Patch 277 Nerf To Tank Dinos

[LouSpowells]

12 minutes ago, AngrySaltire said:

Playing devils advocate here. Tank dinos take increased damage from turrets. Flip switch for PvP. Everyones happy.....

The issue isn't about the availability of a switch. The issue is what goes on behind the switch. The bird-pickup setting doesn't change anything about the mechanics of the bird, it removes one ability.

A setting for two different damage resistances on the same animal is a different beast. If implemented, from that point on the devs have to maintain two different balances for the same animal. This is something they've said they wouldn't do on the official version of the game...but they did give people the option to change that should they wish to do so.

 

[Uueerdo]

4 minutes ago, LouSpowells said:

A setting for two different damage resistances on the same animal is a different beast. If implemented, from that point on the devs have to maintain two different balances for the same animal. This is something they've said they wouldn't do on the official version of the game...but they did give people the option to change that should they wish to do so.

 

I'm not sure, but I don't think the original statement you were replying to was suggesting that. I think they were saying adjusting bullet resistance would have minimal impact on PVE, not that the dinos should have different resistances in PVE and PVP.

[AngrySaltire]

8 minutes ago, Uueerdo said:

I'm not sure, but I don't think the original statement you were replying to was suggesting that. I think they were saying adjusting bullet resistance would have minimal impact on PVE, not that the dinos should have different resistances in PVE and PVP.

Nah hes right I was suggesting two different scenarios that PvE and PvP should have different bullet resiatances ? At least thats what I ment. I was justing throwing an idea out there for a potential server setting difference.

 Truthly I understand that the devs dont want to have two different scenarios, it would make it too complicated further down the road. Although as you say I see no reason why they cant adjust bullet resistance to different dinos making it the same for PvP and PvE, I mean is it still that flyers receive increased damage from ranaged attacks ?  Who on PvE would worry about brontos taking increased damage from an auto turret.

[LouSpowells]

19 minutes ago, Uueerdo said:

I'm not sure, but I don't think the original statement you were replying to was suggesting that. I think they were saying adjusting bullet resistance would have minimal impact on PVE, not that the dinos should have different resistances in PVE and PVP.

You're correct, actually. After rereading the post I realized I misunderstood.

11 minutes ago, AngrySaltire said:

Nah hes right I was suggesting two different scenarios that PvE and PvP should have different bullet resiatances ? At least thats what I ment. I was justing throwing an idea out there for a potential server setting difference.

I think there are two different arguments being made. I agree with PCB's suggestion on principle, but I'm not sure what limitations there might be which might explain why WC didn't do it. Others are making the arugment that there should be two different balances, which I disagree with.

Sorry @SingleSidedPCB - I should have read more closely.

[Weiss]

1 hour ago, LouSpowells said:

That is a server setting, and has no relation to changing the mechanics and balances of dinos.

...so no. No it does not.

Meh, I don't really understand the meaning of "mechanic" then.

I thought grabbing (and inflicting dmg that way) would count as a that. That's the only thing that comes to my mind when thinking about dino differences between pve and pvp.

Edit: I didn't see the answer on the second page, you already explained.

1 hour ago, DJRone89 said:

So grabbing wild dinos is the same as reducing health points?

I honestly don't understand why you're asking that. No, it's not.

[SingleSidedPCB]

2 hours ago, LouSpowells said:

You're correct, actually. After rereading the post I realized I misunderstood.

I think there are two different arguments being made. I agree with PCB's suggestion on principle, but I'm not sure what limitations there might be which might explain why WC didn't do it. Others are making the arugment that there should be two different balances, which I disagree with.

Sorry @SingleSidedPCB - I should have read more closely.

No Problem, i could have explained it more clearly.

I feel the the optimal solution would be adding a bullet resistance to tamed dinos (de)buff mechanic. it's not perfect, but it would give the dev's desired effect of "nerfing" dinos in PvP while leaving the stats (and as a result PvE) alone. how many times have they nerfed the "tank" dinos in so many different ways.. i'd love the quetz, doed, carbo, bronto etc to have more than ramshackle values on ascendant saddles again..

[ciabattaroll]

4 hours ago, FrankTheCaesar said:

I know the whole premise is now some whacky sci-fi stuff, I used to be able to write the game off as a virtual reality type of thing (three units making a triangle to utilize electromagnetism AKA navigation across an unknown land) until Abberation came. Then the REAL weird things came lol. 

Griffins were okay, but then came DRAGONS. Okay, I can live with this, we could use an OP animal for endgame, but the Tek was ridiculously futuristic. Totally  ruined the prehistoric aspect and is now definitely sci-fi.

Maybe I was wrong in thinking this was a dinosaur survival/action game, and in PvP the speedmeleeclubbers break the “real” feel of PvP overall. Why shoot someone and properly gear up when you can move at 600mph and club them in the skull?

This doesn't make sense unless you're absolutely new to the game, at which point the sci-fi stuff is every bit as obvious as "dinosaur game". Dragons came before wyverns which came before griffins as far as implementation to the game goes.

[Inigo]

On 1/31/2018 at 12:44 PM, FrankTheCaesar said:

I know the whole premise is now some whacky sci-fi stuff, I used to be able to write the game off as a virtual reality type of thing (three units making a triangle to utilize electromagnetism AKA navigation across an unknown land) until Abberation came. Then the REAL weird things came lol. 

Griffins were okay, but then came DRAGONS. Okay, I can live with this, we could use an OP animal for endgame, but the Tek was ridiculously futuristic. Totally  ruined the prehistoric aspect and is now definitely sci-fi.

Maybe I was wrong in thinking this was a dinosaur survival/action game, and in PvP the speedmeleeclubbers break the “real” feel of PvP overall. Why shoot someone and properly gear up when you can move at 600mph and club them in the skull?

Sounds like you're salty, speed was never an issue until the Devs kept finding new and creative ways to ruin all the new and creative ways people found to PVP. Avg pvp speeds were 120-140 and that was only if you had to do an on foot PVP build, just enough to help avoid being picked and enough to get to cover if ya had to, as well as out maneuver people on the ground.

It wasnt until the Devs insisted that somehow a giant bird, flying lizard, etc, should somehow magically lose all of their speed if you attached C4 to them, that people once again found new creative ways to utilize the game to their favor, by dumping everything into speed... Remember before that it was people running around with MC and AC flak/Chitin and 600+ hitpoints dropped from pteras or quetzels.

I would say speed still isnt an issue. Put out some bear traps.

[Zederia]

2 hours ago, Inigo said:

I would say speed still isnt an issue. Put out some bear traps.

1

Speed is FAR too slow now. at over 50 levels in speed I still can't outrun much

[LouSpowells]

36 minutes ago, Zederia said:

Speed is FAR too slow now. at over 50 levels in speed I still can't outrun much

...it's almost like you're not intended to be able to outrun everything on foot. Strange.

[Orion]

On 1/31/2018 at 11:14 AM, RoyHess666 said:

A typical PvP only nerf.

I don't know how many times this must be said;

Ark is a PvP game at it's core, it is designed, balanced and geared around PvP. PvE is an optional game mode.

[LouSpowells]

14 minutes ago, Orion said:

I don't know how many times this must be said;

Ark is a PvP game at it's core, it is designed, balanced and geared around PvP. PvE is an optional game mode.

*citation needed

 

[Xyphre]

On 1/31/2018 at 10:42 AM, ForzaProiettile said:

I

These changes seem to have come out of the blue but I'm happy to see the game moving away from the boring meta of tanking turrets. That said the dev's haven't said what options they are going to give us in replace of this.

The current siege options are rubbish vs metal or higher. Take the current "best" siege weapon available the primitive cannon for instance. To destroy a single metal wall you need to shoot  28 cannon balls which costs 2253 ingots all up. That's 250 ingots shy of an entire industrial forge for a single metal wall that costs just 25 ingots. Clearly the current siege weapons are underperforming and near useless. I've been on some pretty big alpha vs alpha raids/fights and I can't recall anyone on either side using a cannon or other siege weapon. The closest thing I saw was a tribe trying to use the chain bola to bag some of our flies but as we all know they are also near useless and likewise that tribe failed to hit anything. Speaking of useless the homing rocket is extremely subpar but that's another topic.

I am hoping in the very near future a TEK siege weapon is added since its notably missing from the game at present. At the very least we need more alternatives to taking down fortifications now that current meta has been nerfed so hard.

It isn't out of the blue at all. They don't need to replace this for any reason. This nerf comes hand in hand with the turret nerf that needed to happen. Having dinos that could successfully tank thousands of turrets walk into a world where there is a 100 turret limitation is absurd. They nerf the dinos to scale there abilities with the new rules at hand. I still would love to see a tek diplo saddle with a forcefield on it. Not all tek sasddles need to be laser beams

 

Ps: Yes Water tames too. The turret nerf has cause a lot of tribes to hole themselves up in caves accessible only by water. if the turret placement is not thought out, then tusos and dunkies were a good choice for turret tanking.

[Zederia]

2 hours ago, LouSpowells said:

...it's almost like you're not intended to be able to outrun everything on foot. Strange.

it's almost as if you're not supposed to be able to do anything but take hits over and over again.. oh wait.. you couldn't survive a bite for a t-rex in real life, so that needs to be fixed and player health needs nerfed too..  strange..

[LouSpowells]

11 minutes ago, Zederia said:

it's almost as if you're not supposed to be able to do anything but take hits over and over again.. oh wait.. you couldn't survive a bite for a t-rex in real life, so that needs to be fixed and player health needs nerfed too..  strange..

Once again, the developers did not intend for players to outrun every dino on the map. Similarly, the developers did not intend for players to be able to face-tank every dino on the map.

This is a survival game. The developers provided tools within the game to help you survive. If you want to ignore tools or use the wrong ones, that's your prerogative...but outrunning every dino is not one of the tools the developers gave you, Gump.

[Zederia]

1 minute ago, LouSpowells said:

Once again, the developers did not intend for players to outrun every dino on the map. 

This is a survival game. The developers provided tools within the game to help you survive. 

 

Once again, you should be able to outrun SOME, but that is an effort in futility these days because they forgot everyone plays differently. also, swim speed is slower than walking now? when the hell was that ever a REAL thing? I swim pretty fast in real life, so why am I a crawling baby in ARK?

 

Survival.. yes, we like to throw that word around a lot to say "you need to just adapt to everything we say you should" the devs took away more tools than they added, so we got 1 tool, cool, we lost 6 at the same time

[TheDonn]

On 1/31/2018 at 8:50 AM, DeningWei said:

Defenders should always have a serious advantage.  You might complain about the 28 cannon balls to destroy a single wall, but you don't need to do that with every wall in the base.  Once you have a hole you are in.

That.  Is a really good point.  Attacking should not be LOL'ing down metal bases and GGing people off servers.

[TheDonn]

7 hours ago, Orion said:

I don't know how many times this must be said;

Ark is a PvP game at it's core, it is designed, balanced and geared around PvP. PvE is an optional game mode.

PvP is an optional game mode.  You can start and play only PvE, and PvP remains an -option- for you.

Your opinion doesn't change the irritation of PvP nerfs that affect PvE in strange ways.

[DarthaNyan]

You all can relax: patch 277 wont happen anymore.

Spoiler

because WC renamed it to v278 for some reason.

 

[LouSpowells]

6 hours ago, Zederia said:

Once again, you should be able to outrun SOME, but that is an effort in futility these days because they forgot everyone plays differently. also, swim speed is slower than walking now? when the hell was that ever a REAL thing? I swim pretty fast in real life, so why am I a crawling baby in ARK?

Survival.. yes, we like to throw that word around a lot to say "you need to just adapt to everything we say you should" the devs took away more tools than they added, so we got 1 tool, cool, we lost 6 at the same time

Yes. You lost the speed you had prior to the final release balancing. You and plenty of others are still reeling from the loss of stats that hadn't been set yet. The devs "took away" tools that were never intended to be in the final version of the game. Now, if only they gave you a way to balance the game to your tastes if you don't like their settings.

 

[Guest DJRone89]

23 minutes ago, LouSpowells said:

Yes. You lost the speed you had prior to the final release balancing. You and plenty of others are still reeling from the loss of stats that hadn't been set yet. The devs "took away" tools that were never intended to be in the final version of the game. Now, if only they gave you a way to balance the game to your tastes if you don't like their settings.

 

But players should be able to dictate to the devs how officials are run and balanced, and in no way have a choice otherwise.

[Zederia]

43 minutes ago, LouSpowells said:

Yes. You lost the speed you had prior to the final release balancing. You and plenty of others are still reeling from the loss of stats that hadn't been set yet. The devs "took away" tools that were never intended to be in the final version of the game. Now, if only they gave you a way to balance the game to your tastes if you don't like their settings.

 

that's BS, and the nerfs are FAR too heavy-handed, they don't go a little at  time, they set things to the floor, and barely push them up, this is rediculous

[Cullis]

On 31/01/2018 at 7:33 PM, FrankTheCaesar said:

 Shell or no shell, those bullets would tear dinosaurs to shreds. Evolution never thought we’d have guns or bullets. 

Lol. 

 

Most big animals kinda laugh at assault rifle bullets. Unless you hit the vitals. 

Why do you think there are big-game cartridges like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.577_Tyrannosaur ?

[AstrihKonnash]

On 31/01/2018 at 3:52 PM, Sharpshot879 said:

Can this please not affect pve pleaseee Wildcard 

 

Sadly everything WC does affect both PvP and PvE... flying across (PvE) Rag map (make that all maps) on a nerfed quetz is a major PITA

[MaximumCat]

On 1/31/2018 at 9:52 AM, Sharpshot879 said:

Can this please not affect pve pleaseee Wildcard 

 

PvP balance should not affect PvE and vice-versa, but in ARK, the devs only seem to care about balancing the game for PvP.