Reaper King

[banggugyangu]

Then by what you're saying,  if the non-% damage doesn't matter, then the HP amount is irrelevant.  Whatever has the highest damage output will be best.  In this regard,  unless you're unlucky with damage rolls, Reapers stand to be an easy-to-obtain alternative for rexes.  As far as your experiences with reapers, what levels were they?  I was going off a sample size of about 25 reapers.  After leveling them up,  as I said,  reaching 1000%+ melee with a minimum of 50k HP was trivial on every one of them.

[bigfishrob]

13 minutes ago, banggugyangu said:

Then by what you're saying,  if the non-% damage doesn't matter, then the HP amount is irrelevant.  Whatever has the highest damage output will be best.  In this regard,  unless you're unlucky with damage rolls, Reapers stand to be an easy-to-obtain alternative for rexes.  As far as your experiences with reapers, what levels were they?  I was going off a sample size of about 25 reapers.  After leveling them up,  as I said,  reaching 1000%+ melee with a minimum of 50k HP was trivial on every one of them.

My tribe has about 12. i personally have 7 i had one that was 135, everything else was 145-150. Half of these reapers i got prego all on my own and farm reapers to level. Avg base melee pre imprint was about 310. Post imprint about 340. Highest and it was only one is 355 with post looking like it will be 410ish. 50k hp and 1000 melee seems a bit out of reach on official rates. i have about 35 level or so in and have my best grown reaper to about 650 melee and only the post imprinted hp of 27k. 35 more levels wont push hp and melee that high. Also even with 100% imprint on avg i still only get about 6 points of melee per point. These are all on official nothing spawned(keep in mind SP and dedi get dif values so it wont compare equally)

[banggugyangu]

Well,  my testing was done with 1x on all stats (wild and tamed)[aka official].  There wasn't a single reaper in my tests that was unable to reach 50k/1000% (all were 225 [150+75]).  It's possible that I was very lucky during my tests, as I could have had a larger sample size, but 25 dinos of the same level is usually enough to determine a trend.

[bigfishrob]

2 minutes ago, banggugyangu said:

Well,  my testing was done with 1x on all stats (wild and tamed)[aka official].  There wasn't a single reaper in my tests that was unable to reach 50k/1000% (all were 225 [150+75]).  It's possible that I was very lucky during my tests, as I could have had a larger sample size, but 25 dinos of the same level is usually enough to determine a trend.

sp stats 1x or not ARE NOT SAME as official. ALL of mine got the full 75 bonus levels. I wish we could get a sticky explaining to ppl that SP and dedi stats do NOT correlate to official rates, they always avg higher and you get more increase per point. I bet you get about 18 melee points per level in melee also like the tiger fella dont ya. We only get 6 points avg even with a 355 base melee.

[bigfishrob]

27 minutes ago, banggugyangu said:

Then by what you're saying,  if the non-% damage doesn't matter, then the HP amount is irrelevant.  Whatever has the highest damage output will be best.  In this regard,  unless you're unlucky with damage rolls, Reapers stand to be an easy-to-obtain alternative for rexes.  As far as your experiences with reapers, what levels were they?  I was going off a sample size of about 25 reapers.  After leveling them up,  as I said,  reaching 1000%+ melee with a minimum of 50k HP was trivial on every one of them.

Oh and the hp is irrelevant for the most part. We did alpha on official with 11.2k hp and 414 melee base(wild tame stats not uber bred). We isolate the breath by running something to it either a rex, deer, or barryonx and agro it. so only one or two dinos per breath gets hit then cycle. In between when he in the air we shoot, when under 15% we charge and chomp.

[Olivar]

19 minutes ago, banggugyangu said:

Well,  my testing was done with 1x on all stats (wild and tamed)[aka official].  There wasn't a single reaper in my tests that was unable to reach 50k/1000% (all were 225 [150+75]).  It's possible that I was very lucky during my tests, as I could have had a larger sample size, but 25 dinos of the same level is usually enough to determine a trend.

There lies the problem most likely.
Official Servers do not use 1 for all stat modifiers. There's a few like melee damage that have lowered values to keep the balance for dino's in check.
Can do some searching to see if I can find the post somewhere, but there was a table published once with the correct settings that need to be applied.

[banggugyangu]

10 minutes ago, bigfishrob said:

sp stats 1x or not ARE NOT SAME as official. ALL of mine got the full 75 bonus levels. I wish we could get a sticky explaining to ppl that SP and dedi stats do NOT correlate to official rates, they always avg higher and you get more increase per point. I bet you get about 18 melee points per level in melee also like the tiger fella dont ya. We only get 6 points avg even with a 355 base melee.

@ least for xbox/UWP,  1x IS official.  This is easily tested on the movement speed growth for the crab and reaper, and the survivor stats.  I can't speak for PC on that matter, but the growth per tamed level did come out to the 1.75% of the post-tame melee damage.  After doing a quick calculation, it does look like each one was a lottery winner, though, as they all had at least 40 levels in melee pre-imprint.  Post-imprint, if you're sitting at 500% melee damage, you'd be getting 8.5% per level.  I'll test further sometime this week, though, with a much larger sample size.

[bigfishrob]

1 minute ago, banggugyangu said:

@ least for xbox/UWP,  1x IS official.  This is easily tested on the movement speed growth for the crab and reaper, and the survivor stats.  I can't speak for PC on that matter, but the growth per tamed level did come out to the 1.75% of the post-tame melee damage.  After doing a quick calculation, it does look like each one was a lottery winner, though, as they all had at least 40 levels in melee pre-imprint.  Post-imprint, if you're sitting at 500% melee damage, you'd be getting 8.5% per level.  I'll test further sometime this week, though, with a much larger sample size.

40 levels on all in pre imprint and u cant acknowledge that those are not equiv or comparable for official. Even on my highest reaper of 355 (feels like a lotery draw) 100% imprint which i am on a good track to hit will still be 50 points shy of 500 possibly. And if u are basing ur avg dino off this for a replacement for rexes which we have known official stats then u are expecting 15-20 lottery draw reapers. Even if u chain prego that is a max of 2 reapers per day (24/7 logon time mind u). For 2 ppl that is 4 days minimum. In for days u could hatch and raise 20 rexes with for sure stats and farm mats to make saddles. 

Also there is absolutely NO for sure settings to match official with sp or dedi bc the official settings are NOT published at all.

[banggugyangu]

4 minutes ago, bigfishrob said:

40 levels on all in pre imprint and u cant acknowledge that those are not equiv or comparable for official. Even on my highest reaper of 355 (feels like a lotery draw) 100% imprint which i am on a good track to hit will still be 50 points shy of 500 possibly. And if u are basing ur avg dino off this for a replacement for rexes which we have known official stats then u are expecting 15-20 lottery draw reapers. Even if u chain prego that is a max of 2 reapers per day (24/7 logon time mind u). For 2 ppl that is 4 days minimum. In for days u could hatch and raise 20 rexes with for sure stats and farm mats to make saddles. 

Also there is absolutely NO for sure settings to match official with sp or dedi bc the official settings are NOT published at all.

I'm not sure you understand how stats actually work in the game.  There are base stats (what you get at level 1) which cannot be changed at all.  Then there is wild level growth (which we have REAL data for and is easily tested.) and tamed level growth (which we also have REAL data for and is tested even easier.)  If you set the settings to 1x on an xbox and knock a dino out, you can then calculate how many levels go into each stat.  After you've done that, you can then use the torpor to see how many went into movement speed.  If, according to the known official stat growth, those stats add up to the dino's level number, then you're on official wild stats.  On Xbox and UWP, 1x results in this.  If you tame a level 1 dino, you can easily test the tamed stat growth settings.  If you're set to official rates, you'll gain exactly the same as the known data.  Again... on Xbox and UWP, this is 1x in the server settings.  The official tame affinity for xbox and UWP is ALSO 1x.  Again. I can't speak for steam, but for xbox and UWP 1x IS official.

[bigfishrob]

13 minutes ago, banggugyangu said:

I'm not sure you understand how stats actually work in the game.  There are base stats (what you get at level 1) which cannot be changed at all.  Then there is wild level growth (which we have REAL data for and is easily tested.) and tamed level growth (which we also have REAL data for and is tested even easier.)  If you set the settings to 1x on an xbox and knock a dino out, you can then calculate how many levels go into each stat.  After you've done that, you can then use the torpor to see how many went into movement speed.  If, according to the known official stat growth, those stats add up to the dino's level number, then you're on official wild stats.  On Xbox and UWP, 1x results in this.  If you tame a level 1 dino, you can easily test the tamed stat growth settings.  If you're set to official rates, you'll gain exactly the same as the known data.  Again... on Xbox and UWP, this is 1x in the server settings.  The official tame affinity for xbox and UWP is ALSO 1x.  Again. I can't speak for steam, but for xbox and UWP 1x IS official.

First off you cannot tame a level 1 dino on official to compare, therefore, never getting a true baseline to compare base. You do NOT have the official tame affinity as it is not published, nor do you have the actual growth, per level ect. Your stats you provided alone provide evidence that it is not the same. statistically it is almost impossible for you to get 40 points in melee on all of 25 rolls. Maybe pc is dif from xbox stats or growth, though historically on trading forums i have seen fairly comparable stats so i am not sure this is or is not true. I have a post imprint 100% imprinted melee of 352 i think it was. First melee point into it gave about 5.5 to 6 points of melee increase. Roll your spawn ins til you get a post imprint melee of 350 ish and apply one point and see how much melee you get. What i can tell you is 35 points applied just in melee from a post imprint with 100% imprint only put my reaper to 650. leaving 35 points to get from 26k hp to 50 and still gain 350 more melee. Seeing as the first 35 points only got me 300 melee i doubt another 35 points will get me 25k more hp AND 350 more melee. 

 

I get it ppl want to be able to compare SP and Dedi to official, but it doesn't. SP has bonuses imbeded to make game play possible as a solo player where as official is geared around tribe play for end game, meaning things are made easier to allow a solo player to do what a tribe is normally needed to do. Dedi simply cannot match the exact ini and typically has boosted gather, boosted birth altered imprints ect which effect the values.

[banggugyangu]

1:  Yes, you CAN tame a level 1 on official.  Go to Scorched Earth and tame a jerboa.

2:  While official stats may not be published, they're EASILY calculated.  People have already done this, the data is freely available.

3:  Statistical improbability is NOT the same thing as impossibility.   It's unlikely, but very much possible.

4:  The official RATES are the same regardless of platform.   I can't speak for the server settings of steam version, but for Xbox/UWP, 1x on the server settings is the equivalent of official.  In fact, the only setting  I've found that, by default, is  NOT the same as official is the Difficulty setting, which defaults to 0.2.

5:  Reaper melee growth is 1.75%.  This is the percentage of its melee damage from the point when it can first start gaining EXP.  This means 500% melee results in 8.5% growth per tamed level or 6.5625 damage per melee level.  60 levels in melee at 500% post-imprint/pre-exp would result in 1010% melee on a reaper.  This is with OFFICIAL stat growth.

[bigfishrob]

27 minutes ago, banggugyangu said:

1:  Yes, you CAN tame a level 1 on official.  Go to Scorched Earth and tame a jerboa.

2:  While official stats may not be published, they're EASILY calculated.  People have already done this, the data is freely available.

3:  Statistical improbability is NOT the same thing as impossibility.   It's unlikely, but very much possible.

4:  The official RATES are the same regardless of platform.   I can't speak for the server settings of steam version, but for Xbox/UWP, 1x on the server settings is the equivalent of official.  In fact, the only setting  I've found that, by default, is  NOT the same as official is the Difficulty setting, which defaults to 0.2.

5:  Reaper melee growth is 1.75%.  This is the percentage of its melee damage from the point when it can first start gaining EXP.  This means 500% melee results in 8.5% growth per tamed level or 6.5625 damage per melee level.  60 levels in melee at 500% post-imprint/pre-exp would result in 1010% melee on a reaper.  This is with OFFICIAL stat growth.

So you wanna test stat comparisons for melee on a jerboa ehh? Also has anyone seen a 500% post tame on official??(please chime in to confirm if you have) Out of 12 reapers the highest was 355 and even it will not come close to 500 post tame. So your claim that 50k and 1010 melee is "easily" done is not true. And if it takes you 60 points to get to 1010 melee that leaves you 11 points to get from 27k(highest post tame i have seen) to 50k would imply a 2k hp increase per level.... we get about 700 hp per level so maxing out 34k hp to go with 1010 melee.

So your avg on reapers wild tame for 150's is about 500 post imprint melee with what, 42k hp? WOW if we could get that on official OMG i would say replace other stuff too. At least 2 of my reapers are 150s and 4 are 145s. These are also very difficult to come by and i spent many many hours killing reaper after reaper to even get these to spawn. Your avg stat is better than what a god roll for us would be. We would need a pre imprint value of about 27-31k hp and melee of 380ish. I am at work and dont have access to smart breeder but i bet you money that is a good bit more than 40 pts per stat(hp and melee) which by far and away would not be considered avg.

 

" It's unlikely, but very much possible. " pretty much an outright contradicting statement but ok.

[Wazzamaniac]

1 hour ago, banggugyangu said:

@ least for xbox/UWP,  1x IS official.  This is easily tested on the movement speed growth for the crab and reaper, and the survivor stats.  I can't speak for PC on that matter, but the growth per tamed level did come out to the 1.75% of the post-tame melee damage.  After doing a quick calculation, it does look like each one was a lottery winner, though, as they all had at least 40 levels in melee pre-imprint.  Post-imprint, if you're sitting at 500% melee damage, you'd be getting 8.5% per level.  I'll test further sometime this week, though, with a much larger sample size.

You are dead wrong.

This is from someone who has played 2.4k hours on official.

Singleplayer gets way more melee; You cant get 50k AND 1000%, because on official you can only go one way or the other; high melee or high hp. Ive spawned reapers on singleplayer. They get the high stats much quicker than my actual reaper. If i calculate right, mine fully leveled will be 30k/840%. Since i got a bad hp roll a better one would max out at 40k/840%. You are saying MINIMUM 50k hp with the same melee, and i dont believe that for official.

[banggugyangu]

1 hour ago, bigfishrob said:

" It's unlikely, but very much possible. " pretty much an outright contradicting statement but ok.

Which word are you confused about?  "Unlikely" or "Possible"?  They aren't antonyms.  They don't mean the opposite of one another.  The 2 words do not contradict one another in any way.   In fact, they suggest similar situations, being that both words imply a chance of something happening.

[bigfishrob]

1 hour ago, banggugyangu said:

Which word are you confused about?  "Unlikely" or "Possible"?  They aren't antonyms.  They don't mean the opposite of one another.  The 2 words do not contradict one another in any way.   In fact, they suggest similar situations, being that both words imply a chance of something happening.

very much possible implies it is likely but you say it is unlikely. If anything it is statistically almost impossible. What it actually indicates is exactly what i have tried to tell you that sp gets some bonuses and the values are not accurate for official. Your whole justification of being "the same" revolves around getting similar results on official vs sp....... here it is demonstrated to be false by this data or at a minimum exceptionally unlikely to be the same. But even given if you could get that base stat, 50k and 1030 melee are impossible to get both, AND that assumes a fully maxed out every level which is somewhere about 2 mil xp per dino which in official is almost NEVER achieved let alone productive for boss fighting when you need multiple of that caliber. Typically we level rexes about 40 levels throw a saddle on them and toss em in on alpha bosses. 40 levels wont have much on a reaper.

[banggugyangu]

7 minutes ago, bigfishrob said:

very much possible implies it is likely but you say it is unlikely. 

Lolz... no.  "Possible" doesn't refer to probability whatsoever, except to say that the probability isn't 0.  Possibility has no bearing on likelihood.  This fact does not change regardless of what adverbs you use to describe "possible".

[Wazzamaniac]

8 minutes ago, banggugyangu said:

Lolz... no.  "Possible" doesn't refer to probability whatsoever, except to say that the probability isn't 0.  Possibility has no bearing on likelihood.  This fact does not change regardless of what adverbs you use to describe "possible".

You have two people with a lot of experience on official versus your unverified theoretical tests. Weve been breeding and taming dinos on official and have seen capabilities of stats and how far you can push the limits on tames. Let it go. There is a setting that you didn't correctly calibrate, because reapers will not reach 50k hp easily and then also reach 1k melee. Its one or the other.

In fact, any dino I level to 1k melee basically gets a zero point investment in anything else. My argentavis born at 384% melee is now at 975% or so melee and has zero points in anything else, with extensive use. It also gets a huge amount of melee per point for some reason, more than my reapers.

[Olivar]

19 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said:

You have two people with a lot of experience on official versus your unverified theoretical tests. Weve been breeding and taming dinos on official and have seen capabilities of stats and how far you can push the limits on tames. Let it go. There is a setting that you didn't correctly calibrate, because reapers will not reach 50k hp easily and then also reach 1k melee. Its one or the other.

In fact, any dino I level to 1k melee basically gets a zero point investment in anything else. My argentavis born at 384% melee is now at 975% or so melee and has zero points in anything else, with extensive use. It also gets a huge amount of melee per point for some reason, more than my reapers.

We're finished raising a Reaper king right now as I'm typing this on our cluster.
Well Meshi did....
(it's on 98.6% matured)

His stats:

• Level 210
• HP : 25.6k
• Melee : 284%
• Imprint : 100%

So 50k HP and 1000% melee sounds really unlikely.
And that's with our cluster running on the default values for the entire imprint, having them deliberately removed from our config to let the game run it's default settings.
So no, I'm also not buying those numbers as that would be more than double of our numbers, and we got a baby at 135 + 75 levels from killing stuff.
The 15 additional levels we could have gotten do not magically double his stats.

NOTE: Will post actual stats when it's matured.

[Wazzamaniac]

1 minute ago, Olivar said:

We're finished raising a Reaper king right now as I'm typing this on our cluster.
Well Meshi did....
(it's on 98.6% matured)

His stats:

• Level 210
• HP : 22k
• Melee : 280%
• Imprint : 83%

So 50k HP and 1000% melee sounds really unlikely.
And that's with our cluster running on the default values for the entire imprint, having them deliberately removed from our config to let the game run it's default settings.
So no, I'm also not buying those numbers as that would be more than double of our numbers, and we got a baby at 135 + 75 levels from killing stuff.
The 15 additional levels we could have gotten do not magically double his stats.

NOTE: Will post actual stats when it's matured.

Well, not defending his point of view but he did mean leveled. That said, I still say its not possible normally.

[Olivar]

stats updated as baby is grown up.

She's leveling it up now.

One point in HP gives him 700 health.
So pushing him to 50000 HP would require 35 levels.
Which means the remaining 36 levels would require him to give 220% melee or 6% per point.
 

So well, @banggugyangu is correct, it's doable with all settings on default.
Whether official runs those values is a different story, but I'm running the default configuration for the attribute multiplies, so theoretically it's possible

EDIT: We tested a melee level up and got 5.5%, and our imprint kicked in, pushing our starting melee to 325%. So yes, it's possible with the "default" settings.

[Wazzamaniac]

9 minutes ago, Olivar said:

stats updated as baby is grown up.

She's leveling it up now.

One point in HP gives him 700 health.
So pushing him to 50000 HP would require 35 levels.
Which means the remaining 36 levels would require him to give 220% melee or 6% per point.
 

So well, @banggugyangu is correct, it's doable with all settings on default.
Whether official runs those values is a different story, but I'm running the default configuration for the attribute multiplies, so theoretically it's possible

EDIT: We tested a melee level up and got 5.5%, and our imprint kicked in, pushing our starting melee to 325%. So yes, it's possible with the "default" settings.

No, a good reaper gets 400+% melee after imprint and 7% per point or so. Getting to 1k% would take you an extra 85 levels. The hp is reachable, but melee would be max 700% or so. Hes saying he can get 50k/1000%.

[banggugyangu]

12 minutes ago, Olivar said:

stats updated as baby is grown up.

She's leveling it up now.

One point in HP gives him 700 health.
So pushing him to 50000 HP would require 35 levels.
Which means the remaining 36 levels would require him to give 220% melee or 6% per point.
 

So well, @banggugyangu is correct, it's doable with all settings on default.
Whether official runs those values is a different story, but I'm running the default configuration for the attribute multiplies, so theoretically it's possible

EDIT: We tested a melee level up and got 5.5%, and our imprint kicked in, pushing our starting melee to 325%. So yes, it's possible with the "default" settings.

Also, to note,  I was mistaken,  default HP and melee wild per level mult is 0.17, and tamed is 0.14.   So yes, 1x would be way higher.   I'm using default, though.  Also,  I admitted that apparently my sample size was too small and I got lottery winners in stats on each of them.  That said,   It'd be interested in some testing to see if maybe one of the buffs they made to reapers was weighting the probability of levels going into the more noteworthy stats.  25/25 reapers having 35+ melee levels, even as level 225 is extremely unlikely, I know.

Also,  in some testing I did a few hours ago,  it seems that there's an innate +75% to melee damage for a tamed reaper.  Level 1 kings were starting with 175% melee damage using both dotame (applying affinity if applicable) and forcetame  (no affinity bonuses whatsoever).

[Olivar]

3 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said:

No, a good reaper gets 400+% melee after imprint and 7% per point or so. Getting to 1k% would take you an extra 85 levels. The hp is reachable, but melee would be max 700% or so. Hes saying he can get 50k/1000%.

Ah my bad! I was going for the 500% melee range.
1000% melee is not possible with the numbers I've just ran.

50k / 500% melee : definitely doable.
50k / 1000% melee : not doable on default settings.

2 minutes ago, banggugyangu said:

Also, to note,  I was mistaken,  default HP and melee wild per level mult is 0.17, and tamed is 0.14.   So yes, 1x would be way higher.   I'm using default, though.  Also,  I admitted that apparently my sample size was too small and I got lottery winners in stats on each of them.  That said,   It'd be interested in some testing to see if maybe one of the buffs they made to reapers was weighting the probability of levels going into the more noteworthy stats.  25/25 reapers having 35+ melee levels, even as level 225 is extremely unlikely, I know.

I remember this discussion from reddit.
I know the wiki and description says all attributes default to 1.0 when not set, but that's when they were released as configuration option.
Sometime later there was an update where Wildcard changed the values.
So the question is:

If you do not set the configuration, and let the game fall back on it's default values, do you then have the intended values by Wildcard, which would be 0.17 and 0.14, or still get one?
Sadly I doubt we will ever get the answer to this.

[Wazzamaniac]

1 minute ago, Olivar said:

Ah my bad! I was going for the 500% melee range.
1000% melee is not possible with the numbers I've just ran.

50k / 500% melee : definitely doable.
50k / 1000% melee : not doable on default settings.

I remember this discussion from reddit.
I know the wiki and description says all attributes default to 1.0 when not set, but that's when they were released as configuration option.
Sometime later there was an update where Wildcard changed the values.
So the question is:

If you do not set the configuration, and let the game fall back on it's default values, do you then have the intended values by Wildcard, which would be 0.17 and 0.14, or still get one?
Sadly I doubt we will ever get the answer to this.

I can agree 50k/500% is doable and may be even viable for pvp tanking purposes

[banggugyangu]

7 minutes ago, Olivar said:

Ah my bad! I was going for the 500% melee range.
1000% melee is not possible with the numbers I've just ran.

50k / 500% melee : definitely doable.
50k / 1000% melee : not doable on default settings.

I remember this discussion from reddit.
I know the wiki and description says all attributes default to 1.0 when not set, but that's when they were released as configuration option.
Sometime later there was an update where Wildcard changed the values.
So the question is:

If you do not set the configuration, and let the game fall back on it's default values, do you then have the intended values by Wildcard, which would be 0.17 and 0.14, or still get one?
Sadly I doubt we will ever get the answer to this.

This is what I was testing today w/ level 1 and level 2 reapers.  What I found was, yes.  the DEFAULT settings (0.17 and 0.14 for HP and melee wild/tamed respectively) are the official settings, though it looks like the innate +75% on melee is calculated after the wild levels.

*edit* just some quick calcs,  if the +75% is indeed post-wild levels, then 30 melee levels  (average for 225) would be 393.75% melee post-imprint.  40 levels  (good) would be 472.5% post-imprint.  50 levels (what most boss rexes have) would be 551.25% starting melee post-imprint.  40 tamed levels would give 385.875 for a total of 930%.  The reaper seems to have a buff to imprint HP.  (15k HP was boosting to around 25-26k post-imprint).  35 wild levels would give 14690.  In the event that you win the lottery on melee and end up w/ 50 levels, there's still a really good chance to get 35 levels in health, so this number isn't far off.   This would net you close to 25k health after imprint.  At the 2.7% growth, you're looking at another 21k for a total of 26k health.

 

As  I said, My spawns clearly were lottery winners, but it's not impossible.