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Griffin Balance


ForzaProiettile

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8 hours ago, Z0mbie said:

I really wish these nerf-happy folks would just go play a First Person Shooter and stop crying about how every dino and object is way too OP.  If you can't handle things being stronger/faster/better than your in-game person then go play a FPS.

In Fact is the Griffins not made From WC itself made from the folk who made the Ragnork Map which is not close to finish. The whole Map is unbalanced and not finished  look at Pearl cave 17k Pearls in 10 Mins on offical without any enmy in the Cave. Look at the Spino Spawns ....... and and and... And the Griffin itelf is in the Game now yeah but its far away from balanced. A Bird who you can shoot From. A bird who makes the Most Dmg of all Dinos. The Bird with the most Hp. The Fastet Bird. So what else Dino is the best in all? They Nerved they Flyers because of a Reason and now we have the same poop bevore the Nerv...

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3 hours ago, l4m3r said:

In Fact is the Griffins not made From WC itself made from the folk who made the Ragnork Map which is not close to finish. The whole Map is unbalanced and not finished  look at Pearl cave 17k Pearls in 10 Mins on offical without any enmy in the Cave. Look at the Spino Spawns ....... and and and... And the Griffin itelf is in the Game now yeah but its far away from balanced. A Bird who you can shoot From. A bird who makes the Most Dmg of all Dinos. The Bird with the most Hp. The Fastet Bird. So what else Dino is the best in all? They Nerved they Flyers because of a Reason and now we have the same poop bevore the Nerv...

Have to agree with this.
Comparing the damage output from a freshly tamed gryphon against a pure bred rex/theri/Giga is just ridiculous.
They can do soo much with the dive bomb.
Not even keeping their healthpool and speed  in mind....

14 minutes ago, Stephania said:

Ark developers are awful in matter of balance.

see Above

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You guys are a bunch of drama queens and I'm calling BS on everything you're saying.   My personal experiences are that GRIFFINS ARE NOT OP.

I recently got Ragnarok and this thread specifically led me to believe Griffins are OP,   so I went out and tamed myself a 140.   I tanked the wild 140 on an Argy with 2k health while my mates tranq'ed it down.      I was a little surprised my bird didn't die.   The wild griffin AOE didn't kill anyone or even hurt anyones armor very much despite being within the AOE attacks. 

So ok, maybe it's post-tame.     Fast forward a very boring 1.5 hours for a kibble tame.  It tamed out at 204.   I was excited.     Not as excited as I was to see THE ORIGINAL STATS DROP FROM WILD.    Yea, nobody mentioned that.    

Tamed Stats:

9600 health
700 stamina
414 weight
225% Melee

First the health pool: 

The Health pool was a little large, but there's no saddle so we might as well cut that in half for effective HP.     It's on par with Wyverns really.  This seemed a bit large.  I can see where the OP can come from here.

Stamina / Weight:

The stamina and weight are closer to that of a Tapejara.   I was incredibly disappointed with the stamina drain.  i had to land twice due to stamina when flying from the castle to the Blue Obelisk.    I wasn't dive bombing and taking advantage of that speed bonus.   When re-tested.  I had to land once still.

The weight needs leveled up significantly if both myself and a passenger are going fully loaded ready to shoot.

Melee:

This was the most disappointing thing I've ever experienced in any animal tamed in ark to date.  You all are f'king nuts.    3 hits to kill a dodo.   3.       yes,  3.   You want a video?  It's up to 250% melee now and it still takes 2 to kill a Dodo.    I literally got off the griffin and killed a moschops with a sword faster than my griffin killed it.    

So the divebomb.   I managed to pull off diving a pack of troodons once.  I missed 2 but 1 shotted the other.    It's effectively a skillshot that takes some practice.  It does do damage but requires prep time, skill, targeting, and a bit of luck to pull it off - and it still can't 1 shot a strong dino.    Those are acceptable trade offs. 

---

While I was screwing around with the 140 griffin,   my tribe mates tamed  a 55 and a 20.   Low level,  but any OP low level animal should be able to take out 2 troodons right?   Ok ok,  2 OP low level griffins should be able to take out 2 troodons for sure.   I mean, I tamed a level 2 Therizino and it can take on an alpha raptor,  so 2 Griffins v 2 Troodons should be no contest. 

Well.........tell that to my tribemates who were so angry they rage quit for the night.   

 

Griffin is not OP.    Maybe for PvP when you're dive bombing players, but come on...   it's practically an oversized pteranadon as it stands now. 

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On 11/22/2017 at 5:56 AM, Matilda said:

Please do not nerf anythi.ng at all about Griffin in PvE. This mount was clearly made for rag and is so much fun. Do what you want in PvP but please speak for yourself. There are many counters to the Griffin: 1. Getting stuck clipped into a wild giga, dead. 2) d/c'ing above the scar, griffin will die. 3) freezing at the scar and diving I to lava, dead. 4) being curious at the castle and left clicking. 5)trying to hot tail it out of the cove and getting a little too close to the water. I could go on and on.

I once got stuck inside a wild giga. Fortunately, I was able to escape with only 2K hp remaining out of 12K. They really should fix this sort of thing...

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Even in pve i think it should be nerfed. But how would they nerf it while keeping the fun things about it? 

- reduce its hp and torpor (as a side effect it might make taming it without a cage easier, which I don't want, but maybe the AI can be set to run away sooner)

- make it more vulnerable to ranged weapons

- reduce it's base speed and rework how diving works. You should still be able to achieve the same sprint speed, but only while going down at about 20 degrees. 

- I noticed that all you have to do to gain the full speed and force of a dive is to go vertical, no matter for how long. I think you should gradually gain speed while going down vertical, up to the max. So you can still achieve the same effect, but you have to dive from higher altitude.

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32 minutes ago, YoanY said:

IEven in pve i think it should be nerfed. But how would they nerf it while keeping the fun things about it? 

- reduce its hp and torpor (as a side effect it might make taming it without a cage easier, which I don't want, but maybe the AI can be set to run away sooner)

- make it more vulnerable to ranged weapons

- reduce it's base speed and rework how diving works. You should still be able to achieve the same sprint speed, but only while going down at about 20 degrees. 

- I noticed that all you have to do to gain the full speed and force of a dive is to go vertical, no matter for how long. I think you should gradually gain speed while going down vertical, up to the max. So you can still achieve the same effect, but you have to dive from higher altitude.

If anything it needs a STAM buff I never even really used them over Wyverns anyways. Who cares how much damage it does when you can get wyverns, rexs and gigas and certain sea creatures that all do comparable damage.

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3 minutes ago, ChargingParacerParacer said:

If anything it needs a STAM buff I never even really used them over Wyverns anyways. Who cares how much damage it does when you can get wyverns, rexs and gigas and certain sea creatures that all do comparable damage.

idk, i like that you have to plan ahead where you're going to land to recharge. Both wyverns and griffins have a very high damage special which takes lots of stamina, but can cross most of the map without recharging if you put some points into stam. Recharging stam is the only time you're really vulnerable. 

I think stamina shortage adds a lot of dameplay depth.

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*Shrug* There's a lot of creatures with good attack. I don't see the devs rushing to fix how rex's are pretty much the only creature to bring to boss fights, yammering on about how it will be better for diversity and performance and the excuses used for previous nerfs. 

Low stam just makes mounts garbage to use.

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34 minutes ago, YoanY said:

i agree that rexes are a bit too strong, but i guess the devs wanted them to be the king of dinos. A lot of people might be disappointed if the iconic t rex came out as weak. But at least they can't fly and are much slower than griffins and wyverns.

Its not even a T. Rex...... 

Anyway how is the rex too strong ? 

 

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16 minutes ago, AngrySaltire said:

Its not even a T. Rex...... 

Anyway how is the rex too strong ? 

 

It's the combination of high hp and dps. There are other dinos that can do as much damage but are either not allowed at bosses or have lower hp. Same for the ones with higher hp

If you compare them to other top end dinos like gigas, allo pack, spinos, sloths, trilobites, etc, rexes are less gimmicky so they come out on top in terms of pure combat power.

They're also one of the simpler things to get. Easy to kite on foot, most things don't attack them while downed, and scorpions are easy to tame for kibble. 

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39 minutes ago, AngrySaltire said:

Its not even a T. Rex...... 

Anyway how is the rex too strong ? 

 

It's THE go-to boss killer, and on big dinos like rexs there is no having to deal with their little gimmick dinos like microraptors. They have nerfed other dinos for the supposed sake of versatility. I just really doubt that Griffins are really such an unbeatable threat in pvp, just stratigize better and form a bigger group.

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4 hours ago, Kayin said:

lots of text

You also forgot the swipe attack that is stronger than divebomb and doesnt stop you from moving. Using normal attacks to kill troodons is wrong way to griffin:

(quick test Griffin with 241% melee on an unclaimed wyvern)
normal attack: 65
full divebomb: 361
swipe attack: 904

They also dont have bullet multipliers and no headshot multipliers, allow to shoot from the back and you dont fall if you are dismounted midair. And way too much HP even tho they are not much bigger than argents. On top of that they have perks of of Tapejara - strafe, flying backwards and a passenger seat.

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On 11/26/2017 at 11:49 PM, ForzaProiettile said:

As I and others have pointed out if something can only be countered by itself then it is obviously not balanced properly. Your argument is like that from the pre nerf Pteradon days where people would say just get your own Pteradon. That really is missing the entire point.

I have already countered this argument (in another thread), because your defense is fallacious. They created the dino, everyone can find them, and anyone can use one. There is nothing OP about a tool that everyone has access to, they just have to find it.

This is a similar kind of argument I run into when talking about Unreal Tournament back in the day. If all players have access to weapons and similar builds, then the only difference between them all is skill and experience. Complaining about losing a fight because someone knows how to use a weapon is just silly. Get your own and learn to use it too.

The very nature of the term OP assumes you do not have the ability to counter it, but you already said it can be countered by another Griffin, so you completely shot yourself in the foot when you made the argument.

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How are some of these people defending this thing, are you afraid of having your easy mode disabled? Grow up... 12k health is OP with of without a saddle.

Had a guy killing my passives from above my base, I shot him with my 150% compound bow in the head and he didn't even flinch because he had so much health that he wasn't bothered taking damage from me.

The griffin is just as OP as the entire map of Ragnarok. Feeding everybody resources.!

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18 hours ago, l4m3r said:

In Fact is the Griffins not made From WC itself made from the folk who made the Ragnork Map which is not close to finish. The whole Map is unbalanced and not finished  look at Pearl cave 17k Pearls in 10 Mins on offical without any enmy in the Cave. Look at the Spino Spawns ....... and and and... And the Griffin itelf is in the Game now yeah but its far away from balanced. A Bird who you can shoot From. A bird who makes the Most Dmg of all Dinos. The Bird with the most Hp. The Fastet Bird. So what else Dino is the best in all? They Nerved they Flyers because of a Reason and now we have the same poop bevore the Nerv...

Actually you are wrong. The ragnarok devs never created the Griffin. It was added to the ragnarok map by wild card when they made ragnarok an official map. The ragnarok devs created the ice wyvern, polar bears, ice worms, and lava golem but those were all basically resins of existing creatures, whereas the Griffin wasn't made by the ragnarok devs. (As has been mentioned numerous times on their streams)

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26 minutes ago, KingGalahad said:

Actually you are wrong. The ragnarok devs never created the Griffin. It was added to the ragnarok map by wild card when they made ragnarok an official map. The ragnarok devs created the ice wyvern, polar bears, ice worms, and lava golem but those were all basically resins of existing creatures, whereas the Griffin wasn't made by the ragnarok devs. (As has been mentioned numerous times on their streams)

Oh Really? That i dont know ! Thx for Info

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When this topic was started I had no strong opinion on the Griffin's balance. The people against a nerf in this thread have done a better job of convincing me that it's OP than the people supporting a nerf haha

 

9 hours ago, Probitas said:

...

 

So, you admit that the Griffin has the advantage over all other tames, and to you this is balanced. If all combat dinos were viable in their own way, provided that the player is skilled and knows how to use them, would you consider that to be imbalanced?

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A Poison Wyvern can oneshot anyone of their tame with one Poison breath, no matter what armor they have on.

And on top of that, you automatically harvest all of their loot.

I prefere those over a Griffin any day.

I think the Balance between Wyverns and Griffins is fine, I see both used a lot. All other Flyers should get a buff though. Stop  the nerfing.

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