heavy turrets resource requirements and crafting

[Mjsechrest]

If this is the best you got then wildcard, you are indeed trolling people. I don't care if this was the 20th iteration of your heavy auto turret. 

These intentional numbers and figures such as the damage of 3.4x instead of actual 4x damage , the level 100 requirement , the insane repair cost of said auto turret, the lack of tracking/targeting , no real knockback , the health and damage taken by grenades/c4 far too low, and the actual cost to create these Is simply confirmation that:

A. You do listen to what the players have to say 

B. You don't care at all what we've said even though we play the game and you don't 

C. You like to grief low to mid tribes who can't reach level 100 in time to get their turrets fixed so in turn they'll be raided immediately

D. You have no idea how the game meta works in principal , even though you are the ones creating this game 

E. You blamed this whole fiasco on a new trend of ultra dense turrets which you claim brought the servers down to less than one tick rate even though this lag and other problems have existed for a very long time, yet you chose to do this now, long after early access. Turrets have always lagged servers (much like servers being at Dino cap)

F. You simply treat your playerbase with disdain and don't seem to mind when lots of their hard work goes right down the drain, and if you did you wouldn't be releasing dlc, you would fix your core game first. 

(I guess I'll stop here before I find myself going all the way through the alphabet)

[Ranger1]

Just a couple of points of clarification before the thread continues.

3 minutes ago, Mjsechrest said:

These intentional numbers and figures such as the damage of 3.4x instead of actual 4x damage ,

I believe the new Heavy Turrets do indeed to right at about 4X damage compared to standard turrets in the past.  I think you are forgetting that standard turrets are now about 20% more powerful than they used to be.

6 minutes ago, Mjsechrest said:

and the actual cost to create these Is simply confirmation that:

Perhaps I missed something, but I thought that the cost to create these 4X more powerful turrets was at (or a little less) than 4X that of a standard turret.

8 minutes ago, Mjsechrest said:

Turrets have always lagged servers

Which to my way of thinking means they needed to be address at some point in time regardless, and I think you'd have a hard time finding anyone to agree with you if you are trying to say that there has not be a large spike in the number of reports of extreme lag situations over the last few months.

[powerstuck]

On 30/11/2017 at 11:03 AM, 3GunKingdoms said:

the good thing about that turret is that you learn at level 100 jesus really that it has to be such a high level

 

Why not ? 

Before level 100 you should not be into heavy raiding anyway.

[Lurtz]

On 11/29/2017 at 11:30 PM, Zederia said:

it's finished, unless they decide to nerf it

Or change it entirely? WC has shown they're willing to mess with the code of the game to create smoother waters for all of us. It could be as easy as just upping the output damage on the turret. No big deal. 

[Lurtz]

On 12/1/2017 at 3:37 PM, powerstuck said:

Why not ? 

Before level 100 you should not be into heavy raiding anyway.

This is a DEFENSE against raiding. My level 10 beach bob has no say whether or not a wyvern rider comes to turn my day into a soggy potato. 

[LouSpowells]

23 minutes ago, Lurtz said:

This is a DEFENSE against raiding. My level 10 beach bob has no say whether or not a wyvern rider comes to turn my day into a soggy potato. 

The only thing your l10 beach Bob has any say over is whether or not his bowels are full when he dies. No matter how you slice it, lvl10 is not the time to be thinking about defending your base from a Wyvern rider...especially with auto-turrets...especially especially with heavy turrets...especially³ considering your lvl10 can't even make the tools required to gather the materials needed to build said turrets.

As for the folks in this thread talking about how WC doesn't listen, take a step back, look at the situation objectively, and ask yourself the following: "Am I really just mad because they didn't listen to me?"

A lot of input was taken from the community, something that is easily apparent to anyone who has been keeping track of this issue since ThzNtz' original posts on the topic. A lot of community input was taken into consideration, and it seems that trend will continue as turret balance continues to be tuned. That said, the implementation of Heavy Turrets (along with the new Auto Turret cap) is not something that will please everyone. There are simply too many people with too many different expectations/desires/pipe-dreams for how it should be handled.

If it were left up to me, I'd increase the cost...they seem a bit on the cheap side for any player or tribe that would have access to them.

 

[Dylan1602]

11 hours ago, LouSpowells said:

The only thing your l10 beach Bob has any say over is whether or not his bowels are full when he dies. No matter how you slice it, lvl10 is not the time to be thinking about defending your base from a Wyvern rider...especially with auto-turrets...especially especially with heavy turrets...especially³ considering your lvl10 can't even make the tools required to gather the materials needed to build said turrets.

I'll start this off by saying I am level 100 so this is not bias towards benefiting me in any way because I can access them anyway. 

 

I agree with you in this regarding a level 10 not needing to even be thinking about this yet; however I still believe level 100 is a bit much. You unlock the standard auto turret at level 68 which means you have to progress a further 32 levels which is 1,763,752 xp going by being level 68. Therefore to get the heavy turret from level 68 you would need to get 50.7x your current xp just to be able to defend your base with the next turret tier. Most people unlock Tek before they are level 100. 

I think at  the least it should be moved to late 80s, early 90s. Especially as it is an invaluable tool when protecting your base whilst you're offline, because at the minute offline raiding is far far too easy!

You can learn the minigun turret at level 95 which has a dps of 1500; however this is only available if you're online and we can all agree that 90% of raids happen when you're offline, just by chance or because the attackers are waiting till you're gone. As every attacker knows, if there are 1 or 2 of the defenders are online it makes the raid much harder than it has to be.

The heavy turret only has a dps of roughly 740-750 but is crucial in defending you when you're off and may just buy you enough time to get back online. Even if they did a straight swap with these two I think it would be better. In my tribe 3 of us are level 100, and we all agree it is a bit too high and judging by the general view of the community, they all agree as well.  

I have no issue with the price of the turret nor the amount of ammo consumed, as if it was 4 separate turrets instead of this 1 heavy. It would still be the same ammo consumption either way so I have no issues there.  

[Zederia]

On 12/1/2017 at 9:05 AM, Ranger1 said:

Just a couple of points of clarification before the thread continues.

I believe the new Heavy Turrets do indeed to right at about 4X damage compared to standard turrets in the past.  I think you are forgetting that standard turrets are now about 20% more powerful than they used to be.

 

no, there is no mention of the base turret getting ANY buff, which means it was unchanged. the heavy turrets should be doing more damage, not less. 

also:
- Heavy Turrets are currently designed to be about 4-5x as powerful as a normal turret.
- Tek Turret needs to remain top-dog turret.

 

Noting about Tek is top-dog unless you're in all primitive: the costs are insane and maintenance is stupid expensive too. Tek itself can be outdone in DPS by anything better than an apprentice AR, and you cn get a lot better defense out of even flak. This design choice of them being 4x as costly is just another case of wildcard not knowing what they're doing to the player-base because they don't even play this game that they created

[invincibleqc]

6 minutes ago, Zederia said:

no, there is no mention of the base turret getting ANY buff

 

They did mention it:

On 11/18/2017 at 1:29 AM, Jatheish said:

we will also be increasing the damage of autoturrets and TEK turrets by 20%

No idea if they did it in the end tho, but they did mention it.

[Zederia]

1 minute ago, invincibleqc said:

No idea if they did it in the end tho, but they did mention it.

1

They did not mention it in the patch notes, is what I meants

[DarthaNyan]

8 minutes ago, invincibleqc said:

They did mention it:

No idea if they did it in the end tho, but they did mention it.

If you quote a part about damage buff, then include part about 50% inventory slots increase as well...

That was only in initial announcement (in community crunch) and havent been mentioned ever since (its neither in "why" and "what" posts by TRH, nor in next announcement, nor in patchnotes). Which creates a strong feeling that initial idea was scrapped and they went with Heavy Turret instead.

[Sphere]

On 11/30/2017 at 6:54 PM, OttoGrunf said:

im a bit more disappointed than satisfied. being level 100 places it out of reach of most players who cant survive enough to reach level 100. and with heavy turrets they didnt addressed super speed demon characters with good armors (and both of that is easy to get for established players) using c4 to grief small and medium tribes. this is another alpha tribe only toy like most of the game already is

Sounds like Communism. Equal outcome instead of equal opportunity. Except Communism doesn't work in the real world.

[powerstuck]

On 03/12/2017 at 5:33 PM, Lurtz said:

This is a DEFENSE against raiding. My level 10 beach bob has no say whether or not a wyvern rider comes to turn my day into a soggy potato. 

Still Heavy Turret is the high end of defenses.

If you are level 80 or 90, use normal turrets and plants. You should not have anything THAT important to defend by that level. Anyway, it takes less than two weeks to reach 100 so it's not like its hard.

[GLADONOS]

7 hours ago, Sphere said:

Sounds like Communism. Equal outcome instead of equal opportunity. Except Communism doesn't work in the real world.

DILO does Communism have to do with anything?

And don't tell me you really honest to raptoring god think that Capitalism offers equal opportunity... Of coarse you do... -____- And i am sure you also probably believe that Communism is impossible without a government despite the fact that the central purpose of any government is the protection of property.

Nobody has ever suggested a system that offers "Equal outcome instead of equal opportunity" That is just a stupid straw-man.

The whole point of Communism is equal opportunity instead of opportunity based on Nepotism.

As for not working in the real world? The Soviet Union worked. Oh BUT! BUT! "They were oppressive and enslaved millions of people!" < Yea, the good ol USA NEVER would have done such a thing... 

https://www.google.com/search?q=slavery&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBqJf_vfPXAhXDm-AKHVgJBn0Q_AUICigB&biw=1229&bih=607#imgrc=LACbkTLT4cxljM:

[Joebl0w13]

3 minutes ago, GLADONOS said:

As for not working in the real world? The Soviet Union worked

1991 would like to have a talk with you.

[GLADONOS]

Just now, Joebl0w13 said:

1991 would like to have a talk with you.

What, you really think that the USA will last forever!? 

[Sphere]

43 minutes ago, GLADONOS said:

DILO does Communism have to do with anything?

And don't tell me you really honest to raptoring god think that Capitalism offers equal opportunity... Of coarse you do... -____- And i am sure you also probably believe that Communism is impossible without a government despite the fact that the central purpose of any government is the protection of property.

Nobody has ever suggested a system that offers "Equal outcome instead of equal opportunity" That is just a stupid straw-man.

The whole point of Communism is equal opportunity instead of opportunity based on Nepotism.

As for not working in the real world? The Soviet Union worked. Oh BUT! BUT! "They were oppressive and enslaved millions of people!" < Yea, the good ol USA NEVER would have done such a thing... 

https://www.google.com/search?q=slavery&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBqJf_vfPXAhXDm-AKHVgJBn0Q_AUICigB&biw=1229&bih=607#imgrc=LACbkTLT4cxljM:

The problem is the concept of equality, being in a world where equals is more of a utopia than an actual reality. Then you bring this into PvP. How does a new tribe hope to stand a chance against an alpha tribe that may want to destroy them? We are not even talking mega tribes here. Instead of working with the options you got, and then getting demolished at a chance, some people want the game to be like what Communism does. Where everybody ends up as useful slaves, banned, or quit. I wonder what a slave looks like in a game. I know Socialist Communism needs slavery to work. Because anything other than Communism, is a movement towards freedom of expression and self interests, which goes against the greater good; whatever that is.

If this world was really capable of equality, we wouldn't have groups like Feminism claiming there is none still. Although some of their actions actually point more towards Supremacy than actual equality, and not even for all women. This is more of a problem with radicalization than actual Feminism. But my point stands, and it stands the same in gaming. We are not equals. Look at your strengths, and weaknesses, work on it. Stop making up excuses and blaming somebody else.

[GLADONOS]

1 minute ago, Sphere said:

The problem is the concept of equality, being in a world where equals is more of a utopia than an actual reality. Then you bring this into PvP. How does a new tribe hope to stand a chance against an alpha tribe that may want to destroy them? We are not even talking mega tribes here. Instead of working with the options you got, and then getting demolished at a chance, some people want the game to be like what Communism does. Where everybody ends up as useful slaves, banned, or quit. I wonder what a slave looks like in a game. I know Socialist Communism needs slavery to work. Because anything other than this goes towards freedom of expression and self interests, which goes against the greater good.

If this world was really capable of equality, we wouldn't have groups like Feminism claiming there is none still. Although some of their actions actually point more towards Supremacy than actual equality, and not even for all women. This is more of a problem with radicalization than actual Feminism. But my point stands, and it stands the same in gaming. We are not equals. Look at your strengths, and weaknesses, work on it. Stop making up excuses and blaming somebody else.

Every society needs slaves because someone has to do the dirty poop. The ideal, would be to treat those slaves well(Which our society does not). And it really sounds like you just flat out deny that our society works upon Nepotism and is really just industrialized feudalism painted with a prettier face. The face of "Freedom".

 

There is no chance in ark PvP btw because it favors those with large numbers of people with massive free time. Such people will always win hence why i play unofficial PvP. I played official PvP for a while and we put allot of work in, befriended allot of alpha tribes and then a giant Chinese mega tribe came in and wiped the server. We all banded together, it was fun, but really, there was no raptoring way any one could hope to stop them.

[Sphere]

32 minutes ago, GLADONOS said:

Every society needs slaves because someone has to do the dirty poop. The ideal, would be to treat those slaves well(Which our society does not). And it really sounds like you just flat out deny that our society works upon Nepotism and is really just industrialized feudalism painted with a prettier face. The face of "Freedom".

 

There is no chance in ark PvP btw because it favors those with large numbers of people with massive free time. Such people will always win hence why i play unofficial PvP. I played official PvP for a while and we put allot of work in, befriended allot of alpha tribes and then a giant Chinese mega tribe came in and wiped the server. We all banded together, it was fun, but really, there was no raptoring way any one could hope to stop them.

That bottom bit, is why I am about to launch my own PvP cluster. I am however launching with the lower levels at 2x experience, and the higher levels at 1x. Helps to get the engrams out. Doubt this will help with the mega turrets. Any tribe could really use some, but starting out, eh, not really going to have any, or enough. But at least on unofficial PvP, it's less likely you'll get wiped.

I don't think society needs slaves. It however needs people to do certain types of work. They can choose to do the different types of work. The problem with Communism is, it does things like look at the wage gap and number of workers between male and female, and disregards personal choices, and pretends like we're equals on equal footing with no regard to personal choice, then pushes an agenda that is damaging to the industry by results. Not even considering one's own market value in that sentence. More people want to watch men's football because there is more action in the game. As a result, the contracts to men to play that sport, is higher, when the demand for more competent players is requested, to match the appetite of the sport. But if you apply affirmative action, and equal outcome, eh, you end up with something more like South Africa. Just look at South Africa and their affirmative action plans, their economy died as a result. This is why Communist ideas of the greater good is trash. Doing the same nonsense here will kill the game.

[Itsasheep]

On 29/11/2017 at 1:32 AM, OttoGrunf said:

if photo i attached is right, 1 heavy turrets cost less than 4 standard turrets. you need 270 electronics, 540 metal, 200 cement/achatina paste and 70 polimer for one heavy turret in total (1 standard + rest of materials) and for 4 auto turrets you need 280 electronics, 560 metal, 200 cement/achatina paste and 80 polimer.

so people will have hundreds of turrets to whom they invested time to grind and now are obsolete and useless because of 100 turrets limit. be smart and allow people to turn 4 autoturrets to 1 heave or create it from 1 autoturret and rest of materials. be smart, dont antagonize your player base more, just let them convert 4 auto turrets to 1 heavy turret and everybody will be satisfied. wildcard will have less turrets on servers. large players who have insane amount of turrets will be able to trade then for 1/4 of that number in heavy turrets and those who didnt had autoturrets over limit number will not be impacted with it

win - win situation

Maeby ark has taken a step in the right direction. 

 

In my opinion it might work better if something like this was in place

50 heavy turret 

80 normal turrets 

And 30 plant x 

In the same range the turrets are in now. Hasnt got to be them.numbera but you know what i mean