Jump to content

Welcome our new Argy overlords! (Beaver vs Argy)


DarthaNyan

Recommended Posts

Have to say since reading about new saddle our tribes been  out knocking out argies 130+ looking to start new breeding line and we havent found one bird with stats good enough to warrant taming. also had the same problem with rexes, 2 months of knocking out rexes for no result ended up buying eggs. Wondering if devs have lowered high stats to make people breed more for mutations to get those high numbers. Maybe we are just really unlucky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 65
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Just throwing in my 2 cents...

I personally think the Argentavis is already in a fairly good spot. The facelift/design changes are welcome, especially to show off that it is in fact a vulture. However:

Vultures typically prey on creatures that are either too weak/small to defend themselves or creatures that are already dead. Argentavis honestly shouldn’t be as hardy as they are considering they are a vulture. Most vultures are “skittish” and employ hit and run tactics. I’d suggest reducing their overall health, and increase their Regen.

Perhaps it could be made so that Argies automatically harvest “spoiled meat” when killing an enemy? Or even cause meat to spoil faster while it’s in their inventory? They would then have a role as the primary spoiled meat gatherer to aid in making narcotics/tranqs. In addition, Argies eating Spoiled Meat could also give them slightly more health than eating Raw Meat and would additionally restore a small amount of stamina. This would help solidify the Argentavis’ position as a vulture that hits and runs to take down their prey, each kill granting them the health and stamina Regen necessary to use such tactics.

Argies really don’t need the smithy saddle. Adding this just makes Argies even better than they already are, especially when you compare them to other flyers. A “Vulture” shouldn’t be so versatile. Give them the spoiled meat gatherer role and allow them to carry creatures in both their mouth and claws. That’s all they need really. If a smithy is desired for a flying mount, then the most obvious candidate is the Griffin. It’s more of a versatile creature and would fit the role much better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Arbitrator said:

Perhaps it could be made so that Argies automatically harvest “spoiled meat” when killing an enemy? Or even cause meat to spoil faster while it’s in their inventory? They would then have a role as the primary spoiled meat gatherer to aid in making narcotics/tranqs.

I think that role should be on one of the dinos that utilizes the spoiled meat themselves - scorpions. It is also an early game tame where you might need more spoiled meat for narcotics.

8 minutes ago, Arbitrator said:

If a smithy is desired for a flying mount, then the most obvious candidate is the Griffin. It’s more of a versatile creature and would fit the role much better.

No. Making versatile creature even more versatile does not mean better. Smithy saddle implies either higher weight limit or material weight reduction bonuses and Griffin needs neither of those on top of what it has, imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Orion said:

Both of these used to be true on these dinosaurs before the Flyer Nerf.

Pteranodon without a cooldown on it's Barrel Roll was considered too oppressive. It could be used to fly faster than base, and with the damage it does, it made it a very lethal flyer.

Quetzal used to regenerate Stamina when you would dismount it mid-air, but having to never land during a raid maid them also oppressive.

Yeah but without them the game is fully sh#t. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Arbitrator said:

Just throwing in my 2 cents...

I personally think the Argentavis is already in a fairly good spot. The facelift/design changes are welcome, especially to show off that it is in fact a vulture. However:

Vultures typically prey on creatures that are either too weak/small to defend themselves or creatures that are already dead. Argentavis honestly shouldn’t be as hardy as they are considering they are a vulture. Most vultures are “skittish” and employ hit and run tactics. I’d suggest reducing their overall health, and increase their Regen.

Perhaps it could be made so that Argies automatically harvest “spoiled meat” when killing an enemy? Or even cause meat to spoil faster while it’s in their inventory? They would then have a role as the primary spoiled meat gatherer to aid in making narcotics/tranqs. In addition, Argies eating Spoiled Meat could also give them slightly more health than eating Raw Meat and would additionally restore a small amount of stamina. This would help solidify the Argentavis’ position as a vulture that hits and runs to take down their prey, each kill granting them the health and stamina Regen necessary to use such tactics.

Argies really don’t need the smithy saddle. Adding this just makes Argies even better than they already are, especially when you compare them to other flyers. A “Vulture” shouldn’t be so versatile. Give them the spoiled meat gatherer role and allow them to carry creatures in both their mouth and claws. That’s all they need really. If a smithy is desired for a flying mount, then the most obvious candidate is the Griffin. It’s more of a versatile creature and would fit the role much better.

I agree, although the way Argys are right now is the kind of bird I want and if that were changed, I'd want another bird to take its place and I wouldn't have as much (or at all) use for the Argys anymore. Basically, I very much agree, but still hope they don't change it :P 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

adding smithy capability to the argy saddle is overkill especially considering it can pick up a beaver and take it where it needs to go.

Why don't they just give the argy a wing attack like the wyv and make it gather wood and thatch too while they are at it. Let's make the beaver more useless. /s

beaver has already been nerfed when they boosted mammoth wood reduction. As it is, the beaver has become a overglorified smithy with some wood gathering capability. Now that is even being taken away.

It renders the beaver saddle obsolete because the argy has better carry weight which means you will be able to fit more ingots and heavy matts into it's inventory to craft better grade saddles.

Give it resource weight reduction for stuff you find on top of mountains and cliffs. Crystal and obsidian. No problem. but smithy capability makes no sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, AngrySaltire said:

As excited as I am for the argy tlc pass I have just realised there no mention of the argy (or any other flyer) getting a similiar dive and glide mechanic to the griffin. Been hoping for an update as such for flyers but got a feeling I am going to be disappointed 

Put your support in the General/Dino TLC Suggestions and Feedback thread. I've got that suggestion in there. All birds should have that mechanic imo, the current mechanic is the first "whatever will work" mechanic when building the first version of the game. It's way overdue for a rework / upgrade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Demerus said:

adding smithy capability to the argy saddle is overkill especially considering it can pick up a beaver and take it where it needs to go.

Why don't they just give the argy a wing attack like the wyv and make it gather wood and thatch too while they are at it. Let's make the beaver more useless. /s

beaver has already been nerfed when they boosted mammoth wood reduction. As it is, the beaver has become a overglorified smithy with some wood gathering capability. Now that is even being taken away.

It renders the beaver saddle obsolete because the argy has better carry weight which means you will be able to fit more ingots and heavy matts into it's inventory to craft better grade saddles.

Give it resource weight reduction for stuff you find on top of mountains and cliffs. Crystal and obsidian. No problem. but smithy capability makes no sense.

To be honest I am looking forward to having another choice of smithy animals. I will still be using a beaver after the tlc hits but if the smithy saddle goes on the argy I will still like the utility the beaver offers. Maybe the beaver will get a buff in the tlc pass or maybe the argy will get a weight nerf. I mean a few other non 'tlc' dinos are getting stat nerfs/buffs in phase 1 at least provisionally. We still dont know what is planned for phase 2 tlc in which the tlc argy is coming, they could rebalance the beaver and/or argy to accomodate the argy saddle. Again I like the choice this change will offer.

53 minutes ago, Milsurp said:

Put your support in the General/Dino TLC Suggestions and Feedback thread. I've got that suggestion in there. All birds should have that mechanic imo, the current mechanic is the first "whatever will work" mechanic when building the first version of the game. It's way overdue for a rework / upgrade.

Deffinatly. Ever since the introduction of the griffin and even the rock drake and glide suit it has never been more apparant how obsolete and outdated the current flying mechanics are. I want to dive on an argy dammit lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 28/01/2018 at 10:06 PM, DarthaNyan said:

i'm pretty sure that they will be able to carry in claws same set of dinos they currently have. And additionally small creatures (the set ptera can carry) in beak.

If you put blueprint in dino's inventory and all the mats as well - you can craft from it.

That's not what it says in the dev post...

The Argent will be carrying heavier than current creatures in its talons, while its beak will be able to support the weight of smaller creatures.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's kind of weird the Argy is getting this much buff. The entire purpose of the flyer nerf was to make the ground game more attractive by comparison. But Argy's are still the #1 choice for going somewhere to harvest because of the weight / combat capability, and imo that made the flyer nerf pretty useless (they should have nerfed flyer weight and carry size instead of speed imo).

So buffing the Argy for utility now pretty much goes against the entire purpose of the flyer nerf as it weakens the ground game again. Why do it? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Milsurp said:

It's kind of weird the Argy is getting this much buff. The entire purpose of the flyer nerf was to make the ground game more attractive by comparison. But Argy's are still the #1 choice for going somewhere to harvest because of the weight / combat capability, and imo that made the flyer nerf pretty useless (they should have nerfed flyer weight and carry size instead of speed imo).

So buffing the Argy for utility now pretty much goes against the entire purpose of the flyer nerf as it weakens the ground game again. Why do it? 

Because the way they went about in was uncreative and unprofessional to begin with. Seems to me they might have finally learned their lesson that a lot of people like this game far less when they take the fun pieces of content and make them subpar. They have also made big buffs to Rexs, apes, bears, and it seems like there's going to be a third and maybe even fourth wave. It will be interesting to see what they do with the other land, sea, and air creatures.

One thing that might be possible to do to flyers in PVP is give their wings the same damage weakness to ranged ammo as the head. I believe head is X3 right? They could make wings X3 and head X5. Pl us let's be honest WC did already say in the main thread some stats will get weaker so flyers might be getting even stronger STAM loss penalties and that's fair enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, ChargingParacerParacer said:

Because the way they went about in was uncreative and unprofessional to begin with. Seems to me they might have finally learned their lesson that a lot of people like this game far less when they take the fun pieces of content and make them subpar. They have also made big buffs to Rexs, apes, bears, and it seems like there's going to be a third and maybe even fourth wave. It will be interesting to see what they do with the other land, sea, and air creatures.

One thing that might be possible to do to flyers in PVP is give their wings the same damage weakness to ranged ammo as the head. I believe head is X3 right? They could make wings X3 and head X5. Pl us let's be honest WC did already say in the main thread some stats will get weaker so flyers might be getting even stronger STAM loss penalties and that's fair enough.

But the way they went about the flyer nerf has *nothing* to do with the incoming utility buffs to the argy. The biggest factor there has been a statement (Dev Q&A, I think) that as part of the TLC pass, the flyer nerf will become a toggleable INI setting. THAT's an admission that people liked it better the other way, and I'm so very happy to see it! But this is a major out-of-the-blue buff to ONE creature's utility. 

Has anyone seen anyone even ASKING for argy utility buffs? It's already got twice the weight and carry size ability that seems reasonable for a bird, and as I mentioned above, you can just carry a smithy and platform if you want to smith something somewhere.

And it will get TWO carryables? This seems like OP City now, and I'm at a loss as to why this is even a thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/29/2018 at 1:01 AM, shiny said:
  • Custom Consumables may be used by tamed dinos. This appears to only grant the Stamina effect of the consumable. This may be useful for flying mounts, making it possible to cover extremely large areas without landing on a low-Stamina bird. It may also be useful as an emergency consumable to prevent a mount from automatically landing in a dangerous area when its stamina runs out.

https://ark.gamepedia.com/Custom_Consumable

That's interesting, I've never gotten it to work.  Tried it most recently after the game went "live" and it didn't work.  I'll give it another go.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Milsurp said:

And it will get TWO carryables? This seems like OP City now, and I'm at a loss as to why this is even a thing.

I think 2 carryables are the least concerning ability as it will rarely be used. The only sensible use for using beak as transport is to carry Lystro for exp buff and keep leg talons free to be able to produce damage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

I think 2 carryables are the least concerning ability as it will rarely be used. The only sensible use for using beak as transport is to carry Lystro for exp buff and keep leg talons free to be able to produce damage.

that depends on what will be carryable. It's nice they're creating new features, but I would think the griffin should get the additional beak carryable. It can only carry small in its claws, and when carrying it loses all of its special speed ability. The other mounts don't lose anything by carrying, so to me the griffin actually feels like it could use a carry special ability way more than the argy (second-best flying carrier in the game  with wyvern being #1).

Long story short, I just don't see the reason for the focus on argy utility buffs. Are they trying to make using the argy more attractive vs wyverns? If so, that's a fast road to power creep unless they take something away to maintain balance. And what would that be? Halve the weight? Double the stam consumption? Lower the melee? Whatever it is, it's not going to make people happy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Milsurp said:

But the way they went about the flyer nerf has *nothing* to do with the incoming utility buffs to the argy. The biggest factor there has been a statement (Dev Q&A, I think) that as part of the TLC pass, the flyer nerf will become a toggleable INI setting. THAT's an admission that people liked it better the other way, and I'm so very happy to see it! But this is a major out-of-the-blue buff to ONE creature's utility. 

Has anyone seen anyone even ASKING for argy utility buffs? It's already got twice the weight and carry size ability that seems reasonable for a bird, and as I mentioned above, you can just carry a smithy and platform if you want to smith something somewhere.

And it will get TWO carryables? This seems like OP City now, and I'm at a loss as to why this is even a thing.

My point was it seems they finally figured out people don't like weak content. the Argy did already gave a lot of stregths already but then again so did Rexs, bears, and wolves. As far as Argies specifically i have seen people on here say multiple times that they wish Argies were faster. Instead of actually making them faster and contradicting their previous change they buffed them in other ways. 

I don't think we will need to worry about the double carry on a large scale just like there hasn't been large scale, objective problems with the Karkinos. I'm tentatively trying to put a little of myy trust back in WC by hoping they are actually ghinking about how the mechanics all interact with each other and assuming that some of the land creatures will have strong counter tactics. 

I'm startinh to wonder how much better they can make Brontos and Paracers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/29/2018 at 3:02 AM, gsneale said:

Have to say since reading about new saddle our tribes been  out knocking out argies 130+ looking to start new breeding line and we havent found one bird with stats good enough to warrant taming. also had the same problem with rexes, 2 months of knocking out rexes for no result ended up buying eggs. Wondering if devs have lowered high stats to make people breed more for mutations to get those high numbers. Maybe we are just really unlucky.

you are not going to find any stats better than the eggs you could buy pre tame need those bonus level from the tame to see what they really become and you can get some massive jumps with those had a 220% dmg mega jump up to 402% post tame and it was only a 135 so just need to get silly lucky

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/29/2018 at 1:38 AM, Zahlea said:

Yeah, I agree. I always thought it weird the Doed couldn't be carried as it's quite small. Had to make up an excuse in my mind that the shell and build of it made it massively heavy :P

I decided it was the shape making them hard to grip. (Kinda like trying to pick up a ball with one of those claw machines.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 28.1.2018 at 11:29 AM, DarthaNyan said:

I think it is about time for someone to bring up the issue that Argies post TLC will greatly outclass beavers in utility:

++ Argies can fly (beavers can swim tho)
+ Argies have higher base weight which means that they gain more per wild level AND they gain more weight per domesticated level (5.5% on argies vs 4% on beavers).
+ Argies will be capable of rapid healing by killing stuff.
+ Argies can carry dinos.
= Argies will gain weight reduction to some materials, probably same set or close to beaver's.
= smithy saddle on both.
- beavers can farm wood (but outclassed at it by other creatures)

So as a portable smithy weight-trained Argy will be vastly superior to Beaver: 50 wild levels + 100% imprint + 50 tamed levels on a beaver is 2160 weight, same setup on an argy is 3600 weight.

Due to flyer change, Argies do not spend points into speed making it way easier to find ones with 55+ points into weight.

A Smithy Saddle on a Argy? Thats sounds a bit strong.. .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...