Will Spinos be the go-to mount for bosses after patch?

[Migol]

As the title says, here's the patch notes as they have them so far:

Quote

With the TLC pass, the Spinosaur will now be able to operate in both a bipedal and a quadruped stance. When on two legs the Spino will move slower but be able to bite and use its claws to do increased damage, while on four legs it will be able to move faster.

 

There's also verbage about a buff when it fights in water but that's irrelevant to the boss arenas (I think, is there any stream or such in the Ragnarok arena?).   In any event though, the Spino already has "comparable" damage to the rex if I remember correctly, less damage per attack but a faster attack speed.    Wondering if this pushes them over the big guy?   Guess time will tell.

[jpcab]

The king of the bosses should be always the Rex.

Others could be used ok i agree..but the King? Got be Rex. 

 

[Vaskur]

Spino has still less HP than a Rex. I think that´s the critical point. 

[banggugyangu]

If the devs would take a creative pass at a redesign of the boss fights, they could make interesting mechanics that allow for various strategies and promote gameplay that ISN'T the "THROW MORE ZERGLINGS AT IT!" strategy.

[Wazzamaniac]

1 hour ago, Vaskur said:

Spino has still less HP than a Rex. I think that´s the critical point. 

Yes. Spinos have the same hp as a thyla...

They should frankly switch megalo and spino hp. Megalo shouldnt be that tanky and spino shouldnt be that squishy.

[Migol]

48 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said:

Yes. Spinos have the same hp as a thyla...

They should frankly switch megalo and spino hp. Megalo shouldnt be that tanky and spino shouldnt be that squishy.

Well again that's also relevant, some people use Thyla's (which also have rex-equivalent dps) instead of rexes for fights, obviously a large part of this is sweet veggie cake.     Again, the question becomes "how much of a dps increase do spinos get when bipedal?"    If they're currently rex-equivalent, and become a good bit higher than a rex, then it seems like they might be more efficient (especially when ridden by an imprinted player for the damage and damage reduction buffs).

[Wazzamaniac]

55 minutes ago, Migol said:

Well again that's also relevant, some people use Thyla's (which also have rex-equivalent dps) instead of rexes for fights, obviously a large part of this is sweet veggie cake.     Again, the question becomes "how much of a dps increase do spinos get when bipedal?"    If they're currently rex-equivalent, and become a good bit higher than a rex, then it seems like they might be more efficient (especially when ridden by an imprinted player for the damage and damage reduction buffs).

You meant to say theris thylas are carnivores (no veg cakes) and i believe cannot enter bossfights due to being a climber dino.

Speaking of, theris ALSO get better hp than spinos.

[Migol]

12 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said:

ve cannot enter bossfights due to being a climber dino.

Speaking of, theris ALSO get better hp than spinos.

Long weekend raising Ravagers

 

[PuffyPony]

I don't think so. As a few people have pointed out, their HP remains pretty low, so unless their bipedal stance is pumping out 85+ DPS at base (Rex does 74.4 at base), then not a chance. They could become a plausible alternative for lower difficulty bosses, but TBH it seems to me that they'll more be the dominant non-boss option, as the ideal land-water hybrid.

[Lockjaw]

If Spino is even close to Rex level in the boss arena then Rex is completely redundant. Especially with the Spino's upcoming buffs he's just so much more useful outside the boss arenas. Frankly I'd say the same thing about Theri.

[FrostD]

Spino should be more bulky but do less damage than a Rex. It was larger than the Rex in real life, but its bite force was weaker.

Also, it's a good thing in my opinion that the Spino will get a buff while figting in water in the next TLC patch, that's a cool mechanic. 

[AdligerAdler]

I still can't imagine the spino running and standing on 2 legs.

[FaneBlackwing]

2 hours ago, Lockjaw said:

If Spino is even close to Rex level in the boss arena then Rex is completely redundant. Especially with the Spino's upcoming buffs he's just so much more useful outside the boss arenas. Frankly I'd say the same thing about Theri.

Not really. Rexes still have better health regardless and are much easier to find and tame than a Spino due to the easy kibble and the fact that Spinos can only be found in water.

Not to mention that they have overall better gather rates for mostly everything except Pelt and Fish meat.

Spinos will just perform in their niche much better, which is completely different from a Rex's.

[WolfBrink]

2 hours ago, AdligerAdler said:

I still can't imagine the spino running and standing on 2 legs.

This. Lol

[Lockjaw]

2 hours ago, FaneBlackwing said:

Not really. Rexes still have better health regardless and are much easier to find and tame than a Spino due to the easy kibble and the fact that Spinos can only be found in water.

Not to mention that they have overall better gather rates for mostly everything except Pelt and Fish meat.

Spinos will just perform in their niche much better, which is completely different from a Rex's.

Rexes have better health, but I'm not entirely convinced that that will translate into doing his own job better after Spino gets buffed. We'll just need to wait and see before we can say for sure. Even without his water buff the Spino will be both stronger and faster on land than he is now (not at the same time of course), and the water buff can be taken into a land fight on top of his already buffed damage. And he has no need to even be *almost* as good as the Rex at the Rex's job because he already has a massive advantage in just being semi-aquatic... even if Spino fans don't want to admit it. He has access the the high-end underwater loot which you typically can't get to with a Rex. I wouldn't have said anything if Rex had likewise been getting buffs to make him perform better in his niche, but he's not. In my opinion the current Spino is already balanced pretty well against Rex.

On a side note, it's not often talked about but Spino shouldn't be as strong as Megalodon either.

[Olivar]

Interesting how people make health the main issue for bosses when health is actually not that important compared to good saddles and damage output.

Will they replace the rex? Probably not.

Will they become a new viable alternative? Maybe.

The increased damage on the spino will be nice for boss fights making them more useful, but that requires more than just the damage boost.

Spinos still move sluggish and their turning radius is horrible. Without good saddles they are also pretty useless. Still haven't seen good spino saddles drop the, compared to the rex and theri saddles I have. Which means they take a lot more damage making them still too squishy overall.

So yay new damage, but as dedicated boss fighter? I have my doubts

[Hawks88]

I think still the rex

[TheKringle]

Spinos need to be buffed by an absurd amount to match a rex for boss fights.

@Olivar HP is so freaking important for alpha bosses, no idea what you're talking about m8. Just try beta or alpha ragnarok boss areana with anything less than 30k Hp on your rexes.

[Migol]

15 hours ago, Lockjaw said:

 And he has no need to even be *almost* as good as the Rex at the Rex's job because he already has a massive advantage in just being semi-aquatic... even if Spino fans don't want to admit it. He has access the the high-end underwater loot which you typically can't get to with a Rex.

On a side note, it's not often talked about but Spino shouldn't be as strong as Megalodon either.

Come on, if you've really go in the hard cave or for deep sea loot crates, you know that anything other than a basil or tuso is playing russian roulette against a level 5 jellyfish coming out of a wall/pillar and destroying your 200+ whatever.   (I have heard that crabs are also jellyfish/eel immune, haven't been able to test yet).   Until/unless they nerf the ocean stuns, there's a lot of unused aquatic dinos.

[Lockjaw]

39 minutes ago, Migol said:

Come on, if you've really go in the hard cave or for deep sea loot crates, you know that anything other than a basil or tuso is playing russian roulette against a level 5 jellyfish coming out of a wall/pillar and destroying your 200+ whatever.   (I have heard that crabs are also jellyfish/eel immune, haven't been able to test yet).   Until/unless they nerf the ocean stuns, there's a lot of unused aquatic dinos.

Ok. I do think that ocean stuns need a nerf. If nothing in the ocean is viable except the basil and tuso then they need to fix that, not balance the game as if no other aquatics exist.

Regardless though, my point still stands. Spino can do more than the Rex can do, so within the Rex's more limited niche he should be better than Spino. If their roles were identical then balance would demand that they be equally effective, but for all intents and purposes one of them would still be redundant, even if it adds a bit of diversity to boss fights.

[Migol]

Well, two things:

1) That's like saying "Well if it wasn't for the radiation then Ravagers would totally be viable in the red zone".    You have to acknowledge that Jellyfish are -everywhere- in Ragnarok and the Island, especially in the high loot situations in the Cave where they are literally in the walls, or in the rocks for the deep sea loot crates.

2) The rex is also getting a small buff in terms of a "poop stun".   Their roar is now a forced-poop, with diminishing returns.  

Again, not saying "The spino will be better!" because we don't know the facts about their dps increases for bipedal/water, but keeping an open mind to the idea.

[Lockjaw]

34 minutes ago, Migol said:

1) That's like saying "Well if it wasn't for the radiation then Ravagers would totally be viable in the red zone".    You have to acknowledge that Jellyfish are -everywhere- in Ragnarok and the Island, especially in the high loot situations in the Cave where they are literally in the walls, or in the rocks for the deep sea loot crates.

Not really. The difference being that Ravagers are not meant to be viable in the red zone, while Spinos are meant to be viable in the ocean. If they aren't able to do their intended job then that's something that needs to be addressed.

35 minutes ago, Migol said:

2) The rex is also getting a small buff in terms of a "poop stun".   Their roar is now a forced-poop, with diminishing returns.

Yeah that just barely qualifies as a buff. More of a "We know that it sucks that Rex is essentially getting nothing while everything else gets buffed through the roof, so we'll just toss something silly in there to lighten the mood and to say that Rex got something."

[Palenor]

On 1/29/2018 at 2:57 PM, Migol said:

"how much of a dps increase do spinos get when bipedal?"

I think the DPS will remain the same as it is now while on two feet with a reduced DPS while on 4 feet.

If anything it would get an additional attack for the bite, but will not exceed the existing DPS overall.

 

 

[Migol]

1 hour ago, Palenor said:

I think the DPS will remain the same as it is now while on two feet with a reduced DPS while on 4 feet.

If anything it would get an additional attack for the bite, but will not exceed the existing DPS overall.

 

 

That wouldn't be a buff, that'd be a pretty harsh nerf, which is the opposite of what they're asking.    Making the Spino go slower and change stances to do the same damage as it does now would be pretty awful for PR when they're advertising this as an improvement to the species.

[GGSDubSt3pz]

it's already hard to fit in 19 rexes + yuty. The spino has a way to big hitbox to bring in a good amount to fight a boss. Unless the new spino hitbox will be smaller, I don't think they will beat rexes.