Night vision goggles way OP...

[Xenithar]

Alright, hear me out here. I've used military night vision headsets as well as vehicular-mounted IR sets. The goggles in Ark are as good as if not much better than what is on our tanks right now. This doesn't make sense. The IR systems mounted on vehicles use entire IR arrays to get range and require a bit of power to run. The goggles in Ark can currently see from corner to corner on The Island, which is many many miles. Unless the goggles are Tek-based (put them in the Tek tier) then I feel they are just WAY too OP. Real goggles can see around 500 yards in the dark but recognition (clarity) is only up to about 100 yards. That is the distance where you can tell the difference between a dog and a deer or female and male human. With the ones in Ark I can see mountainous details miles away!

So I want to ask if anybody else feels that maybe the goggles are a hair too good, especially where they are in the tree. The effect is good, but they're cheap to make and far better than anything we have today. Opinions?

[RasFW]

Ever just try pressing tab and typing "gamma 4" at night?

 

No need for goggles at all.

[Zederia]

7 minutes ago, RasFW said:

Ever just try pressing tab and typing "gamma 4" at night?

 

and that's what I miss about the old days, before the mainstream run where Gamma is enabled. there was a certain challenge to the game you do not have now

[RasFW]

2 minutes ago, Zederia said:

and that's what I miss about the old days, before the mainstream run where Gamma is enabled. there was a certain challenge to the game you do not have now

Me too. There are always ways around it tho that allow people to get an edge. Graphics card and monitor settings, etc.

 

They probably changed it to level the playing field a bit.

[noodaboy]

3 minutes ago, Zederia said:

and that's what I miss about the old days, before the mainstream run where Gamma is enabled. there was a certain challenge to the game you do not have now

I know!  When chopping wood for your thatch hut require doing it on daytime, and being stuck inside during nighttime.  Good ol days

[Wazzamaniac]

22 minutes ago, Xenithar said:

Alright, hear me out here. I've used military night vision headsets as well as vehicular-mounted IR sets. The goggles in Ark are as good as if not much better than what is on our tanks right now. This doesn't make sense. The IR systems mounted on vehicles use entire IR arrays to get range and require a bit of power to run. The goggles in Ark can currently see from corner to corner on The Island, which is many many miles. Unless the goggles are Tek-based (put them in the Tek tier) then I feel they are just WAY too OP. Real goggles can see around 500 yards in the dark but recognition (clarity) is only up to about 100 yards. That is the distance where you can tell the difference between a dog and a deer or female and male human. With the ones in Ark I can see mountainous details miles away!

So I want to ask if anybody else feels that maybe the goggles are a hair too good, especially where they are in the tree. The effect is good, but they're cheap to make and far better than anything we have today. Opinions?

Idk about you but since gamma is in the game I know of exactly 0 people who actually use them. They also do not work during the day. Right now theyre a gimmick that is surpassed by tek helmet, tek railgun and... gamma so I wouldnt say they are OP, even if they are unrealistic. Nerfing them would lower their use even further

[Zederia]

1 minute ago, Wazzamaniac said:

Idk about you but since gamma is in the game I know of exactly 0 people who actually use them. They also do not work during the day. Right now theyre a gimmick that is surpassed by tek helmet, tek railgun and... gamma so I wouldnt say they are OP, even if they are unrealistic. Nerfing them would lower their use even further

problem is they're worthless now because WC caved to the masses (of bobs and janes) and put in gamma. They ignored us and only listened to the new players

[FrankTheCaesar]

Yeah I was legit reported by a tribe after I killed all of them at night, they couldn't see a thing yet I killed them with perfect accuracy at max gamma settings  They all had disease as well. GLOWING green right above their heads.

People as a general whole are so stupid. I'm surprised we've managed to survive for so long. I guess it's because of the alpha humans and Einsteins like myself, carrying the rest of the sheep with us. 

Oh, I forgot. I'M NEGAN.

[RainbowPuke]

NEGAN ? vegan is for veggie... negan... holy crap you're a kind of raciste cannibal ??????

[FrankTheCaesar]

Racist? What? My brain hurts from witnessing such low intelligence! You defiled me!

[Rofelo]

Its a Walking Dead Reference

[LouSpowells]

3 hours ago, Xenithar said:

Alright, hear me out here. I've used military night vision headsets as well as vehicular-mounted IR sets. The goggles in Ark are as good as if not much better than what is on our tanks right now. This doesn't make sense. The IR systems mounted on vehicles use entire IR arrays to get range and require a bit of power to run. The goggles in Ark can currently see from corner to corner on The Island, which is many many miles. Unless the goggles are Tek-based (put them in the Tek tier) then I feel they are just WAY too OP. Real goggles can see around 500 yards in the dark but recognition (clarity) is only up to about 100 yards. That is the distance where you can tell the difference between a dog and a deer or female and male human. With the ones in Ark I can see mountainous details miles away!

So I want to ask if anybody else feels that maybe the goggles are a hair too good, especially where they are in the tree. The effect is good, but they're cheap to make and far better than anything we have today. Opinions?

I've shot a rifle IRL and I've shot one in-game. The in-game rifle lacks any semblance of external ballistics physics, realistic breathing movement suppression, a scope that has accurate and properly sighted crosshairs, and real-world bolt-action reload times. Aside from aesthetics and general operation similarities, the Longneck Rifle in Ark isn't like any other bolt-action in the world. Also the game has mythical creatures and dinosaurs you can tame and ride. What I'm trying to say here is that if you're looking for realism, Ark isn't the place. Night vision goggles would - to me - be the very last place to start if you want to poke holes in the realism of Ark.

...it's kind of like watching that National Treasure movie and thinking, "There's no way lemon juice would have revealed the secret treasure message on the back of the Constitution! That's unrealistic!"

[Futurelord]

I would use them if they did not lose durability from simply wearing them, that's silly. Regular helmets dont lose durability until they are hit by something, no reason the goggles should lose durability because your head is a little sweaty.

[Default77]

Aren't they pretty expensive to run? I dont imagine why just using gamma would be a hassle. Nvgs are really useless if you take gamma in to account.

[Wazzamaniac]

2 hours ago, Futurelord said:

I would use them if they did not lose durability from simply wearing them, that's silly. Regular helmets dont lose durability until they are hit by something, no reason the goggles should lose durability because your head is a little sweaty.

Repairing them only requires a bit of materials, so youre technically not "fixing" them but "recharging" them 

[Xenithar]

18 hours ago, LouSpowells said:

I've shot a rifle IRL and I've shot one in-game. The in-game rifle lacks any semblance of external ballistics physics, realistic breathing movement suppression, a scope that has accurate and properly sighted crosshairs, and real-world bolt-action reload times. Aside from aesthetics and general operation similarities, the Longneck Rifle in Ark isn't like any other bolt-action in the world. Also the game has mythical creatures and dinosaurs you can tame and ride. What I'm trying to say here is that if you're looking for realism, Ark isn't the place. Night vision goggles would - to me - be the very last place to start if you want to poke holes in the realism of Ark.

...it's kind of like watching that National Treasure movie and thinking, "There's no way lemon juice would have revealed the secret treasure message on the back of the Constitution! That's unrealistic!"

Well there's your problem! The Winchester High Wall is a "lever-action" rifle, not a bolt-action, and the in-game rifle appears to be one or at least based on one. My K98k from WWII is a bolt-action with a five-round magazine, entirely different mechanics. Also, I do believe tranq darts drop off so there's that.

I wasn't suggesting that Ark try to be the next Infiltration and model everything with real-world physics. What you've stated above is a tad extreme. There's an ocean of difference between trying to be exact in every way on every item and stating that a single item lights up the entire planet unlike anything in recorded history. I was asking if others felt that the NV goggles lit up with clarity way too far out, allowing for clear view nearly across the entire map as opposed to a few hundred yards. I was not suggesting that the entire game be held to real-world physics. In fact I believe with the way that the game works you DO need those goggles to see farther than ours, but across the entire planet, beyond where other players and creatures even spawn in? That seems OP.

Also, this may sound like I am beating a dead horse, but we don't have gamma issues on my unofficial cluster. See, we can disable that crap too. Oh, and we can do it in PvP or PvE.

	DisablePvEGamma=true/false
	DisablePvPGamma=true/false
	

I have the ability to adjust gamma disabled on my cluster. Now we all get to flounder in the dark together. Seriously though, a good monitor (CRT being the best) helps immensely in the dark. LCD is probably the worst for the dark due to the low contrast ratios.

*EDIT*

Here's the link to the patch which added PvP gamma.

https://ark.gamepedia.com/174.3

[Pipinghot]

23 hours ago, Xenithar said:

Alright, hear me out here. I've used military night vision headsets as well as vehicular-mounted IR sets. The goggles in Ark are as good as if not much better than what is on our tanks right now. This doesn't make sense. The IR systems mounted on vehicles use entire IR arrays to get range and require a bit of power to run.

So you're trying to compare real world technology in the year 2017 to a fantasy, imaginary, sci-fi game in the far distant future (or possibly a parallel universe, depending on your view of the game lore). Beyond that, you're making that comparison for a game in which humans and dinosaurs co-exist, and you can tame animals that clearly would never, ever be tameable if realism had anything, anything at all, to do with this game.

Not only is it a bad idea to use "realism" as an argument for how things should work in a game, you're not even making a valid comparison. The technology that is available to us now, on present day Earth has nothing to do with the technology available in the ARK game universe. There are a lot of things in ARK we don't have, night vision goggles are just the tiny tip of the iceberg.

If you want to try to make a case based on game play, and game balance, then go for it, but any argument based on "realism" is dead before it starts.

 

[Pipinghot]

22 hours ago, Zederia said:

problem is they're worthless now because WC caved to the masses (of bobs and janes) and put in gamma. They ignored us and only listened to the new players

No, that's not it at all. It has always been possible to change gamma, you just had to use video card utilities outside of the game to do it.

WC didn't "cave to the masses", they decided that raising & lowering gamma should not be a trick that was only available to players with more technical knowledge about how their computers work, and should be equally available to all players so that success or failure is not determined by how technical someone is. Success at a game should not be based on uncommon technical knowledge that allowed a small group of people to be able to cheat without ever having the risk of getting caught. All WC did was level the playing field, so that people who were only "good" because they know about gamma now have to compete on an equal footing with all players.

 

[Pipinghot]

1 hour ago, Xenithar said:

I wasn't suggesting that Ark try to be the next Infiltration and model everything with real-world physics. What you've stated above is a tad extreme. There's an ocean of difference between trying to be exact in every way on every item and stating that a single item lights up the entire planet unlike anything in recorded history.

The game does not take place in recorded history. That argument is a non-starter.

[Xenithar]

6 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

So you're trying to compare real world technology in the year 2017 to a fantasy, imaginary, sci-fi game in the far distant future (or possibly a parallel universe, depending on your view of the game lore). Beyond that, you're making that comparison for a game in which humans and dinosaurs co-exist, and you can tame animals that clearly would never, ever be tameable if realism had anything, anything at all, to do with this game.

Not only is it a bad idea to use "realism" as an argument for how things should work in a game, you're not even making a valid comparison. The technology that is available to us now, on present day Earth has nothing to do with the technology available in the ARK game universe. There are a lot of things in ARK we don't have, night vision goggles are just the tiny tip of the iceberg.

If you want to try to make a case based on game play, and game balance, then go for it, but any argument based on "realism" is dead before it starts.

 

OK genius, you've missed the point. This isn't Tek tier. It's a standard set of NVG which look very similar to the pair of EOTech I have hanging on the wall in my armament room. The Tek helmet does the EXACT same night vision that these do. So in other words, the goggles are as good as the Tek helmet. That was the entire point. The goggles are as good as the alient technology you can only obtain by beating and then grinding bosses for the power source. I do not know how to break it down any simpler.

So there is your in-game comparison. One of the ultimate items is only as good as the NVG at night vision, meaning the NVG either need some description stating they use alien technology or they need a tone-down.

6 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

The game does not take place in recorded history. That argument is a non-starter.

Nobody said it did. Way off-point.

[LouSpowells]

3 hours ago, Xenithar said:

OK genius, you've missed the point. This isn't Tek tier. It's a standard set of NVG which look very similar to the pair of EOTech I have hanging on the wall in my armament room. The Tek helmet does the EXACT same night vision that these do. So in other words, the goggles are as good as the Tek helmet. That was the entire point. The goggles are as good as the alient technology you can only obtain by beating and then grinding bosses for the power source. I do not know how to break it down any simpler.

So there is your in-game comparison. One of the ultimate items is only as good as the NVG at night vision, meaning the NVG either need some description stating they use alien technology or they need a tone-down.

He didn't miss the point. Congratulations for having the nice set of NVG hanging on your armament room wall. Quite the feather in your cap to have the real-life version of an item you can make in game. I wish I had the real world equivalent of an in game item from Ark. On second thought though...

I have a pair of cloth pants I'm wearing right now. They're functionally similar to the cloth pants I've used in Ark. A few years back I was wearing a pair these cloth pants on a downhill longboarding run when I hit a pothole at ~45mph. I bounced a bit and slid to a stop after about 50 or so yards down the road. My cloth pants got shredded up pretty bad to the point I had road rash all over my calf, thighs, and back. My cloth shirt got pretty torn up too. For some reason when this happened my shirt and pants didn't disappear off my body and appear broken inside my own personal inventory of things. They just hung loosely from my body...perhaps I should have tried looking for some fiber on the ground to fix them. The worst part was that I didn't have any medical brews to heal myself from the gravel in my skin and exposed muscle. Must have forgotten them when I left my base.

I know...I probably should have been wearing my hide armor, but it was hot outside and the suit was made some dye made from blackberries to make my hide armor black, which would have made it even hotter. I didn't want to overheat because my fortitude isn't high enough and I didn't have any ghillie boots or gloves to provide exothermic comfort. It would have been nice if I did though, because if my hide gear got torn up, all I'd need is a hand stitcher, some more hide, and loose fiber to sew in patches to repair my armor. I don't imagine it would have disappeared off my body though. That said, I was wearing protective helmet armor. My head hit the pavement so hard my helmet armor broke...but for some reason it stayed right on my head when it hit the ground and cracked. I'm really glad it didn't disappear. The second somersault headshot I took from the asphalt would have probably taken me out, and I'm not sure I would have woken up in a bed if that happened. 

I mean, I know my cloth and helmet armor (even my hide armor) isn't military grade, not is it the price of a base model luxury sedan. That's obvious to me...but if the video game night vision goggles are expected to function just like the real life versions, why don't my in IRL pants disappear into my inventory when they break? Why can a handmade stone pick harvest metal? How can I build a wall for a house with a pocketful of wood? Why can't I tame a creature that went extinct millions of years ago? Where is my Volkswagen Beetle-sized riding frog that craps Elmer's glue?!?!

I could spend hours contemplating these frustrating inconsistencies...or I could recognize that I'm playing a damned video game. I could realize that attempting to reconcile the differences between real world objects and their video game counterparts is an expedition into absurdity. I could simply accept that there are significant differences between real world objects and video game objects and I could come to terms with the fact that certain conveniences are added to video game items to increase the fun and accessibility. Whether it's the "unrealistic" night vision goggles in game about taming dinosaurs, or the Prius knockoff I stole in another game unrealistically flipping and rolling 37 times down a mountain only to drive under it's own power to the paint shop to be fixed like new for $800, I am acutely aware that the video game representations of real world items aren't intended to be accurate. They're intended to be useful and fun.

It's a video game. I do not know how to break it down any simpler. 

[Xenithar]

You're comparing things that don't make sense. He asked for an in-game comparison, which I gave. You however, took it to a far extreme and tried to compare things outside the game. Clearly you did not read his previous post where he asked for in-game comparisons, which is nearly impossible with some items, but in this case it is. I suggest you re-read the post he made and my response.

I'm done, didn't take long for complete retards derail a simple opinion thread. Now I remember why I dislike social media so much. Every retard has a keyboard and can't read.

[LouSpowells]

29 minutes ago, Xenithar said:

You're comparing things that don't make sense. He asked for an in-game comparison, which I gave. You however, took it to a far extreme and tried to compare things outside the game. Clearly you did not read his previous post where he asked for in-game comparisons, which is nearly impossible with some items, but in this case it is. I suggest you re-read the post he made and my response.

I'm done, didn't take long for complete retards derail a simple opinion thread. Now I remember why I dislike social media so much. Every retard has a keyboard and can't read.

If you just want to rant and rave without being subjected to conflicting opinions, start a blog, not a discussion. If you want to have a discussion, don't flip out and start calling people retards. Please.

[ArkCreation]

On 1/4/2018 at 10:12 AM, Xenithar said:

Alright, hear me out here. I've used military night vision headsets as well as vehicular-mounted IR sets. The goggles in Ark are as good as if not much better than what is on our tanks right now. This doesn't make sense. The IR systems mounted on vehicles use entire IR arrays to get range and require a bit of power to run. The goggles in Ark can currently see from corner to corner on The Island, which is many many miles. Unless the goggles are Tek-based (put them in the Tek tier) then I feel they are just WAY too OP. Real goggles can see around 500 yards in the dark but recognition (clarity) is only up to about 100 yards. That is the distance where you can tell the difference between a dog and a deer or female and male human. With the ones in Ark I can see mountainous details miles away!

So I want to ask if anybody else feels that maybe the goggles are a hair too good, especially where they are in the tree. The effect is good, but they're cheap to make and far better than anything we have today. Opinions?

A very interesting perspective on it. I see where you are going on this. Immersive side of things I can see Ark feeling more of a challenge if those settings were used on those goggles. As they do use modern day tools and weapons and gear like assault rifles, sniper rifles, longneck, glowsticks, ziplines, riot gear, etc. Having those limitations would set the tone for the tech. And if you want the full blown sci-fi stuff on goggles you have tek tier versions that breaks those conventional boundaries.

In PVP I know that gamma is disabled, but still players use K mode and/or low graphic settings to see inside bases at a certain distance. The rendering exploit as always been used. A flare does wonders for increased vision before moving in on a target, much like a squad does before going in to avoid certain dangers in combat. I know not everyone plays like a squad on this game. (mostly head cut off chickens running around.) but it would be hard to see a point to making changes to night vision goggles since hardly anyone uses those expensive things.

I would truly love to see more things like this used more. 

(ex. Smoke grenades and poison grenades for example are useless in PVE. low torpor effects on dinos.)

Perhaps if they put in a new experience building system with tek tier items or modern day items? Such as usage = exp = points earned to spend to learn a new function of an item like able to see better in NVG, or less  movement while crouched shooting a sniper rifle or ability unlock to use stamina to hold breath. Perhaps a arc marker when throwing grenades, much like the marker seen while using climbing gear. (Fallout 4 uses this.) Maybe have something similar to wooden spears being thrown. Sorry this opened up a can of worms for me on ideas.

 

 

[Pipinghot]

13 hours ago, Xenithar said:

OK genius, you've missed the point. This isn't Tek tier. It's a standard set of NVG which look very similar to the pair of EOTech I have hanging on the wall in my armament room.

Clearly I didn't miss the point, because you're still trying to use real world technology from the present day and compare the game to it. That is a failed argument no matter how many times you retry it. Your idea of "realism" is simply not a good basis for an argument for changing the goggles.

What you need to do is focus your thinking on game play and game balance, because game play & balance will always win over realism (and especially over the false "realism" that you're arguing) every time. Even if we pretend to agree that your realism argument is valid it's still means nothing if it has a negative effect on game play & game balance.

13 hours ago, Xenithar said:

The Tek helmet does the EXACT same night vision that these do. So in other words, the goggles are as good as the Tek helmet. That was the entire point.

Now that's a much better argument, and it has validity within the context of game play and game balance. However, it's dishonest of you to say it "was the entire point" because you were (and still are) comparing the game to real world, present day technology, which is nothing but a great big red herring.

So let's move past the "realism" nonsense and focus on your argument that might have validity.

13 hours ago, Xenithar said:

So in other words, the goggles are as good as the Tek helmet. ... The goggles are as good as the alient technology you can only obtain by beating and then grinding bosses for the power source. I do not know how to break it down any simpler.

Except they're not as good as the Tek helmet, that's simply not true.

Night vision goggles armor rating = 0, Tek helmet armor rating = 180 Winner by a lot = Tek helmet

Night vision goggles cold protection = 15, Tek helmet cold protection = 5. Winner by a little = Goggles

Night vision goggles heat protection = -5, Tek helmet heat protection = 30. Winner by a moderate amount = Tek helmet. (The goggles actually make you hotter)

Now, it's reasonable to discuss whether the Tek helmet is good enough to justify the cost, but it's clearly obvious that the goggles are not as good as the Tek helmet. You can't compare only the vision feature and say they're the same, you have to look at all of the benefits of both pieces of gear.

13 hours ago, Xenithar said:

Nobody said it did. Way off-point.

It was your comparison, " a single item lights up the entire planet unlike anything in recorded history", so if your comparison was "Way off-point" that's your responsibility.