Griffin Balance

[yekrucifixion187]

Got to love the over corrections when they nerf stuff. They don't tweak it to see the reaction they purple nurple the thing with a wrench. 

I'm lucky my Griffin's main use is to hover while I tranq Rex's and lure Golem's into traps since I already raised the Wyvern's I want. It's gonna suck with the Golem's now because I normally take at least 2 to 5 hits once it's in the trap so its head stays steady. 21k to I'm gonna guess 6 to 7 k (find out when I update at lunch but seen one guy post his 25k hp griffin was down to 9.8k hp.)

I guess work around is with a third member to distract with shield while I change out Griffin's and then he can meat heal the other one. 

[DarthaNyan]

2 hours ago, ChargingParacerParacer said:

So is there going to be a work around for this like when you quickly catered to the anti turret nerfers and the people who didn't like respec limits Wildcard?? 

in Game.ini under [/script/shootergame.shootergamemode] add:

DinoClassDamageMultipliers=(ClassName="Griffin_Character_BP_C",Multiplier=2.0)
DinoClassResistanceMultipliers=(ClassName="Griffin_Character_BP_C",Multiplier=0.66)

because all that has been changed - their durability and damage.

[johnm81]

Can we get some before and after numbers up here? I would myself but my tribe just started over on a new server and we don't have any griffins at the moment. 

[Ascendant]

38 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

Making them breedable will make them even stronger than their pre-nerfed version because of imprinting and rider buff.

You sure about that? I tamed a 150 griffin with 13.3k health, leveled it up to a little over 16k health, and now it has less than 8k health.

[ChargingParacerParacer]

1 minute ago, DarthaNyan said:

DinoClassDamageMultipliers=(ClassName="Griffin_Character_BP_C",Multiplier=2.0)
DinoClassResistanceMultipliers=(ClassName="Griffin_Character_BP_C",Multiplier=0.66)

Thanks, if I wanted to buff stamina on some creatures should I put Stamina between Class and Multipliers, or perhaps just Stam? If that works I can finally tone the overall stam back down so land critters will get tired again.

[DarthaNyan]

5 minutes ago, Ascendant said:

You sure about that? I tamed a 150 griffin with 13.3k health, leveled it up to a little over 16k health, and now it has less than 8k health.

yes, because 30% incoming damage reduction rider buff is essentially a 50% effective HP (eHP) buff, on top of HP bonus and melee from imprint that works to a lesser effect but similarly to Giga due to post tame reductions on both HP and Melee on Griffins.

[DarthaNyan]

Just now, ChargingParacerParacer said:

Thanks, if I wanted to buff stamina on some creatures should I put Stamina between Class and Multipliers, or perhaps just Stam? If that works I can finally tone the overall stam back down so land critters will get tired again.

No, those arent stats, those are multipliers and we can only control (per dino class) damage they deal and damage they receive.

[ChargingParacerParacer]

3 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

No, those arent stats, those are multipliers and we can only control (per dino class) damage they deal and damage they receive.

At least that's something then, thanks.

[DarthaNyan]

1 minute ago, ChargingParacerParacer said:

At least that's something then, thanks.

every other solution will sadly affect all tamed dinos, and some will affect all dinos.

Do note that damage reduction affects wild Griffins as well making them harder to knock out (less damage received = less torpor).

[Z0mbie]

Anyone seen my Griffin's testicles lying around here? Seems someone chopped 'em off last night. Was thinking I might try and glue 'em back on or something...

[yekrucifixion187]

5 minutes ago, Z0mbie said:

Anyone seen my Griffin's testicles lying around here? Seems someone chopped 'em off last night. Was thinking I might try and glue 'em back on or something...

They have been made into a necklace for Wyvern's to start wearing again.

They need to nerf Wyvern's now. Now they are too hard to hurt again. Now they need to nerf Argies again. Their health pool is too large. Wait Griffin's health pool is still too large compared to the other birds.  All birds must have same health pools. If we nerf enough things I believe my plan of fighting Alpha Broodmother with an army of Lystro's may be a real thing soon. 

[johnm81]

10 minutes ago, Z0mbie said:

Anyone seen my Griffin's testicles lying around here? Seems someone chopped 'em off last night. Was thinking I might try and glue 'em back on or something...

How bad a reduction was it? Numbers?

[invincibleqc]

1 minute ago, johnm81 said:

How bad a reduction was it? Numbers?

On 3/27/2017 at 10:42 AM, Jatheish said:

- Reduced the Griffin's base HP by 30% 
- Reduced the Griffin's HP gained per level (wild) by 25%
- Reduced the Griffin's HP gained per level (tamed) by 22%
- Reduced the Griffin's Base stamina by 10%
- Reduced the Griffin's diving swipe damage by 50%
- Reduced the Griffin's dive bomb damage by 25%

 

[raptorjesus666]

4 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

How bad a reduction was it? Numbers?

21k health to barely over 9k

(this also counts in the reduction of all level points spend in health, which are also reduced now)

[jpcab]

 this constant changes are raptoring irritating

[KingGalahad]

Well I guess congratulations are due. Thanks to a few whiners here, we once again have a nerf that has effectively grounded another flyer. It really sucks that they brought out such a heavy handed nerf. With these new stats, my Griffin is basically useless now. It will barely have enough stamina to make it halfway from blue obi to Viking bay. One thing they could at least do with this nerf is remove the stamina loss while gliding, as that makes no sense. 

It sucks that because of the whining of a few pvp'ers, that griffins are effectively trashed for pve as well. As far as mods, it won't do any good when this hits consoles, as we have no access to mods. We are stuck with the bad decisions wildcard makes. 

[johnm81]

5 minutes ago, KingGalahad said:

Well I guess congratulations are due. Thanks to a few whiners here, we once again have a nerf that has effectively grounded another flyer. It really sucks that they brought out such a heavy handed nerf. With these new stats, my Griffin is basically useless now. It will barely have enough stamina to make it halfway from blue obi to Viking bay. One thing they could at least do with this nerf is remove the stamina loss while gliding, as that makes no sense. 

It sucks that because of the whining of a few pvp'ers, that griffins are effectively trashed for pve as well. As far as mods, it won't do any good when this hits consoles, as we have no access to mods. We are stuck with the bad decisions wildcard makes. 

what was your stam before and after?

[Ascendant]

22 minutes ago, KingGalahad said:

Well I guess congratulations are due. Thanks to a few whiners here, we once again have a nerf that has effectively grounded another flyer. It really sucks that they brought out such a heavy handed nerf. With these new stats, my Griffin is basically useless now. It will barely have enough stamina to make it halfway from blue obi to Viking bay. One thing they could at least do with this nerf is remove the stamina loss while gliding, as that makes no sense. 

It sucks that because of the whining of a few pvp'ers, that griffins are effectively trashed for pve as well. As far as mods, it won't do any good when this hits consoles, as we have no access to mods. We are stuck with the bad decisions wildcard makes. 

It's already on consoles. They patched it this morning.

I had just tamed a 150 griffin with 328% melee, too.

[GreenRoc]

2 hours ago, DomiDarko said:

Are you really sure about CF makes flyers stuck in obelisks/transmitters?

I'm not 100% sure. Most of those dinos stuck were on a server affected by Classic Flyers. Other non-flyers stuck in there were altered by Dino Color +, or modded dinos themselves, like whelps and old gods. Some stuck flyers were spawned in at very high levels. Having the same mods in the destination world does not help recover them.

Mods in general, I want to avoid for my server. I have heard about cases where mods corrupted worlds, forcing a reset (Structures Plus)... My server's world has lived through three Halloweens. I am not willing to risk it to corruption by adding a mod.

[Drahkon]

Again with the excessive nerfs. Why use a wrench when the sledgehammer is right there. The HP hit was too heavy when the griffin can't be armored, imprinted, or bred. People don't seem to realize just how much difference a good saddle and imprint makes. The stamina hit does very little to stop pvp abuse, it annoys those just trying to play the game. Its diving attacks were murdered as well.

 

 

How to properly nerf Griffons:

1.  HP gain per wild/tamed level reduced by 20%

2.  Griffin now takes standard flyer bonus damage from ranged weapons

3.  3x Headshot modifier added for griffin

4. Griffon dive attack multipliers and range reduced by 20%

 

done, and possibly still slight overkill.

Reducing the hp gain per wild/tamed level by 20% is plenty of nerf there, more is overkill. They already had lower base hp than the wyvern, they just gained more. With a head-shot modifier and the extra damage taken from ranged attacks like other flyers have, they would be plenty squishy, maybe too much.

A dive attack nerf may be needed, but in comes the sledgehammer. Yes it hit very hard, but with a very long delay between hits. Its dps was actually reasonable. In the time it took to hit and climb again for the next hit, another good dino would hit many times doing more damage far more easily. If they really felt it was too effective and are not just caving in to player tears then fine, nerf it, but 50% is just silly. If anything it was the range of the attack that needed a nerf.

The only way this is balancing the griffin is if they are making them breedable now, and then they would need a second look, since that would bring them right back up to before, just a bit more tanky with less spike damage.

With the dive change it does crap damage, with no saddle, imprint, or hp it can't take damage, it already took a fair level investment to get it's stamina to useful levels, its weight is meh at best. So what is it now, a taxi?

TLDR: I don't approve of this nerf, it's using a RPG when they should be using a sniper rifle, missing the target and relying on the splash damage to get the job done.

[Shadow9cat]

39 minutes ago, KingGalahad said:

 

It sucks that because of the whining of a few pvp'ers, that griffins are effectively trashed for pve as well. As far as mods, it won't do any good when this hits consoles, as we have no access to mods. We are stuck with the bad decisions wildcard makes. 

Yup.  Console players get the short end of the stick here.  We won’t be getting any mods to fix it. We play on PS4 so our option to mitigate the heavy handed nature of this nerf is to buff all dinos.  I don’t want to buff all dinos.  I don’t want the game to be too easy, but I want my Griffins as they are.  

I’m holding to hope (and it’s a slim hope) that by the time this drops on console they will roll it back some. I can stand some hit, but this is just silly. 

[GreenRoc]

8 minutes ago, Shadow9cat said:

Console players get the short end of the stick here.  We won’t be getting any mods to fix it. We play on PS4 so our option to mitigate the heavy handed nature of this nerf is to buff all dinos.  I don’t want to buff all dinos.  I don’t want the game to be too easy, but I want my Griffins as they are.  

The configs we have to work with arent enough to let us micro-manage the dinos stats to be what we want, what they were before these nerfs.

If we change the stats for our tame griffins, wilds change from the same code, making the wilds harder to combat, harder to tame (unless I am mistaken and the codes for wilds and tames are separate? Wasnt separate last time I looked)

I heard Wildcard devs saying in a stream once, about how they want us to play the game we want. How can we do that if they move the stats in the opposite direction of what we want, and do not give us the tools to change it back, without affecting other aspects of the game we want untouched. I'm repeatedly frustrated when they change the game away from what I want, and dont give us the tools for those of us who dont want their server to be altered the same way official is altered.

Before the nerf, I thought the griffins HP was pretty poor overall. Now it's even worse.

[Ascendant]

I could of gotten on board with some toning down of griffins (even though I thought they were fine before,) but these changes are major overkill!

They're like a bad joke now.

[ChargingParacerParacer]

Wildcard's lack of skill at their jobs comes through again. Nice job WC.

[AngrySaltire]

36 minutes ago, Drahkon said:

Again with the excessive nerfs. Why use a wrench when the sledgehammer is right there. The HP hit was too heavy when the griffin can't be armored, imprinted, or bred. People don't seem to realize just how much difference a good saddle and imprint makes. The stamina hit does very little to stop pvp abuse, it annoys those just trying to play the game. Its diving attacks were murdered as well.

 

 

How to properly nerf Griffons:

1.  HP gain per wild/tamed level reduced by 20%

2.  Griffin now takes standard flyer bonus damage from ranged weapons

3.  3x Headshot modifier added for griffin

4. Griffon dive attack multipliers and range reduced by 20%

 

 

I am amazed that they did not implent the flyer bonus damage from ranged weapons or the head shot bonus. I was against the nerf but these two things seemed to be needed though.

31 minutes ago, Shadow9cat said:

 

I’m holding to hope (and it’s a slim hope) that by the time this drops on console they will roll it back some. I can stand some hit, but this is just silly. 

I am holding out for hope too. If enough of a fuss can be used to nerf them, then surely enough fuss can unnerf them (I kinda feel childish even suggesting that, just how strongly I feel about the situation)