Kayin Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 19 Therizinos: 68 armor MC saddle 15k health 500% melee full stack of 5 cakes on each. 3 riders. We keep failing. What keeps happening is that 2 people get fireballed immediately leaving 1 rider, but even with all Theriz's on attack target they can't take it down. This is the Gamma dragon. I'm seeing people on officials taking it down with much less. We've tried to take a Yut but it gets focused almost immediately and dies quickly everytime. I'm wondering if it'd just be better to have a 20th theriz? Even still, how can I possibly take down a Beta or Alpha? I'm running the west water cave religiously and haven't found a better saddle in months. I play on an unofficial with vanilla settings so please don't tell me to trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiDarko Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Health seems a little low to me and I'd recommend a high level Yuty with 20k health, 3k+ stam and a good saddle + 1 Daeodon with high health and food stats. Try bug repellant on the Yuty... Are your creatures imprinted as well? If the Dragon is the last boss you have to defeat I also recommend to do the Ragnarok-variant because it is waaaaay easier to defeat, even with the Manticore, Griffins and Golems helping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorium Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 You need 21k health to get the full effect of the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttoGrunf Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Kayin said: 19 Therizinos: 68 armor MC saddle 15k health 500% melee full stack of 5 cakes on each. 3 riders. We keep failing. What keeps happening is that 2 people get fireballed immediately leaving 1 rider, but even with all Theriz's on attack target they can't take it down. This is the Gamma dragon. I'm seeing people on officials taking it down with much less. We've tried to take a Yut but it gets focused almost immediately and dies quickly everytime. I'm wondering if it'd just be better to have a 20th theriz? Even still, how can I possibly take down a Beta or Alpha? I'm running the west water cave religiously and haven't found a better saddle in months. I play on an unofficial with vanilla settings so please don't tell me to trade. you are not using right tactics. for dragon, you should have 2 megaloceros (deer) with riders that shoot when dragon is in air to attract them. when he lands and deer is under it, its hard for dragon to hit it. when you get damaged, you switch with second deer and rider and heal first one with veggie cakes. third player drives therezinos to charge dragon when on ground and run when its in air. also heals therezinos with veggie cakes. so yes, it can be done with 3 players and good animals with tactics i just wrote you about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivar Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Your setup sounds about right, but as mentioned it's probably down to execution. What helps is putting your chickens in the center of the area and just leave them there on Neutral. Those on dinosaurs should spread out and keep moving/running to avoid the fireballs. Quickly gather with the dinosaurs when the adds spawn, kill everything and spread again. As soon as the Dragon lands, send in the chickens and attack him. Keep an eye on the health of chickens and pull them out for healing. You can try rotating tanking with the riders if possible, but it's not guaranteed to work. 1 hour ago, OttoGrunf said: you are not using right tactics. for dragon, you should have 2 megaloceros (deer) with riders that shoot when dragon is in air to attract them. when he lands and deer is under it, its hard for dragon to hit it. when you get damaged, you switch with second deer and rider and heal first one with veggie cakes. third player drives therezinos to charge dragon when on ground and run when its in air. also heals therezinos with veggie cakes. so yes, it can be done with 3 players and good animals with tactics i just wrote you about Using the deers and getting them under the boss to glitch it out so he cannot hit is considered a bug by many. I don't know what Wildcard's stance on the process is, but seeing as they patched the bosses before because people got them stuck using Rexes, I would assume this behavior is not condoned either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfishrob Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Kayin said: 19 Therizinos: 68 armor MC saddle 15k health 500% melee full stack of 5 cakes on each. 3 riders. We keep failing. What keeps happening is that 2 people get fireballed immediately leaving 1 rider, but even with all Theriz's on attack target they can't take it down. This is the Gamma dragon. I'm seeing people on officials taking it down with much less. We've tried to take a Yut but it gets focused almost immediately and dies quickly everytime. I'm wondering if it'd just be better to have a 20th theriz? Even still, how can I possibly take down a Beta or Alpha? I'm running the west water cave religiously and haven't found a better saddle in months. I play on an unofficial with vanilla settings so please don't tell me to trade. lol ur using theriz thas the problem. Theriz aint the silver bullet some ppl make it out to be. the point i have tried to make is the mechanic of DONT STAND IN STUFF. no excuse for getting hit by a fireball and little reason you cant make fire breath only hit one or two specific dinos at a time. Dragon insta focuses Yuty bc it is a carnovoir and higher on agro focus. I cant make a theri while attacking dragon or the golems on rag ect to de agro a passive rex no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfishrob Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 gonna laugh a bit when that deer glitch gets nerfed and the veggie cakes get nerfed. Theriz will go poof and ppl will once again have to focus on just mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivar Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 @Kayin I've looked at the stats your therizino's have compared to ours, and I kind of have to agree with @Thorium, you definitely want to aim at 21k health for them. It will lower the melee damage a bit, but it increases their serviceability as well as they can take more of a beating, by reaching the maximum healing efficiency you can obtain with the cakes. Cakes heal for 10% with a maximum of 2100 health until Wildcard decides to change it. So you want to capitalize on this really as much as you can. Could you give some more details about your Therizinosaurs as well? What level are they, what mutations did you put in them etc? Perhaps we can figure out if it's worth it to make them stronger or not, although we took down gamma with just 19 wild ones on our server. So I'm going to stick with my assumption for now that you're simply executing the tactic incorrectly. Also the saddle sounds good too be honest. We use a 72 Ascended Saddle, and we take almost no damage on the Therizino's, so you should be fine really. Pretty sure you just need to learn to move about. Don't give up, you can definitely do this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayin Posted December 12, 2017 Author Share Posted December 12, 2017 @Olivar Thanks for the assistance: Pictures here: https://imgur.com/a/WM9qN The Therizino in the picture is one of our few remaining boss fighters. 100% imprint bred and sitting at lvl 245. We haven't put the MC saddle on it yet (they're expensive). Picture 2 is the BP. Our crafter has a boost that gets it up to 68 on average. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower. We'll work on getting the next crop's health up in exchange for melee to max out the cakes. The real PITA of this is that we can't really practice the dragon fights. It's SO expensive to lose 20 and have to rebuild. Ugh. I do think everyone here is right though. Our tactics are pretty bad. Again, not a lot of room for practice. Still, are tactics the difference between being wiped on a Gamma and defeating an Alpha? It's that big of a difference? -K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttoGrunf Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Olivar said: Using the deers and getting them under the boss to glitch it out so he cannot hit is considered a bug by many. I don't know what Wildcard's stance on the process is, but seeing as they patched the bosses before because people got them stuck using Rexes, I would assume this behavior is not condoned either. rex glitch used to get them stuck, they arent stuck with deers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivar Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 @Kayin Tactics for alpha remain the same as for gamma/beta. The boss only has more health and damage so you need stronger dinosaurs each time. Those you have shown should be able to kill gamma normally, although you will take a few losses I suppose. Do they have mutations in them? Or are they just a few bread generations for higher levels? 6 hours ago, OttoGrunf said: rex glitch used to get them stuck, they arent stuck with deers No, but the deer makes them do nothing either breaking their AI, which trivialised the fight as well since it tries to hit the deer but can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttoGrunf Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Olivar said: No, but the deer makes them do nothing either breaking their AI, which trivialised the fight as well since it tries to hit the deer but can't. for us that dont belong to megatribe that fight is not trivial and dragon does damage deer but this way you can at least survive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivar Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, OttoGrunf said: for us that dont belong to megatribe that fight is not trivial and dragon does damage deer but this way you can at least survive Which is a lame excuse, since my tribe is 3 people in size and we did Alpha Ascension. You can frigging solo the dragon fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfishrob Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 7 hours ago, Olivar said: Which is a lame excuse, since my tribe is 3 people in size and we did Alpha Ascension. You can frigging solo the dragon fight. lol i can solo dragon on my dedi too........ROFLMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfishrob Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 15 hours ago, Kayin said: @Olivar Thanks for the assistance: Pictures here: https://imgur.com/a/WM9qN The Therizino in the picture is one of our few remaining boss fighters. 100% imprint bred and sitting at lvl 245. We haven't put the MC saddle on it yet (they're expensive). Picture 2 is the BP. Our crafter has a boost that gets it up to 68 on average. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower. We'll work on getting the next crop's health up in exchange for melee to max out the cakes. The real PITA of this is that we can't really practice the dragon fights. It's SO expensive to lose 20 and have to rebuild. Ugh. I do think everyone here is right though. Our tactics are pretty bad. Again, not a lot of room for practice. Still, are tactics the difference between being wiped on a Gamma and defeating an Alpha? It's that big of a difference? -K the big difference is gamma has less health the mechanics are the same. you can power through gamma bc u have enough nuke damage. eventually it would be the same with dragon after dinos are bred to heck and back and dps increases. There is one thing i aggree with using a dedi for and that is practicing movement. it is a great tool for messing with how the boss moves how the bosses land and how it reacts to dif things. You still have to account for how much will server lag effect its movement, bc it will. I do not think looking at stats for a dedi are worth anything despite ppls claims it is the same.... it is NOT. You need to do the math calculations based off healthpool and your dinos, use the dedi to parctice movements and dodging then go for it with a fleet that the math and dps numbers work to beat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivar Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 hours ago, bigfishrob said: lol i can solo dragon on my dedi too........ROFLMAO 2 hours ago, bigfishrob said: the big difference is gamma has less health the mechanics are the same. you can power through gamma bc u have enough nuke damage. eventually it would be the same with dragon after dinos are bred to heck and back and dps increases. There is one thing i aggree with using a dedi for and that is practicing movement. it is a great tool for messing with how the boss moves how the bosses land and how it reacts to dif things. You still have to account for how much will server lag effect its movement, bc it will. I do not think looking at stats for a dedi are worth anything despite ppls claims it is the same.... it is NOT. You need to do the math calculations based off healthpool and your dinos, use the dedi to parctice movements and dodging then go for it with a fleet that the math and dps numbers work to beat it. So you know how to read? I'm just asking, cause you're spouting your "Official Fanboi" nonsense in a topic about unofficial servers. Shouldn't you be arguing with @HalfSlabBacon somewhere about taming? Or have you finally caved in and accepted the position about unofficials now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dslick Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 I can attest for official server ping + server load definitely affects fighting ANYTHING. My boss fights lately on rag are lasting 3 minutes on gamma due to everyone being on abberation, because everything AI based is attacking 2-3 times as fast. Even iceworms in the cave are attacking at LEAST twice as fast. I can usually pump two shells before having to block the next attack, now i don't even have time to shoot one before it attacks. With lag, your whistles aren't as responsive as well. For Dragon fights, it's based off of DPS and how many breaths your dinos can endure if going the dino only route. On a nice server with low ping, you bet the Dragon is going to roast 2-3 times as much, and your dinos doing 2-3x the DPS. Therizinos are good because they can last longer than rexes. Too many variables affect consistent DPS (whistle, positioning, lag), so you want to focus on endurance, hence Therizinos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfishrob Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 1 minute ago, dslick said: I can attest for official server ping + server load definitely affects fighting ANYTHING. My boss fights lately on rag are lasting 3 minutes on gamma due to everyone being on abberation, because everything AI based is attacking 2-3 times as fast. Even iceworms in the cave are attacking at LEAST twice as fast. I can usually pump two shells before having to block the next attack, now i don't even have time to shoot one before it attacks. With lag, your whistles aren't as responsive as well. For Dragon fights, it's based off of DPS and how many breaths your dinos can endure if going the dino only route. On a nice server with low ping, you bet the Dragon is going to roast 2-3 times as much, and your dinos doing 2-3x the DPS. Therizinos are good because they can last longer than rexes. Too many variables affect consistent DPS (whistle, positioning, lag), so you want to focus on endurance, hence Therizinos. My bad this is your rhealm send him some.good spawn codea and such get him setup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palenor Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 22 hours ago, Kayin said: 19 Therizinos: 68 armor MC saddle 15k health 500% melee full stack of 5 cakes on each. 3 riders. We keep failing. What keeps happening is that 2 people get fireballed immediately leaving 1 rider, but even with all Theriz's on attack target they can't take it down. This is the Gamma dragon. I'm seeing people on officials taking it down with much less. We've tried to take a Yut but it gets focused almost immediately and dies quickly everytime. I'm wondering if it'd just be better to have a 20th theriz? Even still, how can I possibly take down a Beta or Alpha? I'm running the west water cave religiously and haven't found a better saddle in months. I play on an unofficial with vanilla settings so please don't tell me to trade. The ONLY thing you need to change to win is, give your Therizinos more Vegi Cakes. Give them 15 Each and you will win. 15K health is just fine, same with your saddles, they actually do next to nothing for you (Dragon Fight only), could do it on Primitive saddles. 500% melee will kill Gamma in about 10 minutes. Do not put all 19 Therizino's on the dragon at the same time, he does not like being pinned and will get skittish and fly away lots. Cycle your groups to 10 in each group and whistle them in and out as needed till they heal. Bring your riders in with FLAK Armor (Highest Durability you can get), extra sets are good to have if items break from fireballs. Medical Brews are a must to use if you get hit, drink 3 or 4 right away. Most important of all for strategy is, DO NOT go to him, wait for him to come to you. Stay to the left side of the ruins near the spawn in point and do not fight him on the rocks next to the ruins. NEVER Cross the lava. As for Yuti, we were just given the secret to this, Pre-roar your Yuti to full effect and stop roaring just as the OB fires off to enter the arena. After you are in the arena, wait until the Dragon engages the Therizino's before you start roaring again. When he takes off for the flyer phase, stop roaring until he lands again. You will win next time for sure. Same set up will get you through Bata and Alpha - might want to level them up some more in Melee (Grinders). Just more Vegicakes for each, for Alpha we go in with 30-40 on each. They don't use them all in the 12-15 minutes our fights run, but if a fight gets drawn out you want them for the extended heals you will need for a 25+ minute battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toqs Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Add more cakes. I use 8 on alpha and the theriz come out of the fight missing maybe 500 health. I use 15k theriz and 600 melee I also use 100+ saddles though. Health doesn't matter against the burn ability. Better saddles will reduce the regular dragon attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfSlabBacon Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Gotta agree with what said so far. 21k health Theri's with plenty of veggies cakes. Ride the Yuty, and bring a Hell Pig. You can do Alpha like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palenor Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 21 hours ago, Olivar said: Cakes heal for 10% with a maximum of 2100 health until Wildcard decides to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivar Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Palenor said: Cakes kick in when Dino is at 85% of its max health, they heal for 2500 HP. So a 15K Health dino will eat a cake at 12,750 Health and heal itself back to full health, with an additional 250 HP to account for any additional damage taken from birds/bites etc during the 30 seconds of heal timer reset. A 20K Health dino will eat a cake at 17,000 Health and only heal itself back to 19,500 Health. Optimal Health is right at 16K health, eats first cake at 13,600 Health and over heals for an additional 100 Health. I'm not sure that's how they work. Wiki still lists them as healing 10%, with a cap of 2100 health. Meaning, your dinosaur with 15000 health, eats at 12750 health, and heals for only 1500, bringing hom back to 14250 health only, and that over a period of 30 seconds. A dinosaur with 21000 health, will eat at 17850 health and heal for 2100, bringing it back to 19950 health. The problem lies in the 30 seconds cooldown, on which your 15000 health dinosaurs is going to be pushed to death faster then the 21000 one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palenor Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Just now, Olivar said: I'm not sure that's how they work. Wiki still lists them as healing 10%, with a cap of 2100 health. Meaning, your dinosaur with 15000 health, eats at 12750 health, and heals for only 1500, bringing hom back to 14250 health only, and that over a period of 30 seconds. A dinosaur with 21000 health, will eat at 17850 health and heal for 2100, bringing it back to 19950 health. The problem lies in the 30 seconds cooldown, on which your 15000 health dinosaurs is going to be pushed to death faster then the 21000 one. You are correct, I have been using the Veggie cakes for a while and did not know they had nerfed them back to 2100 Health. We based all our tactics on the old 2500 Health. Having said that, they all still work. Doing Brood with Megatheriums with 15K health and Dragon with Theri's at 16K Health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivar Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Oh for sure It can definitely be done on those health levels once you're experienced at the fights and move about properly. Which is probably what @Kayin is still learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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