Pre tame stats question.

[Grandta]

So I want to get into breeding good Dino's and set a limit of not taming anything that doesn't have atleast 30 points in one stat.

Currently I am taming Direwolfs and won't tame it if it doesn't have one of these stats.

Health   2350

 Stamina    1050

Oxygen    600

Food   4900

Weight    275

Melee 254
 

All of them are 30 points into one stat so if a wolf doesn't have one of those when I knock it out, I kill it and move on.

 

My question is though, is 30 points into one stat a good start point or should I be looking higher for ones with 35-40 stats in one of them?

[DarkSoul996]

Personally I wouldn't judge any dino based on pre-tame stats providing it's a decent level i.e 130+. Take the direwolf if you knock out a 130 and perfect kibble tame it, it will gain 62 levels on official settings. That's 62 levels that could go into a desirable stat. Where the bonus levels go is as much of a roll  of the dice as the pre-tame stats and could change a terrible looking pre-tame into a beast post-tame.

[isu]

Yes, its good to start with 30 points or higher for dino with 7 stats, with flyers you can rise it to 33-35 points. 

This is good method to find good Dna for  dino, which is not currently needed. 

But if you need good dino asap, you can just tame some good level and look on his after tame. Top level dinos are getting 70-74 levels after tame, by average its rise by 10-12 levels to your stat. 

So you can look on your stats on that 1 dino you tamed and just deduct 10-12 points and these are your values or higher, which your next dinos should have before tame.

[Thorium]

1 hour ago, DarkSoul996 said:

Personally I wouldn't judge any dino based on pre-tame stats providing it's a decent level i.e 130+. Take the direwolf if you knock out a 130 and perfect kibble tame it, it will gain 62 levels on official settings. That's 62 levels that could go into a desirable stat. Where the bonus levels go is as much of a roll  of the dice as the pre-tame stats and could change a terrible looking pre-tame into a beast post-tame.

If you want to breed you have to look into pre-tame stats or you waste a lot of time taming junk dinos.

You need to get lucky two times. First with the pre-tame level distribution and second time with the post-tame level distribution. If one of the both chances you get unlucky, it's junk. So if you see you got unlucky on the first step (pre-tame) you can't get a good breeder in the second step.

[Grandta]

1 hour ago, DarkSoul996 said:

Personally I wouldn't judge any dino based on pre-tame stats providing it's a decent level i.e 130+. Take the direwolf if you knock out a 130 and perfect kibble tame it, it will gain 62 levels on official settings. That's 62 levels that could go into a desirable stat. Where the bonus levels go is as much of a roll  of the dice as the pre-tame stats and could change a terrible looking pre-tame into a beast post-tame.

But wouldn't it be better to have higher pre-tame for the possibility of a higher post-tame

 

I mean if you had two wolf's 

Wolf 1 with 10 points in melee

Wolf 2 with 12 points in melee

Let's pretend that all points go into melee(using low numbers for simplicity sake)So extra two melee points go into both.

Wolf 1 with 12 points in melee

Wolf 2 with 14 points in melee

Wouldn't the higher stat be more desirable for the chance of getting everything into that stat?

 

[DarthaNyan]

15 minutes ago, Grandta said:

But wouldn't it be better to have higher pre-tame for the possibility of a higher post-tame

 

I mean if you had two wolf's 

Wolf 1 with 10 points in melee

Wolf 2 with 12 points in melee

Let's pretend that all points go into melee(using low numbers for simplicity sake)So extra two melee points go into both.

Wolf 1 with 12 points in melee

Wolf 2 with 14 points in melee

Wouldn't the higher stat be more desirable for the chance of getting everything into that stat?

 

Theoretically and statistically it would be better, BUT thats only if you have unlimited supply of high level dinos readily available to tame.

In reality you want to take all the chances you can get because the supply is very unsteady: it may take sometimes days until you find that elusive max level (quetz for example), then roll a dice on its pre-tame stats, then roll a dice on its post-tame stats.

[Grandta]

26 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

Theoretically and statistically it would be better, BUT thats only if you have unlimited supply of high level dinos readily available to tame.

In reality you want to take all the chances you can get because the supply is very unsteady: it may take sometimes days until you find that elusive max level (quetz for example), then roll a dice on its pre-tame stats, then roll a dice on its post-tame stats.

I tame only high Dino's on the centre now, better stream of high levels and just got a rex with 48 points in food post tame.

[yekrucifixion187]

I am with OP here. I rarely tame anything unless it has 30 points in a desired stat. It gives you your best chance at a high breedable stat, conserves kibble, conserves time. often times it still doesn't work out. I downed a 145 Argy with 35 points in weight on 1x. with an average stat roll it should of got me to 46 points in weight which would best my current 45. RNG did not favor me and only gave me 4 points into weight. 21 kibble down. Now I knocked out several others with 30 points, 29 points, 28 points. If I tame each of them at a cost of 20-22 kibble I go through my supply way too rapidly. 

So my rule of thumb. 

If 1x taming I only tame something if the average stat roll will surpass my current points. 

If 2x I will tame any 30+ point in a desired stat.

If 3x+ taming I'll tame anything that dododex lists as having a high pre-tame stat. 

I found this method works very well from a conservation view point though it does have the draw back of taking longer to get what you seek. 

[SingleSidedPCB]

I'm of the firm belief that pre-tame stats mean nothing. I stopped even paying attention to them years ago. The only stats that matter are the ones when it wakes up tamed.

I had an interesting conversation on reddit awhile back with someone that said, based on the dev kit, point distribution is weighted and there is a window of 5%-25%.  That means a 224 perfect tame cant have less than 11.2 (not sure if that would round up or down) points or more than 56 points in a single stat. Checking the point distribution on every 140,145 and 150 dino I've tamed in my smart breeding library, i see 7%-25% so i believe it.

Also, based on my personal experience and observations point distribution in order of most likely to least likely goes (wasted)speed, Food,Oxygen,Weight,Stam,Health,Melee.

Here's a pre-tame / post-tame comparison of a 150 yuty.

Health+11 Stam+13 Oxy+19 Food+7 Weight+8 Melee+12 Speed+4

Highest gain was oxygen, Lowest gain was melee lowest gain was infact speed...but there's (still) no way to correlate the pre-tame with the post-tame stats..

[invincibleqc]

@SingleSidedPCB Your wild stats are not possible. At least, the melee is not. A level 1 has 100% melee and each points allocated into it are 5% so I'm not sure where you got your 308.1 from (which would be 42 points at 310% anyways).

[SingleSidedPCB]

5 minutes ago, invincibleqc said:

@SingleSidedPCB Your wild stats are not possible. At least, the melee is not. A level 1 has 100% melee and each points allocated into it are 5% so I'm not sure where you got your 308.1 from (which would be 42 points at 310% anyways).

Ah, you are correct.. Ark smart breeding exported the "breedable" stats back into the extractor tab, even though it is saved as a Wild dino. i guess that's a bug in smart breeding. I'll edit my post and fix it.

[Thorium]

5 hours ago, invincibleqc said:

@SingleSidedPCB Your wild stats are not possible. At least, the melee is not. A level 1 has 100% melee and each points allocated into it are 5% so I'm not sure where you got your 308.1 from (which would be 42 points at 310% anyways).

There are exceptions to the 5% rule. Quetzal for example has less.

[Thorium]

6 hours ago, SingleSidedPCB said:

I'm of the firm belief that pre-tame stats mean nothing. I stopped even paying attention to them years ago. The only stats that matter are the ones when it wakes up tamed.

Highest gain was oxygen, Lowest gain was melee lowest gain was infact speed...but there's (still) no way to correlate the pre-tame with the post-tame stats..

I don't really understand what you mean with "but there's (still) no way to correlate the pre-tame with the post-tame stats."

How it works is pretty simple: You got levels distributed pre-tame and the post-tame levels are distributed on top of them. They are not rerolled. This is faily easy to test, just tame something and keep it at only +1 level with efficiency and then see that only one stat goes only one level up.

Also what the guy said with min 11 levels is wrong. My worst 150 tame had 6 levels in one stat.

[SingleSidedPCB]

2 hours ago, Thorium said:

There are exceptions to the 5% rule. Quetzal for example has less.

What stat(s) would a Quetz have less than 5% point distribution in? I play with classic flyers, so i have no data on the "nerfed" flyers.

2 hours ago, Thorium said:

I don't really understand what you mean with "but there's (still) no way to correlate the pre-tame with the post-tame stats."

How it works is pretty simple: You got levels distributed pre-tame and the post-tame levels are distributed on top of them. They are not rerolled. This is faily easy to test, just tame something and keep it at only +1 level with efficiency and then see that only one stat goes only one level up.

Also what the guy said with min 11 levels is wrong. My worst 150 tame had 6 levels in one stat.

I understand that stats aren't re-rolled (don't know why you thought i didn't?), my point was that just because 1 stat has 20 points and another has 30 pre-tame, doesn't mean anything. for all we know post-tame that 20 could become 40 and that 30 could become 31.

Out of the 150-ish sets of dino stats i have in my Ark Smart Breeding library ranging from levels 130-150 (194-224) the lowest points i have are 15 in weight on a 130(194) mammoth (7.7%), and the highest i have is 54 in oxygen on a 145(219) yuty(24.7%). I only save stats for potential breeders, but I've looked at stats on thousands of dinos and cant remember ever seeing a single digit stat(since the max wild was bumped from 120 to 150 anyway). Maybe it's possible, but I'd have to see it to believe it.

[DarkSoul996]

20 hours ago, Thorium said:

If you want to breed you have to look into pre-tame stats or you waste a lot of time taming junk dinos.

You need to get lucky two times. First with the pre-tame level distribution and second time with the post-tame level distribution. If one of the both chances you get unlucky, it's junk. So if you see you got unlucky on the first step (pre-tame) you can't get a good breeder in the second step.

If I knock out a 150 rex with average stats across the board I'd be looking at roughly 20 points per stat. If I perfect tame that rex it gets 71 levels hypothetically every single level could end up in health or melee giving me a tame with 92 points in that stat. I would hardly call that a junk dino. I realise the chances of that happening are astronomically low doesn't mean it's not a possibility. In order to maximise your chances of a great breeding line you need to tame in bulk using the perfect tame method for that creature. If you're killing half the creatures you're knocking out because they don't have amazing pre-tame stats then you're halving your chances of getting the post tame levels to roll in the stat you want. 

[DarkSoul996]

20 hours ago, Grandta said:

But wouldn't it be better to have higher pre-tame for the possibility of a higher post-tame

 

I mean if you had two wolf's 

Wolf 1 with 10 points in melee

Wolf 2 with 12 points in melee

Let's pretend that all points go into melee(using low numbers for simplicity sake)So extra two melee points go into both.

Wolf 1 with 12 points in melee

Wolf 2 with 14 points in melee

Wouldn't the higher stat be more desirable for the chance of getting everything into that stat?

 

Law of averages says yes you would be better taming the higher pre-tame wolf but this is RNG. One got a lower roll pre-tame but there's no guarantee the higher melee pre-tame wolf will get as many post tame points into melee. If you're gaining 60-70 odd levels post tame you have a chance of getting an amazing tame regardless. You just don't know until you complete the tame.  The only benefit is to conserve kibble / time but then you may have missed out on an amazing post-tame roll so not really much of a benefit if you have to down twice as many dinos to find one with a good pre-tame roll. The best way to get a great breeding line is to go out and perfect tame as many high levels as you can. More tames - more chances.

[invincibleqc]

9 hours ago, Thorium said:

There are exceptions to the 5% rule. Quetzal for example has less.

We are talking about Yuty here. Not Quetzal. Each specie have their own increase per level, who said 5% was a general rule? ?

[Willard18]

15 hours ago, invincibleqc said:

@SingleSidedPCB Your wild stats are not possible. At least, the melee is not. A level 1 has 100% melee and each points allocated into it are 5% so I'm not sure where you got your 308.1 from (which would be 42 points at 310% anyways).

 

Additive and multiplicative taming bonus says hello.

[invincibleqc]

3 minutes ago, Willard18 said:

Additive and multiplicative taming bonus says hello.

Taming bonus? For a "wild" creature? That's new.

[Willard18]

11 minutes ago, invincibleqc said:

Taming bonus? For a "wild" creature? That's new.

He edited his after your reaction and i didnt notice ;-) he doesnt have 308.1 melee in his sheet anymore.

[invincibleqc]

8 minutes ago, Willard18 said:

He edited his after your reaction and i didnt notice ;-) he doesnt have 308.1 melee in his sheet anymore.

Yeah, and now it is 262.0% which is still technically impossible.

[Onimusha759]

16 hours ago, SingleSidedPCB said:

I'm of the firm belief that pre-tame stats mean nothing. I stopped even paying attention to them years ago. The only stats that matter are the ones when it wakes up tamed.

I had an interesting conversation on reddit awhile back with someone that said, based on the dev kit, point distribution is weighted and there is a window of 5%-25%.  That means a 224 perfect tame cant have less than 11.2 (not sure if that would round up or down) points or more than 56 points in a single stat. Checking the point distribution on every 140,145 and 150 dino I've tamed in my smart breeding library, i see 7%-25% so i believe it.

Also, based on my personal experience and observations point distribution in order of most likely to least likely goes (wasted)speed, Food,Oxygen,Weight,Stam,Health,Melee.

Here's a pre-tame / post-tame comparison of a 150 yuty.

Health+11 Stam+13 Oxy+19 Food+7 Weight+8 Melee+12 Speed+4

Highest gain was oxygen, Lowest gain was melee lowest gain was infact speed...but there's (still) no way to correlate the pre-tame with the post-tame stats..

U do realise that wild dinos no longer waste points on speed right, they fixed that problem back around the flyer nerf when my perfect 120s, 150s and 190s  were no longer perfect levels wen i logged in.

And y do ppl keep talking bout post tame lvls?  We r talking bout breeding  here, post tame and taming effectiveness levels hav 0, 0 EFFECT ON BREEDING.  Only the wild stats effect breeding

[invincibleqc]

15 minutes ago, Onimusha759 said:

U do realise that wild dinos no longer waste points on speed right, they fixed that problem back around the flyer nerf when my perfect 120s, 150s and 190s  were no longer perfect levels wen i logged in.

Only flyers are no longer allocating points into speed, and he is talking about Yuty here.

15 minutes ago, Onimusha759 said:

And y do ppl keep talking bout post tame lvls?  We r talking bout breeding  here, post tame and taming effectiveness levels hav 0, 0 EFFECT ON BREEDING.  Only the wild stats effect breeding

If you read carefully, OP is asking if he should look for 30+ wild points when knocking out direwolves. And you clearly don't understand how it works. Post tame and taming effectiveness is more than important for breeding. Post-tame stats are the ones you can breed, not wild ones.

[lokifeyson]

16 hours ago, SingleSidedPCB said:

I'm of the firm belief that pre-tame stats mean nothing. I stopped even paying attention to them years ago. The only stats that matter are the ones when it wakes up tamed.

I had an interesting conversation on reddit awhile back with someone that said, based on the dev kit, point distribution is weighted and there is a window of 5%-25%.  That means a 224 perfect tame cant have less than 11.2 (not sure if that would round up or down) points or more than 56 points in a single stat. Checking the point distribution on every 140,145 and 150 dino I've tamed in my smart breeding library, i see 7%-25% so i believe it.

Also, based on my personal experience and observations point distribution in order of most likely to least likely goes (wasted)speed, Food,Oxygen,Weight,Stam,Health,Melee.

Here's a pre-tame / post-tame comparison of a 150 yuty.

Health+11 Stam+13 Oxy+19 Food+7 Weight+8 Melee+12 Speed+4

Highest gain was oxygen, Lowest gain was melee lowest gain was infact speed...but there's (still) no way to correlate the pre-tame with the post-tame stats..

I tend to be in the same mind set

[Onimusha759]

1 minute ago, invincibleqc said:

Only flyers are no longer allocating points into speed, and he is talking about Yuty here.

If you read carefully, OP is asking if he should look for 30+ wild points when knocking out direwolves.

4 breeding purposes, and every1s talking and putting up stats that hav 0 effect on breeding