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Imprint Changes - IN GAME NOW


Palenor

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On 12/13/2017 at 8:30 PM, Palenor said:

Imprint times (percentage increase) have nothing to do with Maturation (growth) rates.

it has everything to do with it. Imprint times (percentage increase) is based off dino's time to fully mature, when you increase maturation speed - dinos get more% per imprint unless you proportionally reduce imprint interval as well.

@Jatheish @TheRightHand

Why not base amount of imprints to 100% on the rounded down value of (maturation time/max imprint timer) instead of rounded up? That way players will be guaranteed 100% imprint if they have never missed one during the maturation and will have some buffer time (unless maturation time is exactly a multiple of imprint timer). That will also remove the pain in the arse with setting maturation and cuddle multipliers in config since every setting will be good (unless resulting imprint timer gets to be greater than maturation time). In relation to current system this one effectively reduces amount of imprints needed by 1.

Lets take Ptera example apart:

Under current system ptera takes 37/8 or 4.625 imprints. Since imprints have to be integer, the real amount is 5 which creates a situation where it is impossible to 100%.

With suggested system that ptera will require floor(37/8) = 4 imprints exactly that will require 32 hours with 5 hour of buffer time. To avoid weird rounding that might prevent 100%, add some insignificant amount to each imprint, like 0.1% or 0.01%.

So the end formula should be: %per_imprint = 100/floor(maturation_time/imprint_timer) + 0.1.

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16 minutes ago, dslick said:

The only dino worth imprinting to 100% is a Giga. a 15% difference in imprinting on any other dino is measles. The only thing affecting you is your OCD.

Imprinted dinos perform way better during boss battles and its faster to imprint a batch of rexes/theris than to raise a batch with enough mutations making up for imprint.

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12 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

Imprinted dinos perform way better during boss battles and its faster to imprint a batch of rexes/theris than to raise a batch with enough mutations making up for imprint.

Sorry, edited my post so that it is more clear. Imprinting bonus is essential agreed. But the difference between an 85% and 100% imprinted dino is not noticeable in application.

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10 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

it has everything to do with it.

Sorry, they are separate mechanics. Maturation is a set time, depending on the X bonus going on.

Imprint % is split based on the maturation time, but also has other factors included in the formula, there are several, forget them all, but one of them is a grace period between imprint times. If you want to know them all, go look at the setting under single player set-up and it describes them all.

So Imprints % are separate from maturation %. Just the luck of the draw on the random times for imprint timer for next imprint.

Ever raise a Megatherium?

Nothing with the new system has really changed things much form the way it has been.

Anky's, Pteronadon, Turtles etc, have always been rough to get on X2 events, again luck of the draw., and from what everyone seems to always tout on these forums, almost all breeding occurs on the weekends where x2 occur.

The only way to increase your chances of getting 100% imprints on Anky's, Pteronadon, Turtles, etc (all quick breed dino's) is to do them on regular X1 rates.

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39 minutes ago, Palenor said:

Sorry, they are separate mechanics. Maturation is a set time, depending on the X bonus going on.

Imprint % is split based on the maturation time, but also has other factors included in the formula, there are several, forget them all, but one of them is a grace period between imprint times. If you want to know them all, go look at the setting under single player set-up and it describes them all.

So Imprints % are separate from maturation %. Just the luck of the draw on the random times for imprint timer for next imprint.

Ever raise a Megatherium?

Nothing with the new system has really changed things much form the way it has been.

Anky's, Pteronadon, Turtles etc, have always been rough to get on X2 events, again luck of the draw., and from what everyone seems to always tout on these forums, almost all breeding occurs on the weekends where x2 occur.

The only way to increase your chances of getting 100% imprints on Anky's, Pteronadon, Turtles, etc (all quick breed dino's) is to do them on regular X1 rates.

Shhh, we don't talk about megatherium imprint

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3 minutes ago, Palenor said:

Imprint % is split based on the maturation time, but also has other factors included in the formula, there are several, forget them all, but one of them is a grace period between imprint times. If you want to know them all, go look at the setting under single player set-up and it describes them all.

Grace time and imprint deterioration has been disabled for quite some time already on official servers iirc because you essentially ended up with 0% imprinted dino if you either missed an imprint or didnt have kibble it wants. It was a bad mechanic that needlessly punished players.

8 minutes ago, Palenor said:

So Imprints % are separate from maturation %

This is true, but i've never said "maturation%", and you agreed with me about maturation time/rates. Anyway if your imprint% is greater than maturation% right after imprint - it is a good indication that you might get 100%.

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7 hours ago, Palenor said:

Imprint times (percentage increase) have nothing to do with Maturation (growth) rates.

Also, one might be at 3% but the next 2 imprints could be 2% increase, rounding issue.

Imprint percentages have always been based on maturation rates. 100/x% imprint * 4 gives you an idea of how long growth is. Obviously not a perfect number, but close as the timer varies. 

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11 hours ago, edskelly said:

The only good imprinted dino is a 100% one and unless they have changed many dinos raising times many are impossible now.Like i said previously i have already got a work around on my unofficial cluster so im not salty but people on official should be.

It only has been 2 days..........

As i said, they may fix it soon.

12 hours ago, Paroxyde said:

What about dedicated people who always wake up at ungodly hours to imprint?

Now they can wake up at godly hours to imprint? I fail to see the downside except for the buffer time which as i said, i'm sure they'll fix.

Give it some time lol. It has just been 2 days, more or less.

 

I used to breed around 30 rexes every week, they end up with imprints 95-100, all of them but the sleep deprivation was starting to affect me big time, so i had to stop.

Now i don't have to.

 

 

I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY wish you guys would stop complaining about this, this is one of the rare GOOD updates wildcard releases.

 

 

and honestly, even if wildcard did it on purpose, i guess they wanted 100% imprint to  be super hard but atleast it won't cause us sleep deprivation.

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I and everyone on the unofficial server I'm playing on are not amused.

This change might make it easier in a way for everyone who's got no life and/or the masochism to play on an official server but even on those ... - let's just sum up the worst problem with the change:

You can't fully imprint every dino anymore!

What about dinos that needed an uneven number of imprints? Right, now they grow up before the timer for the very last imprint can even run out. What about dinos with short raising times? The configs on the server I'm playing on were perfectly balanced (it took one of the admin a week of testing to get them just right!) to get every dino to 100%, sometimes you needed to be lucky with the intervals but that was okay. Now you can't even imprint a baby Dimorphodon a single time because they mature before the timer for the first imprint runs out!

So, what can we do about it? Make the raising times longer? NOPE, everyone on the server has a life and not the time to spend days raising dinos, that's why we don't play on an official server. Spend another week tweaking the configs just right, which also means making it way easier for dinos with a previously uneven amount of imprints to get to 100%? Now this makes stuff too easy.

It basically means: Instead of creating an easy config option, let's just make some decision that might look good at the first glance but makes stuff worse if you take a couple of minutes to actually look at it. In the end especially unofficial servers got f***ed over once again!

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3 hours ago, TracerBee said:

It only has been 2 days..........

As i said, they may fix it soon.

Now they can wake up at godly hours to imprint? I fail to see the downside except for the buffer time which as i said, i'm sure they'll fix.

Give it some time lol. It has just been 2 days, more or less.

 

I used to breed around 30 rexes every week, they end up with imprints 95-100, all of them but the sleep deprivation was starting to affect me big time, so i had to stop.

Now i don't have to.

 

 

I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY wish you guys would stop complaining about this, this is one of the rare GOOD updates wildcard releases.

 

 

and honestly, even if wildcard did it on purpose, i guess they wanted 100% imprint to  be super hard but atleast it won't cause us sleep deprivation.

People need to speak up about this because right now it's a mixed bag that leans heavily towards not being good. If they do the changes necessary to fix it then I'll say it's not just good, but great. 

Some dinos cannot be 100% imprinted anymore, and for the ones that can be you have to get every imprint within seconds or suffer big penalties. Got disconnected or lagged out? Now you've missed what would have been 2 imprints on the old system. It makes no positive difference that imprints are 8hrs apart now if you could get better imprints the old way while still skipping ones to sleep at night.

On the plus side, at least less kibble is required for imprinting now.

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29 minutes ago, Ascendant said:

People need to speak up about this because right now it's a mixed bag that leans heavily towards not being good. If they do the changes necessary to fix it then I'll say it's not just good, but great. 

Some dinos cannot be 100% imprinted anymore, and for the ones that can be you have to get every imprint within seconds or suffer big penalties. Got disconnected or lagged out? Now you've missed what would have been 2 imprints on the old system. It makes no positive difference that imprints are 8hrs apart now if you could get better imprints the old way while still skipping ones to sleep at night.

On the plus side, at least less kibble is required for imprinting now.

Don't bring maths into this!

Most people here don't understand missing one overnight is not as bad as falling one short now.

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For those that think you can still get 100%, it will be impossible, even if you have a dino that fits within an 8hour increment for imprint. Maybe just maybe you might get 100% if you can have a dino fall 20minutes short of an 8 hour increment (due to rounding).

 

Those that think increasing the maturation or even decreasing will fix this issue, you're wrong sadly. Imprinting percentage is directly related to maturation time and imprint timer.

 

I honestly think this was an oversight and perhaps one of the staff can chime in and let us know if this was deliberate or not? @Jatheish @TheRightHand @Jen @Eli

 

But basically my understanding (and some of this could be slightly off) that imprinting is calculated using the following formula:

 

Imprint % = 100 / (TotalMaturationTime / MaximumImprintTime)

The reason this used to work was due to the setting they had enabled (forget the exact name right now) which allows for variance within times. This meant that if by some case you were super unlucky and got 4 hour imprints every time you would not get 100% regardless of how on time you were. As far as I'm aware ALL dinos full within a decimal based imprints required value.

 

Examples:

Therizinosaurus

TotalMaturationTime (in hours) = 115.7033333333333 hours

MaximumImprintTime (in hours) (new system) = 8

Imprint per cuddle = 100 / (115.7033333333333 / 8) = 6.914234680648788%

Something else you can calculate is "achievable" imprints

Using the folllowing: FLOOR(TotalMaturationTime / MaximumImprintTime)

For a Therizinosaurus this works out to be 14 imprints. Please also note this is unrealistic, as it assumes that you're there waiting for the seconds to count down and you only get a cuddle or you psychically know what kibble the dino wants ahead of time. So the math should look something like this instead:

FLOOR(TotalMaturationTime / (MaximumImprintTime + 0.08))

This still results in the 14 imprints, and it's also "best" case scenario in the case that it should only take you 5 minutes to imprint the dino. This is obviously still unlikely as we all know poop happens in ark and sometimes you might be 5 minutes late let alone the 10 minute walk the dino requests sometimes.

So some people are saying increase them into 8 hour increments for the maturation. I still say this won't work and you'll see below why.

Suggested new Therizino Maturation: 120hours 

Imprint per cuddle = 100 / (120 / 8 ) = 6.66666667%

Required Imprints = 15    - (120 / 8)

We can see if this is achievable using the above mentioned formula again:

FLOOR(TotalMaturationTime / MaximumImprintTime) =  FLOOR(120 / 8) = 15

This means yes it's possible, but it requires psychic abilities and never getting the request to walk.

That's why the formula that adds the 5 minutes should always apply when calculating if you can in the best circumstances obtain 100% imprint.

FLOOR(TotalMaturationTime / (MaximumImprintTime + 0.08)) = FLOOR(120 / 8.08) = 14

This says that it is not possible to get 100% even if the maturation was adjusted to 8 hour increments.

The only time I can see if this would be possible is dependant on how much to the decimal place WC calculates imprint percentage and how they do their rounding.

 

How can they fix this oversight? One of two ways. Allow variance in the imprint timer again or use the following formula in place of the old

Imprint per cuddle = 100 / (FLOOR(TotalMaturationTime / MaximumImprintTime))

This would look like the following for the Therizinosaurus

100 / (FLOOR(115.7033333333 / 8)) = 7.142857142857143%

Using the "is it possible?" formula again with the adjusted value we can work out whether it's possible again

FLOOR(115.7033333333 / (8 + 8.08)) = 14

14 x 7.142857142857143% = Exactly 100%

You can also calculate the amount of missed time that you can have with this dino with the following (if they used the adjusted imprint % formula)

TotalMaturationTime - (MaximumImprintTime * FLOOR(TotalMaturationTime / MaximumImprintTime)) = 3.7033333333333 hours

 

Finally I'd like to say to those that are going on about adjusting Maturation time, you can't do this at all, as this would require that they individually input the imprint value of all dinos which seems like a lot of overhead when you start adding up all the dinos in the game that can be bread. 

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Guest DJRone89

The devs said a while back that 100% imprinting shouldn’t be guaranteed. Now they have increased the timer, further enforcing that statement while making it more convenient for the player.

Also for the unofficial players, my earlier comment in the thread was made through frustration. Now because the 8 hour interval is hardcoded and doesn’t change, you can set your imprint timer exactly how you want. I have super boosted mature and now I’m able to set the timer to the exact minute - some dinos don’t get 100% but that’s how the game is intended.

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1 minute ago, DJRone89 said:

The devs said a while back that 100% imprinting shouldn’t be guaranteed. Now they have increased the timer, further enforcing that statement while making it more convenient for the player.

Also for the unofficial players, my earlier comment in the thread was made through frustration. Now because the 8 hour interval is hardcoded and doesn’t change, you can set your imprint timer exactly how you want. I have super boosted mature and now I’m able to set the timer to the exact minute - some dinos don’t get 100% but that’s how the game is intended.

Not guaranteed, but it's now impossible regardless...

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We all know the benefit of imprinting, we all know that when it's possible, getting it to 100% is a great performance boost on the Dino it applies to.
Not only does this add 20% to statistics (except oxygen and stamina) but it also applies a damage bonus and 30% resistance when the one who raised the Dino ride it.

In the pre-275 system, the interval between each requested action could be from 3 to 4 hours, today, apparently, it is 8 hours without fluctuations.
I wanted to do a test before doing this post, even if a simple calculation allows to realize that it is now impossible to arrive at 100% imprinting.
I started to hatch Tuesday evening a Pteranodon egg that I had already pre-hatched (there was only 1 minute before hatching).
When the baby Pteranodon is born, the game has indicated ("Pteranodon baby wants Vykan to take care of him in 7:59:59"), this is twice the maximum time that was previously allocated (between 3 and 4h). So I found myself in front of my PC at the appointed time and I realized the action requested, I was not late, I waited in front of the baby that the timer ends!
So, the next timer was also 7:59:59 and the other 3 ...
Either 5 intervals of 8h each imprinting actions to get a 100% boost.
The problem is that now in the last interval, the baby is at 85.6% maturation and displays "Bonus imprint: 86%", he asks for a delay of 7:59:59 for the next action and that of any Obviously he will be an adult before I can realize it?!?

To support my point, here are the times as well as the gains:
Baby born on 12/12/17 at 23:05:00, asks the imprint in 7:59:59; Imprinting bonus 22%, total 22%, maturation ~ 21.8%
Imprint does on 13/12/17 at 07:09:00, asks the imprint in 7:59:59; Imprinting bonus 22%, total 43%, maturation ~ 44%
Imprint done on 12/13/17 at 23:23:00, asks the imprint in 7:59:59; Imprinting bonus 22%, total 65%, maturation ~ 66%
Imprint does on 14/12/17 at 07:26:00, asks the imprint in 7:59:59; imprinting bonus 22%, total 86%, maturation 85.6%

 

How do I do to make the last imprint while obviously I do not have the 22% of maturation necessary to do it ???

According to the wiki, the time needed to bring the maturation of a Pteranodon to completion is 13h22m11s or 2222m (no real importance for the 11s).
The time required to complete the 5 imprinting actions (4x22% plus the balance to reach 100%) is 5 x 8h, or 2400m!
There is a deficit of 178m, almost 3h!


balance

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Guest DJRone89
7 minutes ago, edskelly said:

@Racidon   is there actually a variable on the timer?

I got nothing but 8 hour timers yesterday and was basically called a liar here for saying it's always 8 hours

No variable. Hardcoded. It’s because of the 8 hours flat that I can change the timer to the exact minute of my choosing on my unofficial.

I’m guessing the people that called you a liar hadn’t bothered to check themselves (this is the internet remember). I had confirmation by several people on my server that the imprint timers were all the same, coincidence?

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3 minutes ago, Vykan said:

We all know the benefit of imprinting, we all know that when it's possible, getting it to 100% is a great performance boost on the Dino it applies to.
Not only does this add 20% to statistics (except oxygen and stamina) but it also applies a damage bonus and 30% resistance when the one who raised the Dino ride it.

In the pre-275 system, the interval between each requested action could be from 3 to 4 hours, today, apparently, it is 8 hours without fluctuations.
I wanted to do a test before doing this post, even if a simple calculation allows to realize that it is now impossible to arrive at 100% imprinting.
I started to hatch Tuesday evening a Pteranodon egg that I had already pre-hatched (there was only 1 minute before hatching).
When the baby Pteranodon is born, the game has indicated ("Pteranodon baby wants Vykan to take care of him in 7:59:59"), this is twice the maximum time that was previously allocated (between 3 and 4h). So I found myself in front of my PC at the appointed time and I realized the action requested, I was not late, I waited in front of the baby that the timer ends!
So, the next timer was also 7:59:59 and the other 3 ...
Either 5 intervals of 8h each imprinting actions to get a 100% boost.
The problem is that now in the last interval, the baby is at 85.6% maturation and displays "Bonus imprint: 86%", he asks for a delay of 7:59:59 for the next action and that of any Obviously he will be an adult before I can realize it?!?

To support my point, here are the times as well as the gains:
Baby born on 12/12/17 at 23:05:00, asks the imprint in 7:59:59; Imprinting bonus 22%, total 22%, maturation ~ 21.8%
Imprint does on 13/12/17 at 07:09:00, asks the imprint in 7:59:59; Imprinting bonus 22%, total 43%, maturation ~ 44%
Imprint done on 12/13/17 at 23:23:00, asks the imprint in 7:59:59; Imprinting bonus 22%, total 65%, maturation ~ 66%
Imprint does on 14/12/17 at 07:26:00, asks the imprint in 7:59:59; imprinting bonus 22%, total 86%, maturation 85.6%

 

How do I do to make the last imprint while obviously I do not have the 22% of maturation necessary to do it ???

It's because as usual we got a half arse bandaid fix.

yes, imprint timers should be 8 hours... But not until a complete overhaul of every Dino to make 100% possible.

We are at full release now and things should be getting done properly

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5 minutes ago, DJRone89 said:

No variable. Hardcoded. It’s because of the 8 hours flat that I can change the timer to the exact minute of my choosing on my unofficial.

I’m guessing the people that called you a liar hadn’t bothered to check themselves (this is the internet remember). I had confirmation by several people on my server that the imprint timers were all the same, coincidence?

Thanks mate

@Lancelot

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12 hours ago, Palenor said:

The only way to increase your chances of getting 100% imprints on Anky's, Pteronadon, Turtles, etc (all quick breed dino's) is to do them on regular X1 rates.

But now, it's like x2 all the time for breeding, but only the between imprint !

And what will happen when breeding this dinos on event x2 or x3 ?

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5 hours ago, Nephtys said:

I and everyone on the unofficial server I'm playing on are not amused.

This change might make it easier in a way for everyone who's got no life and/or the masochism to play on an official server but even on those ... - let's just sum up the worst problem with the change:

You can't fully imprint every dino anymore!

What about dinos that needed an uneven number of imprints? Right, now they grow up before the timer for the very last imprint can even run out. What about dinos with short raising times? The configs on the server I'm playing on were perfectly balanced (it took one of the admin a week of testing to get them just right!) to get every dino to 100%, sometimes you needed to be lucky with the intervals but that was okay. Now you can't even imprint a baby Dimorphodon a single time because they mature before the timer for the first imprint runs out!

So, what can we do about it? Make the raising times longer? NOPE, everyone on the server has a life and not the time to spend days raising dinos, that's why we don't play on an official server. Spend another week tweaking the configs just right, which also means making it way easier for dinos with a previously uneven amount of imprints to get to 100%? Now this makes stuff too easy.

It basically means: Instead of creating an easy config option, let's just make some decision that might look good at the first glance but makes stuff worse if you take a couple of minutes to actually look at it. In the end especially unofficial servers got f***ed over once again!

I agree with you (although not as angrily :) ) but I think this is more of an issue with the server config options than with the change to the mechanic. I wish they would give us config options that didn't take weeks to test to get right. I mean, couldn't they just make the imprint % for each imprint take into account the config option so that you don't get the "impossible 100% imprint" cases for certain species? Not knowing the exact formula used, it still seems like quite an easy fix.

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