will get mutations faster than the Aryan breeders with their precious clean tree.

You guys have been doing it wrong.   Pickles here to help you.

[bigfishrob]

31 minutes ago, Tattare said:

I didn't read the walls of text but most current breeders are wrong.   The number of mutations do not matter as long as one parental tree has room for mutations.   I can purchase the latest Rex off the trade forms that has hundreds of thousands  of mutations and then mate it with my tamed level 5 Rex.   The off spring will then have all of those mutations pushed off to one parental line, leaving the other parental line at 0.  I can then keep breeding mutations as the number of mutations is not capped.   Meaning if I transfer hp, Stam, wgt or melee to a clean male on 1 side and mate a army of abomination females I will get mutations faster than the Aryan breeders with their precious clean tree.

You guys have been doing it wrong.   Pickles here to help you.

U reduce u possible mutation chance by half we are all aware of infinite stat stacking bud.

[Sideswipe]

39 minutes ago, Tattare said:

I didn't read the walls of text but most current breeders are wrong.   The number of mutations do not matter as long as one parental tree has room for mutations.   I can purchase the latest Rex off the trade forms that has hundreds of thousands  of mutations and then mate it with my tamed level 5 Rex.   The off spring will then have all of those mutations pushed off to one parental line, leaving the other parental line at 0.  I can then keep breeding mutations as the number of mutations is not capped.   Meaning if I transfer hp, Stam, wgt or melee to a clean male on 1 side and mate a army of abomination females I will get mutations faster than the Aryan breeders with their precious clean tree.

You guys have been doing it wrong.   Pickles here to help you.

Hi pickles, every competent breeder is aware of how mutation stacking works, however it is also well known that if you have more of a chance at getting a new mutation if both parents are under the 20/20 limit. By only having one parent capable of mutating your offspring you effectively cut off half your chances of mutations. However, if you are happy with half the chance of a mutation then go for it!

[YellowJacket]

Basically what the guys above me said, although IF the chance for a mutation thats stated on the wiki is even remotely right (which I doubt, but I tend to be unlucky usually), even with the effectively halfed chance with 499 clean fems and 1 male you'd get 1 mut in every stat each batch of eggs.

That being said imo that way of breeding for mutations, regarding the tame cap, is completely retarded.

 

Point still stands though, that the general mutation thing is a bit of an issue with the cap, everyone is holding onto all clean females they somehow can just to use them for mutation breeding later on.

[steveclifton1]

i mainly breed for the stats,  and imo i belive that a perfect fix would be to make it so you could make any kibble with any egg , but the ingredients mixed with the egg determines the type it will become , like maybe mix  berrys for herbivores and maybe  meats for carnovoirs.  with a special ingredient that drops off of dinos or trees or weeds to determine what they will be come,  

as far as the dino cap , it just doesnt make sense , you make a game that you have to breed up stats on dinos to take out end game dinos, and must have 20 of them to do this.  and everyone that wants to do this will have to do the same, that is promoting mass dinos imo.  and with the dino cap in effect on most servers now , anyone that joins pretty much will never have the chance to do end game stuff.

sorry if its a ramble

[Tattare]

 

7 minutes ago, YellowJacket said:

Point still stands though, that the general mutation thing is a bit of an issue with the cap, everyone is holding onto all clean females they somehow can just to use them for mutation breeding later on.

and while those guys sit with those dinos with 472% melee 525% exists.   The time for clean mutations is over unless your that one guy with the 525% and ur going to sell 484.5% next or 496.3%

[bigfishrob]

2 hours ago, Tattare said:

 

and while those guys sit with those dinos with 472% melee 525% exists.   The time for clean mutations is over unless your that one guy with the 525% and ur going to sell 484.5% next or 496.3%

It aint just rexes bud. Honestly we did all alpha everything with tame stat rexes. 11.2k hp and 414 melee including ascencions. 

[Sideswipe]

2 hours ago, YellowJacket said:

even with the effectively halfed chance with 499 clean fems and 1 male you'd get 1 mut in every stat each batch of eggs.

Each egg individually rolls for the mutation check so no, you could mate the 499 fems and the 1 monster mutant male, get 500 eggs and still not get any new mutations sadly.

[Danno334]

I am a very small breeder / trader but i am in the trading forums all the time. I personally could care less about clean lines so long as i can get the stats i want. I breed for stats only and colours to me are a waste of time ( personal opinion).

As far as egg farms go for kibble, yes they add tremendously to the server cap situation but how many tribes have a lot of eggs layers hanging around just to feed Daeodons for boss fights?

Put the blame where  the blame should go for server caps, on the developers, not the players. The players with 100 ankys or 200 dodoes are not to blame for the server caps. Those players are just playing within the limits set down by the developers, and no one can blame them for doing anything wrong. The problem is the lack of servers for PvE and the way the developers have set the game limits.  

[Jacira]

I'm not a big breeder but I understand the desire to only trade with clean lines. Not only because the new official server clusters are still in their infancy but also because with these new events now like Valentine's day and Christmas. Wild Card are giving everyone a chance to have color mutations on dinos without the actual mutation count it would normally accrue. This gives big breeders the chance to breed very good clean lines and still have the colours to boot.

It also means that once they have optimized each line. They can then keep bumping uglies and truly optimize stat mutations without having to worry about say, a magenta color mutation being attached to a food or oxygen stat.

[ZeroSeconds]

2 hours ago, Danno334 said:

Put the blame where  the blame should go for server caps, on the developers, not the players. The players with 100 ankys or 200 dodoes are not to blame for the server caps. Those players are just playing within the limits set down by the developers, and no one can blame them for doing anything wrong. The problem is the lack of servers for PvE and the way the developers have set the game limits. 

I have tried this on several occassions (respectfully and sometimes with a bit more with anger), but unfortunatly I always get the same formatted response from tickets "I'm a player too bla bla... compasion... I will do my utter best bla bla.. and tell the developers!" Now 2 years later of giving feedback I still see some of the problems ingame. So it is safe to say that the developers are not going to solve this problem. After 2 years of feedback I have never had an official awnser in a Q&A, in the mail or something (somehow only the positive questions end up there). Just to give you a comparison: After 6 months of playing, and reporting some bugs and glitches, for the largest MMORPG (runescape) I was invited to become a player moderator and I got awnsered on every single ticket (been event coördinator for 1+ year with them). For PUBG I got a response within 1 week, on mail that was 2 pages long >.<, and moreover every single point in my mail got fixed in the next update (vaulting glitches, walking through walls on some spots etc.) 

Having this said my next attempt is to discuss it with the community myself and see what we can do as a community. Let's be honest here most of us in this topic have 2.000+ hours invested in the game and the core game is just awesome. Most people that I tagged have quitted (including myself) for 3+ months, yet we all came back. With the community we have we really do have 2 options. 

option 1: We solve it as a community (which will be hard) 

option 2: We get every single person together that we know in Ark (should be about 500-1000 players) and just spam tickets / Q&A's till we get awnsers. 

 

I remember there were some huge riots in other games after some updates etc. (which got fixed right after), these were 1500-2000 players spamming resulting in crashing the servers, take a look xD:

Spoiler

 

 

Basicly my point is that we can all express our disagreement to Wild Card individually and can be ignored/shoved under the table, BUT when you have 1000+ players all of a sudden saying the same thing, it's a whole different story.

Edit: Quote: "we PAY, we SAY"

[Jacira]

13 hours ago, Fieromyr said:

Idea:

Implement a Egg Farm Storage Vault.

One Per Tribe Per Server

Limit it to a Set Number of Slots.

Add a way to put food into it.

Decay Timer 8 Days as Usual for Dinos

If the Vault is Refreshed,  so are the Dinos.

Remove these dinos from tame cap/tribe cap.  (Just as obelisk storage does already)

 

Benefits:

No more lag from mass egg farm structures.

Removes probably a thousand or more dinos from every server's tame cap.

Improves performance of servers as they don't have to render any part of the dinos and just have to accept information from a separate server. (I'm assuming Obelisk Storage is a separate server)

Quality of Life;  Feeding is a simpler task for Tribes,  those who have jobs,  families,  less time to play,  would appreciate this change.

Facts:

Obelisk Storage is a temporary thing currently for moving items and dinos between servers.

Spoil Timers still apply to items in Obelisk Storage.

Food Drain still applies to dinos in Obelisk Storage.

Or maybe they could just turn the egglayinterval up in the .ini files and then make taming a creature more rewarding for laying eggs. You said it yourself, the kibble system works and is done great, it's just the servers. So why not just improve the efficiency of mate boosting and get rid of the oviraptor's wandering ability? Or maybe do some TLC on the oviraptor and get rid of mate boosting bonus for laying eggs? Maybe the more females you have around a single male, the less of an affect it has for laying eggs and mutations? I would personally like it if they changed it so that only one male and one female needs to be tamed to get all the eggs you could want. Because as it stands the game is built around having tames so much so that we are forced to tame more dinos to lay more eggs to tame more dinos. That is the issue we have to address when it comes to tame cap and egging.

Despite all this I still believe from my own experiences that mutation and stat hoarding has a much bigger impact on tame cap then the egg farms. And that the above method wouldn't solved any of that. Therefore that is where I believe your egg farm storage vault idea would be handy. But that's a lot more complicated so I don't have anything to add to that lol.

The one thing none of this addresses however is a good chunk of why servers are always at tame cap. People's greediness and griefing (mass breeding trash on purpose to troll). I've seen people selling slots on their servers and I've seen someone Mass Breed Phiomias when the server was only one spot under tame cap so that they could inflate it so far over cap that no one could breed anymore. Whichever way Wild Card choose to fix the tame cap problem, that type of behaviour is what ultimately needs to be addressed.

"Last but not least,  Wildcard needs some kind of Microtransactions or Sub benefits.  They deserve it and that would help them drastically."

^ This I agree with you 100% and would gladly pay it if it meant we could get a better experience while playing their gorgeous game ^

[YellowJacket]

5 hours ago, Sideswipe said:

Each egg individually rolls for the mutation check so no, you could mate the 499 fems and the 1 monster mutant male, get 500 eggs and still not get any new mutations sadly.

Yes I know every egg rolls individually, I was talking as an average expectation value, as the mutation roll on eggs is a binomial probably calculation.

Ofc with bad luck you could hatch 10000 eggs without a single mutation.

[Cheels]

I'm a little on the fence over which circumstances I buy mutated/unmutated dinosaurs. For example my boss rexes, the ones i have currently probably have over 350 mutations on each side, but I only use them for one purpose - to farm boss runs. I don't see them as dinosaurs I breed to optimise, since they perform the task they already do suitably. 

Farming dinosaurs - quetzals, therizino, mammoths, giga, doedicurus, ankys etc - the better stats I can acquire, the quicker I can perform medial tasks such as farming resources, whether it is meat or stone/wood, the quicker i can return to playing the game. So another circumstance I wouldn't be too bothered about mutations and try to gain when I can. 

 

For me personally, un-mutated dinosaurs increase my end product potential. If I can get as high stats as possible without mutations, thus allowing me to offer a better end product - I can then either breed repeatedly to hopefully fill a gap in the market (for example having the highest stat on a dinosaur on the market) or can offer clean lines to customers. From my experiences, little or no mutations definitely makes a sale more encouraging to the buyer.

Then there is dinosaurs I class as my "Interests, or hobbies". Every breeder probably has a few breeding lines they take priority with or often hunt for their best stats available for and actively search out improvements.

Yes there is some dino stats I wouldn't sell, but this is mainly since I have seen reluctance from other sellers in situations to share their own. I keep these dinosaurs aside as "Leverage" in a way, to offer tricky or difficult traders into making a deal. By keeping my rarer mutations more exclusive, it definitely will help secure a deal on my end. 

 

However - i'm not too sure if people are more willing to trade stats etc, if that would be a possible solution for the tame cap. There is a large difference in opinion of the value of certain dinosaurs/stats and I feel bridging it between some traders on the forum might be too difficult an obstacle to overcome for it to be viable. I have always tried to price my dinosaurs on the lower end of the pricing range - encouraging myself to sell "many eggs/dinos at a lower price" than "fewer at a higher price". Which hopefully has given buyers the potential to step into the trading market and create a foothold. However I often see trading posts where players are selling similar or the same dinosaurs for a higher premium.

[HOSS602]

Really Like the Topic Zero thanks for starting it.    BTW to have these problems we all have played this game way too much. 

I had a couple of thoughts while reading through this i wanted to throw out there for feed back.

As far as Kibble/egger dinos. Why not make it to where tamed don't drop non-fertilized eggs. The idea is to get us out on the map and out of our bases anyway. Would give newer players a way into to trade with  the more established as we all would have to be chasing parasaurs around. Also would create alot more in server communities as we would all have the same needs. Hopefully creating a more open and less guarded environment. I too had a similar experience in legacy (community kibble farms used to work).  I would love to see the community  return to those  everyone help everyone days.  As we tend to forget this is PLAYERS vs. ENVIRONMENT (pve).

As far as the larger breeding population question. Why not set up designated breeding servers. You could disable certain features on those servers (boss fights/caves/ drops maybe?) which could increase performance enough to accommodate some additional dinos. It would bring the breeders closer together and hopefully cut down on some of the redundant breeding as people talked more and cross tribe breeding increased. Then we could bring back our end results to our home servers to use or trade. 

Another I'm sure less popular solution would be individual dino limits per player. So each player could only own, 10 ankys or 20 rexes tops  on a server and they were capped individually. And would lose the ability to imprint or transfer other imprinted in until  you culled your numbers down. 

Just my 2 cents , curious to hear everyone's opinion. 

 

[TheConstructor]

2 hours ago, HOSS602 said:

As far as Kibble/egger dinos. Why not make it to where tamed don't drop non-fertilized eggs. The idea is to get us out on the map and out of our bases anyway. Would give newer players a way into to trade with  the more established as we all would have to be chasing parasaurs around. Also would create alot more in server communities as we would all have the same needs. Hopefully creating a more open and less guarded environment. I too had a similar experience in legacy (community kibble farms used to work).  I would love to see the community  return to those  everyone help everyone days.  As we tend to forget this is PLAYERS vs. ENVIRONMENT (pve).

I like this idea about wild dinos laying eggs for kibbles. Would be fun!

[Palenor]

On 3/8/2018 at 2:26 PM, Fieromyr said:

A solution of the sort for breeding/egg farms could bring back tons of players who quit over the tame cap.

Anyone who quit when the tame cap was put in place would not come back with these changes.

That is not the single reason anyone with that much time vested into ARK would have quit over.

[Migol]

It was already mentioned, but one of the big problems IMO are the tribes that "park" dinos on a server.    They don't interact, they don't tame, breed, trade, or do anything that contributes to the server.    They just take up cap space, logging on once a week or so to feed.      This needs to be stopped, I'd strongly suggest some kind of limits on how many dinos can be transferred to a single server within a set timeframe.     I'm fine with cross server trading, and say 10 dinos being transferred in a single day to a server is perfectly ok.        500 dinos and enough preconstructed walls/ceilings/gates for a storage base?    That should raise one helluva flag.

[Imlostbud]

Thanks for the good read, really helpful.

[ZeroSeconds]

I was thinking of making a forum tribe and invite some main breeders in to discuss a topic in private regarding breeding, bloodlines, etc. 

Would you guys be open to that? 

[Oli4]

1 hour ago, ZeroSeconds said:

I was thinking of making a forum tribe and invite some main breeders in to discuss a topic in private regarding breeding, bloodlines, etc. 

Would you guys be open to that? 

Quite a few big breeders aren't that active on the forums(at least a couple i know) so you'll always have people doing the same stuff

[Sideswipe]

I’d be interested. If only for the networking capabilities