Griffin Balance

[isu]

2 hours ago, AngrySaltire said:

Traveling fast is the entire point of flying. Its why I used griffins, if I want to get somewhere quickly especially on Ragnarok I use the griffin.The game is grindy enough as it is without taking 30mins to cross a map. For general use I use the wyvern (do prefer the wyvern), much more tankier and not as vulnerable as a griffin if caught on the ground.

Please dont trivialise PvE, I play PvE for the saftey of not having my progress steam rolled by other players and am willing to forgoe a certain aspect of game play to do it. I would like to PvP but its not worth it for me. I like to actual explore and progress the game rather than just PvP all the time. Its not all about building and taming dinos. 

And no just no no no. The rates should not be lowered on PvE. If anything maybe  PvP should be higher but thats a different discussion entirely.

The only thing you lost, is 50% dmg on swipe, which was broken like a hell. 

Speed wasn't nerfed, 10% stam is like no difference and hp isn't important if you don't dive/attack without brain.

[PuffyPony]

9 hours ago, Wazzamaniac said:

Honestly. That thing was way too tanky, way too strong. 

This is coming from a pve player. The griffin is wanny smaller than a rex, yet gets a huge amount more health? No

Honestly, I think they could have gone with one or the other. HP nerf or Damage nerf. Either make it a tank (like the Quetz) by nerfing Damage, or make it a glass cannon by nerfing HP. Particularly with the Stamina nerf, I think the damage nerf was overkill. If a change was really needed, just up the amount of dive time needed to initiate a powered swipe or slam, rather than taking down the damage. All the nerfs in combination are pretty over the top IMO. Wouldn't be too bad if they allowed breeding after the fact (even if they disabled imprinting on the Griffin), but as is, I'm none too happy with it

[KingGalahad]

On 16/12/2017 at 9:19 AM, johnm81 said:

what was your stam before and after?

been playing on Aberration. Will be going back to feed my ragnarok dinos today

 

[johnm81]

2 hours ago, Ascendant said:

I take it you'll be calling for the wyverns to be nerfed next, then.

No. 

[Ascendant]

2 hours ago, johnm81 said:

That's the problem there shouldn't be a pecking order which implies a linear progression of fliers. It should rather be a cyclic paper rock scissors system.

Secondly, The sheer amount of damage it was able to due was huge. I had a griffin with 800% melee damage and in 3-4 dive swipes killed a wyvern and its rider! The wyvern had about 15k. What else in this game aside from a titan is in that order of magnitude in damage output. 

The correction was massive because it was massively broken....

800% melee damage, BTW? You must not be on official. Assuming you tamed a really high melee griffin and max leveled it with every last point in melee, you'd be hard pressed to break 700, much less 800. That would leave you with a measly 600-700 stamina on average, as well.

For the sake of argument let's say you are on official, pumped every last point into melee, and murdered a wyvern in PvP with 4 dive swipes. That player shouldn't have lost if he knew what he was doing and avoided getting picked. Wyverns are faster than griffins so he could have simply beat you in a race for altitude, wait until your 600-700 stamina is drained, and then choose to either escape or wreck you. That's without bringing an ice wyvern into the equation, either.

[johnm81]

9 minutes ago, Ascendant said:

800% melee damage, BTW? You must not be on official. Assuming you tamed a really high melee griffin and max leveled it with every last point in melee, you'd be hard pressed to break 700, much less 800. That would leave you with a measly 600-700 stamina on average, as well.

For the sake of argument let's say you are on official, pumped every last point into melee, and murdered a wyvern in PvP with 4 dive swipes. That player shouldn't have lost if he knew what he was doing and avoided getting picked. Wyverns are faster than griffins so he could have simply beat you in a race for altitude, wait until your 600-700 stamina is drained, and then choose to either escape or wreck you. That's without bringing an ice wyvern into the equation, either.

150 kibble tamed every point in melee so stam was low and he had great stat distribution. Yes 800%.

Who said anything about picking?

Wyvern is not faster than a griffin if pilot knows the look down while back peddling then shift w  move gives you max swoop speed instantly

[ChargingParacerParacer]

8 hours ago, Rofelo said:

I’m personally glad they did it finally, air dinos shouldn’t be so strong. 

Spawn a boss into your world and only use air mounts, see how far you actually get.

[Wazzamaniac]

35 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

150 kibble tamed every point in melee so stam was low and he had great stat distribution. Yes 800%.

Who said anything about picking?

Wyvern is not faster than a griffin if pilot knows the look down while back peddling then shift w  move gives you max swoop speed instantly

That backpedal trick was patched a couple months ago.

[johnm81]

19 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said:

That backpedal trick was patched a couple months ago.

No

The back peddle at sprint speed was.

The back peddle while looking down then shift w + realign direction is still in play

[Wazzamaniac]

1 minute ago, johnm81 said:

No

The back peddle at sprint speed was.

The back peddle while looking down then shift w + realign direction is still in play

Its much slower now.

[Orion]

They already got nerfed in both damage and health.

My 22k+ HP Griffins went down to 6k. Damage per dive attack went from around ~1,200 to ~500.

[johnm81]

1 hour ago, Wazzamaniac said:

Its much slower now.

You are confusing two things. What was patched out was a method to gain altitude very fast. What I am talking about is just a method of gaining max diving speed without having to climb at all for it while already flying.

[Wazzamaniac]

1 minute ago, johnm81 said:

You are confusing two things. What was patched out was a method to gain altitude very fast. What I am talking about is just a method of gaining max diving speed without having to climb at all for it while already flying.

I am talking about the thing that let you backpedal, look down and get a dive without going higher than 10 meters. Is that what you are talking about? that is patched.

[Zederia]

1325

+265

+5.4%

-1000

 

So at level 1 a griffin has 1325 HP, then we LOSE 1000 for taming it. (since the wiki is not updated yet):

level 1 would be 227 if done post-tame 

Why does just about every dino LOSE strength when we tame them? If my math is correct it would take 4 levels to reach a wild level 1 strength. and I'm only talking about HP. we lose 50% of damage too, we lose more and more than anything we ever gain.

 

Giga's gone to the ground, Rex loses speed.. what else are we missing? (besides losing all control of some of the flier stats, where they got hit EXTREMELY hard)

[BoboOfTheFriendlies]

Every time something is done for game balance there are a bunch of trolls that jump in claiming it was a result of people that can't play whining to Wildcard.  If you are so "gud" that you look down on people that want game balance it shouldn't matter to you what gets nerfed, right?  I mean, you are so awesome and superior you don't need anything but a bow and a club to defeat all these people that are so lame at PVP..  :-p  Griffins were definitely out of balance.  Any tame where you can just spam a pattern and win all the time against equally skilled players is a balance problem, because then it is just a matter of getting one.  If the game was just a race to tame the ultimate dino it would not be nearly as interesting as it should be.

[Zederia]

8 minutes ago, BoboOfTheFriendlies said:

Every time something is done for game balance there are a bunch of trolls that jump in claiming it was a result of people that can't play whining to Wildcard.

 

What kind of balance is it if the wild creatures are ALWAYS stronger than our own? in PvP sure, I'll give you that balance is a problem (just look how quick you can wreck a base of turrets with minimal loss) There is very little to the PvP aspects of this game, and the PvE just gets more taxing by the day. Can you beat someone with a combo over and over again? yes. I can also do that in tekken, does that mean my character (a BALANCED fighter) so be nerfed? Should that combo be nerfed?  No, it really should not, because it comes at more than just that one character's detriment, and it even effects players as a whole. Back in Tekken 3 (and a few other fighters) there was a character that could inf juggle you in the air, thanks to the falling mechanics. When the next game came out and the bug was discovered it was fixed, but the change was the move became more powerful, with a set limit of how often you could use it.

 

just look at the dossier for the wyvern:

"I can imagine no flying mount more deadly than Draconis vipera. Its strength, toughness and ability rain death upon one's enemies makes it unmatched in combat. The few creatures that it cannot immediately overpower, it can outmaneuver."

these are the level 1 stats of a wyvern(tamed):

hp 1725-1050= 675
sta: 275
oxy: (who cares)
food: (who cares)
weight: 400
melee: 80-25%(20)= 60

 

So we can.. maybe take 1 hit from a wild one (who can out-speed by the way, and breathe inf.), Breathe once before we HAVE to land to recover stamina (we now have 75, if all we did was breathe) and the bites we can do do 60 pts, vs 80 from a wild one.

if EVERYTHING lines up perfectly: it will take us 29 bites to kill a level 1 wild wvyern with a tamed one, that same wyvern can kill us in 9

[johnm81]

1 hour ago, Wazzamaniac said:

I am talking about the thing that let you backpedal, look down and get a dive without going higher than 10 meters. Is that what you are talking about? that is patched.

Nope its still in.

Just tested it 5 min ago on a griffin my tribe just kibble tamed on an official server.

[Wazzamaniac]

54 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

Nope its still in.

Just tested it 5 min ago on a griffin my tribe just kibble tamed on an official server.

You cannot sprint backwards anymore. Ive also tested it.

[Simonw89]

Please don't nerf our griffens 

[Zederia]

1 minute ago, Simonw89 said:

Please don't nerf our griffens 

they already did. Don't listen, just like the FCC..

[Probitas]

13 hours ago, Rofelo said:

I’m personally glad they did it finally, air dinos shouldn’t be so strong. 

OK, go find a woodpecker and try to pick it up by hand, and then attempt to argue that it shouldn't be able to do that much damage to you cause you're about 100 times larger. Or better, stand in front of a stooping eagle and argue with gravity that it shouldn't be able to hurt you that much. The ability to do damage is not a function of size in nature, or you boys live very sheltered lives indeed.

Or for land animals, the badger or the wolverine. There is a reason the larger predators give them wide berths.

[johnm81]

12 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said:

You cannot sprint backwards anymore. Ive also tested it.

I never said you could. Again we are talking about two different things. 

 

[ChargingParacerParacer]

52 minutes ago, BoboOfTheFriendlies said:

Every time something is done for game balance there are a bunch of trolls that jump in claiming it was a result of people that can't play whining to Wildcard.  Not the forums fault if the legitimate truth hurts your feelings. If you are so "gud" that you look down on people that want game balance it shouldn't matter to you what gets nerfed, right?  I mean, you are so awesome and superior you don't need anything but a bow and a club to defeat all these people that are so lame at PVP..  :-p  Griffins were definitely out of balance.  Wrong again Any tame where you can just spam a pattern and win all the time against equally skilled players is a balance problem, because then it is just a matter of getting one. You mean like people with the best land dinos only have to run up on defenses and weak players and destroy them all? It matters because like it or not these changes effect every player. Like it or not perfect balance is nothing more than a pipedream. Smart players are always going to figure out the new most efficient way to get around 'balance' and wreck not so smart players. Those not so smart players will then do what they always do and cry about the new OP tactic they were too lazy to develop counter tactics for on their own and this cycle is going to keep repeating until they just make all stats the same and dino type will be nothing more than cosmetic. Chasing the pipedream of perfect balance is ruining the game for non pvpers who paid the same amount of mohey as anyone else. If the game was just a race to tame the ultimate dino it would not be nearly as interesting as it should be. That's adorable go tell that line to people that rush to tame Gigas, Brontos, Rexs, Stegos, Wolf packs, Titans, Mosas, Squids, and tell that to the people who rush to breed the incredably small amount of dinos that can be boss killers.

 

[Wazzamaniac]

Just now, johnm81 said:

I never said you could. Again we are talking about two different things. 

 

What im saying is, (maybe i didnt express it clearly) is that the "sprint backwards quickly then dive for speed boost in 2 seconds flat" trick doesnt work. you CAN still get the insta speed if you slowly lug your griffin backwards for a while, then go forward. But at this point its actually faster to just gain altitude and dive forwards. So the tactic is kinda crippled

[johnm81]

1 minute ago, Wazzamaniac said:

What im saying is, (maybe i didnt express it clearly) is that the "sprint backwards quickly then dive for speed boost in 2 seconds flat" trick doesnt work. you CAN still get the insta speed if you slowly lug your griffin backwards for a while, then go forward. But at this point its actually faster to just gain altitude and dive forwards. So the tactic is kinda crippled

And what I am saying is you can look down hold back for half a second then shift w to get insta max speed thus a wyvern rider can't out pace a griffin with this tactic.