Lawless Servers and Who Makes The Laws or Can Anyone Really Make the Law

[RaiderofthelostARK]

4 minutes ago, bennyrodz said:

It's not even remotely about your morals, it's the simple fact that you consider everyone that opposes your point of view "lack respect and hold traits that humanity despose". As I said that's the bully mentality to the T. Okay so answer my question first, a driver in the left lane is legally going half the speed limit, what do you do? Wait for him to move over, or go around? It has nothing to do with age or gender, this is a common instance that happens thousands of times a day. 

 

I will repeat everyone has equal opportunity to every drop, the light shines a mile long. 

 

And I see you avoided the second question as well, if you build a base next to a drop, and you are always on. Is that drop forever your property?  Simple question. Proximity does not claim ownership and neither does "dibs" first to pull it is the first to receive it, end of story. And if you no longer want completion (literally the only source of competition in pve) play single player for as long as your heart desires. 

Well if I was in an emergency I would probably pass. But normally just go with the flow of traffic unless I'm alone then I go the speed limit. And I answered the 2nd question stating if your beside it it would be all yours bro. Now does my question get answered now? And let's add that the game box is gold has a ring around it. Could be ark aberration or super man 64 or 10 other games half good half trash. 

[RaiderofthelostARK]

9 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

You are making the mistake of imposing real world social norms on individuals playing by a games rule set. 

You would never body slam someone to the ground because they were in your way in real life, but it's perfectly acceptable when playing (American) football.

You would never shoot a stranger in the head because he got to a vehicle you wanted to drive first, but it's perfectly acceptable in every FPS game you've likely ever played.

You probably would never systematically take every asset a person has with the objective of forcing them into complete bankruptcy and homelessness, however you gleefully do it to your own mother in a game of Monopoly.

When a person is playing a game by the rules there is no negative reflection on a person's character in reality.  It is only if they start breaking those rules in their game play that you can even begin to make any moral judgements about them.  Even then, cheating at checkers (or any other game) is a far cry from equating that behavior with the moral destitution that would be necessary to actually steal someone's property (or worse crimes) in real life.

In this scenario, the folks taking those drops if they can despite someone else attempting to do the same are absolutely playing by the official rules.  The only thing they are in violation of are the restrictions that another player is seeking to impose upon them.  That in no way casts a shadow on their moral compass in reality, anymore than a race car driver pulling ahead and in front of a fellow competitor. 

That is playing by the official rules, just as much as it is perfectly acceptable for you to disrupt the play of the person that took that drop first as long as you stay within the official rules as well.  Playing multiplayer PVE in most games absolutely does not mean that there can be no competition between players, it usually only means that direct attacks are not allowed and certain areas may be considered "out of bounds" for certain activities.  Players are allowed (and encouraged) to cooperate or compete as they see fit within those official restrictions.

If a person wishes to make their own version of the official rules they are free to do so on their own server.  Anything else is a voluntary arrangement between players that they are under no obligation to honor, and it is certainly no reflection on their moral character if they choose not to.  Frankly, the only people that would think it was are folks that are having trouble distinguishing actions taken within the rule set of a game from actions taken in reality... and that's a good indicator that they need to take a big step back to gain a little perspective.

Well work is coming to an end. Going home to play ark. Pve aberration server 646 if anyone wants a friendly server. Ranger I quoted you because I'll read this and respond tomorrow while walking around lol take care.

[Ranger1]

1 minute ago, RaiderofthelostARK said:

Well work is coming to an end. Going home to play ark. Pve aberration server 646 if anyone wants a friendly server. Ranger I quoted you because I'll read this and respond tomorrow while walking around lol take care.

You too my friend, may you have an excellent game this evening.

[bennyrodz]

6 minutes ago, RaiderofthelostARK said:

Well if I was in an emergency I would probably pass. But normally just go with the flow of traffic unless I'm alone then I go the speed limit. And I answered the 2nd question stating if your beside it it would be all yours bro. Now does my question get answered now? And let's add that the game box is gold has a ring around it. Could be ark aberration or super man 64 or 10 other games half good half trash. 

So you're saying if you live beside it, it's permanently yours? That's dumb, if that was the intention of the game it would allow you to build a house around the drop and keep it in your living room. And your example doesn't make sense, there's no countdown timers on getting free things. It's like free samples at a food court, you can see it first from across the room, but if it's not in your hands first that that is completely irrelevant. First come first serve. 

[Kai905]

Oh ffs, he said it twice that if you’re there at the drop its yours whether its in his base or not.

Simply put... its common courtesy that if someones there before you, you let them have it or whatever the case may be. Something everyones missing apparently. 

 

[Ranger1]

6 minutes ago, Kai905 said:

Simply put... its common courtesy that if someones there before you, you let them have it or whatever the case may be. Something everyones missing apparently. 

No one is missing anything Kai.  "Common courtesy" and playing by the rules are not necessarily the same thing.  In fact in most multiplayer games (including PVE oriented games), common courtesy and playing to the best of your ability within the rules are diametrically opposed concepts.

Personal "house rules" might dictate that it is "common courtesy" to allow your opponent to build up first before attempting to take territory in a game of RISK, or to allow each person one mulligan in a friendly game of golf... but that is an agreement among friends and a far cry from honorably playing within the official rules of either game.  Not agreeing to follow those "house rules of common courtesy" is no reflection on the players character in any way, he is simply playing by the official rules.

Again, in ARK if a person expects their personal rule set to be followed by all players they have the option to try and impose their will on those other players via agreement, negotiation, or punitive actions as allowed by the rules... or they have the option to cut to the chase and simply start their own server.

[bennyrodz]

37 minutes ago, Kai905 said:

Oh ffs, he said it twice that if you’re there at the drop its yours whether its in his base or not.

Simply put... its common courtesy that if someones there before you, you let them have it or whatever the case may be. Something everyones missing apparently. 

 

If that's the case than that would contradict your own "rules". If the drop is directly next to your base and your home, the home owner would argue that they saw it first. The problem in all of this isn't the "courtesy" or "morals" you mention, the problem here is it was clearly stated that if these "rules" aren't abided by you have the right to grief them as much as possible until they quit or moved servers. That's bullying and griefing plain and simple and there is no excuse for that. 

 

This is just a excuse for less than honorable people to grief and bully others, and worse yet you'd attempt to have a whole server grief said person. If the developers didn't want pve to fight over drops they wouldn't render after a certain distance plain and simple. If your intention in ark is to grief and fight people go to pvp. Or if your intention is to claim every drop go to single player. It's humorous how upset losing a drop is to some people, like what do you expect to be in there a lvl 1000 giga? It's not that serious. 

[RaiderofthelostARK]

Yes or no to my question  buuuudy

[RaiderofthelostARK]

5 hours ago, bennyrodz said:

So you're saying if you live beside it, it's permanently yours? That's dumb, if that was the intention of the game it would allow you to build a house around the drop and keep it in your living room. And your example doesn't make sense, there's no countdown timers on getting free things. It's like free samples at a food court, you can see it first from across the room, but if it's not in your hands first that that is completely irrelevant. First come first serve. 

I ment standing beside it. 

[Dylan1602]

9 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

You are making the mistake of imposing real world social norms on individuals playing by a games rule set. 

You would never body slam someone to the ground because they were in your way in real life, but it's perfectly acceptable when playing (American) football.

You would never shoot a stranger in the head because he got to a vehicle you wanted to drive first, but it's perfectly acceptable in every FPS game you've likely ever played.

You probably would never systematically take every asset a person has with the objective of forcing them into complete bankruptcy and homelessness, however you gleefully do it to your own mother in a game of Monopoly.

When a person is playing a game by the rules there is no negative reflection on a person's character in reality.  It is only if they start breaking those rules in their game play that you can even begin to make any moral judgements about them.  Even then, cheating at checkers (or any other game) is a far cry from equating that behavior with the moral destitution that would be necessary to actually steal someone's property (or worse crimes) in real life.

In this scenario, the folks taking those drops if they can despite someone else attempting to do the same are absolutely playing by the official rules.  The only thing they are in violation of are the restrictions that another player is seeking to impose upon them.  That in no way casts a shadow on their moral compass in reality, anymore than a race car driver pulling ahead and in front of a fellow competitor. 

That is playing by the official rules, just as much as it is perfectly acceptable for you to disrupt the play of the person that took that drop first as long as you stay within the official rules as well.  Playing multiplayer PVE in most games absolutely does not mean that there can be no competition between players, it usually only means that direct attacks are not allowed and certain areas may be considered "out of bounds" for certain activities.  Players are allowed (and encouraged) to cooperate or compete as they see fit within those official restrictions.

If a person wishes to make their own version of the official rules they are free to do so on their own server.  Anything else is a voluntary arrangement between players that they are under no obligation to honor, and it is certainly no reflection on their moral character if they choose not to.  Frankly, the only people that would think it was are folks that are having trouble distinguishing actions taken within the rule set of a game from actions taken in reality... and that's a good indicator that they need to take a big step back to gain a little perspective.

Get this man a beer!

 

You've literally covered it all. No one cares when you shoot someone in the face in COD, no one cares if you starve your pig in Farm Simulater 2057 Evolved. I have never seen any other game where people condemn your actions by attacking your IRL morals and attitudes.

13 hours ago, RaiderofthelostARK said:

Okay can I get some facepalms......While I understand some people lack respect on pve servers by multiple ways such as..and listen now...STEALING DROPS...you can't get a drop before it reaches the ground so you have to wait for it. Say another player sees the drop and also sees you standing there waiting for it and decides it's theirs instead. That is pigheaded and a theft. You would either have the mentality that it's rightfully whomever accesses inventory 1st (pigheaded) or your gonna be sneaky and (steal) said drop. Or be  respectful and fly away and say gl. It's downright slimeballish to take a drop when you see another player waiting for it. At least in pve. Anyways can there be a forum marked as dead horses to move topics like this too?

 

The only thing IRL I can compare people like yourselves to is feminists. Shout out when it suits you and fail to recognise when you are just wrong but still throw up flawed logic.

How many times have you seen videos of people fighting over something like a TV or PC during a Black Friday event. Doesn't matter who got there first, it's all about who's leaving with it because it does not belong to anyone yet. The contents of the Beacon doesn't belong to anyone yet until it is taken so the argument that people are stealing is absurd. Stealing implies that the drop/item inside already belonged to someone which it does not.

Going by this logic raiding makes everyone pre-meditative homicidal psychopaths. Going out of their way and building/crafting what they need to go and blow up someone elses home and killing them and their dinos. Where is all of the IRL shunning for this? Why aren't these crazy people in jail? Unless... you know, its a game... just a thought... 

[Guest DJRone89]

@Ranger1 @Dylan1602 @bennyrodz

Please stop, my brain can only handle so much logic.

I think the people in the latter half of this thread are ignoring that OP griefs people who break rules they have bestowed upon them on a public PvE server without authority. PvP is a completely different story which is why you can’t use the same logic here.

[ArkCreation]

Well you have players that police, especially on the new Aberration map, unofficial, private, official etc. They like to pillar pathways so that no one blocks major roads. WHICH is ...........fine. Although they go out on a limb and say its for the server yet they control half the map. These roads they police are nothing more than land grab. There are a lot of people that don't admit it but they are addicted to control or are controlling in nature. The pillars for open roads so they don't get blocked should just be choke points.   

There are still trolls and people claim to be fighting the good fight, but when there is little place to build in the starting areas and these guys haven't moved on to greener pastures deeper into the more difficult areas where established tribes.     If they would simply get up and move these new players could start out on a server without grinding in a 1x1 poophole trying to eek their way to some spot of land that is open with level 50 or less dinos.

When this is PVP anything goes imo, but on PvE there is no reason to do it.

 They will pillar charge nodes which........is pointless since they are public use anyway. I've played on countless pvp and pve servers and they are mostly the same, varying from pillaring areas of vital end game resources to preserve them for anyone to use. PVP this is a big fat lie as these guys will police the area for which they pillared regardless of where you farm materials. Then you have PVE where there is nothing you can do aggressively to at least play the game in peace without someone monopolizing or saying they police for good reason. The annoying lack of being able to place sleeping bags and/or structure to protect something you're taming from wild dinos begs the question if the current function of wooden spikes or sleeping bags should change in some way when out taming. Like a sphere of influence to tame dinos while they are unconscious so you can place a sleeping bag or protection. 

It would be nice if everyone could just ally on these PVE servers and allow players to build where needed for taming and be able to place a base down without a pillar blocking off a section of land you need to place a damn bed, smithy, or fabricator. You know, something essential to playing the game without having to use stone tools and weapons for the rest of you're life.

Then eventually this whole argument on the internet and in game comes down to no one trusts anyone therefore you have to live in an untrusting world that people are going to raptor you over. Majority of players, including myself just want to play in peace without all the politics and BS that goes around.

[ArkCreation]

2 hours ago, DJRone89 said:

@Ranger1 @Dylan1602 @bennyrodz

Please stop, my brain can only handle so much logic.

I think the people in the latter half of this thread are ignoring that OP griefs people who break rules they have bestowed upon them on a public PvE server without authority. PvP is a completely different story which is why you can’t use the same logic here.

yeah the topic is specific, but we always get a few that want to put in a few stabs from their pvp servers about how it doesnt work that way. They should just make their own thread.

[Lancelot]

After reading all this... do any of you actually play official PvE?

On all servers I have been on it is very frowned upon to take a drop when someone else is waiting for it. Not only coming from me or my tribe but many others.

If anyone has ever waited for a drop to land only to have someone swoop in and grab it while you're trying to get that damn E logo to show off you know the feeling. 

Stop pretenting like everyone waits an appropriate amount of time or even ask before taking a drop someone was already there for, even when they see the person cleary trying to acces the drop.

[Guest DJRone89]

33 minutes ago, ArkCreation said:

yeah the topic is specific, but we always get a few that want to put in a few stabs from their pvp servers about how it doesnt work that way. They should just make their own thread.

So you agree that it’s ok that when people band together on a public PvE server that they can grief people who disagree with them?

Griefing on PvE is using the environment to attack other players because you refuse to PvP through the Tribe Wars option.

[ArkCreation]

5 minutes ago, DJRone89 said:

So you agree that it’s ok that when people band together on a public PvE server that they can grief people who disagree with them?

Griefing on PvE is using the environment to attack other players because you refuse to PvP through the Tribe Wars option.

Not sure where you thought I was actually supporting griefing in my comments. I was saying that in threads like these pvpers tend to make comments that put a few stabs in and tell pve players how the game works, But the rules do not exactly apply as they do in PVE.  So yes i totally understand the whole "using the environment" to attack other players.

 

Edit: Also if you read up one more post, I go into more clarity.

[bennyrodz]

16 minutes ago, ArkCreation said:

Not sure where you thought I was actually supporting griefing in my comments. I was saying that in threads like these pvpers tend to make comments that put a few stabs in and tell pve players how the game works, But the rules do not exactly apply as they do in PVE.  So yes i totally understand the whole "using the environment" to attack other players.

 

Edit: Also if you read up one more post, I go into more clarity.

This has NOTHING to do with PVE. I play PVE as well. If you play PVE to "use the environment to attack other players" than you're in the wrong game mode.  PVE is a community, you either work together, or can freely choose to ignore each other.  And yes using the environment to attack other players is very clearly griefing.  Most people play PVE to raise, boss fight, tame, harvest, build, but then there are a few less than honorable people that only play PVE to troll others knowing they have no way to retaliate.  That is the issue at hand, finding any excuse to ruin the gaming experience of others, and worse yet trying to gather a gang to help you on the server.  If you want to dictate your server, rent one.

[ArkCreation]

23 minutes ago, bennyrodz said:

This has NOTHING to do with PVE. I play PVE as well. If you play PVE to "use the environment to attack other players" than you're in the wrong game mode.  PVE is a community, you either work together, or can freely choose to ignore each other.  And yes using the environment to attack other players is very clearly griefing.  Most people play PVE to raise, boss fight, tame, harvest, build, but then there are a few less than honorable people that only play PVE to troll others knowing they have no way to retaliate.  That is the issue at hand, finding any excuse to ruin the gaming experience of others, and worse yet trying to gather a gang to help you on the server.  If you want to dictate your server, rent one.

Benny I think you were responding to DJ's post not mine I am assuming. I'm actually not sure if this was a disagreement with what I said or you're just making a statement about the state of the game in general.

[Guest DJRone89]

On 28/12/2017 at 12:28 AM, Thorium said:

On unofficial. Probably not what you are searching for, but it's true.

Also when i read how some PvE players play here and want to control the other players, they should play PvP instead. No need to kite, just fight it out.

Btw. on most unofficial PvE servers people get banned pretty quickly for kiting, but i don't know a server the admin will ban players for ninjaing a drop. It may not be a nice thing to do, but it's part of the game. I understand you are making your rules because there is no actual moderation on official, but that's the real flaw of official PvE and why you need to do it in the first place and why there is so much griefing going on. PvE on Ark only works with heavy moderation.

I overlooked your post but this statement is what everyone needs to take away with them from this thread. You’ve hit the nail perfectly.

[bennyrodz]

5 hours ago, ArkCreation said:

"So yes i totally understand the whole "using the environment" to attack other players"

My bad when I quoted you I only meant to quote this part, that is what I was referencing to directly.

 

2 hours ago, ArkRage said:

The drop is anyone's to claim, but it's common courtesy to pass by a drop with players already waiting for it. On pve at least. I tend to find people who swoop in and take the drop you are stood waiting for are mostly a word I cannot repeat on here.  ? haha

I agree with you, to many it is considered common courtesy and there is nothing wrong with that.  The only issue with this is, the OP says anyone that does not abide by these "rules" that he would have the entire server grief said person with Alphas and Titans.  Everyone else on this post is not arguing about "courtesy" all we are saying, is there is NEVER an excuse to grief and threaten players.   Sure it would be nice if they didn't bother you with the drop, but in no way shape or form is it considered "stealing".  As I mentioned previously, if the developers did not intend for PVE to fight over drops, they would not render after a certain distance plain and simple.  These are the intentional game mechanics, and no public PVE server is owned by a single person or tribe.

[RaiderofthelostARK]

Well Benny I'm guessing your answer to my question is no

[bennyrodz]

20 hours ago, bennyrodz said:

And your example doesn't make sense, there's no countdown timers on getting free things. It's like free samples at a food court, you can see it first from across the room, but if it's not in your hands first that that is completely irrelevant. First come first Serve 

@RaiderofthelostARK read up, I answered you yesterday.... 

[RaiderofthelostARK]

1 minute ago, bennyrodz said:

@RaiderofthelostARK read up, I answered you yesterday.... 

Didn't see a yes or no response...seems like your dodging 

[bennyrodz]

1 minute ago, RaiderofthelostARK said:

Didn't see a yes or no response...seems like your dodging 

Your example holds no logic, if you don't understand my response that's a personal problem. First come first serve.

[RaiderofthelostARK]

Lol so your saying you would not take said item from the counter. "First come first serve" correct? Which translates that you agree that the person standing next to drop was there first who rightfully should take the items out of the drop. And person two is outta luck.