AndrewLB Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 21 hours ago, Zederia said: @Joebl0w13 hey, if you want proof just ask. I have several bounty emails I sent and never got anything back. even though they say that they pay out for bounties, they really don't. They could have fixed this 2 years ago This is very true. I've never known anyone to receive a bounty even though the exploit was patched shortly after they reported it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoboOfTheFriendlies Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Trying to discuss with emotional angry gamers is about as pointless as putting a Trump fan and a Hillary fan in the same room to find common ground. What I see is a business doing their best to make the best product they can based on their vision, while trying to maintain a customer base comprised of people with very different views on pretty much every darn aspect of the product. Over time I have seen groups of super angry people that hate WC try to get campaigns going to destroy their rating, and to scare off anyone thinking about buying the game. A rational response would be to quit playing it. As to the recent decision not to ban a very large portion of the PvP official player base, that makes pretty good business sense. What they do next is what they do next, so getting upset about what you think might happen in the future is pretty silly. They say this is a unique situation, so unless they say the same thing again there is no reason to believe otherwise. The problem with buying into hate and conspiracy theories is that it breaks your capacity to think rationally, and everything you see is taken as proof due to confirmation bias. If you are getting so upset and taking things so personally about a game it might be a good time to take a break and go to the park or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CovertLizard Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, BoboOfTheFriendlies said: Trying to discuss with emotional angry gamers is about as pointless as putting a Trump fan and a Hillary fan in the same room to find common ground. What I see is a business doing their best to make the best product they can based on their vision, while trying to maintain a customer base comprised of people with very different views on pretty much every darn aspect of the product. Over time I have seen groups of super angry people that hate WC try to get campaigns going to destroy their rating, and to scare off anyone thinking about buying the game. A rational response would be to quit playing it. As to the recent decision not to ban a very large portion of the PvP official player base, that makes pretty good business sense. What they do next is what they do next, so getting upset about what you think might happen in the future is pretty silly. They say this is a unique situation, so unless they say the same thing again there is no reason to believe otherwise. The problem with buying into hate and conspiracy theories is that it breaks your capacity to think rationally, and everything you see is taken as proof due to confirmation bias. If you are getting so upset and taking things so personally about a game it might be a good time to take a break and go to the park or something. You’re doing the same thing I talked about above. People are angry, they are allowed to be angry, and they are angry because they love the game. Therefore, a rational response as consumers would be to try and seek change in really the only way they can. It is perfectly valid for you to argue against those people if you think WC actions were justified and correct, it is another thing entirely to discount these valid arguments because the people who make them are angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoboOfTheFriendlies Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, CovertLizard said: You’re doing the same thing I talked about above. People are angry, they are allowed to be angry, and they are angry because they love the game. Therefore, a rational response as consumers would be to try and seek change in really the only way they can. It is perfectly valid for you to argue against those people if you think WC actions were justified and correct, it is another thing entirely to discount these valid arguments because the people who make them are angry. You are projecting why other people are angry, and you are asserting that their arguments are valid. Anyone can feel whatever they want, whether for rational or in many cases we see in these forums, irrational. Substance wins in the end, and rhetoric means nothing to anyone but other emotional people, no matter how passionate you are. I am saying that their arguments are assumptions and projections, for the most part. Saying how you feel about WC does not make it so, and pointing out that most of the wild statements are irrational is not repressing anyone. If you are mad that skittles quit selling purple ones it hardly makes sense to assert conspiracy and/or contempt for the consumers, although anyone is free to do so. There is a difference between freedom and validity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonie1 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 20 hours ago, iStephano said: I get why people are mad, they feel they got screwd over, and again by "the big bad alpha tribe" Alpha tribe win even if they cheated and tricked the system. But i do agree with wildcard on this decision. Why? Well this have been a long time bug / issue and it seems like now they have found a good solution. So in a way, it was a "part of the game" and this "bug" have been in the game for ages. So to suddenly ban most big tribes for a issue or a weakness that was in the game taken the timeframe was not a good idea. To be real, if someone see a way to get around more easy people will. And this was going on for years. I myself im not a part of that, played legit on a official server since 2016 but i seen and heard other people been affected by it. So now, WC found a fix, they did it - look at it as a new start. I have even seen some alpha tribes now having a hard time since they acutally need to play the game fair. And its funny, they die like flies and now for once the playground is even. If you knew what the exploit was, you wouldnt be calling it "part of the game" or just a bug. Try reading Reddit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CovertLizard Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, BoboOfTheFriendlies said: You are projecting why other people are angry, and you are asserting that their arguments are valid. Anyone can feel whatever they want, whether for rational or in many cases we see in these forums, irrational. Substance wins in the end, and rhetoric means nothing to anyone but other emotional people, no matter how passionate you are. I am saying that their arguments are assumptions and projections, for the most part. Saying how you feel about WC does not make it so, and pointing out that most of the wild statements are irrational is not repressing anyone. If you are mad that skittles quit selling purple ones it hardly makes sense to assert conspiracy and/or contempt for the consumers, although anyone is free to do so. There is a difference between freedom and validity. You assume that I am defending every person’s argument that agrees with mine. What i am saying is that if you disagree with someone’s argument, refute it. Don’t just come in and say, you’re angry and hateful and therefore nothing you say is valid. Prove it! Show people the substance you’re talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoboOfTheFriendlies Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 minute ago, CovertLizard said: You assume that I am defending every person’s argument that agrees with mine. What i am saying is that if you disagree with someone’s argument, refute it. Don’t just come in and say, your are angry and hateful and therefore nothing you say is valid. Prove it! Show people the substance you’re talking about. No, I am not the one making the assertions. It is a rhetorical game to make assertions about something and then claim other people are responsible to refute them or the claim is true. I am simply saying that I don't believe WC is guilty of the multiple villainous and contempt filled attitudes being attributed to them. The rhetorical device of demanding proof that something baseless has no substance is common with flat earthers and other fringe stuff. The onus is on the person making the claim. And this is what I was trying to point out, when people are emotional and personally invested there is not much point in trying to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer Moderator Jerryn Posted February 10, 2018 Volunteer Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2018 Please return to the topic, which does not include assumptions on the motives of the other person or how to have a debate. If your post is more about the person and not about the topic, please reconsider posting it. Thanks. Note: This is a general request and not targeted at any one individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark2084 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I'm not angry in the slightest. If anything I am laughing my ass off right now. The Devs have known about the exploits for nearly two years but they didn't do anything about it because it would have "upset the player base". Now here we are, they have no other choice but to do something about it and they fall flat on their face. Should they have handed out permanent bans... no, but at least something like a 72 hour ban or even a week along with a message that next time they are caught with will be more like a 3 or 6 month ban, and if they are still caught after that then you hit them where it hurts and console ban them(or IP depending on the platform). What the Devs did was basically a bluff, they can say they know who is doing what but I seriously doubt it. "You've been very naughty but we'll let it slide this time".... blah blah blah blah blah. They can't even get the updates out in a reasonable amount of time and that not even going into how badly they have screwed up the holiday events... in 2016 the events were good, they might have needed a little tweeking but they were good so what do the Devs do.... try to fix what wasn't broken.... they don't don't care about anything but making their next dollar and from a business point of view that's great... from a customers point of view not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenithar Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Jerryn, I was just joking about naming my castle up north in the snow area on the island "Castle Greyskull", then I hop on here and see your avatar. It made me chuckle. Also, triple-post? Now, I see this has really divided the community. I guess it isn't as bad for those of us on private servers, but something should be done on official. Does it matter if you ban 40% of the population for cheating or if you lose 40% because they're pissed? Either way you stand to lose 40% or more of your player base. I'd suggest some even ground be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CovertLizard Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, BoboOfTheFriendlies said: No, I am not the one making the assertions. It is a rhetorical game to make assertions about something and then claim other people are responsible to refute them or the claim is true. I am simply saying that I don't believe WC is guilty of the multiple villainous and contempt filled attitudes being attributed to them. The rhetorical device of demanding proof that something baseless has no substance is common with flat earthers and other fringe stuff. The onus is on the person making the claim. And this is what I was trying to point out, when people are emotional and personally invested there is not much point in trying to discuss. Okay trying to return more to topic. We are not talking about something that is verifiably proven to be false. What happened is that WC has allowed people (they say it’s a large number) to cheat and get away with it. People, myself included, thinks this unfair, short-sighted, and otherwise incompetent. I don’t think it’s evidence that wc hates their players or any grand conspiracy, but I do think it is woefully inept and will harm the game more in the long term than simply banning cheaters right now. Not to mention WC’s word has very little weight with the community in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoboOfTheFriendlies Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I see no reason to believe WC is not being direct with us about how widespread the use of the exploit was, and that they decided to give amnesty because of the impact to the player base and that they recognize the rationale that some megas might have been using it just to survive against the others using it. That is a business decision, clearly based on their belief that it would be lesser negative impact to their player base than banning would. Any changes in playing statistics will represent a more meaningful argument about whether or not this was a competent move than guessing about what the majority of the players think and will do. My personal opinion is that this choice will retain more of the players that put in the majority of hours on official than banning all the megas would have. Think about the same things people often complain of here, with megas having scores or even thousands of players, versus small tribes and solo players. The business math seems clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtallbloke Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 TBH i dont get why they even mentioned it so extensively? IF they had no intention of banning anyone why even say so? Why not just say "we have found a long term exploit which we have fixed" leave it at that. I think Jats post was a mistake- All that has happenend is he alienated the player base that did not cheat. Sometimes (and only sometimes) less is more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoboOfTheFriendlies Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, vtallbloke said: TBH i dont get why they even mentioned it so extensively? IF they had no intention of banning anyone why even say so? Why not just say "we have found a long term exploit which we have fixed" leave it at that. I think Jats post was a mistake- All that has happenend is he alienated the player base that did not cheat. Sometimes (and only sometimes) less is more I would guess that he hoped it would reduce the amount of speculation and accusations of the sort we have been seeing, probably thinking that transparency about their reasoning and intent to continue with their harder line on cheating after this would preempt the "outrage" that comes from most anything they do. But I agree with you, there are occasions where it is better to just say less. If there is anything that I might think of as a poor business decision, without knowing the details as none of us do, it would indeed be the way this was communicated could have been better crafted to minimize the PR issues with a vocal portion of the player base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedzone Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 22 minutes ago, vtallbloke said: TBH i dont get why they even mentioned it so extensively? IF they had no intention of banning anyone why even say so? Why not just say "we have found a long term exploit which we have fixed" leave it at that. I think Jats post was a mistake- All that has happenend is he alienated the player base that did not cheat. Sometimes (and only sometimes) less is more The thing is with this instance, is that WC has failed to fix bugs and exploits properly, opting for quick fixes, which persistent people find ways around rather quickly, going right back to business as usual. Add to that, WC was very hesitant to enforce bans at one point, which really eroded community trust in what WC was telling them. Then came the major fiasco of exploits and cheats that led to servers being split, with the promise of the new ones being all fair and square. But what happened? They same old crap that happened on the legacy servers. At this point in the game, WC has lost virtually all credibility with it's customer base. Server attendance has fallen considerably over the years, but of course that is expected. But I think we all know, if we are to take Jat's remarks about how many people abused these exploits at face value, it would seriously harm the population of their game, hence their income. Yes, this was a business decision, but it was a decision that was born out of utter stupidity on their part, Laziness with a capital 'L', and in my opinion, a total lack of management. Actions or inaction, has consequences. I think it is pretty damn clear from the opinions expressed in the forums exactly what the majority of their player base thinks of their 'decisions'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer Moderator Joebl0w13 Posted February 10, 2018 Volunteer Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2018 33 minutes ago, Dedzone said: I think it is pretty damn clear from the opinions expressed in the forums exactly what the majority of their player base thinks of their 'decisions'. To be absolutely clear here. The amount of people that have signed up on this forum let alone the few that post actively are a tiny tiny fraction of the player base. Less than 3% of the total copies sold on all platforms have accounts here. And most aren’t active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoboOfTheFriendlies Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Joebl0w13 said: To be absolutely clear here. The amount of people that have signed up on this forum let alone the few that post actively are a tiny tiny fraction of the player base. Less than 3% of the total copies sold on all platforms have accounts here. And most aren’t active. That is exactly why people should not assume that a few angry voices represents any kind of majority. It is always easy to back-seat drive and be critical without having all the information. The player statistics are a more meaningful indication of widespread player reactions than anything we are going to read in this forum. Not only is it a tiny fraction of the player base that comes to the forum, it is a tiny portion of that tiny portion that feels strongly enough to post and comment. I usually just ignore the forum and play, but I am waiting for the update to finish downloading and was curious if there was an official statement on the exploit with more detail yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekromantiker Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 the most player i know dont use this forum for informations about the game. they canot translat english... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenhole Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 On 2/6/2018 at 4:16 AM, DeningWei said: At the end of the day mass bans would have made WC a lot of money with people buying new accounts. I don't see how it isn't win win for WC imposing a ban. Id rather see abusers get banned making wc alot of money is far fetched if you have any idea what goes into developing software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouSpowells Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 9 hours ago, CovertLizard said: Come on now, this is entirely unfair. Firstly, people have a right to be mad and to express that anger, regardless of whether YOU feel it’s justifed or not. Secondly, it is justified in this case. Thirdly, the whole idea that people are just here to riot isn’t fair because many of the posters here enjoy the game, care about it’s future, and are generally angry and disappointed with how this situation has played out. Be honest, is a one sentence topic like sir peter so eloquently provided going to get the same visibility as a 20 page thread? Disregarding people’s perfectly valid point because they are angry or because there are many of them with the same point is dishonest. Admittedly my brush strokes seem broad without contextual clarification, but without it please don't believe that I'm happy cheaters aren't getting banned. Don't for a moment think that I believe this is fair, but there is a difference to be noted in one's approach. There's a difference between someone voicing disdain and someone crying with their face in the ashes. As someone who has played this game for years without using aimbots, duping exploits, or building under the mesh and foundation wiping tribes from below, I'm pretty bitter that a bunch of cheaters are getting off scot-free...especially considering I'm a victim of those exploits. I'm legit pissed that Wildcard couldn't figure this crap out years ago and nip it in the bud before a situation like this had to happen. As far as I'm concerned, this is on them... ...but I'm looking at this situation without my face on the ground, without soot in my eyes. I'm not getting the answers or results I would have preferred from a situation like this, but I'm also not making unrealistic demands suggesting WC do the "honorable" thing and implode their own company over it by banning a chunk of the community the size they have indicated they would have to. I'm not flying into fits of rage and histrionics, breaking forum rules to bait mods into banning me so I can accuse them of censoring anyone who says negative things. Neither are you. Neither are many others. Those crying with their face in the soot are. That's the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouSpowells Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 4 hours ago, vtallbloke said: TBH i dont get why they even mentioned it so extensively? IF they had no intention of banning anyone why even say so? Why not just say "we have found a long term exploit which we have fixed" leave it at that. I think Jats post was a mistake- All that has happenend is he alienated the player base that did not cheat. Sometimes (and only sometimes) less is more I'm assuming that - because if they didn't - the accusations would be far worse and would include the prospect of a coverup. The same player base would feel similarly alienated and players who already assume wild conspiracy theories of Wildcard would have only more fodder to stoke their furnaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lashton Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 delete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lashton Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 6 hours ago, Jerryn said: Please return to the topic, which does not include assumptions on the motives of the other person or how to have a debate. If your post is more about the person and not about the topic, please reconsider posting it. Thanks. Note: This is a general request and not targeted at any one individual. how about you front up why cheaters were not banned or base wiped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouSpowells Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, lashton said: im sure there some kind of law somewhere or code of conduct that they are abusing There isn't. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noodaboy Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 People just wanna play without the cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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