A Survivors Thoughts on the Raptor TLC Pass

[TheDonn]

@Jen

Model looks good!  The bigger feathers and narrower snout definitely make it look more distinct and fierce.

BUT:  It feels like too many creatures are getting homogenized abilities.  Keep 'em unique!  Pack buffs aren't necessary for every pack-roaming dino, the terror birds don't need them, and neither do the raptors.  I'll explain why I think so specifically regarding the raptor.

The dmg/resist buff from the roar boost will slightly increase their usability for low level players sure!  But mostly it will make them a more lethal dino to lowbies while not contributing much to tamed raptor packs, seeing as how fast raptor tames are outclassed by the other bulkier tames.  So instead of being able to tame raptors at a low level, use them, and then move on to Carnos or high level Herbivores, they will just ground-pound you as a lowbie or a group will roar-buff and eat you and your tames.  The threat of the pack boost pushes the raptor further out, narrowing the already slim level range they are useful even further.  I just feel like the dmg/resist howl will contribute more negatively to the game than it will positively.

The ground-pound pindown thing is great!  The movement speed boost to a pack is also awesome!  The model looks soo good!  But I think the roar-boost should increase the movement speed only of the pack (kinda like a Raptor Overdrive mode!) and have a movement speed effect that is active 15 out of every 30 seconds, instead of 45.

But I think more consideration should be given to the actual space the Raptor occupies in the ARK.  They are abandoned very early on, and go back to their life of eating people's low level tamed parasaurs, phiomias, low level trikes/stegos, and actual low level survivors.  I don't think the lack of better HP (I assume this is intentional to relegate their usefulness to starting levels) can be offset by the howl pack boost past ~lvl 45.  Hopefully this gets read before it is buried in another random thread after a thread-merge.

[spiritpaw]

[mention=7]Jen[/mention]
Model looks good!  The bigger feathers and narrower snout definitely make it look more distinct and fierce.
BUT:  It feels like too many creatures are getting homogenized abilities.  Keep 'em unique!  Pack buffs aren't necessary for every pack-roaming dino, the terror birds don't need them, and neither do the raptors.  I'll explain why I think so specifically regarding the raptor.
The dmg/resist buff from the roar boost will slightly increase their usability for low level players sure!  But mostly it will make them a more lethal dino to lowbies while not contributing much to tamed raptor packs, seeing as how fast raptor tames are outclassed by the other bulkier tames.  So instead of being able to tame raptors at a low level, use them, and then move on to Carnos or high level Herbivores, they will just ground-pound you as a lowbie or a group will roar-buff and eat you and your tames.  The threat of the pack boost pushes the raptor further out, narrowing the already slim level range they are useful even further.  I just feel like the dmg/resist howl will contribute more negatively to the game than it will positively.
The ground-pound pindown thing is great!  The movement speed boost to a pack is also awesome!  The model looks soo good!  But I think the roar-boost should increase the movement speed only of the pack (kinda like a Raptor Overdrive mode!) and have a movement speed effect that is active 15 out of every 30 seconds, instead of 45.
But I think more consideration should be given to the actual space the Raptor occupies in the ARK.  They are abandoned very early on, and go back to their life of eating people's low level tamed parasaurs, phiomias, low level trikes/stegos, and actual low level survivors.  I don't think the lack of better HP (I assume this is intentional to relegate their usefulness to starting levels) can be offset by the howl pack boost past ~lvl 45.  Hopefully this gets read before it is buried in another random thread after a thread-merge.

It would make them more scary though..... And Raptors deserve to be scary. You know like that fear of the long grass? Don't go into the long grass!

[TheDonn]

Just now, spiritpaw said:

15 minutes ago, TheDonn said:

 

It would make them more scary though..... And Raptors deserve to be scary. You know like that fear of the long grass? Don't go into the long grass!

Yeah, plenty of things will murder everything that a lowbie survivor has...  Troodons, Raptors (with no dmg/resist buff   ), Argies, Carnos, Rexs, Barys, Sarcos, Kapros, Titanoboas, Pulminoscorps, Allo packs, Terror Bird packs, Gigas, Wolf packs, Sabers, and on and on and on. 

[EssentialFrenzy]

Personally, I think that if one creature gets a pack buff then all pack creatures should receive a pack buff.  If only one pack got a buff then all the other pack creatures wouldn't stand a chance.  This at least helps a bit to allow raptors to burst down a target.  And I would say these abilities are fairly unique.  The pack buff isn't the exact same as others and the pin is a great new addition.  Also I would say that if anything this pack buff definitely extends the time that raptors are relevant to players.  This doesn't really make them any harder to tame.  Bola + sling shot/club = easily knocked out raptor.  If people go about it properly then this will only prolong the use of raptors rather than only making them harder tames.  These changes will likely promote the use of raptors in more stages of the game now.  Some people enjoy using high level raptor packs later in the game, which will be slightly more impactful now.  I can also see the pin and speed buff being somewhat useful in certain pvp situations.  My hope is that they won't be outclassed as easily anymore and maybe instead of people trading their raptors in for carnos they will trade them in for better raptors.  Also I'm sure the carno will be receiving a tlc pass at sometime (at least I hope) which will likely move it up from its current position in the game.  The same goes for trikes as well.  If this all happens then the raptor will be needing these changes, especially when the trike receives the ability to impale smaller creatures like raptors.  

[DarthaNyan]

a pack bonus with speed boost and a pounce pin-down attack...

I foresee lots of tears from new-ish survivors suffering from these mini thylo-wannabes.

[AngrySaltire]

Dont see the problem with too many animals getting a pack bonus, I mean its a common thing in nature. Would be interesting to see other pack based creatures which still dont get it get a similiar treatment.

Wonder if the alpha raptor would get this ability ? Imagine running into an alpha raptor and having if pin you down . 

[Demigod]

the pack bonus is cool but it doesn’t make the raptor unique at all. seems like it’s getting the least amount of love thus far from the TLC.

seeing that the raptor is a highly aggressive carnivore, i think it would be neat if raptors received a buff in speed, health, and melee if set on aggressive and unmounted. when they kill a creature from that position, they would have a greater chance of collecting rare items from the corpse. that would incentivize people to use them as base defense and would just generally give the raptor more utility.

[SirPeter]

3 minutes ago, Demigod said:

the pack bonus is cool but it doesn’t make the raptor unique at all. seems like it’s getting the least amount of love thus far from the TLC.

seeing that the raptor is a highly aggressive carnivore, i think it would be neat if raptors received a buff in speed, health, and melee if set on aggressive and unmounted. when they kill a creature from that position, they would have a greater chance of collecting rare items from the corpse. that would incentivize people to use them as base defense and would just generally give the raptor more utility.

+1

[TheRealSnek]

I really like the pack buff, as it makes the raptor more viable later game, and it doesn’t get out classed by other creatures. When this update launches, I’m definitely gonna tame some raptors.

and for those who think it’s gonna be a problem for early game players, it’s actually gonna be a buff. Raptors can be found easily on the beaches or in the forests alone. Bola it and tranq it and you got yourself a strong, fast mount 

[Wazzamaniac]

I think they should push it even further and make it useful for actual pvp and hunting down players.

Imagine your typical pvp chase. Someone stole your loot, and is now booking it in the forest to escape. The raptor, as a pack, could sense sprinting targets (Like the direwolf senses injured targets with an icon) to track the player down. He would have to stop moving and hide to be unseen. Then, if he gets caught, it would have to be more punishing than just being bitten (as soon as you have flak, that damage would be pitiful). Maybe that's what theyre suggesting by the "pin" part of the pounce attack, but the player should have his options limited to at maximum one-handed melee attacks or a small sidearm to defend himself when pinned down, to prevent him lazily pulling out his shotgun or some long rifle (which realistically would be hard to do when you have a dinosaur holding you to the ground) and destroying the raptor no matter its level.

I feel like this would make the raptor a useful mount in competitive pvp.

[DarthaNyan]

35 minutes ago, TheRealSnek said:

and for those who think it’s gonna be a problem for early game players, it’s actually gonna be a buff. Raptors can be found easily on the beaches or in the forests alone.

there are several reasons why "early game players" cried rivers about Troodons until they have been nerfed into oblivion. One of which is "they can be found easily on the beaches". Another one is that they could easily immobilize and kill unmounted player. Raptors are readily available and will be able to immobilize players.

35 minutes ago, TheRealSnek said:

Bola it and tranq it and you got yourself a strong, fast mount 

Fast? maybe. Strong? definitely not.

25 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said:

Imagine your typical pvp chase. Someone stole your loot, and...

...flew away into the forest. The end.

or

...flew away, then turned around and picked you up from the raptor or the raptor or you on the raptor and threw somewhere in the middle of nowhere from great height.

or

...turned around and one-shot your raptor with a shotgun.

[Wazzamaniac]

5 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

there are several reasons why "early game players" cried rivers about Troodons until they have been nerfed into oblivion. One of which is "they can be found easily on the beaches". Another one is that they could easily immobilize and kill unmounted player. Raptors are readily available and will be able to immobilize players.

Fast? maybe. Strong? definitely not.

...flew away into the forest. The end.

or

...flew away, then turned around and picked you up from the raptor or the raptor or you on the raptor and threw somewhere in the middle of nowhere from great height.

or

...turned around and one-shot your raptor with a shotgun.

Well with the new wingsuits I would agree theres no catching up to players now.

But I'm sure there would be some situations where basically a bola with legs can be useful in.

 

[TheRealSnek]

50 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said:

Well with the new wingsuits I would agree theres no catching up to players now.

But I'm sure there would be some situations where basically a bola with legs can be useful in.

 

If the pounce is anything like the primal carnage raptor pounce, then the raptor is gonna be pretty darn strong. As long as you can catch them off guard, it’s an easy kill. 

Also, i never experienced any problems with troodons. If you were on any mount, you can fend them off. I’m sure even a phiomia could  kill a low level Troodon without any problems. As long as you’re not on foot without dinosaur protection, you’re fine. Even a dimorphodon on your shoulder could defend you against the raptor

[FunkySpino]

I always thought that when the TLC was coming, the raptor should have been redone to be an even more dangerous predator, so you wouldn't find him near the beaches but more in the jungles. Then the dilophosaurus would be redone to be a subsitute to the raptor, he would be bigger and faster and the basic predator instead of the dilo would be the compys, pegomastax.

[SirPeter]

37 minutes ago, TheRealSnek said:

Also, i never experienced any problems with troodons. If you were on any mount, you can fend them off. I’m sure even a phiomia could  kill a low level Troodon without any problems. As long as you’re not on foot without dinosaur protection, you’re fine.

When troodons first came out I was playing on the island and was riding a (roughly) level 100ish Spino. Tamed at level 60-80 if I remember correctly. It was my first spino ever and had decent HP, stam, and melee. Prim saddle. Didn't have any issues moving about the island or even down into the ocean a little. Never had to run from a battle. (Never saw a giga with it). You get the idea it could hold it's own just fine. Traveling through the swamp, killing everything in my path and just tamed an argent and the argent was following me back to base since I forgot to bring a saddle for it. Well I ran into a pack of troodons. I don't know why but there were around 20-30 of them. They killed my spino in less than 2min. I kid you not, jumped off the back of my spino and hit "ride" on the argent in mid air like Indiana Jones. The spino died and fell as I jumped and watched them devour the corpse of my spino.. I seriously believe it scared me for life.. Ever since I kill every single stupid troodon I see because they are pure evil and probably Satan's cousin or something as far as I know.. 

Probably just a spawning issue but that happened and if there was a normal amount of them it would have been fine but just saying..

38 minutes ago, TheRealSnek said:

you’re fine

This is Ark and this statement is a lie.. as soon as anyone believes this Ark shows up to the party and you get wrecked (or wrekt if you're under 20 haha jk).

[Wazzamaniac]

8 minutes ago, SirPeter said:

When troodons first came out I was playing on the island and was riding a (roughly) level 100ish Spino. Tamed at level 60-80 if I remember correctly. It was my first spino ever and had decent HP, stam, and melee. Prim saddle. Didn't have any issues moving about the island or even down into the ocean a little. Never had to run from a battle. (Never saw a giga with it). You get the idea it could hold it's own just fine. Traveling through the swamp, killing everything in my path and just tamed an argent and the argent was following me back to base since I forgot to bring a saddle for it. Well I ran into a pack of troodons. I don't know why but there were around 20-30 of them. They killed my spino in less than 2min. I kid you not, jumped off the back of my spino and hit "ride" on the argent in mid air like Indiana Jones. The spino died and fell as I jumped and watched them devour the corpse of my spino.. I seriously believe it scared me for life.. Ever since I kill every single stupid troodon I see because they are pure evil and probably Satan's cousin or something as far as I know.. 

Probably just a spawning issue but that happened and if there was a normal amount of them it would have been fine but just saying..

This is Ark and this statement is a lie.. as soon as anyone believes this Ark shows up to the party and you get wrecked (or wrekt if you're under 20 haha jk).

20-30 troodons is an abnormal spawn issue and isnt really representative of normal gameplay.

20-30 of anything can do a lot of damage, for example the meganeuras in the swamp cave if you dont have a powefful mount.

Also I believe its pronounced rekt

[SirPeter]

@Wazzamaniac I know.. I was just sharing what happened since he said he's never had an issue. I did say 

9 minutes ago, SirPeter said:

Probably just a spawning issue but that happened and if there was a normal amount of them it would have been fine but just saying..

It was just so crazy and ridiculous and I saw him say "you're fine" I got a little triggered since nothing is ever fine in Ark and figured I'd explain how things don't always work out as they should. HAHA it really was insane to see that many troodons curb stomping a spino.. poor spino.. Only happened once and haven't seen that many of anything together like that in over a year.

[Wazzamaniac]

5 minutes ago, SirPeter said:

@Wazzamaniac I know.. I was just sharing what happened since he said he's never had an issue. I did say 

It was just so crazy and ridiculous and I saw him say "you're fine" I got a little triggered since nothing is ever fine in Ark and figured I'd explain how things don't always work out as they should. HAHA it really was insane to see that many troodons curb stomping a spino.. poor spino.. Only happened once and haven't seen that many of anything together like that in over a year.

Theres a spot in the south of the island that does that sometimes with brontos and pteras.... Theyre absolutely everywhere (counted 12 brontos in one spot)

[SirPeter]

Wow that's crazy. I wish drops had this problem with dropping high level awesome stuff. How come the problems don't do cool stuff from time to time. Like why can't it drop me some insane ascendant rifle with all the ammo I need to shoot every dino on the island in the face 100 times over.. or I walk up to a giga and it just surrenders when it sees how awesome I am.. but no it's always something that kills you, your tames, your base/stuff or something that somehow results with you in the fetal position and needing therapy for 6 weeks. *sigh* one can dream...

[Wazzamaniac]

5 minutes ago, SirPeter said:

Wow that's crazy. I wish drops had this problem with dropping high level awesome stuff. How come the problems don't do cool stuff from time to time. Like why can't it drop me some insane ascendant rifle with all the ammo I need to shoot every dino on the island in the face 100 times over.. or I walk up to a giga and it just surrenders when it sees how awesome I am.. but no it's always something that kills you, your tames, your base/stuff or something that somehow results with you in the fetal position and needing therapy for 6 weeks. *sigh* one can dream...

Play on aberration, you can get ascendant rifles of all types on the surface lol

[SirPeter]

Just now, Wazzamaniac said:

Play on aberration, you can get ascendant rifles of all types on the surface lol

Not to get off topic, but I just recently started playing Ragnarok and plan to get to Aberration eventually. I am REALLY enjoying Ragnarok and will stay there until the desire to play Aberration outweighs my desire to play Ragnarok. I am playing through the story but plan to keep ragnarok my main location and once I get established will jump to Aberration to finish available story. Also transferring seems to be a little broken possibly from what I am reading so hopefully that will get resolved before I do that.

[FlyinJapman4]

The Raptor's pack ability was asked for a long time ago, but I agree that unless it is unique in some way from the Dire Wolf's buff, then there's no reason to add it. However, people to love the Raptor more than the Wolf would disagree and think it's a great buff to make them relevant. Remember that Raptors are phased out once you get a Carno pack. Even experienced players skip them in favor of getting Wolves. This buff gives Raptors a chance to be recognized as an asset again.

[Otterun]

I agree with your points about making each creature's ability a little more unique rather than throwing a pack buff on every species, but I actually think it fits rather well here with what is known about the creature's nature.  I personally like pack buffs on the less popular creatures because 1) it encourages people to use them and brings a bit more diversity to the game and 2) it encourages more collaboration and tribe-team work. 

[TheRealSnek]

19 hours ago, Otterun said:

I agree with your points about making each creature's ability a little more unique rather than throwing a pack buff on every species, but I actually think it fits rather well here with what is known about the creature's nature.  I personally like pack buffs on the less popular creatures because 1) it encourages people to use them and brings a bit more diversity to the game and 2) it encourages more collaboration and tribe-team work. 

I agree. I think this will really make the raptor in a good position. Also, for those complaining about raptors “spawning” on beaches, here’s a complete spawn list for beaches

 

Dodo Spawn (1-5): 24.1%

Dodo: 100%

Dodo: 70%

Dodo: 60%

Dodo: 25%

Dodo: 20%

Para (1-2): 7.1%

Parasaur: 100%

Parasaur: 50%

Trike (1-2): 5.7%

Triceratops: 100%

Triceratops: 50%

Sauropod (1-2): 1.4%

Brontosaurus: 100%

Ptero (1-2): 8.5%

Pteranodon: 100%

Pteranodon: 50%

Dilo Spawn (1-3): 11.3%

Dilophosaur: 100%

Dilophosaur: 67%

Dilophosaur: 33%

Oviraptor Spawn: 2.8%

Oviraptor: 100%

Turtle (1-2): 12.5%

Carbonemys: 100%

Carbonemys: 50%

Compy Spawn (1-5): 3.7%

Compy: 100%

Compy: 70%

Compy: 65%

Compy: 45%

Compy: 30%

Lystro (1-2): 11.3%

Lystrosaurus: 100%

Lystrosaurus: 50%

Moschops (1-2): 4.0%

Moschops: 100%

Moschops: 75%

Pegomastax (2-3): 2.0%

Pegomastax: 100%

Pegomastax: 70%

Pegomastax: 40%

Ichthy (2-4): 5.7%

Ichthyornis: 100%

Ichthyornis: 100%

Ichthyornis: 75%

Ichthyornis: 50%

 

no raptors what ever. Here’s a link to the source https://ark.gamepedia.com/Spawn_Map_(The_Island) . Raptors sometimes “leak” from jungle spawns onto the beach. A tip for newbies is to spawn in large beach areas

[Otterun]

Quote

no raptors what ever. Here’s a link to the source https://ark.gamepedia.com/Spawn_Map_(The_Island) . Raptors sometimes “leak” from jungle spawns onto the beach. A tip for newbies is to spawn in large beach areas

Exactly.  Just like finding random snails and elk on the SW beaches on Ragnarok They're not they're on purpose, they just wander down from their redwood biome.