Griffin Balance

[Lurtz]

1 minute ago, Dylan1602 said:

Yeah I can compromise and agree with you there sure! Passenger can shoot but only when hovering. Remove the ability of the rider to shoot all together but keep the passengers ability. I like that. 

and all it took was a little conversation! lol 

[Lurtz]

10 minutes ago, Matilda said:

O,..,O Is it really not that clear this is sarcastic/ an attempt to lighten the mood in this thread >.>

You're not very good at this whole thing it seems. 

[Lurtz]

5 minutes ago, Matilda said:

Oh boy calm down already.  I didn't come here to cause offense or cause friction.

Well, seeing as that's pretty much all you did with your attempt at being funny. 

My advice is to go with something a bit more absurd so people can see you're being sarcastic. 

 

I vote veggie cakes be toxic to griffins and make them explode into confetti. 

^literally anything would be preferable to what you put. 

Deal with the fact, that you weren't funny

And move on. 

[Dylan1602]

5 minutes ago, Lurtz said:

and all it took was a little conversation! lol 

Not difficult at all, we all have different view points that we can project to eachother and bounce ideas off of eachother until we come to some sense and agree on what we think would be best. 

[Matilda]

Just now, Lurtz said:

Well, seeing as that's pretty much all you did with your attempt at being funny. 

My advice is to go with something a bit more absurd so people can see you're being sarcastic. 

 

I vote veggie cakes be toxic to griffins and make them explode into confetti. 

^literally anything would be preferable to what you put. 

Deal with the fact, that you weren't funny

And move on. 

Please stop quoting me  i get it you don't find it funny. But please stop pinging me with notifications :L

[X111]

7 minutes ago, Matilda said:

Please stop quoting me  i get it you don't find it funny. But please stop pinging me with notifications :L

ok

[Stephania]

On 11/20/2017 at 11:23 PM, johnm81 said:

When a creatures best counter is itself ... By definition means its not balanced.

Make sense.

[Sup3riorArs3nal]

21 hours ago, Brayn said:

 

Quetz speed buff and stam buff plus the abolity to put 2 plants and 4 autos on the platform.

 

 

 Oh god please no. First of all fast quetzals are the most OP flyer of them all with the whole "can't be picked" thing. And having turrets on them was the single most OP thing in the game really.

 

21 hours ago, Brayn said:

Argies need the dive bomb and a touch more speed.

I agree with this. Particularly the dive. Not nearly as fast as the griffin and no damage multiplier but this would truly revitalize the Argen in a lot of ways

 

22 hours ago, Brayn said:

Pelagornis and Moth should be removed from the flyer nerf.  No one ever complained that the Pelagornis or Moth was too good at its role.

 Weren't you aware of the OP Pelagornis/Moth meta /sarcasm

 

2 hours ago, Lurtz said:

I think at the end of the day, we might need to accept the fact that this game will eventually begin to have ever more powerful fliers. 

It is significantly easier to tame a Ptera than it is to tame a Grif or raise a wyvern. 

It is significantly easier to tame a trike than it is to get a bronto. 

Might just be time to understand that this Raptor<Rex situation will always exist in this game

Some Dinos

Are just better than others

In any and everyway. 

Except Raptors are much quicker and more agile than Rexes. That's not to say the Raptor doesn't need tweaks and buffs (Not to compete with the Rex's niche, but to excel in its own). The only flyer niche the Griffin does not excel at is as a resource farmer (For which the quetz dominates and the argen at lower tiers).

 

 

 

 

[Lurtz]

26 minutes ago, Sup3riorArs3nal said:

 Oh god please no. First of all fast quetzals are the most OP flyer of them all with the whole "can't be picked" thing. And having turrets on them was the single most OP thing in the game really.

 

I agree with this. Particularly the dive. Not nearly as fast as the griffin and no damage multiplier but this would truly revitalize the Argen in a lot of ways

 

 Weren't you aware of the OP Pelagornis/Moth meta /sarcasm

 

Except Raptors are much quicker and more agile than Rexes. That's not to say the Raptor doesn't need tweaks and buffs (Not to compete with the Rex's niche, but to excel in its own). The only flyer niche the Griffin does not excel at is as a resource farmer (For which the quetz dominates and the argen at lower tiers).

 

 

 

 

I have never seen a raptor, nor pack of raptors win against a T-Rex. Is the plain truth lol

[metsfan92286]

On 11/20/2017 at 5:48 PM, LouSpowells said:

The best counter to Griffins is Griffins, even if only used as a distraction tactic. Griffins are in a good place balance wise, and despite their utility, they have enough weaknesses that a nerf/rebalance could very likely neuter them, and a whole bunch more people will start pretending like they quit Ark over it.

I'm not saying Griffins should be nerfed, but if you're saying the only counter to X is X, that basically means X is overpowered.  So I'm not sure if you made the point you wanted to make.  That's basically the reason gigas were nerfed a long time ago, when they had 80k+ health.  When a dino has no counter other than itself, it needs to be nerfed.

[Sup3riorArs3nal]

4 hours ago, Lurtz said:

I have never seen a raptor, nor pack of raptors win against a T-Rex. Is the plain truth lol

They aren't supposed to, that isn't their niche. Things are balanced when the Excel at or compete evenly with other things in a single role. Rex and Raptor occupy different niches and shouldn't be competing with each other. The Raptor competes with things like terror birds, wolves, sabers, etc and could still use some of that promised TLC. But to say the Griffin is ok to be unbalanced because not all land mounts can fight each other straight up is a terrible argument.

[LouSpowells]

2 hours ago, metsfan92286 said:

I'm not saying Griffins should be nerfed, but if you're saying the only counter to X is X, that basically means X is overpowered.  So I'm not sure if you made the point you wanted to make.  That's basically the reason gigas were nerfed a long time ago, when they had 80k+ health.  When a dino has no counter other than itself, it needs to be nerfed.

I never once said that Griffins are the only counter to Griffins. I said that the best way to kill a Griffin is by using another Griffin, and that I believe Griffins are balanced.

If you want to make the case that Griffins are imbalanced, then do it. But do it on your own merits rather than telling me that I said it. Anyway, this thread has turned into a piece of rotting garbage and the stench is making me sick. I'm out.

 

[Crows]

Griffins definitely are OP, but what really confuses and bugs me is how these things are added into the game without much thought of the consequences. 

I was watching a HOD video recently and he makes good points about why the Griffin is OP. Honestly baffles me why the flyers were nerfed then they added the Griffin lol. 

[AngrySaltire]

1 hour ago, Crows said:

Griffins definitely are OP, but what really confuses and bugs me is how these things are added into the game without much thought of the consequences. 

I was watching a HOD video recently and he makes good points about why the Griffin is OP. Honestly baffles me why the flyers were nerfed then they added the Griffin lol. 

 

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As not a PvP player I really cant comment on the PvP aspect. Been a while since i watched the video but I did love the part that griffins had more health than the quetzs. While i agree that that is stupid why not buff the quetz instead ? Its always nerf nerf nerf, never buff buff buff. But that's  just me being awkward.

As a PvEr (this is probably where the difference lies for me) i wouldnt nerf the griffin at all. In saying that I would reduce the aoe of the dive attack because its seems a bit too big but thats it. 

Also I would like to add the dive mechanic to all flyers (not nessesarily the attack and defiantly not the ground pound). Way more natural than the clunky flyer movement.

[FenTheReaper]

Allow people to be whipped off it and half its health and I'm good.  Maybe take its ability to pick and only allow it to pick things smaller than humans so its like a more limited ptera in that regard.

[ForzaProiettile]

On ‎23‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 4:55 AM, metsfan92286 said:

I'm not saying Griffins should be nerfed, but if you're saying the only counter to X is X, that basically means X is overpowered.  So I'm not sure if you made the point you wanted to make.  That's basically the reason gigas were nerfed a long time ago, when they had 80k+ health.  When a dino has no counter other than itself, it needs to be nerfed.

Yep and this sound logic doesn't just apply to ARK but to every multiplayer game that has ever existed. If X is only countered by X then by definition that is a clear maker it is not balanced. Another method is to look at the players and see what tools/weapons/dinos they most commonly use. If 99% of your players will opt for a particular gun despite many other guns being available then that is also another sign something isn't quite right. 

The Griffin is in need some of serious balancing "tweaks" to make sure its in line with both the spirit of the flyer nerf and with the general gameplay standards we expect of ARK.

[PuffyPony]

Just give it the projectile vulnerability shared by all other flyers. All ya need

[TheBanditKing]

Start by just getting rid of shootong on the back of a griffin. That just adds salt to the wound of how ridiculously OP Griffins are.

People sit abover your base really high up and just kill dinos. No risk, easy mode. Then nerfe dive attack damage, health or something. Just do something about them.

This game is pretty much dictated by griffins in combat situations.

[ForzaProiettile]

7 hours ago, TheBanditKing said:

Start by just getting rid of shootong on the back of a griffin. That just adds salt to the wound of how ridiculously OP Griffins are.

People sit abover your base really high up and just kill dinos. No risk, easy mode. Then nerfe dive attack damage, health or something. Just do something about them.

This game is pretty much dictated by griffins in combat situations.

Yep they really need a good balancing. Btw though you can sit on a quetz and snipe people's dinos as well, not sure if the Griffin is more stable though.

[ChargingParacerParacer]

Griffins can probably take strong damage from bullets or explosions but other than that they are useful creatures for fast travel and I would much rather keep it that way. 

[Orion]

They may be able to get a lot of Health if you pump many levels in to the stat, but you also have to remember that Griffins do not have a saddle, which means that they lose even the 25% damage reduction from a primitive saddle.
 

As for the not being able to whip them off, that's straight up false. I've whipped many people off their Griffs.

[Drinkinthepink]

On 2017-11-20 at 1:58 PM, ForzaProiettile said:

I've been engaged in a lot of combat over the last 2 months both big and small and what I've noticed as foot soldier in these raids is that when it comes to air supremacy and taking out ground targets swiftly the Griffin is the go to dino. It seems to have no real weakness. It has a large health pool, its fast, you can shoot from it, you can't be whipped off it and it's attacks are very powerful especially its dive attack.

In short it seems to be almost like a pre nerf flyer in many respect. A lot of advantages with few disadvantages. There is no hard counter to this dino like there is for many other dinos. It is a jack of all trades and a master of most.

Which brings me up to my final point - is it balanced? I have to say from what I've seen it doesn't seem to be. The fact that you rarely see other flyers in battles these days, (even the mighty wyren is a rare sight) seems to be a good indicator that it definitely needs some tweaking in the balance department. If 90% of players are using one dino over the others then its a pretty good indicator that its not balanced properly.

It is the most common griefing Dino, and for combat, but every dino has their uses. I see pteras picking and wyverns dropping.

while I agree that griffins are OP as f, I do have to clarify that you can indeed whip a griffin rider.

[ForzaProiettile]

We had a terrific scrap tonight defending a server on behalf of a client. It was mostly an air battle in which our side's Griffins fought theirs. Really not much diversity, everything else got quickly shredded. On several occasions some of their Griffins breezed right past our turrets as if nothing was there. The turrets were firing like mad but the thing hardly took any damage.

I talked with some of the pilots from the fight and even they admitted its pretty much Griffin or dead these days in the air. The other air dinos like the Argent and Pteradon are outclassed. The Quetzal still has use but it's largely at the mercy of the Griffin if not properly defended by other Griffins.

[Probitas]

On 11/20/2017 at 3:58 PM, ForzaProiettile said:

I've been engaged in a lot of combat over the last 2 months both big and small and what I've noticed as foot soldier in these raids is that when it comes to air supremacy and taking out ground targets swiftly the Griffin is the go to dino. It seems to have no real weakness. It has a large health pool, its fast, you can shoot from it, you can't be whipped off it and it's attacks are very powerful especially its dive attack.

In short it seems to be almost like a pre nerf flyer in many respect. A lot of advantages with few disadvantages. There is no hard counter to this dino like there is for many other dinos. It is a jack of all trades and a master of most.

Which brings me up to my final point - is it balanced? I have to say from what I've seen it doesn't seem to be. The fact that you rarely see other flyers in battles these days, (even the mighty wyren is a rare sight) seems to be a good indicator that it definitely needs some tweaking in the balance department. If 90% of players are using one dino over the others then its a pretty good indicator that its not balanced properly.

Get your own Griffin and engage in an air battle. Seriously, do you know zero history of war at all? (pro tip, diving attack works on flyers too)

What it sounds like you are asking is for an airplane to be turned into a jeep. People fly because air superiority wins wars, the ground pounders just hold ground.

[ForzaProiettile]

11 hours ago, Probitas said:

Get your own Griffin and engage in an air battle. Seriously, do you know zero history of war at all? (pro tip, diving attack works on flyers too)

What it sounds like you are asking is for an airplane to be turned into a jeep. People fly because air superiority wins wars, the ground pounders just hold ground.

As I and others have pointed out if something can only be countered by itself then it is obviously not balanced properly. Your argument is like that from the pre nerf Pteradon days where people would say just get your own Pteradon. That really is missing the entire point.