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Behave with grace and respect


Kaprosuchus

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I've been reading the forums alot lately and there is one reoccuring theme I have noticed and it's really starting to get on my nerves.  People often get hostile about their own opinions or downright trash the developers of this game and it's apalling to say the least.  The people who work on this game are humans and they most likely respond better to "this is what i don't like, this is why" than "you suck at this go die in a fire."

I see people on this forum regularly behaving and communicating with a lack of respect, as if wildcard didn't design a game most of them have already sunk thousands of hours into for a fairly low price of entry compared to how much it costs to eat at a fast food joint and hang with friends for a similiar amount of time.  When i first saw this game I read the description, nowhere did I see any indicator that i was buying an "online only" game, or that this game was simply a client for a developer maintained mmorpg-like experience.  What i purchased was a game in it's entirety that could be played offline or online without any further need for wildcard's assistance with the loose promise of early access that it would be improved on.  So far that is what i have gotten along with many options to remove or cancel out changes that i found terrible through ini settings or mods.

The official servers in my opinion were never promised to me or to anyone anywhere in their body of advertisements and they maintain them at cost so as to create a sense of community within their game and to execute their vision of what the game should be like.  They have taken feedback and shown interest in what you all have to say despite alot of the forum population being quite terrible and behaving in a manner that isn't warranted over a leisure activity.  I am not saying that you are not entitled to voice complaints, i am just saying, show some respect and keep in mind you are addressing people.  If at any point you feel a change in the game renders your work "a waste of your time" take a deep breath and remember that if you were enjoying yourself then it wasn't a waste.

Of course my opinion does not reflect any intimate knowledge of wildcard or their working, it's just common sense given what i've actually been told by the company or read others being told.  Learning to seperate what you've learned from what you assume is part of growing up.

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4 minutes ago, Kaprosuchus said:

I've been reading the forums alot lately and there is one reoccuring theme I have noticed and it's really starting to get on my nerves.  People often get hostile about their own opinions or downright trash the developers of this game and it's apalling to say the least.  The people who work on this game are humans and they most likely respond better to "this is what i don't like, this is why" than "you suck at this go die in a fire."

I see people on this forum regularly behaving and communicating with a lack of respect, as if wildcard didn't design a game most of them have already sunk thousands of hours into for a fairly low price of entry compared to how much it costs to eat at a fast food joint and hang with friends for a similiar amount of time.  When i first saw this game I read the description, nowhere did I see any indicator that i was buying an "online only" game, or that this game was simply a client for a developer maintained mmorpg-like experience.  What i purchased was a game in it's entirety that could be played offline or online without any further need for wildcard's assistance with the loose promise of early access that it would be improved on.  So far that is what i have gotten along with many options to remove or cancel out changes that i found terrible through ini settings or mods.

The official servers in my opinion were never promised to me or to anyone anywhere in their body of advertisements and they maintain them at cost so as to create a sense of community within their game and to execute their vision of what the game should be like.  They have taken feedback and shown interest in what you all have to say despite alot of the forum population being quite terrible and behaving in a manner that isn't warranted over a leisure activity.  I am not saying that you are not entitled to voice complaints, i am just saying, show some respect and keep in mind you are addressing people.  If at any point you feel a change in the game renders your work "a waste of your time" take a deep breath and remember that if you were enjoying yourself then it wasn't a waste.

Of course my opinion does not reflect any intimate knowledge of wildcard or their working, it's just common sense given what i've actually been told by the company or read others being told.  Learning to seperate what you've learned from what you assume is part of growing up.

Finally a person who agrees about this thank you.

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They have outright lied to their consumers. That is enough to receive a hostile response from the community. If you've read the forums enough then you have seen these lies. Why again should I settle? Change is beget through actions and words but when your calm words fall on deaf ears sometimes louder words are necessary. 

Yes they are humans and "you suck at this go die in a fire" is obviously over the line but "you suck at this", or "you are liars", or any number of other such complaints are well warranted. Here read this and take not that I followed proper protocol and you can see where it got me. 

Why am I not supposed to be upset at that? 

We were given access to an EA game at a discount this is true but that discount also directly funded the creation of the game. It means we are part of this game. We were promised a certain amount of optimization and support and then they pulled that support on now Legacy and said, "no we meant the new servers." So we abandoned our work (thousands of hours right?) on legacy for these new servers that were better and had full support and were going to continue to expand yet the support feels about the same, the optimizations have been very light, and now they want us to buy the new dlc before the base game they promised us is complete. 

Outrage is well deserved. If you are happy just taking what they place in front of you and calling it chicken á la king that is on you but I've had chicken á la king and this is chicken pot pie they are serving us. 

 

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''f at any point you feel a change in the game renders your work "a waste of your time" take a deep breath and remember that if you were enjoying yourself then it wasn't a waste.''

 

i personally never enjoy doing it, only having it finished. Then a patch comes and bam your end result has to be reworked for 1 month of mooving turrets etc.

 

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9 minutes ago, yekrucifixion187 said:

They have outright lied to their consumers. That is enough to receive a hostile response from the community. If you've read the forums enough then you have seen these lies. Why again should I settle? Change is beget through actions and words but when your calm words fall on deaf ears sometimes louder words are necessary. 

Yes they are humans and "you suck at this go die in a fire" is obviously over the line but "you suck at this", or "you are liars", or any number of other such complaints are well warranted. Here read this and take not that I followed proper protocol and you can see where it got me. 

Why am I not supposed to be upset at that? 

We were given access to an EA game at a discount this is true but that discount also directly funded the creation of the game. It means we are part of this game. We were promised a certain amount of optimization and support and then they pulled that support on now Legacy and said, "no we meant the new servers." So we abandoned our work (thousands of hours right?) on legacy for these new servers that were better and had full support and were going to continue to expand yet the support feels about the same, the optimizations have been very light, and now they want us to buy the new dlc before the base game they promised us is complete. 

Outrage is well deserved. If you are happy just taking what they place in front of you and calling it chicken á la king that is on you but I've had chicken á la king and this is chicken pot pie they are serving us. 

 

Well they haven't started banning people over criticism that i am aware of, could be wrong am not omniscient.  But I personally have never had someone respond in the way i desire by being mean unless i had a show of force to back it up and even that created a limited response to my desires.  If you've ever gotten someone to acquiesce when you have gotten hostile with them but had no way of actually forcing the issue then you are much better at bluffing than I and i would probably lose alot of money to you at poker

14 minutes ago, ilidrael said:

''f at any point you feel a change in the game renders your work "a waste of your time" take a deep breath and remember that if you were enjoying yourself then it wasn't a waste.''

 

i personally never enjoy doing it, only having it finished. Then a patch comes and bam your end result has to be reworked for 1 month of mooving turrets etc.

 

aww man that totally sucks.  I don't really have alot of time to do stuff i dislike and am not getting paid for.  I hope things go your way in the future, keep at it my friend hopefully these new mega turrets will make things a little easier upkeep wise.  I personally hated grinding mats for millions of bullets every other day.

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Yes the devs have done alot that I have disagreed with and wish that they had done with differently or handled differently. But as OP says its no reason to lose the rag and stop being civil. If something happens you disagree with you can still voice your disagreement and do it with civility.

+1 for OP

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2 years of lag, rollbacks, duping, “fixes” that break more than they fix, unfinished maps (ragnarok) continue to sit idle while new DLC is announced, poor optimization, lies, deceit, missed deadlines, continued missed “new” deadlines, zero communication about critical issues, PVE server caps 2 months after “official release”, not enough servers opened, PVP turret rework, not enough PVP servers opened, etc etc etc.

Consumers have the right to complain, and at some point, they’ll become outraged from the lack of support. Mostly because they love this damn game, but can’t stand what appears to be pure ineptness about fixing and moving forward. A little open communication goes a long way to diffuse situations. The onus isn’t on us as consumers. It’s purely on the owner of the content that we purchased. 

I hope aberration comes sooner than later so that some of the PVE folks leave ragnarok and we can get under this blasted server tame cap. But see above if you believe the 12th of December will be a timeline they actually hit. 

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The devs are full grown adults who are more than equipped to read between the lines with the hate on the forums- given that they now have years worth of exprience dealing with it. They know that the hate displayed towards them is a result of passion in many cases. They also know when people are just trolling or just being nasty because they had a bad day.  They aren't stupid. The moderators are on board as well. 

Often people that bash them and others who digress with their opinions are justifiably in many cases just really pissed off due to an in game bug or a changing mechanic that affects or already affected them directly. If anything, their anger shows how upset they are and I'd rather the devs see that so they know the extent/result of said bug/change/mechanic/etc., or whatever it is they are upset about. 

This forums is tightly managed and the modderators do half of a good job here. Other forums I mettle in are REALLY bad in comparison to this one. 

Let the angry ones express themselves however they want. Your job, my job, and WC's job is to read between the lines to see the bigger picture, which in many cases is what I described above. This isn't a theological forum, it's a game forum. People who are pissed off are usually entitled to be pissed, especially with the remaining game breaking mechanics/issues that still are in effect. 

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21 minutes ago, flamron said:

2 years of lag, rollbacks, duping, “fixes” that break more than they fix, unfinished maps (ragnarok) continue to sit idle while new DLC is announced, poor optimization, lies, deceit, missed deadlines, continued missed “new” deadlines, zero communication about critical issues, PVE server caps 2 months after “official release”, not enough servers opened, PVP turret rework, not enough PVP servers opened, etc etc etc.

Consumers have the right to complain, and at some point, they’ll become outraged from the lack of support. Mostly because they love this damn game, but can’t stand what appears to be pure ineptness about fixing and moving forward. A little open communication goes a long way to diffuse situations. The onus isn’t on us as consumers. It’s purely on the owner of the content that we purchased. 

I hope aberration comes sooner than later so that some of the PVE folks leave ragnarok and we can get under this blasted server tame cap. But see above if you believe the 12th of December will be a timeline they actually hit. 

This x10. Add another x5. Add another x2. This all the way ^

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Doctor!! Your cure for mild indigestion that I paid for actually causes rabies and has a 79% chance of instant death!!! But, y'know... It's ok, I gracefully respect the mistakes you made... I'm sure I'll adjust to the constant foaming of the mouth and fear of inevitable death at some point. Hohum!

If you didn't buy this game during EA then you spent a butt-ton of money.
Money makes people do the whacky, especially when they feel ripped off, and that feeling is fully understandable.
You've got developers that only communicate about problems under duress, who don't seem to be fixing the main issues with the game and insist on releasing PAID FOR dlc in spite of these issues.

Then you have the audacity to tell people not to be frustrated?
Go unicorn yourself!

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3 hours ago, Kaprosuchus said:

I've been reading the forums alot lately and there is one reoccuring theme I have noticed and it's really starting to get on my nerves.  People often get hostile about their own opinions or downright trash the developers of this game and it's apalling to say the least.  The people who work on this game are humans and they most likely respond better to "this is what i don't like, this is why" than "you suck at this go die in a fire."

I see people on this forum regularly behaving and communicating with a lack of respect, as if wildcard didn't design a game most of them have already sunk thousands of hours into for a fairly low price of entry compared to how much it costs to eat at a fast food joint and hang with friends for a similiar amount of time.  When i first saw this game I read the description, nowhere did I see any indicator that i was buying an "online only" game, or that this game was simply a client for a developer maintained mmorpg-like experience.  What i purchased was a game in it's entirety that could be played offline or online without any further need for wildcard's assistance with the loose promise of early access that it would be improved on.  So far that is what i have gotten along with many options to remove or cancel out changes that i found terrible through ini settings or mods.

The official servers in my opinion were never promised to me or to anyone anywhere in their body of advertisements and they maintain them at cost so as to create a sense of community within their game and to execute their vision of what the game should be like.  They have taken feedback and shown interest in what you all have to say despite alot of the forum population being quite terrible and behaving in a manner that isn't warranted over a leisure activity.  I am not saying that you are not entitled to voice complaints, i am just saying, show some respect and keep in mind you are addressing people.  If at any point you feel a change in the game renders your work "a waste of your time" take a deep breath and remember that if you were enjoying yourself then it wasn't a waste.

Of course my opinion does not reflect any intimate knowledge of wildcard or their working, it's just common sense given what i've actually been told by the company or read others being told.  Learning to seperate what you've learned from what you assume is part of growing up.

I agree with your points mostly, but welcome to the internet :).

While I can't objectively prove this is true, well thought out raging may be an effective way of communicating displeasure. No way anyone at WC is reading through all these posts for feedback, but I do think they pay attention. The recent announcement of the turret nerf and the follow up response is a decent example. I don't think they went through all of those threads, but I do think they noticed that people were really upset.

Overall, I agree though; in most situations it's far better to be respectful instead of outright toxic. It's also ridiculous when people spit venom without even paying attention to most of the information on the topic. If you're going to rage, at least be accurate.

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What the OP fails to mention ofcourse is that there are certain fanboys on here that are just as hostile and immature as any 'whiner' on here and if people didn't complain about other people complaining half the complaints would be gone right there. Like it or not we all paid for the game and when a product stops being what the customer likes they are going to voice their dissatisfaction as is their right to do.

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5 hours ago, Kaprosuchus said:

I've been reading the forums alot lately and there is one reoccuring theme I have noticed and it's really starting to get on my nerves.  People often get hostile about their own opinions or downright trash the developers of this game and it's apalling to say the least.  The people who work on this game are humans and they most likely respond better to "this is what i don't like, this is why" than "you suck at this go die in a fire."

I see people on this forum regularly behaving and communicating with a lack of respect, as if wildcard didn't design a game most of them have already sunk thousands of hours into for a fairly low price of entry compared to how much it costs to eat at a fast food joint and hang with friends for a similiar amount of time.  When i first saw this game I read the description, nowhere did I see any indicator that i was buying an "online only" game, or that this game was simply a client for a developer maintained mmorpg-like experience.  What i purchased was a game in it's entirety that could be played offline or online without any further need for wildcard's assistance with the loose promise of early access that it would be improved on.  So far that is what i have gotten along with many options to remove or cancel out changes that i found terrible through ini settings or mods.

The official servers in my opinion were never promised to me or to anyone anywhere in their body of advertisements and they maintain them at cost so as to create a sense of community within their game and to execute their vision of what the game should be like.  They have taken feedback and shown interest in what you all have to say despite alot of the forum population being quite terrible and behaving in a manner that isn't warranted over a leisure activity.  I am not saying that you are not entitled to voice complaints, i am just saying, show some respect and keep in mind you are addressing people.  If at any point you feel a change in the game renders your work "a waste of your time" take a deep breath and remember that if you were enjoying yourself then it wasn't a waste.

Of course my opinion does not reflect any intimate knowledge of wildcard or their working, it's just common sense given what i've actually been told by the company or read others being told.  Learning to seperate what you've learned from what you assume is part of growing up.

What!, you mean to say that human beings have emotion, even if they make money?!?! Get out of here with your wild claims!

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1 hour ago, ChargingParacerParacer said:

What the OP fails to mention ofcourse is that there are certain fanboys on here that are just as hostile and immature as any 'whiner' on here and if people didn't complain about other people complaining half the complaints would be gone right there. Like it or not we all paid for the game and when a product stops being what the customer likes they are going to voice their dissatisfaction as is their right to do.

I don't know. Comparatively speaking, I've seen way more of what the OP has mentioned than people complaining about complaints.That might just be my experience, though. 

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2 hours ago, Supasuno said:

Doctor!! Your cure for mild indigestion that I paid for actually causes rabies and has a 79% chance of instant death!!! But, y'know... It's ok, I gracefully respect the mistakes you made... I'm sure I'll adjust to the constant foaming of the mouth and fear of inevitable death at some point. Hohum!

Ark's flaws aren't deadly, so I thought that analogy was a little ridiculous/over the top, but I get what you're going for here. 

Hey, I've been frustrated with Ark as well, but showing maturity and proper structure in your complaints will communicate better with the devs than lots of those incoherent "mY D1n0s are Daed" posts (not saying this is what YOU"VE done, just pointing out that this happens a lot). 

And with Ark's bugs, I'm with you! (although I play SP, so it seems you may be subject to more than I), some of them are frustrating, and this should be communicated. 

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12 minutes ago, Shrekasaurus said:

I don't know. Comparatively speaking, I've seen way more of what the OP has mentioned than people complaining about complaints.That might just be my experience, though. 

As far as I've seen it's pretty much equal. My first few complaints on here were calm and well thought out but I still got told quit whining my the fanboys that can't handle reading opinions they don't agree with yet not smart enough/mature enough to just not click on an obviously negative thread. The devs themselves still haven't bothered after several months to fix what I dislike anyways so I'm not going to bother writing nice calm paragraphs that just get ignored and pooped on anyways.

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i can deal with the messed up game its the customer support that gets me

"i've passed on your info to the investigating team (so why am i talking to you and not them?) but we won't tell you what we're gonna do about your problem or when we're gonna do it or if we're gonna do anything at all, and no we're not gonna compensate you for waiting patiently while we "might" resolve your issue but remember you're not allowed to do anything about it yourself.

and as a finale insult to injury we're gonna mark your ticket as solved even though we've done nothing to help you"

 

kinda makes you want to swear at people, and yes i get they are busy but when 90% of a server complain about one tribe......

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I appreciate all of your feedback and you are completely justified to your emotions.  What i am suggesting is that you may get better results being civil than being hostile.  Some of you may even feel that you have no choice but to be hostile and that's an acceptable feeling to.  I myself have been frustrated many times and have a laundry lists of complaints about this game.  What i offer is a little empathy when dealing with them is all. I am sure all of you at one point have worked in an industry where you were treated poorly by consumers and while you learn to "read between the lines" or deal with people's frustration, it definately creates more stress for you and makes you less in the mood to remedy the person's problems.  The people that work on this game are also human and may be subject to the same emotions that the rest of us are.  Customer service and dealing with hostile people with grace is a highly specialized skill many people work their whole lives to develop.  Programming and game development is also a highly specialized skill and the people you talk with or deal with may or may not have both skill sets. there are only so many engram points after all.

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2 hours ago, cattafett said:

i can deal with the messed up game its the customer support that gets me

"i've passed on your info to the investigating team (so why am i talking to you and not them?) but we won't tell you what we're gonna do about your problem or when we're gonna do it or if we're gonna do anything at all, and no we're not gonna compensate you for waiting patiently while we "might" resolve your issue but remember you're not allowed to do anything about it yourself.

and as a finale insult to injury we're gonna mark your ticket as solved even though we've done nothing to help you"

 

kinda makes you want to swear at people, and yes i get they are busy but when 90% of a server complain about one tribe......

TBH, this is the exact reason I don't fully agree with OP. It's one thing to do an unpopular nerf or not focus on a particular issue, as really that's WC prerogative, it's another to have a poor (massively overworked with strange policies) customer support system. That's where a lot of my sympathy goes at the window, because as a company if you don't engage well with your customers you reap what you sow. I understand costs, and that they're doing this without charging a monthly membership fee, but those are also based on decisions that they made - I'm not even saying those are objectively the wrong decisions (they are in my opinion, not that I have all info) but can't really fault upset customers.

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Part of it is the devs wanting the players bases opinion. If they ask for peoples input most of it is going to be negative. Whiners and nonstop complaining. If someone is happy with the game they arent going to take the time to write some kind of gratitude post, they are prob busy enjoying the game. Its only the people unhappy with things that post posts.

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What was the point of our involvement in the manufacture of this product if the problems we pointed out during the manufacturing process carry over into the finished goods? If this were a factory piece for an automobile someone would be losing their job over the number of long standing issues that have been pointed out but not yet dealt with. But because it's just a video game and the industry 'always' does things this way, we should just shut up and be grateful. I suppose we should be grateful the brakes in our cars work most of the time too, right? And if they don't we ought to just accept that as well. (granted no one has died playing video games unless those internet rumors are true, but the point is still the same. Faulty is faulty.) I won't accept this is a gold seal worthy product when it still has rust stains on it. It's not like they haven't been made aware of the issues. Maybe if they TOLD us why those issues are not fixed yet, or cannot be fixed. But the lack of explanation for that either way is very telling. In a factory, people find out why it's broken and then correct the problem, even if it means changing the entire process.

I suppose 'good enough' is the new standard for production in the U.S. But we still are expected to pay top dollar. And this use of hours to somehow justify ignoring valid complaints is the biggest red herring I've ever heard. As are the references to the cost, when they have NO physical medium whatsoever to produce. What is really interesting is that it takes only 2 hours to negate a refund request, but it can take far longer to run into some of the longest standing bugs in the game. But I guess that's the whole point, right?

It's not that the devs may not know how to fix the issues, I think it's just a work ethics problem and a refusal to actually push one. Sometimes you have to fire someone to get the message across that you want results, not excuses. This isn't grade school anymore. But that also means the people pulling the puppet strings have a decent work ethic of their own. You can always tell from the product how hard people did or did not work. It shows.

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Guest DJRone89
8 hours ago, LittleRedReaper said:

These posts are just as garbage as the ones trashing the devs. People can feel what they feel either way. This forum is full of fanboys and cynics alike. This is a product ladies and gentlemen. I like watching my tv, it's pretty awesome, but if it keeps having a bug where when I am in the middle of binge watching stranger things it shuts off, well you are damned right I am going to be pissed. NOW let's put this into perspective.... my tv maker then tells me there is a fix.. .lies about it.. delays the fix... tries to get to me to buy an upgrade to my already broken product... has company staff with conflicting statements...(I literally could go on)---- No one is forcing anyone to play this game... but that's the rub, this is a great freaking game and we WANT to play it. We also don't want lying, conflict, money grabbing opportunities (I am all for businesses making money, but not like WC has done), staff that has no idea what other staff is doing and saying, and everything that has soured a beautiful game into a joke. I love this game. I am going to keep playing despite the mess it has become, but new customers are not going to be so forgiving.

Even the moderators need to rethink the way they go about spreading info because I’ve had two instances by the same mod giving out false info because they didn’t fully understand it themselves. What good is admitting you’ve made a mistake after the fact, when you could have just said you don’t know and relayed the question back to the devs.

But back to the devs, I find it very difficult sourcing information for Xbox, especially on upcoming patches. I shouldn’t have to check each devs twitter page for details on certification.

What annoys me most are miscommunication between the staff, and misleading statements. Many people will chalk up being mislead for outright lies however having worked in customer service I’d say it’s more of the case of withholding the truth, while telling you what you want to hear. That way, the onus is on you to perceive it as a lie or not.

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