Stegos vs Turrets

[Mjsechrest]

At what angle do turrets have to be in order to shoot a player off of a stego? Even turrets high up or directly above stegos / side angles do not hit the rider even though the bullets go directly at the rider. And if there is no non tek counter to a stego then how are you supposed to defend a base against a stego on aberration if they can literally throw c4 from the stego and not have it blow up in their hands even though the turrets have a clear line of sight to the rider and the thrown c4? It's ridiculous enough that the turrets won't hit the rider but even more ridiculous that the c4 isn't blown up while they try to throw it since the turrets clearly have the line of sight (tested multiple ways). 

Have you found any way for turrets to hit a stego rider off ?

[OGOWAres]

They were supposed to have implemented a patch that weakened the steggos & veggie cake healing, however that was made null and void by the species z healing and new heavy turrets are a joke. They burn way to much ammo way to quickly, and 2 steggos can finish off a base in minutes. Ours was not a small base we did not hit the 100 turret limit we had between 40 and 50 heavies all round with 700 rounds in, while we know we needed more turrets which is fine. That just means our ammo would have been spread thinner for the time we had been on as a 5 man. We were also defending against at least two other tribes for sure, we know they had at least 9/10 players in one 3 in the other. But overall I can say all around first hand they aren't worth the hype at all, especially on aberration where species z can heal a dino in seconds back to full health and allow them to continue sponging while spamming your base with basilisk poison balls (aberration edition of poison wyvern). proper disappointing we can work that hard and get screwed that quick.

Edited: Sorry strayed off target a bit their, my point was they were supposed to have nerfed it, but made that obsolete with species z plants dotted everywhere. And you have never been able to take a player off a steggo (i think we all assumed the nerf would provide that) but it did not. They back up like a bronto you cant even manually snipe a dude off the steggo it just hits the plates and when they get damaged enough they run back to a fob built on species z and heal up fully in 2/4 seconds and come back till ur drained.

[Mjsechrest]

Someone gave me the advice of using giant bees to take stego riders off , but if that's literally our only defense then I don't know what to say. You can't get tek turrets unlocked on aberration without beating the Island bosses then coming back to ab and farming element slowly and painfully one by one to try and make one turret and it's not enough because there are videos of people tanking tek turrets with stegos very recently. Someone said use a yuty on turret mode but we can't get yuty on aberration. How are we supposed to defend our bases wildcard ?

[SwishPapaSweets]

The heavys burn more ammo than tek turrets and if it were not for element being hard to come by I would suggest using them with reg turrets to shoot down rockets. 

Plus atm at least on Xbox all modes hit all targets 

In Abbration could just build high on a cliff or at least your more important items on a cliff away from stegos

[bosde87]

Purlovia's to knock the rider off just inside turret range,

[RasFW]

Would purlovia land mines be effective at knocking off riders into direct turret fire?

How about an aggressive burrowed reaper for knockback and slow on stegos?

Can megalosaurus pick a rider from a stego?

Bear traps on the ground to hold them in place? Might work to kill the tame?

Chuck a species Z fruit at a rider and force a dismount in turrets?

Use a crab on defense and Chuck the bad stego off into space? Could be used offensively too I guess...

 

 

I'm just spitballing ideas here.

[Ranger1]

“He’s intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking.” ~ Spock - The Wrath of Khan.

[ayala205]

Does anyone know if  Tek Turrets splash damage hits the rider of stegos? or do they tank them like regular.

 

[Mjsechrest]

1 hour ago, Ranger1 said:

“He’s intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking.” ~ Spock - The Wrath of Khan.

lol ranger hope that's not a quote about me  love you too 

[Mjsechrest]

1 hour ago, RasFW said:

Would purlovia land mines be effective at knocking off riders into direct turret fire?

How about an aggressive burrowed reaper for knockback and slow on stegos?

Can megalosaurus pick a rider from a stego?

Bear traps on the ground to hold them in place? Might work to kill the tame?

Chuck a species Z fruit at a rider and force a dismount in turrets?

Use a crab on defense and Chuck the bad stego off into space? Could be used offensively too I guess...

 

 

I'm just spitballing ideas here.

You reminded me about purlovias being on abberation. Thank you. I'll try some bear traps in certain weak spots as well. It's just making sure they can't walk up to the turret boxes and chuck c4 being the issue , but I think with enough purlovias , queen bees , reapers , basilisk and bear traps blocking the way to the base it will be a lot harder for them 

[iAmE]

2 hours ago, RasFW said:

Would purlovia land mines be effective at knocking off riders into direct turret fire?

How about an aggressive burrowed reaper for knockback and slow on stegos?

Can megalosaurus pick a rider from a stego?

Bear traps on the ground to hold them in place? Might work to kill the tame?

Chuck a species Z fruit at a rider and force a dismount in turrets?

Use a crab on defense and Chuck the bad stego off into space? Could be used offensively too I guess...

 

 

I'm just spitballing ideas here.

Yes, but it's a one time use. They just respawn and run back.

No. Not really.

No.

Buys time, but probably doesn't kill anything.

Assuming you're online there's a lot of counters to stego.

Read above.

 

In reality the only good defense against Stegos offline is Tek Turrets. If you're online a couple rockets at the Stego will kill the rider in short order.

2 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

“He’s intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking.” ~ Spock - The Wrath of Khan.

As much of a fan as I am of Trek quotes, this one really doesn't apply here. Stegos are Meta because they lack counters of equivalent time investment.

1 hour ago, ayala205 said:

Does anyone know if  Tek Turrets splash damage hits the rider of stegos? or do they tank them like regular.

 

Tek Turrets hit the Rider.

4 hours ago, Mjsechrest said:

At what angle do turrets have to be in order to shoot a player off of a stego? Even turrets high up or directly above stegos / side angles do not hit the rider even though the bullets go directly at the rider. And if there is no non tek counter to a stego then how are you supposed to defend a base against a stego on aberration if they can literally throw c4 from the stego and not have it blow up in their hands even though the turrets have a clear line of sight to the rider and the thrown c4? It's ridiculous enough that the turrets won't hit the rider but even more ridiculous that the c4 isn't blown up while they try to throw it since the turrets clearly have the line of sight (tested multiple ways). 

Have you found any way for turrets to hit a stego rider off ?

Tek Turrets are/is the only offline way of beating a Stego rush (And it only works to an extent, a couple sets of good flak, med brews and/or you not having enough tek turrets to instakill the rider.)

[DarthaNyan]

1 hour ago, Mjsechrest said:

You reminded me about purlovias being on abberation. Thank you. I'll try some bear traps in certain weak spots as well. It's just making sure they can't walk up to the turret boxes and chuck c4 being the issue , but I think with enough purlovias , queen bees , reapers , basilisk and bear traps blocking the way to the base it will be a lot harder for them 

Put turtles on follow to your crab > put a c4 on turtles > throw 2 turtles at the enemy base > detonate > wait for turtles to return.

[Ranger1]

10 minutes ago, iAmE said:

As much of a fan as I am of Trek quotes, this one really doesn't apply here. Stegos are Meta because they lack counters of equivalent time investment.

It was a cryptic way of suggesting that perhaps building on the ground where Stegos can be used against you might not be the best idea.

[iAmE]

1 minute ago, Ranger1 said:

It was a cryptic way of suggesting that perhaps building on the ground where Stegos can be used against you might not be the best idea.

To be frank, on Aberration, it really doesn't matter. You'll just be tanked by Rock Drakes the same way. No real reason to be too picky about build locations on Aberration, as having plants that restore you from 0 to full HP in under 20 seconds makes the map inherently undefendable. 

[Mjsechrest]

So basically it's a gg. No way to defend 

[DarthaNyan]

3 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

It was a cryptic way of suggesting that perhaps building on the ground where Stegos can be used against you might not be the best idea.

Stegos/turtles can be used everywhere tho. Crabs are OP.

[iAmE]

9 minutes ago, Mjsechrest said:

So basically it's a gg. No way to defend 

On Aberration?

 

More or less. Yes. The only way to defend yourself is to exterminate anyone on your server that poses a feasible threat. Extreme Ecocide. Then, assuming you are on a cluster/network (IE you and others can transfer between servers), you establish an SE base. A low investment outpost with the ability to reach/obtain all content, preferably in a low traffic/hard to find location (As obscurity is the real only defense), and funnel all of that work from the outpost to an actual defendable base on Rag or Island. 

[Ranger1]

20 minutes ago, iAmE said:

To be frank, on Aberration, it really doesn't matter. You'll just be tanked by Rock Drakes the same way. No real reason to be too picky about build locations on Aberration, as having plants that restore you from 0 to full HP in under 20 seconds makes the map inherently undefendable. 

I tend to agree with this.  My point was that Stegos in and of themselves can be rendered moot fairly easily (although Crabs keep things from being too cut and dried)... the actual main issue that needs to be addressed is the distribution of the plants. 

I'm fairly certain that the plants were created as a device to at least partially make bases almost completely indefensible (as well as fulfill other purposes on the map), but some further modifications to them (or their distribution) may be needed... but it will be tricky as the pendulum could easily swing too far in the other direction.

[iAmE]

5 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

I tend to agree with this.  My point was that Stegos in and of themselves can be rendered moot fairly easily (although Crabs keep things from being too cut and dried)... the actual main issue that needs to be addressed is the distribution of the plants.  I fairly certain that the plants were created as a device to at least partially make bases almost completely undefendable (as well as fulfill other purposes on the map), but some further modifications to them (or their distribution) may be needed... but it will be tricky as the pendulum could easily swing too far in the other direction.

Problem being, bases as they stand are, to a pretty large extent, already undefendable with a 100 turret limit. 

They might intend for the plants to push it over the edge, but to be frank, all it does is show the obvious inexperience the developers have in PvP. We've already tried the mass suicide rock drake strategy, and it actually works quite spectacularly. 

 

[Ranger1]

17 minutes ago, iAmE said:

Problem being, bases as they stand are, to a pretty large extent, already undefendable with a 100 turret limit. 

They might intend for the plants to push it over the edge, but to be frank, all it does is show the obvious inexperience the developers have in PvP. We've already tried the mass suicide rock drake strategy, and it actually works quite spectacularly. 

 

I'll hold my comments right there as It's no secret that I'm not a fan of certain underlying game mechanics (how re spawning is handled to mention one) that make certain tactics far more difficult to counter than they should be.    Unlimited healing plants are now another example.

To be perfectly transparent though, I'm also not a fan of PVP bases being able to become virtually unassailable either.  If a perfect balance can't be achieved I think the game as a whole is far better off erring on the side of "No base is impregnable, the only question is how expensive can you make it for the attackers". 

I'm also not a fan of PVE bases being largely immune to being wrecked by environment forces, but that's a whole different conversation. 

[iAmE]

10 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

I'll hold my comments right there as It's no secret that I'm not a fan of certain underlying game mechanics (how re spawning is handled to mention one) that make certain tactics far more difficult to counter than they should be.    Unlimited healing plants are now another example.

To be perfectly transparent though, I'm also not a fan of PVP bases being able to become virtually unassailable either.  If a perfect balance can't be achieved I think the game as a whole is far better off erring on the side of "No base is impregnable, the only question is how expensive can you make it for the attackers". 

I'm also not a fan of PVE bases being largely immune to being wrecked by environment forces, but that's a whole different conversation. 

The problem is the main cost of raiding a base, is in dinos. Which, thanks to breeding, is mainly something that grows exponentially. Where as defending a base not only lacks the adequate tools to do the job, but also bases its primary resource cost in a linearly gatherable resource, IE ammo for the turrets.

 

After a couple days, or weeks, depending on tribe size, tribes can be vastly outbreeding their ability to farm bullets. Rendering bases, essentially, undefendable, as the attacker advantage of choosing the time, coupled with the aforementioned exponential vs linear growth rate defeats any possibility of the defenders leveraging any advantage.

The only thing you can really do is create bases that take longer to foundation wipe then you will be offline. Most Mega-tribe bases take 8-12 hours to fully tank and wipe, but you can raid those bases in 30 minutes to an hour. Note I use the word "Raid" as oppose to wipe, in the fact that you won't be deleting the base, or possibly even blowing into their main loot room, but you can delete hours to hours of their work by simply blowing up a couple turret towers, at the cost of minutes of your time, and a stego, which rarely constitutes more then minutes of time to raise. 

 

I understand your position, I just don't think that it's quite appreciated here, by the developers, or by people who aren't hardcore into PvP, how easy it is to raid at the moment, and that's without the 100 turret limit. 

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

Ark pvp will never be balanced.. offlining and the numbers game along with Wildcards inability to actually create diverse meta will never allow balance..

[iAmE]

45 minutes ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

Ark pvp will never be balanced.. offlining and the numbers game along with Wildcards inability to actually create diverse meta will never allow balance..

That doesn't exactly excuse the lack of trying. 

 

Really. The only explanation is that they just don't have any idea what they're doing. Which is fine, in and of itself. I can't expect the designers of a game to understand the game like people who play the game passionately do, but the problem then lies in their inability to internalize the feedback given to them by the variety of sources they have at their disposal, whether that's even the small forum that this is, or the much larger community that Reddit is. Or even creating (And particularly, using) a group of testers with experience in the subject matter/content they are lacking experience in. 

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

That doesn't exactly excuse the lack of trying. 
 
Really. The only explanation is that they just don't have any idea what they're doing. Which is fine, in and of itself. I can't expect the designers of a game to understand the game like people who play the game passionately do, but the problem then lies in their inability to internalize the feedback given to them by the variety of sources they have at their disposal, whether that's even the small forum that this is, or the much larger community that Reddit is. Or even creating (And particularly, using) a group of testers with experience in the subject matter/content they are lacking experience in. 

I was pretty vague, but I do agree with you, it is pretty easy to see that the dev team doesn't play pvp the way all the invested players do, or just have a general disconnect because of a preconceived idea of how "their" game is/should be..

[Mjsechrest]

14 minutes ago, iAmE said:

That doesn't exactly excuse the lack of trying. 

 

Really. The only explanation is that they just don't have any idea what they're doing. Which is fine, in and of itself. I can't expect the designers of a game to understand the game like people who play the game passionately do, but the problem then lies in their inability to internalize the feedback given to them by the variety of sources they have at their disposal, whether that's even the small forum that this is, or the much larger community that Reddit is. Or even creating (And particularly, using) a group of testers with experience in the subject matter/content they are lacking experience in. 

I agree with what you said here but I do believe that they know what they're doing and it really seems as if they don't want you to be able to defend your base. I can't count how many suggestions that we as a community have offered such as land mines , other turret types, new traps, and modifications to existing things and dinosaurs to try and make a viable form of defense. They just choose to not implement ANY forms of viable defense and furthermore continue to skew the balance more towards offense on every single patch. There is no reason otherwise. This is their intent and if it wasn't maybe they would come to these forums and communicate that fact. But communication isn't their strong suit so maybe that point is moot. All I can say is that, currently , pvp in this game is broken right now and needs attention