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v278 Giga enrage mechanic changes


DarthaNyan

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Given that gigas take nearly 2 weeks to raise and with imprint + good saddle can take out wild gigas and titans, this change feels like (in PvE anyway) it only benefits asshats who kite wild gigas and titans on people. Having the ability to kill them as a rider at least somewhat nullifies trolling, now it seemingly just sends two weeks of hard work on a suicide mission. Please stop raptoring with gigas.

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46 minutes ago, Paultron89 said:

Given that gigas take nearly 2 weeks to raise and with imprint + good saddle can take out wild gigas and titans, this change feels like (in PvE anyway) it only benefits asshats who kite wild gigas and titans on people. Having the ability to kill them as a rider at least somewhat nullifies trolling, now it seemingly just sends two weeks of hard work on a suicide mission. Please stop raptoring with gigas.

Why suicide mission? Its not like they will be taking any more damage than they currently do (aside from rider's buff that can be compensated with mate-boost). 2 mate-boosted Gigas will kill Titanos and wild gigas just fine, even faster. The only difference is that you wont be riding them, but whistling on the target shouldn't pose a problem.

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2 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

Why suicide mission? Its not like they will be taking any more damage than they currently do (aside from rider's buff that can be compensated with mate-boost). 2 mate-boosted Gigas will kill Titanos and wild gigas just fine, even faster. The only difference is that you wont be riding them, but whistling on the target shouldn't pose a problem.

I can't ride my gigas, what's the point now?? I shouldnt bother taming, raising, imprinting or doing anything with gigas now since it'll enrage more and just knock me off, so now I should whistle it to attack something? Haha, no.

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14 minutes ago, McTayTay said:

I can't ride my gigas, what's the point now?? I shouldnt bother taming, raising, imprinting or doing anything with gigas now since it'll enrage more and just knock me off, so now I should whistle it to attack something? Haha, no.

Was going to say pretty much this in response to a reply to me above, but you nailed it for me. lol Imprinting dinos is supposed to be a reward for the work that goes into it, I'm not interested in being a passive participant in a game, I imprint to actually ride them.

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Guest vassiliOFP85
3 minutes ago, Paultron89 said:

Was going to say pretty much this in response to a reply to me above, but you nailed it for me. lol Imprinting dinos is supposed to be a reward for the work that goes into it, I'm not interested in being a passive participant in a game, I imprint to actually ride them.

I'd just add that god knows it's a hell of a job to imprint a giga properly !!! So deserves a reward !!

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3 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

Why suicide mission? Its not like they will be taking any more damage than they currently do (aside from rider's buff that can be compensated with mate-boost). 2 mate-boosted Gigas will kill Titanos and wild gigas just fine, even faster. The only difference is that you wont be riding them, but whistling on the target shouldn't pose a problem.

Would a tamed Giga do less damage over time when attacking something unridden compared to a ridden one? I don't have gigas but Rexes for example attack much slower when not being ridden. I don't know if there is a difference for Gigas and if so how big of one there would be just curious. Also not including if what is being attacked moves and the sad AI of the tame Rex gets stuck or can't turn around because of a tree or something then that also goes into account for reducing damage over time.. ugh... AI drives me crazy in this game.

33 minutes ago, McTayTay said:

I can't ride my gigas, what's the point now?? I shouldnt bother taming, raising, imprinting or doing anything with gigas now since it'll enrage more and just knock me off, so now I should whistle it to attack something? Haha, no.

You have solved your own problem. Don't ride them, don't tame them, don't deal with them now you don't have an issue anymore. Keep in mind the title of the game includes "Survival Evolved".. evolve your strat as the game does and work with what you got. Perhaps change your strat completely where it doesn't involve Gigas. Also if you don't already maybe look into playing on servers with settings more accommodating to your liking. I don't personally know the full scope of server settings but just a suggestion. 

Personally I am getting very close to being ready to tame some Gigas and perhaps my opinion will change. But what I know this update isn't out at this moment and much of this is speculation, lets see what happens and discuss further when we have real knowledge of what happens. 

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2 minutes ago, vassiliOFP85 said:

I'd just add that god knows it's a hell of a job to imprint a giga properly !!! So deserves a reward !!

And let's be honest, you can't use them in boss fights, so a 100% imprint (and 245 base melee, at that) deserves to be king of pretty much everything that isn't a boss. We could have a discussion about Titans, but nevertheless I don't like the idea of gigas just being giant attack dogs. That's stupid.

As for the honest discussion on titans, let me start it. I left Ark in August right before the official launch, I believe, and came back after a couple months to play with some of my friends on official. During legacy I remember that, when fighting a titan with a giga, you could pretty much just shove yourself up its butt, chew for five minutes and you win. I would completely agree that that is stupid and broken. After my return I was told that titans were buffed and quickly discovered that, wow, it was a decent challenge. A 100% imprinted giga with a decent saddle could be raged in about 5-6 consecutive hits from a titan and because of that you actually had to battle it skillfully, line it up with trees, be prepared to flee and rest when needed, etc, but ultimately you could still win. It was sort of like a mini boss fight. Then they nerfed titans (or buffed gigas, don't remember which) and it's back to pretty much ramming your head up its butt and chewing for a couple minutes. If this giga buff returns it to making titan fights be skillful, I would be perfectly fine with that, but if it makes it a complete joke where you rage after a couple hits, well, that's just stupid.

And all of this doesn't even touch on if fighting wild gigas will be possible still. I'm not in a tribe so any confrontation would be solo. Quite honestly, a giga with a 100+ saddle, 100% imprint and 400%+ melee should be able to kill wild gigas and titans without having to worry. It will be completely asinine if it ends up being otherwise.

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6 minutes ago, SirPeter said:

Would a tamed Giga do less damage over time when attacking something unridden compared to a ridden one? I don't have gigas but Rexes for example attack much slower when not being ridden. I don't know if there is a difference for Gigas and if so how big of one there would be just curious. Also not including if what is being attacked moves and the sad AI of the tame Rex gets stuck or can't turn around because of a tree or something then that also goes into account for reducing damage over time.. ugh... AI drives me crazy in this game.

I think every non-rider mount attacks slower than those that have riders, so I imagine the dmg inflicted would be significantly different.

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2 minutes ago, Paultron89 said:

I think every non-rider mount attacks slower than those that have riders, so I imagine the dmg inflicted would be significantly different.

So that is something to keep in mind when this ..change.. takes place and people are whistle commanding Gigas everywhere. They may not be as effective as they used to be rage or not. My favorite example is the Wyverns since they don't use element abilities when tamed and un-ridden (at least not to my knowledge). A tamed Wyvern without a rider is much less threatening and easy to kill than a wild one. It's a dynamic I think should be kept in mind before sending anything even a Giga to battle because it could end up in a loss of a Giga or more over poor AI.

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Guest vassiliOFP85
20 minutes ago, Paultron89 said:

And let's be honest, you can't use them in boss fights, so a 100% imprint (and 245 base melee, at that) deserves to be king of pretty much everything that isn't a boss. We could have a discussion about Titans, but nevertheless I don't like the idea of gigas just being giant attack dogs. That's stupid.

100% agreed with you on that. Viewing gigas as meat farmers........................... makes me depressed to be honest. They have a role they fit quite well at the moment. 

My giga is a 255melee base, imprinted at 95%, and right now it's at around 470melee. Usually titans are a matter of minutes, BUT, when you discover one titan is hidden just 100m after the other and they get mate buff... I can assure you they get you down to your knees. Same with wild gigas, fights can be challenging even with current performances of tamed giga.

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well this actually sucks a lot. i like the idea of no raging from fall damage, but i planned on breeding gigas for pvp purposes. just got two high level ones tamed and was going to breed but i’m thinking twice about it now. if it’s gonna enrage the same with or without imprint or saddle then what’s the purpose of getting imprint or saddle?

as others have said, i hope this change gets reverted back or they modify it. currently it looks like the giga stands as a giant trophy dino that collects meat.

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i think the biggest problem with the giga is raising it i stayed up all night feeding it to keep it alive after about 13-14 hours of no stop feeding morning came and it was time to get my kids ready for school so i filled it with as much food as it could have and when i got back from school run giga was dead i was so upset i have no idea how people raise giga that have kids or jobs like me 

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21 minutes ago, daniel646 said:

i think the biggest problem with the giga is raising it i stayed up all night feeding it to keep it alive after about 13-14 hours of no stop feeding morning came and it was time to get my kids ready for school so i filled it with as much food as it could have and when i got back from school run giga was dead i was so upset i have no idea how people raise giga that have kids or jobs like me 

Yeah, 24hrs on 1x is nuts and requires starting it super early in the morning and then waking up a couple times over night.

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1 hour ago, edskelly said:

I'm a PVE player and if they nerf Gigas anywhere near how they were at when their rage was bugged a couple of months ago I'm done with this game.....that simple.This game is broken in so many ways and if they are busy doing such things while so many fixes are needed it shows how out of touch the devs are.

It kind of seems like what you saw in the v278 patch notes list was this:

Patch v278 - Feb 10th ETA:

  • The Giga's rage mechanic is now based on damage taken before reduction from external sources (saddles, yuty)
  • Absolutely nothing else. We decided to scrap the rest of the patch so no one will look silly if they imply this is the only thing we've been working on
     

Whereas the list that saw looked more like this (spoiler alert!):

Spoiler

Dino TLC - The Procoptodon!
- Receives a model update, animation update, sound pass, and some new abilities:
- Will take reduced fall damage
- Carry weight will be noticeably increased
- Can carry small creatures and baby dinos in its pouch
- A knockback kick which can affect significantly larger dinos
- Added an aimed jump which can be used by holding down the Jump key
- Carried characters in a pouch have reduced food consumption rate when carried by Mate-Boosted Female Procoptodons.
- Babies imprinted while in a carried Procoptodon pouch receive more affinity

Dino TLC - The Gigantopithecus A.K.A Bigfoot!
- Receives a model update, animation update, new fur, sound pass and some new abilities:
- The Bigfoot will receive an armour-degrading attack; this means when it fights, it'll do more damage to your armour's durability. It is important to note that the armour-degrading attack will not affect the Yeti creatures found in the game.
- Added the capability to climb ziplines (but not jump between them)
- Added a jump
- It can now carry and throw small creatures
- Throwing has been made more accurate, similarly to crabs with targetting cursor

Dino TLC - The Direbear!
- Receives a model update, animation update, new fur and some new abilities:
- When riding a Direbear, players will be immune to bees. They won't be able to knock you off your bear, and they will target focus the bear instead of the player.
- The Direbear will also be able to harvest honey from wild beehives without attracting bees or hurting the hive using it's alternative attack. Plus the amount of honey it receives will be 3x the standard amount.
- Increased swim speed

Dino TLC - The Direwolf!
- Receives a model update, animation update, new fur and some new abilities:
- Howl now activates a pack buff for 90 seconds (with a 1.5 minute cooldown). When the Alpha howls, the pack also howls. The pack buff strengthens the Alpha, as well as its pack (reduced amount vs Alpha)
- Hunter's Instinct passive buff which will allow it to sniff out people/creatures with less than 50% health
- Sniff tertiary ability to indicate nearby explorer notes, or to detect buried/stealth creatures

Dino TLC - The Rex!
- Receives a model update, animation update,  and some new abilities:
- Its roar should receive a CD and make non-allies (under a certain dragweight) poop to act as a small stun/interrupt. There will be a cooldown on victims so that they cannot be pooplocked continuously.
- The roar will not be able to scare anything above its level
- Roar will cause players to poop but not stun them
- Rex's ability to climb over small rocks and steeper slopes have been improved.

Creature Specific Bug Fixes & Balance Balance
- Dragon's Fire Breath direct impact damage reduced by 50%
- Fixed a bug which caused Rock Drake and Wyvern eggs to sink below their nests over time.
- Added Rock Golem Saddles to Scorched Earth Loot Table
- Added Basilisk and Krakinos Saddles to Aberration Loot Table
- Uploaded Creature stats now display Movement Speed and Melee Damage
- Fixed a case where certain creatures would get stuck under the map/inside the map when colliding with larger creatures (most noticeably seen the Rock Drake and Basilisk)
- Fixed an issue which was causing a desync with the Reaper's collision
- No longer need pheromone to claim Reaper Kings
- Moschops will no longer flee when told to harvest dino corpses
- Fixed a bug where some creatures would not be able to attack at low server FPS
- Bronto's and Paracer's breeding time have increased by 50% (equivalent to Quetz)
- Reduced Bronto HP gain per level by 33%
- Reduced Bronto base HP by 10%
- Reduced Paracaratherium base HP by 10%
- Reduced Paracer HP gain per level by 25%
- Reduced Tuso Base HP by 20%
- Reduced Tuso HP gain per level by 25%
- Reduced Dunky resistance to bullets to 40%
- Reduced Dunky other resistances to 60%
- Stego Plate Resistant reduced to 30%
- TEK Tapejara no longer inflicts raid damage (how you inflict torpor on titan, krab, and golem)
- General AI Option for Dinos to only attack conscious targets
- Skittish Stance added to tamed dinos
- Fixed a case where the Pela could use more weapons than just the fishing rod
- Fixed fishing rod no longer working on the Pela
- Tamed and Wild Karkinos no longer get stuck in a floating state by medium/big sized dinos
- Gigantopithecus can now use the teleporter
- Fortitude now provides some resistance versus the effects of the Rex Roar, and this resistance carries onto player-ridden dinos too. Enough fortitude can prevent player-ridden dinos from being poopstunned.
- Increased the amount of food Achatina receives from cake to 500.
- Direbear and Gigantopithecus have been added to Aberration
- Removed the ability to place Plant Y and Bear Traps while riding a dino
- Reduced Titanosaur walk speed by 5% and run speed by 20%
- Corrected bigfoot's socket for Desert Goggle headgear
- For creatures with targetted jumps, pressing jump again in midair will result in the tame falling straight down (to prevent erroneous cases where the dino may unintentionally bounce awkwardly)
- Basilisks now damage foliage on movement to prevent them from getting stuck in trees, and the accuracy of their poision shot has been improved.
- The Giga is no longer raged by fall damage
- The Giga's rage mechanic is now based on damage taken before reduction from external sources (saddles, yuty) <<-Hey, there it is!! Hi mom!
- Reduced the respawn rate of Basilisk and lowered the Nearby Player check
- Fixed a case where the Rock Drake would not correctly uncloak
- Increased the Phoenix's health, stamina and weight.
- Adjusted The Center's Gorilla boss so it now matches The Island

General
- Creative Mode building (an admin command which you can trigger on yourself/another player which removes weight restrictions, crafting requirements, and unlocks all the engrams. Allowing you to freely craft items to your hearts content. Must relog to disable the effect)
- Server option to disable fog. (?DisableWeatherFog=true)
- ARK will now scan your steam achievements and update your local profile accordingly to restore any lost skins/hairstyles.
- Add messages to tribe logs with information about uploading and downloading creatures
- Made a respawning player not targettable by Wild AI
- Option to hide learned engrams
- Players can now directly go from Proning to Crouching position
- Ambient Sounds have their own volume slider
- Right Click Context option added to folders to equip everything insider, allowing for rapid gear switching
- Created a "Use Last PIN Code" so players can quickly access secured structures
- Server option which makes the Silencer hide the name of the player who has killed you from the kill message and tribe log (enabled by default on Console, disabled on PC Official PvP servers)
- Server Option to make Supply Crates random (?RandomSupplyCratePoints=true)
- Option to enable NVIDIA Ansel on Servers (-ServerAllowAnsel)
- Prevented specific graphical flags from being invited via .ini files
- AxisMapping is now taken into account when underwater
- Cooldown added to tribe's changing their name
- 5 Second character and base immunity added to ORP servers when first logging in
- Fixed a collision issue affecting some dino gates that allowed unintended entry
- Fixed multiple unintended mechanics (will explain in a bit more detail after the update drops ;))
- Fixed an issue where the Tek Teleporter built on pillars/ceilings would push players and creatures beneath it.
- Fixed a crash caused by using ForceTame when riding a Dino
- Improved Red Crystal collision so they can be harvested more efficiently by Anky
- Corrected the Aquatic Mushroom description
- Removed collision from glowsticks which would cause movement problems with certain creatures
- Fixed multiple client/server crashes
- Fixed an issue where some zip line anchors were outside of replication range, preventing them from being used.
- Fixed a case which would allow players mounted on certain creatures to throw/place C4 a lot further (e.g. Stego)
- Corrected an incorrect icon with the Seeker Dossier
- Fixed a case where teleporting outside of a large base with the TEK Teleporter would show foliage that was harvested
- Fixed multiple map issues (holes and collision)
- Fixed a case where some foliage would not replicate appropriately on Aberration
- Turrets now respect enemy foundation placement rules, and there is a 30-second spin-up time when being powered by a battery.
- You can now scroll the chatbox using a game controller by holding down the BACK Action Wheel, and selecting the Scroll Chat Box option. This will highlight the chatbox. To exit this mode, just press back button on your controller (B/Circle)
- You can now enable the retroactive turret hard limit by enabling this setting in your game.ini under ShooterGameMode:bHardLimitTurretsInRange=True
This will work on autoturrets, heavy turrets, tek turrets, plant turrets and is no longer map specific. The hard limit calculation is done on start-up, so if your turrets are ever over the limit, they will be randomly shut-off until you're under the limit. In order to restore shut off turrets, you must pick up any which exceed the number, as well as shut-off turrets and replace them in order for them to work.
- Tribe ownership in hardcode mode is now transferred to the next person in line when the owner of a hardcore tribe is killed
- Mini map overhaul:
Will receive a new 'Me' marker which is easier to identify
'Me' marker now tracks rotation
Increased number of point of interest map markers to 30
Changed font for map markers to avoid overlays
'Me' marker and 'points of interest' markers are now colourable
- Tribe Log now displays when people have been kicked, promoted, demoted, claim, unclaim, upload and download a creature.
- Players are automatically expelled from tribes when they die in hardcore
- Large underwater rock features on the island can now be built on
- Reduced cloning costs by approximately 40% across the board.
- Providing players with the option to flip their tribe log, so that they can either select to have the most recent messages at the top or bottom.
- Torches will work similarly to Flame Arrows versus Plant Y Traps
- Distuingish the sound effect for smoke grenades and posion grenades when hitting the ground
- Reduced TEK Tier vacuum crafting requirements, increased their damage resistance and made it so that metal hatchframes are snapable to them
- Spyglass now functions correctly on Tamed Reapers
- Tribes can now see the demo timers of their own structures
- Added an option checkbox for 'Toggle Extended Hud Info' that will make 'H' function as a toggle rather than a hold

You're probably right though, it's a shame they're too busy working on giga rage mechanics to address anything else important. :(


 

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39 minutes ago, edskelly said:

What i saw was many many many wasted hours.I have 100% imprinted 8 Gigas, 3 which were done on 1X at 4 hour imprinting.

Well if it makes you feel any better, I promise you that this won't be the last time you look back at what you've done in a video game to realize you've wasted many many many hours doing things that are entirely pointless. Mind the kentros. :P

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On 2/8/2018 at 1:44 PM, yekrucifixion187 said:

If this is how they approach it. 

Maybe their aim is to get people to put some points in HP not just melee thus balancing it out in their views. 

I'm impartial to this nerf as I don't own a Giga just trying to figure out reasoning for it. I will say it's going to be a sight to see some video's of people air dropping Giga's into bases off of Quetzal's now that fall damage doesn't rage them. 

Pumping Health in Gigas is pointless. They gain like maybe 60 Health per level up, when mine come out at 34k after Imprint. Pumping levels in any stats but Melee Damage on a Giga, is garbage. Pump levels into Stam, gain like 2 Stamina per level up. Pump levels into Movement Speed, get like 0.6% speed per level up. At least my bred Gigas would gain 3% Melee Damage per level up.

Gigas will become a MASSIVE liability with how easily they'll be able to rage after v278 hits. People forget, that when a Giga enrages, it'll attack ALL nearby players/dinos, even in the same tribe, and that enraging one Giga will enrage any other nearby Gigas. Imagine having your Gigas stuffed inside your base and protected with walls, but some troll with a Tek Railgun comes along (pretty sure the 850 damage of a Railgun will be enough to enrage a Giga instantly if Armor/Imprint/Yuty doesn't matter), shoots through your walls once and enrages your Gigas, then just laughs as your Gigas proceeed to devour all the other dinos within your base...

You'll need a completely separate metal pen for your Gigas.

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14 hours ago, LouSpowells said:

Well if it makes you feel any better, I promise you that this won't be the last time you look back at what you've done in a video game to realize you've wasted many many many hours doing things that are entirely pointless. Mind the kentros. :P

Youre completely right mate.I grinded out rank 14 pvp in vanilla wow (look it up if you dont know what it means)

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8 hours ago, edskelly said:

Youre completely right mate.I grinded out rank 14 pvp in vanilla wow (look it up if you dont know what it means)

Never much of a PvP guy in wow myself, but that's the game where - after quitting - I truly knew what it was like to look back on wasted time, lol. No doubt, if I had recently bred up some Gigas with 100% imprint on vanilla settings I'd be bitter for sure...but at this point if losing it makes getting it a waste of time, I just don't bother getting it. Going unofficial with boosted rates really made that a lot easier for me at least.

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With the patch going live I went and tested the new enrage mechanic against a Titan and Wild Giga. I used a 100% imprinted 345 base damage Giga leveled to 656 damage wearing a 117.5 saddle.

Fighting both the Titan and a level 20 wild Giga the enrage bar never got beyond about 15-20%. Given how wild gigas damage works and how a low level basicly does the same damage as a high level one I do not see this changing much even if it was a 150. I will however test it more as higher level ones spawn.

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14 hours ago, Daedros said:

Pumping Health in Gigas is pointless. They gain like maybe 60 Health per level up, when mine come out at 34k after Imprint. Pumping levels in any stats but Melee Damage on a Giga, is garbage. Pump levels into Stam, gain like 2 Stamina per level up. Pump levels into Movement Speed, get like 0.6% speed per level up. At least my bred Gigas would gain 3% Melee Damage per level up.

Gigas will become a MASSIVE liability with how easily they'll be able to rage after v278 hits. People forget, that when a Giga enrages, it'll attack ALL nearby players/dinos, even in the same tribe, and that enraging one Giga will enrage any other nearby Gigas. Imagine having your Gigas stuffed inside your base and protected with walls, but some troll with a Tek Railgun comes along (pretty sure the 850 damage of a Railgun will be enough to enrage a Giga instantly if Armor/Imprint/Yuty doesn't matter), shoots through your walls once and enrages your Gigas, then just laughs as your Gigas proceeed to devour all the other dinos within your base...

You'll need a completely separate metal pen for your Gigas.

To be frank, that's kind of how the dino is supposed to work. The fact that the dino was, effectively, an unstoppable killing machine with no effective competition on the ground, was never really intended. Currently I have killed Gigas with c4 and never raged them. While the rage should be managable, what we have with the current iteration of Giga is a mechanic that is effectively non-existent at higher end usage.

Though personally, I would have addressed the fact that Giga HP nearly doubles with imprinting (Instead of "Just 20%") first before taking away damage reduction sources, it's a nerf that has to come in to bring the dino more into the intended vision and stated usage of the dino. Instead of just throwing them at hordes of dinos or buildings, secure in the knowledge that not only can your Giga tank very well, but that it won't rage, you might actually have to thin the enemy defenses/lower their DPS/protect the Giga to prevent it from raging. 

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2 hours ago, iAmE said:

I would have addressed the fact that Giga HP nearly doubles with imprinting (Instead of "Just 20%") first before taking away damage reduction sources,

Technically giga gets 20% of base HP and melee which is calculated before flat reduction to these stats they suffer upon taming.
They didnt remove damage reduction sources from gigas, only made them not affect rage meter. It is a huge difference.

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Just now, DarthaNyan said:

Technically giga gets 20% of base HP and melee which is calculated before flat reduction to these stats they suffer upon taming.
They didnt remove damage reduction sources from gigas, only made them not affect rage meter. It is a huge difference.

I know the technicalities. I was simply making a point that enrage is based on percent of max HP damage taken within a  certain time frame. Currently, imprinting and breeding is a huge powerspike for tribes, particularly in PvP, due to how it interacts with Gigas specifically. Not only do they get the 30% damage reduction, their base HP can, and usually does, almost double. 

The reason I suggested addressing the ridiculous health gain over removing the damage reduction consideration is because it is a smaller nerf, and addresses one of the biggest inherent problems with Breeding in PvP

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