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Lawless Servers and Who Makes The Laws or Can Anyone Really Make the Law


invincibleqc
Message added by Jerryn

I split this out as best as I could.  I could have gone up one more post, but since it was partly on topic to the original thread, I left it there.

 

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59 minutes ago, cattafett said:

i'm guessing you don't play pve, many pvp'ers come to pve thinking as you do and learn the hard way

 

it may have been on a post that was left behind but i did state "ours" was used in the sense of the server we play on not the server we own

as also stated before rights vs freedom, yes they may have the right to steal a drop but they also have the freedom to chose to act in a way which will cause others to react in retaliation after they have been warned of the consequences

 i hope at some point the shoe is on the other foot and you think back to this and gain some understanding of our point of view

unlikely but hey i try to be optimistic

 

i need a gif. of scar face shooting out alphas saying "say hello to my little friends"

 

 its called zero tolerance , its not a case of you steal a drop you get wiped its more like you steal a drop you are warned, you steal another you get kited, you continue to steal drops we carry on messing with you till you stop or leave

 

context has relevance, i wasn't complaining about getting kited i was complaining about how WC did nothing other than change the rules when 1 tribe were trolling an entire server for poops and giggles.  the kiting was just one example of evidence ignored by WC  

 

no. first i act with the backing and help of the other tribes on my server, second i'd rather not have to spend my time dealing with the "few" who disregard wishes of the "many"

 

other players are part of that environment, there is even ground as those that chose not to live by our rules are able to try kite back as much as as they wish

the environment "we" have created is a peaceful one until someone comes along and continues to disregard the wishes of the community

 

 because warnings are given, when a tribe first joins our server we understand they don't know the status quo, when transgressions are made we explain the issue and the result of continued transgressions

why it matters is about respect, we show the new tribe that the community we've built on our server is one based on mutual respect and that if they wish to be part of it and benefit from it respect must be shown to be recived

You guys sound like you “want” to be alphas on a PvP server. But the passive aggressive nature of PVE is just easier. 

You want to create all the rules. But you don’t want to have to fight off all the other people for the right to create those rules. The winner makes the rules. The loser is relegated to the history books. 

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54 minutes ago, cattafett said:

i hope at some point the shoe is on the other foot and you think back to this and gain some understanding of our point of view

Been there done that. Had a guy show up and try to take a drop I was standing at. 

Still got it. Gota have fingers of lighting!

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58 minutes ago, cattafett said:

it may have been on a post that was left behind but i did state "ours" was used in the sense of the server we play on not the server we own

as also stated before rights vs freedom, yes they may have the right to steal a drop but they also have the freedom to chose to act in a way which will cause others to react in retaliation after they have been warned of the consequences

Again, I'm not criticizing your choices in game play... but likewise I'm not criticizing those who choose to play in a way counter to what you desire.

The truth of the matter is that the conflict that inevitably results from those opposing playstyles adds a great deal more depth and excitement to the gaming experience of all parties involved.

You see as much as you view yourselves as the protectors of fair play on your server, there are just as many folks (if not more) that view your actions as overly controlling and dictatorial... deliberately infringing on their wish to engage in fun and competitive game play.

And that's a good thing... as ultimately it makes the game more engaging for all concerned.

Every hero needs a villain to confront, every villain needs a hero to test themselves against... and it often turns out that deciding who the hero and who the villain of a particular story is depends entirely on your point of view... and nothing more. 

 

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Hello,

I have a clear goal in ARK, it might not be fulfilled today or tomorrow but it is satisfying when reached. Having such goals are good in both ARK and in life. Sandbox game or not it is still baby steps to reach each goal. Distractions makes the game fun and villains are born on the real path to each goal. Remembering that villains come and go. Rules come and go. On and on we go. Regards, Ariana

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3 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

Every hero needs a villain to confront, every villain needs a hero to test themselves against... and it often turns out that deciding who the hero and who the villain of a particular story is depends entirely on your point of view... and nothing more. 

 

It is a very subjective view on who is the hero and who is the villain based on the opinion of the person in question.

3 hours ago, Joebl0w13 said:

You guys sound like you “want” to be alphas on a PvP server. But the passive aggressive nature of PVE is just easier. 

You want to create all the rules. But you don’t want to have to fight off all the other people for the right to create those rules. The winner makes the rules. The loser is relegated to the history books. 

He stated that he doesn't want to fight people every day on PVP and that is why he is on PVE but he is willing to kite and complain when it happens to him. He wants to be an alpha without going through the stages of achieving true alpha status. 

We have all done the grind, bloodshed and diplomacy to earn alpha status. This guy just wants it given to him.

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Guest DJRone89

It appears to me that the mobs imposing the rules on the official PvE server like they own it are too scared to accept a Tribe War invitation because they know true PvP may not go in their favour so they resort to grieving.

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This server in question sounds like the exact reason there are checks and balances in most democratic institutions. They run this pve server based off of "Tyranny of the majority". I also wonder how many of these rules they enforce were actually agreed to by the "majority" of the players on the server or if most of the original majority have come and gone and all that remains are the rules they established? It could be a case where people coming onto the server are informed of the rules and choose to abide by them, but they had no part in deciding these rules. 

Personally, I'm glad I don't play on this server as it sounds even more toxic than most other pve servers and definitely worse than the pvp servers I first played on!

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Okay can I get some facepalms......While I understand some people lack respect on pve servers by multiple ways such as..and listen now...STEALING DROPS...you can't get a drop before it reaches the ground so you have to wait for it. Say another player sees the drop and also sees you standing there waiting for it and decides it's theirs instead. That is pigheaded and a theft. You would either have the mentality that it's rightfully whomever accesses inventory 1st (pigheaded) or your gonna be sneaky and (steal) said drop. Or be  respectful and fly away and say gl. It's downright slimeballish to take a drop when you see another player waiting for it. At least in pve. Anyways can there be a forum marked as dead horses to move topics like this too?

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1 minute ago, RaiderofthelostARK said:

Okay can I get some facepalms......While I understand some people lack respect on pve servers by multiple ways such as..and listen now...STEALING DROPS...you can't get a drop before it reaches the ground so you have to wait for it. Say another player sees the drop and also sees you standing there waiting for it and decides it's theirs instead. That is pigheaded and a theft. You would either have the mentality that it's rightfully whomever accesses inventory 1st (pigheaded) or your gonna be sneaky and (steal) said drop. Or be  respectful and fly away and say gl. It's downright slimeballish to take a drop when you see another player waiting for it. At least in pve. Anyways can there be a forum marked as dead horses to move topics like this too?

Official servers don’t have rules so if you play on a public server, you have every right to play as you please. If you expect people to have the same morals as you, then that’s on you.

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1 minute ago, RaiderofthelostARK said:

I'm fine with people with bad morals existing within the servers and in life I guess. But hell at least in real life I get to punish the theives that crawl into walmart lol. I can only hope at least 1 of them stole a drop in ark and I sent them to jail for shoplifting lmao!

I sympathise with OP on the whole drop stealing because I have a similar code of conduct on my server. This difference is, I own it because I host it.

You can’t enforce the same principles on a public PvE server just because that’s how you wish to play and then get a angry that someone has ignored you. They have no obligation to acknowledge you because you have no authority. That’s why OP will fail every time.

There isn’t any fair way to become an alpha on a public PvE server without Tribe Wars (PvP). Anything else is just griefing.

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On my legacy server we used to have some troll tribes: kiting stuff, stealing drops(yes, for me taking a drop someone has been waiting for is stealing), trying to attack tames.

As a server, most tribes knew eachother and had a feeling of mutual respect.

When a troll tribe would come, we would start by letting them know that our server was a peaceful one where everyone or almost everyone help and support eachother. Sometimes they would apologize, stop and move on. Some tribes of course were taking pleasure in trolling and didn't stop.

In those case what we would do is shun the tribe. Not answer to their request, refuse to trade with them and take screenshot and threaten a report when they were griefing.  IMO most people who join official are looking for a sense of community, taking away that aspect is not that hard and is completly legal.

After a couple of week of that, most tribe would leave, we had one tribe stay and kick the one player that was griefing. We didn't have many cases where things didn't change at least a bit.

I don't think it's possible to make the law on a PvE server but it's certainly possible to have a form of unity and repress those who feel like breaking it.

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41 minutes ago, DJRone89 said:

I sympathise with OP on the whole drop stealing because I have a similar code of conduct on my server. This difference is, I own it because I host it.

You can’t enforce the same principles on a public PvE server just because that’s how you wish to play and then get a angry that someone has ignored you. They have no obligation to acknowledge you because you have no authority. That’s why OP will fail every time.

There isn’t any fair way to become an alpha on a public PvE server without Tribe Wars (PvP). Anything else is just griefing.

Well alphas on PvP are alpha due to being able to crush opposing tribes...in pve it's usually the biggest built tribes that are consideed alpha

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If you're too slow to get a drop its your own fault, get over it.  99% of the time it is a A/C blueprint so honestly who the hell cares.  calling it "stealing" is hilarious in my opinion, its like if your driving on a highway on the left lane with a speed limit of 80 but you only go 30.  But someone passes you to get ahead, technically you were ahead of him so should he wait for you to change lanes? Or how about when you are at a cross section with 4 stop signs, and the person who was there first (on your left for example) hasn't moved for 60 seconds eventhough you flashed and beeped him, are you willing to just sit there until said person finishes posting a meme on instagram? No you are not, you give him 30 more seconds and two honks and move on with your day.  You know EXACTLY where the drop is coming from the beam of light, if your dumb and did not unmount prior to it landing, than that is a personal problem.  Griefing in PVE is wrong period, there is no excuse for that.  Just like bullying in real life, there is no legeitmate excuse to ever do such things.  Its a game, either you cleared the drop or you didn't.  Same goes for hunting, whoever kills the doe first wins, doesn't matter if you've been tracking it for two days or not.  

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26 minutes ago, bennyrodz said:

If you're too slow to get a drop its your own fault, get over it.  99% of the time it is a A/C blueprint so honestly who the hell cares.  calling it "stealing" is hilarious in my opinion, its like if your driving on a highway on the left lane with a speed limit of 80 but you only go 30.  But someone passes you to get ahead, technically you were ahead of him so should he wait for you to change lanes? Or how about when you are at a cross section with 4 stop signs, and the person who was there first (on your left for example) hasn't moved for 60 seconds eventhough you flashed and beeped him, are you willing to just sit there until said person finishes posting a meme on instagram? No you are not, you give him 30 more seconds and two honks and move on with your day.  You know EXACTLY where the drop is coming from the beam of light, if your dumb and did not unmount prior to it landing, than that is a personal problem.  Griefing in PVE is wrong period, there is no excuse for that.  Just like bullying in real life, there is no legeitmate excuse to ever do such things.  Its a game, either you cleared the drop or you didn't.  Same goes for hunting, whoever kills the doe first wins, doesn't matter if you've been tracking it for two days or not.  

1st. The person would be dismounted awaiting said drop. 2nd. Your comparison of drop stealing to driving like an old lady or young female is god awful. 3rd people typically track bucks and if a hunter was hunting a deer in an area he would probably be aware of other hunters and alert them to the buck that he spotted 1st...or keep it secret which would be his own fault for losing trophy. 4th. If the other Hunter knew about the other hunters trophy and killed it in spite...in a game the Hunter would simply shoot the other and drag the trophy to his home to process. In reality...anyways we are discussing if it's considered theft if you take a drop another player is waiting on. In my opinion if you say it's not a theft you as a person probably lack respect of others and other traits that most of humanity dispise...and further more for those that question if its right to do certain things In a video game such as ark. Ask yourself if you would do the same in reality...example would be...say there is a free copy of ARK aberration on a desk but you must wait 5 minutes to take it....you see someone waiting there and they have been there for 4 mintues would you cut in front of them and take it at the 5 minute mark? Also they could only talk to you and could not use any physical contact against you. Would you take the copy of aberration and not consider it theft ? Would you feel like they were slow to the grab? Also would you not feel guilty?

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18 minutes ago, Kai905 said:

Just curious what people thought of this scenario ...

you lure a dino into a trap and begin shooting it, then i swoop in and start shooting it aswell. Dino drops and i get the tame.....is it stealing or just luck of the draw ? 

Lol stealing...and I would put ceilings on the trap

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Honestly can't say how things work in a PvE server because I have only ever played PvP and the majority of the time has been officials, but the way it works on the servers I have played on is that if a survivor is at a drop the majority of the time you'd just let them take it out of respect, notable exceptions being when you are in another tribes territory you are expected to leave said drop and perhaps even apologize for trespassing, territory is decided by who has power in the area

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26 minutes ago, RaiderofthelostARK said:

In my opinion if you say it's not a theft you as a person probably lack respect of others and other traits that most of humanity dispise..

So just to clarify, if a person disagrees with anything you say it is because they lack respect and have traits that humanity despises.  That right there is a bully mentality. Just because someone disagrees with you, it's their fault and they are scum because of it. That's so laughable I can't even express it correctly in words. Everyone in ark has equal opportunity to every drop and cave in this game, and yet you seek for ways to get the advantage. So if I build my base directly next to a drop, does that mean that whenever I'm online near my base that drop will forever be mine due to the proximity, and that gives me the right to grief anyone that comes near it?  Stop being childish and get over it, first come first serve. This isn't Hello Kitty island adventure, if you want to impose your will on ohers play pvp it is built for that purpose. 

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9 minutes ago, bennyrodz said:

So just to clarify, if a person disagrees with anything you say it is because they lack respect and have traits that humanity despises.  That right there is a bully mentality. Just because someone disagrees with you, it's their fault and they are scum because of it. That's so laughable I can't even express it correctly in words. Everyone in ark has equal opportunity to every drop and cave in this game, and yet you seek for ways to get the advantage. So if I build my base directly next to a drop, does that mean that whenever I'm online near my base that drop will forever be mine due to the proximity, and that gives me the right to grief anyone that comes near it?  Stop being childish and get over it, first come first serve. This isn't Hello Kitty island adventure, if you want to impose your will on ohers play pvp it is built for that purpose. 

If you was standing next to the drop it's all yours bro. And apologies if my morals don't sound correct in your eyes. But there's things you don't do in the world. Also would you take the copy that the person was waiting on or not ? And don't side step that question you worm.  Lol just playing I love you 

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1 hour ago, RaiderofthelostARK said:

In reality...anyways we are discussing if it's considered theft if you take a drop another player is waiting on. In my opinion if you say it's not a theft you as a person probably lack respect of others and other traits that most of humanity dispise...and further more for those that question if its right to do certain things In a video game such as ark. Ask yourself if you would do the same in reality...

You are making the mistake of imposing real world social norms on individuals playing by a games rule set. 

You would never body slam someone to the ground because they were in your way in real life, but it's perfectly acceptable when playing (American) football.

You would never shoot a stranger in the head because he got to a vehicle you wanted to drive first, but it's perfectly acceptable in every FPS game you've likely ever played.

You probably would never systematically take every asset a person has with the objective of forcing them into complete bankruptcy and homelessness, however you gleefully do it to your own mother in a game of Monopoly.

When a person is playing a game by the rules there is no negative reflection on a person's character in reality.  It is only if they start breaking those rules in their game play that you can even begin to make any moral judgements about them.  Even then, cheating at checkers (or any other game) is a far cry from equating that behavior with the moral destitution that would be necessary to actually steal someone's property (or worse crimes) in real life.

In this scenario, the folks taking those drops if they can despite someone else attempting to do the same are absolutely playing by the official rules.  The only thing they are in violation of are the restrictions that another player is seeking to impose upon them.  That in no way casts a shadow on their moral compass in reality, anymore than a race car driver pulling ahead and in front of a fellow competitor. 

That is playing by the official rules, just as much as it is perfectly acceptable for you to disrupt the play of the person that took that drop first as long as you stay within the official rules as well.  Playing multiplayer PVE in most games absolutely does not mean that there can be no competition between players, it usually only means that direct attacks are not allowed and certain areas may be considered "out of bounds" for certain activities.  Players are allowed (and encouraged) to cooperate or compete as they see fit within those official restrictions.

If a person wishes to make their own version of the official rules they are free to do so on their own server.  Anything else is a voluntary arrangement between players that they are under no obligation to honor, and it is certainly no reflection on their moral character if they choose not to.  Frankly, the only people that would think it was are folks that are having trouble distinguishing actions taken within the rule set of a game from actions taken in reality... and that's a good indicator that they need to take a big step back to gain a little perspective.

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29 minutes ago, RaiderofthelostARK said:

If you was standing next to the drop it's all yours bro. And apologies if my morals don't sound correct in your eyes. But there's things you don't do in the world. Also would you take the copy that the person was waiting on or not ? And don't side step that question you worm.  Lol just playing I love you 

It's not even remotely about your morals, it's the simple fact that you consider everyone that opposes your point of view "lack respect and hold traits that humanity despose". As I said that's the bully mentality to the T. Okay so answer my question first, a driver in the left lane is legally going half the speed limit, what do you do? Wait for him to move over, or go around? It has nothing to do with age or gender, this is a common instance that happens thousands of times a day. 

 

I will repeat everyone has equal opportunity to every drop, the light shines a mile long. 

 

And I see you avoided the second question as well, if you build a base next to a drop, and you are always on. Is that drop forever your property?  Simple question. Proximity does not claim ownership and neither does "dibs" first to pull it is the first to receive it, end of story. And if you no longer want completion (literally the only source of competition in pve) play single player for as long as your heart desires. 

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