Aaronwilliams Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 they can't at this time, banning everyone involved in this matter would wipe 40%+ of their player base Yeah that is true but they would gain that back in the amount of players that stopped playing because of said cheatersSent from my SM-A520F using SurviveTheArk Community mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAmE Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, Daedros said: Yep, Wildcard is making a serious mistake in not perma banning the cheaters. I've been playing MMORPGs for 20+ years, since Ultima Online beta, and i've seen what cheaters can do to games if left unpunished. If left unchecked, cheaters will completely and utterly annihilate any semblance of balance or economy in a game. The devs need to come down on cheaters like a sledgehammer. No "three strikes you're out" crap, perma ban on first offense. Nip it at the bud. Come down on the cheaters so hard, that they'll think you're Rodrigo Duterte. That bus came and went long, long ago. There are cheaters, banned multiple times for cheating, that are rated among the higher of the Ark streamers, and in the top tribes. I'll be honest, no one should be surprised, shocked, even mildly, at Wildcard's position on this. They are notorious for their inability to deal with the cheater problem in any meaningful capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THESHREKONING Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 20 hours ago, Gannon said: What "vulnerabilities" did the update actually fix? Does anyone know? 20 hours ago, Danielnz00 said: anyone know what the vulnerability was? 20 hours ago, bluexminder said: what he said ^ IIRC, there were areas on the Ocean floor that people could exploit to sabotage bases by accessing them from under the map. Duping was also an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahlea Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 8 hours ago, LouSpowells said: I'm disappointed at the situation entirely...but there isn't a video game developer in history that's going to ban a massive chunk of their customer base (active and inactive) because some of that chunk used an exploit that was in the game for 2+ years. Had Wildcard addressed this exploit years ago, I would TOTALLY support banning all who were benefited by the exploit. 10 hours ago, LouSpowells said: I don't get the impression that they don't care. I get the impression that they care quite a bit, but they also know that if they banned all these players it would be the death of the game, the franchise, and the development studio. Considering it was their own fault the exploit existed for so long, it seems to me like they're trying to be fair. That doesn't mean they didn't screw up royally...it just means they aren't willing to martyr themselves on principle by blanket banning a massive chunk of their playerbase...many of which did nothing wrong. I agree that it's absurd...that's for damned sure. To me, based on their approach to this, it seems like they might have known about the exploit they're referring to but couldn't fix it until recently. I don't have any proof of that, but based on their statements and actions it seems likely. Hopefully at some point they do give more information...but at this point I find it extremely difficult to believe they weren't aware of the problem. To me it just seems like it took a long time to solve it and they're giving everyone the benefit of the doubt to account for not fixing it sooner. While I agree with you about banning, I must point out that where you seem to argue around the possibilities being banning or doing nothing (I'm assuming that's an answer to people calling for bans) and there are definitely more answers to it. I personally would prefer if they did something, just anything! Wipes seem to be a very good choice here. As I understood it on the announcement (which may arguably be very poorly phrased) they know who, or at least some of the people who, did it. Seems like a very easy solution to me. Wiping and not banning would not be such a PR issue. 2 hours ago, DJRone89 said: Speaking up in the instance won’t make a difference if what I linked turns out to be true. Here’s why I believe it to be true; duping only became rampant when server transfers opened up which was summer 2016, a year after the alleged exploit had started. The same goes for under meshing that only really started after The Center launched, again summer 2016. This known exploit has been a thing since August 2015. I don’t think the devs want this to get out but needed to bring something up to justify dropping the bigger than usual update out of nowhere. In this instance, it’s possible that banning people would literally destroy the game and/or be a PR nightmare. It's just so curious! So many times before, they just add patch notes along the lines of "Fixed an exploit". I mean, couldn't they just do that this time? Say they also fixed the maps to explain the huge update. Yeah, I'm in the chorus begging Wildcard for better communication, but this announcement really isn't it. It's giving no information and just pissing people off. Either give more information or not at all - even no information all I would consider better communication than vage, easily misunderstood and sparking-wild-speculation statements. 2 hours ago, DJRone89 said: Take it or leave it. This is awful and I’m glad I’m not apart of it, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. A taste so foul, after I throw in the hosting towel, I’d rather quit Ark than go back to official. Oh, I so very much agree! I really would love to be able to play official, but the way the officials are handled (and what I see of the official community on these forums) makes it very evident that, for me, that's a hell not to be attempted. 1 hour ago, DJRone89 said: But unofficials have admin abuse... Made me chuckle <3 It's funny how that seems to be a mantra to some people on officials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemplethwaite Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 6 hours ago, Probitas said: If they won't ban they won't ban, it's a sissy response to a serious problem though. But the fair thing would have been to do a total and complete wipe to square one for all servers, like they should have when they launched, like I had stated. And anytime there is a severe game breaking bug fixed they should do it again. That will teach cheaters not to cheat far more than any ban would. Something tells me WC doesn't have the stones for it though. They are afraid of the consequences. 6 hours ago, Probitas said: Yes. That is fair for all. The cheaters get forced back to square one without all their ill gotten gains. Everyone else starts over as well, as that is the fair thing to do if you won't ban cheaters. Otherwise, ban the cheaters. You can't have it both ways and claim it's fair when you basically do nothing at all. I think you Americans need to read up on your own history and why the Declaration of Independence came to be. WC is basically the crown telling us they know people broke the law, but that they will do nothing to upset the status quo, including no punishment. Meaning that if they punished the cheaters they (WC) would somehow be harmed. Not much different than taxing people for no reason except that you can. It's pretty damn insulting to the rest of the player base, except the majority of players won't touch the official with a 10 foot cattle prod, so what they've done is cemented the validity of player perception of Official servers as a haven for cheaters. It would be like making a law that says robbing a bank is illegal, catch you doing it, but letting you keep the money and not punish you turning your crime into a Government grant. (maybe not as severe, but the similarity is spot on) A total and complete wipe for all servers? What you propose here is to punish the innocent as well as the guilty which is a good way to drive everyone except cheaters away from the game. People who have played legitimately would be much harder hit by a wipe because they spent their time building what other obtained through nefarious actions. Or to use one of your own analogies, kill everyone in the town of Salem because, witches American Declaration of independence...WT actual Raptor are you on about!? The two things bare no relation to each other if you try to plug the various parties into your analogy British are wildcard and the american colonies are Ark, the playerbase are the settlers.....oh oh. The Cheaters will declare independence and take Ark away from wildcard. And by extension.....Hey America you're all cheaters according to Probitas. Give back what you have stolen from us!! Or maybe that's wrong maybe you meant The Cheaters are the British........Hey Britain, you're all cheaters according to Probitas Ark is the American colonies and Wildcard are the settlers trying to take back their game from the cheaters.....but who are the rest of the player base all available factions are already taken. Perhaps the playerbase does not exist. (Existential crisis time) Ok how about, Ark is the cheaters, the American colonies are wildcard and the British are the playerbase. Not sure who the bad guy is in this scenario, oh well let's just go for........Hey everyone you're all cheaters according to Probitas I would have tried more permutations but my brain has started to hurt, and the doctors say we can't have another coffee shop incident so I'd better lie down for a while till the feeling passes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21Georgo Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 22 hours ago, Zederia said: "Under normal circumstances, such an exploit would deem a global tribe wipe, and a comprehensive ban for all players involved from our Official Network, as well as BattlEye-protected servers. On this occasion, we have decided that we will be providing a one-time amnesty to everyone involved; this means that no one will be banned or wiped, as the impact of the action would have been too widescale and have a significant effect on our Official Servers." So, because they're mega-tribes they're immune from being banned, or wiped. Well, let's unban all the cheaters that VAC and battle-eye caught before too huh? you have PROOF people cheated and you're not going to take ANY action? What the hell? They deserve to be punished, PUNISH THEM! It would legit kill official pvp over night if they banned everyone involved in this exploit. Would easily reduce the official pvp community by 3/4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer Moderator GP Posted February 7, 2018 Volunteer Moderator Share Posted February 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, DeningWei said: So you get all those things in unofficial now? Why do you claim that there is no "real" community in an unofficial server, yet there is in an official server? What makes official different to unofficial to make unofficial not have "real" communities? I run an unofficial cluster, I have a Discord server setup for every one to join for information relating to the servers and for people to chat with each other etc. That is a "real" community. Where is the "real" community in official servers that unofficial servers don't have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeningWei Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, GP said: Why do you claim that there is no "real" community in an unofficial server, yet there is in an official server? What makes official different to unofficial to make unofficial not have "real" communities? I run an unofficial cluster, I have a Discord server setup for every one to join for information relating to the servers and for people to chat with each other etc. That is a "real" community. Where is the "real" community in official servers that unofficial servers don't have? Well I can understand the fact that there are different hierarchies of communities. There's this Ark community here in the forums. There's community within a tribe. And there is a community in an isolated server/server cluster. But in official there is a whole different level yet again, thousands and thousands of people, hundreds and thousands of servers. Most people having actual contact, discourse, and interaction with dozens of servers in their time playing and thousands of players. A large and popular part of this official site here is the trade, alliance, planning forums that are dedicated to that huge united group. You don't get that on unofficial, although in some rare case there is a large enough cluster and populations to partially simulate the official experience, so I do concede that not all unofficial servers are isolated ghost towns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSeconds Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Now that I think about it,is WildCard here making the statement that if you gather enough people and cheat together you're immune to being banned About the fact that no developer banned a huge chunk, this is not true. Look at MMORPG's for example. Banned so much people in 1 wave that their world activity was reduced by 50% but regained in actual players. A thing they also did for example is rollback individual accounts to wipe the cheat advantage. Action is a must, doing nothing gives the wrong statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RasFW Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 33 minutes ago, DeningWei said: So you get all those things in unofficial now? Where did you get the idea that unofficial clusters don't have people trading, allying, attacking? And that there is no community? Edit: I'm just saying, there are active and relatively large unofficial clusters. I'll gladly sacrifice not playing with 2000 people I don't know to have serves that run smoothly and operate as they should with active admin support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg12e Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 The vulnerabilitythey may be talking about was the temporary ability to upload dinos and gear from a single player game into a official and i believe most other servers or somthing like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer Moderator GP Posted February 7, 2018 Volunteer Moderator Share Posted February 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, DeningWei said: But in official there is a whole different level yet again, thousands and thousands of people, hundreds and thousands of servers. That is not a community, that is just thousands of servers with people on, doesn't constitute a community. 16 minutes ago, DeningWei said: Most people having actual contact, discourse, and interaction with dozens of servers in their time playing and thousands of players. A large and popular part of this official site here is the trade, alliance, planning forums that are dedicated to that huge united group. You don't get that on unofficial, although in some rare case there is a large enough cluster and populations to partially simulate the official experience, so I do concede that not all unofficial servers are isolated ghost towns. So basically you are defining a community based on the number of people, and obviously the larger the number of people the more servers there are. Unofficials have smaller numbers, but within those smaller numbers you generally have more friends, more alliances, more reliable trades, more fun and likely to get more people willing to help others. That is a pretty good community to me, and a lot of unofficial servers get that, regardless of how big they are or how many players they have. Just because on official servers you have access to thousands of servers doesn't make it a "real" community any more than unofficials have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer Moderator Captnmorgan Posted February 7, 2018 Volunteer Moderator Share Posted February 7, 2018 Friendly reminder name calling or abusive behavior will not be allowed. Please keep your conversations civil please. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberAngel67 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 On 06/02/2018 at 11:00 PM, Zederia said: quetz wasn't around in 2015 yes it was, it was introduced in October 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngrySaltire Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, CyberAngel67 said: yes it was, it was introduced in October 2015 Am pretty sure this argument has been resolved like 3 or 4 time now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSeconds Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Don't you guys think it is very noteworthy that this post almost has 15k views at the moment and still no official has replied or released a statement like "we'll be clearing this up soon". No disrespects towards the volunteer mods but I guess you guys know what I mean. Edit: Enjoy your popcorn for the ones sitting back and enjoying the show >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivar Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 6 hours ago, DeningWei said: Happy in a small, constricted space with no real idea of when the server will disappear unless you are the one paying for it? No trade, no real community? So many pros at least admin abuse is the only con. 2 map cluster I'm paying for is not exactly my definition of a "small, constricted space". Not sure what you're on about with the no trade or real community. Are you implying all my players are bots? Also what admin abuse? You reckon my cluster would have survived 2 years if there was such a thing as admin abuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer Moderator Joebl0w13 Posted February 7, 2018 Volunteer Moderator Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 hour ago, ZeroSeconds said: Don't you guys think it is very noteworthy that this post almost has 15k views at the moment and still no official has replied or released a statement like "we'll be clearing this up soon". It’s already been cleared up. They stated what they’ve done and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DJRone89 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Olivar said: 2 map cluster I'm paying for is not exactly my definition of a "small, constricted space". Not sure what you're on about with the no trade or real community. Are you implying all my players are bots? Also what admin abuse? You reckon my cluster would have survived 2 years if there was such a thing as admin abuse? Don’t waste your energy responding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekromantiker Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 found somthing on youtube. Building under the map...is it??? the answer from gamer to wc about the pillaring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedros Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, Nekromantiker said: found somthing on youtube. Building under the map...is it??? the answer from gamer to wc about the pillaring? It was far more than building under the map. It was a massive exploit that basically let you become the admin of an Official server... The "new" launch servers, are just as dirty as the old Legacy servers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirPeter Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Daedros said: The "new" launch servers, are just as dirty as the old Legacy servers... Were, were as dirty as the old Legacy servers (if the patch was successful)... well until the people, you know the ones who were abusing stuff who weren't banned figure something new out. haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekromantiker Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 item copy works onobi with server crashes and rollback?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migol Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 One point I'll make, if this is about duping structures/materials as some suggested earlier (keep in mind that's a big assumption, this could be about something like upgrading armor on gear or a way to boost stats via mindwipe tonic or something). But if it is, then you run into this problem: Player A and Player B started playing in 2015. They discovered/heard about this exploit that allowed them to build a really huge stone base by mass duping walls/ceilings/pillars/etc. instead of having to slowly farm them up. This gave them a huge advantage. Fast forward to the future. Player A and B recruited players C,D,E, and F, and player A no longer even plays, while Player B logs on occasionally. Player D actually runs the tribe, and neither him nor the rest know anything about the exploit or how it helped build the base they run. The dilemma wildcard would face here is that they'd be banhammering (or at least blowing up the base) of people who didn't know about or use the exploit. Moreover since Jath put the "since 2015" on there, I assume it's something that was used heavily in legacy servers (which are slowly dying anyway), but which they've now seen getting used on current servers. For my two cents, I'd let the "possibly impacts innocent players" tribes go, especially on legacy where they're basically decaying slowly anyway. If they caught any current players doing it on current, new-ish official servers (especially aberration), YES, please do Ban those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjsechrest Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I would point you all to the ark reddits for the answer (Lancaster and Subtitute explain in detail) The reddits "play ark and ark one" will give you the full despicable truth but I can't post a link to it or anything go look for it It saddens me to learn the full scope of how broken this game is. And I never wanted it to end like this but I can't continue on official Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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