Griffin Balance

[Olivar]

Just because I can:

I don't really like the Gryphon that much to be honest.
Everyone in our tribe has his own gryphon. My girlfriend has plume, I have feather, and we have muffin for our third tribe member.
While they use their gryphons quite a lot to fly around the map, kill things and move stuff around, I keep falling back to either my Quetzal "Rescue-Chopper" for the heavy lifting, or my Poison Wyvern "Toothless" for the slaying of beasts.

I like how gryphons move, but I'm not a fan of the dive-bombing.
It feels to cluncky for me to pull off reliably.

[Carcajou]

2 minutes ago, Olivar said:

Just because I can:

I don't really like the Gryphon that much to be honest.
Everyone in our tribe has his own gryphon. My girlfriend has plume, I have feather, and we have muffin for our third tribe member.
While they use their gryphons quite a lot to fly around the map, kill things and move stuff around, I keep falling back to either my Quetzal "Rescue-Chopper" for the heavy lifting, or my Poison Wyvern "Toothless" for the slaying of beasts.

I like how gryphons move, but I'm not a fan of the dive-bombing.
It feels to cluncky for me to pull off reliably.

can i get the full story + secret gameplay. 

 

[Olivar]

what story and secret gameplay?

[Carcajou]

1 minute ago, Olivar said:

what story and secret gameplay?

i dont know you could start by your preffered color dino and why you name your dino plume feather muffin Rescue-Chopper Toothless. Am sure it would be more entertaining that arguing with hypocrite .

[MrGerard]

How to balance Griffin.

1. Remove the ability to shoot while mounted..  Not sure who thought that a C-130 gunship would be great addition to this game.!

[Olivar]

3 minutes ago, Carcajou said:

i dont know you could start by your preffered color dino and why you name your dino plume feather muffin Rescue-Chopper Toothless. Am sure it would be more entertaining that arguing with hypocrite .

Oh that.
 

• Rescue-Chopper : We tamed him on Scorched earth, and our mini base looked like a small beach club at the obelisk. Often he's the Quetz used for mounting rescues when someone dies somewhere and we need to go pick up the tame + gear of the person died
• Muffin : Cause his color scheme resembles that of a freshly baked muffin
• Feather : Cause he has the nice dark brown color scheme, showing the detail in his feathers
• Plume : Similar to Feather, but he's the dark colored Gryphon with yellowish belly

Almost every single dino we have tamed has a name.
Either related to their function, randomly invented or related to some other game we play/played.

[Sup3riorArs3nal]

Griffins are basically the undoing of the Flyer nerf. They are:

The fastest flyers by far when even halfway good at diving

Capable if delivering high melee giga tier per-hit damage.

Capable of equaling or exceeding high-tech high imprint quetzal health (Lack if a headshot multiplier  and twice the health value potential more than makes up for a lack of saddle)

Have manueverability second only to Tappys

Can both have passengers and mounted riders with the ability to use weapons.

 

This is all packed into an easy to store, easy to tame box. They are insanely out of balance to say the least. My best guess to balance them would be to put them closer in league with smaller flyers with a 60% health nerf and cut back in the absurd damage by reducing the dive multiplier from 14x to 7x. Keep the speed and utility but make them much closer to high speed/damage glass cannons with extra utility instead of 'master of all' flyers like they are now.

[Olivar]

Yes, a gryphon can have a passenger with mounted weapons, but your field in which you can actually use these weapons is extremely limited. You can only look like 120 degrees forward, and the center 60 degrees are blocked by your rider and gryphon head, whereas the other sides are completely blocked by the wings.
You have 2 small openings left and right to shoot anything and more often than not it's nearly impossible to actually aim and hit something.

 

Passenger with weapon is for me definitely NOT a redeeming feature of this animal.

[X111]

24 minutes ago, Carcajou said:

if 90% of players are using this one dino over others then I'd say the odds are pretty balanced? 

WAIT YOU BELIVE THAT IF PEOPLE USE EVERY DINO IN THE GAME TO PVP , ITS NOT BALANCED ?

also if i follow your train of tough i believe  that we should remove 90 % of pvp dino since no one use them. Let me push this argument even further beyond the realm of "The Hypocrisy" i would say if 100 % of the player use griffin THE GAME IS FULLY BALANCE! OMG SO INTELLIGENT!

E=GRIFFIN 

 I might be able to believe you if i never pvp with/again griffin but i do so i just dont and i have a fully functional brain also 

You guys are in the same group that were saying that Ptera were ok Pre-Nerf when they were able to deal with any ground mount and be the most easiest to tame and breed. 

History always repeat itself.

 

please string a coherent sentence as all I saw made my eyes bleed.

your above statements are not intelligent or grammatically correct.

so in essence you say you do use the griffin?

you're probably sour to the griffin and to everyone who does not agree with you because you're screaming through tears of grief? I imagine you have recently been wiped by a well prepared and skilled player using only a griffin?

if this is so, then I do question your method.

if you have lost encounters with griffins, then perhaps it is not the mechanics of them game but perhaps the way you play it?

perhaps the reason is due to a poor counter attack?

every creature in the game has its weaknesses but you seem too obtuse to contemplate them.

judging by your arts and crafts above you prefer things to be set in a way that if someone has something that is beyond your scope currently then you would want something that would immediately counter which you may have already obtained otherwise.

a very linear way of thinking.

responding to your really strange thought patterns at the beginning, do you not realise that PVP is about using the best dino's to be a head of the everyone? its been shown through the different stages of the game;

someone has a ptera, present how good they are, everyone gets a ptera, people who cant get a ptera moan about how they're overpowered, blanket nerf added to game.

apply the same logic to your argument (if you can call it that) and present further discontent for the decisions WC make.

 

(pardon the grammar on this not being corrected but I believe you'll get by)

[wasser510]

i would love to see chain bolas around, but nobody uses them. Not the griffins fault.

[Carcajou]

50 minutes ago, X111 said:

recently been wiped by a well prepared and skilled player using only a griffin?

Because there nothing for nothing if i dont agree with the Griffin are super fine IT MUST BE A REASON. Let me go fishing for the train of tough that you did 

What you believe

- He must suck with griffin

-He must not have enough griffin 

- HE IS CRAZY 

But you were right that i strongly disagree that griffin are fine because i been pvping the last 2 week with a group of people that were more organize than us and they really showed us that its GRIFFIN OR DIE.

50 minutes ago, X111 said:

please string a coherent sentence as all I saw made my eyes bleed.

Is your neocortex only able to think in sentence or you only chose to compose short and simple sentence so i cannot expose your bad grammar when you just made fun of mine 

 

50 minutes ago, X111 said:

every creature in the game has its weaknesses but you seem too obtuse to contemplate them.

Yep its just that griffin dont have many but there some like: when you dont have any stam. that why a 3v1 is impossible since one of them might just wait till you dont have stamina and rush you.  

I could go on and on about how griffin are breaking the game but your not worth it 

50 minutes ago, X111 said:

responding to your really strange thought patterns at the beginning, do you not realise that PVP is about using the best dino's to be a head of the everyone? its been shown through the different stages of the game;

You just dont use your brain much. This strategy never once worked in real time. You need to have everything to win a war 90 % of the time. People will go for the meta but when there next to no counter to the current meta there a problem. 

There a problem when the only counter to a griffin is a griffin. 

I dont know why am talking to you. Your so not worth, i feel like am Neil DegrasseTyson and your a random astrologer  .

 

If you dont know the guy...

 

Also i know you know that griffin are op but you are enjoying the game as it is but since you know it breaking the game your trying to make excuse to not change the current meta. I get it. 

[MrGerard]

41 minutes ago, X111 said:

please string a coherent sentence as all I saw made my eyes bleed.

your above statements are not intelligent or grammatically correct.

so in essence you say you do use the griffin?

you're probably sour to the griffin and to everyone who does not agree with you because you're screaming through tears of grief? I imagine you have recently been wiped by a well prepared and skilled player using only a griffin?

if this is so, then I do question your method.

if you have lost encounters with griffins, then perhaps it is not the mechanics of them game but perhaps the way you play it?

perhaps the reason is due to a poor counter attack?

every creature in the game has its weaknesses but you seem too obtuse to contemplate them.

judging by your arts and crafts above you prefer things to be set in a way that if someone has something that is beyond your scope currently then you would want something that would immediately counter which you may have already obtained otherwise.

a very linear way of thinking.

responding to your really strange thought patterns at the beginning, do you not realise that PVP is about using the best dino's to be a head of the everyone? its been shown through the different stages of the game;

someone has a ptera, present how good they are, everyone gets a ptera, people who cant get a ptera moan about how they're overpowered, blanket nerf added to game.

apply the same logic to your argument (if you can call it that) and present further discontent for the decisions WC make.

 

(pardon the grammar on this not being corrected but I believe you'll get by)

Hahahaha.!!! 

 

Just wow.!!! 

You start off by saying this guy has bad grammar and that he has low intelligence. Everything you said after that was so bad... You tried to hard to sound smart that you came off as someone with below average intellect.

Don't do that again.

[Carcajou]

12 minutes ago, MrGerard said:

Hahahaha.!!! 

 

Just wow.!!! 

You start off by saying this guy has bad grammar and that he has low intelligence. Everything you said after that was so bad... You tried to hard to sound smart that you came off as someone with below average intellect.

Don't do that again.

hy·poc·ri·sy

həˈpäkrəsē/

noun

 

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretens

[Wildthing]

Here we go with the next Thread 

[X111]

19 minutes ago, Carcajou said:

Because there nothing for nothing if i dont agree with the Griffin are super fine IT MUST BE A REASON. Let me go fishing for the train of tough that you did 

What you believe

- He must suck with griffin

-He must not have enough griffin 

- HE IS CRAZY 

But you were right that i strongly disagree that griffin are fine because i been pvping the last 2 week with a group of people that were more organize than us and they really showed us that its GRIFFIN OR DIE.

Is your neocortex only able to think in sentence or you only chose to compose short and simple sentence so i cannot expose your bad grammar when you just made fun of mine 

 

Yep its just that griffin dont have many but there some like: when you dont have any stam. that why a 3v1 is impossible since one of them might just wait till you dont have stamina and rush you.  

I could go on and on about how griffin are breaking the game but your not worth it 

You just dont use your brain much. This strategy never once worked in real time. You need to have everything to win a war 90 % of the time. People will go for the meta but when there next to no counter to the current meta there a problem. 

There a problem when the only counter to a griffin is a griffin. 

I dont know why am talking to you. Your so not worth, i feel like am Neil DegrasseTyson and your a random astrologer  .

 

 

If you dont know the guy...

 

Also i know you know that griffin are op but you are enjoying the game as it is but since you know it breaking the game your trying to make excuse to not change the current meta. I get it. 

using pictures to reinforce your arguments...

I have only entertained PVP for a few months and got bored of it, the game has its counters, please explore all options available to you before crying about how you got PVP'd and it wasn't fair. I joined a friends tribe who was set up to the point of completing bosses and saw how they dealt with issues surrounding griffins.

a Tappy with good saddle and 2 passengers who know how to play the game are very effective.

23 minutes ago, Carcajou said:

hy·poc·ri·sy

həˈpäkrəsē/

noun

 

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretens

hypocrisy is only accused if its against your personal beliefs

unfortunately the game will not conform to your own behaviour or moral standards but in not doing so you feel you have a right to accuse everyone who does not agree with you of hypocrisy. in essence you practice this yourself by pretending to table a valid point that would benefit all however in secret it is because you are unable to deal with the way it has been established, for example being PVP'd.

 

19 minutes ago, MrGerard said:

Hahahaha.!!! 

 

Just wow.!!! 

You start off by saying this guy has bad grammar and that he has low intelligence. Everything you said after that was so bad... You tried to hard to sound smart that you came off as someone with below average intellect.

Don't do that again.

please propose the bad points and explain, better yet add more to the argument and stop sniping from the side lines. I apologised for the bad grammar as I am conscious of it, it looks like you have just posted on this thread for the sheer joy of it?

[ForzaProiettile]

10 hours ago, johnm81 said:

When a creatures best counter is itself ... By definition means its not balanced.

Yep well said johnm81. I've been playing multiplayer games for over 20 years and there is often 2 good indicators that something is OP.

1). Everyone is using it

2). In order to counter it you have to use it yourself.

The Griffin ticks both boxes. It is like the pre nerf Pteradon in many respects. Why bother using anything else when this one thing does nearly everything. As I said in my original post all the raids I've been on post Griffin release has seen the air entirely full of Griffins and little else. A significant is needed in order to bring back the variety and balance in the air.

[X111]

5 minutes ago, ForzaProiettile said:

Yep well said johnm81. I've been playing multiplayer games for over 20 years and there is often 2 good indicators that something is OP.

1). Everyone is using it

2). In order to counter it you have to use it yourself.

The Griffin ticks both boxes. It is like the pre nerf Pteradon in many respects. Why bother using anything else when this one thing does nearly everything. As I said in my original post all the raids I've been on post Griffin release has seen the air entirely full of Griffins and little else. A significant is needed in order to bring back the variety and balance in the air.

i see this point of view and agree with it, but its been the same path taken on this game for every animal that has come out that has no other utility than attack.

the ptera came along, everyone used it, therefore it became the meta

Quetz came along, box quetz became a thing, unlimited weight abilities were used, griefing on PVE was massive

Tappy, now there's and interesting animal, overlooked for so long, SE in my opinion was where it flourished with egg stealing, also i have seen some pretty impressive dogfights where they were used almost like apache gun ships and what with tech, they have been revitalised, pre nerf and it was the best nausea inducing dino to ride shot gun on but chasing down gigas to tame or flying circles around ground targets.

the wyvern, this became a complete terror in PVP, the ptera still put up a good fight with one of these but players started flying around in flocks and to be able to arrive in a blink of an eye due to pre-nerf settings made this a very fast strafe runner. only weakness was its turning circle which the Tappy made a mockery of in mid to close combat but usually only if you managed to survive the first attack run of a wyvern.

now that we have the griffin, we will see this used more and more, why? because its the only mount post nerf that has any actual benefit to PVP players. remove the flyer nerf and it will fall straight into line with the likes of a tappy/ptera hybrid with a very weak attack and next to no utility.

the consumption on Stam when attacking and/flying to a height that will cause enough damage is already quite high, perhaps only increase stam requirements and debuff the amount of points added per level up in the stam stat?

has anyone tried to test the effectiveness of the phoenix yet?

from what I've seen, they consume a lot of resources when sprinting, have a DOT when attacking and are mobile forges/cookers. could it also be a counter to the griffin?

[SmokeyB]

Would anyone be infavour of leaving griffins as they are and instead giving us our good flyers back to counter them. 

I miss my 200% speed 4k stam 5k health 600% melee 380 weight barrel rolling ptera of death . 

[johnm81]

8 hours ago, LouSpowells said:

I said, quite simply, that the best way to counter a Griffin was a Griffin. Are you now saying that my saying it proves that Griffins are overpowered and need to be nerfed? There's no need to twist yourself up with all these mental gymnastics displays.

Yes, it shows that there is an imbalance that needs to be fixed. Either by adjusting the griffin or by adjusting other flyers. 

Twisted? No mental strain here bro.

[rororoxor]

IMO the best thing they could do to address these nerfmongers is to allow proper headshot/bullet multipliers.

[rororoxor]

5 hours ago, Olivar said:

Just because I can:

I don't really like the Gryphon that much to be honest.
 

I like how gryphons move, but I'm not a fan of the dive-bombing.
It feels to cluncky for me to pull off reliably.

That's the thing dude. It's not clunky at all-you just need to learn to use it properly. I assume you try to dive and swipe directly above the creature? 

Anyway, I really love the griffin not only because of its abilities, but also because it actually allows the players to explore their mount's abilities and separates the skilled and the unskilled. There's just so much to learn from it, no?

[Olivar]

2 minutes ago, rororoxor said:

That's the thing dude. It's not clunky at all-you just need to learn to use it properly. I assume you try to dive and swipe directly above the creature? 

Anyway, I really love the griffin not only because of its abilities, but also because it actually allows the players to explore their mount's abilities and separates the skilled and the unskilled. There's just so much to learn from it, no?

It is clunky for me.
hence why I do not like it.
We all have our preferences and play-styles.

[rororoxor]

1 hour ago, Olivar said:

It is clunky for me.
hence why I do not like it.
We all have our preferences and play-styles.

I completely get that, just didn't want you to do the griffin an injustice. If it's not ur mount, then that's up to you

[KingGalahad]

1 hour ago, rororoxor said:

IMO the best thing they could do to address these nerfmongers is to allow proper headshot/bullet multipliers.

This is a problem with most games nowadays. There are too many nerfmongers. When players think something is too powerful they seem to jump on a bandwagon to have it nerfed (well the vocal minority at least). It would be nice for a change if rather than them calling for a nerf on everything, if these same players could propose a buff to the counter. The problem with nerfs is that once everything is nerfed the game becomes stale and boring. 

[ForzaProiettile]

5 minutes ago, KingGalahad said:

This is a problem with most games nowadays. There are too many nerfmongers. When players think something is too powerful they seem to jump on a bandwagon to have it nerfed (well the vocal minority at least). It would be nice for a change if rather than them calling for a nerf on everything, if these same players could propose a buff to the counter. The problem with nerfs is that once everything is nerfed the game becomes stale and boring. 

The problem is you get players who don't like or understand the concept of balance. We are talking about the same folks who hated the dino stats nerf, and the same folks who screamed about losing their OP flyers. These same folks are now screaming at the devs not to balance turrets. It's the same names, the same people that less then a year ago typed they were "done with this game" over the flyer nerf.

I used to have a Pteradon that could 1 hit Alpha Raptors. It had over 1000% damage on it. It was a great bird. Was it balanced? Absolutely not. I was one of the first who thanked the devs for nerfing tamed dino stats across the board. Players have to put game balance ahead of their own selfishness. It was not to my immediate benefit that my OP bird be nerfed but I could see long term that it would lead to a better game.