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Griffin Balance


ForzaProiettile

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I've been engaged in a lot of combat over the last 2 months both big and small and what I've noticed as foot soldier in these raids is that when it comes to air supremacy and taking out ground targets swiftly the Griffin is the go to dino. It seems to have no real weakness. It has a large health pool, its fast, you can shoot from it, you can't be whipped off it and it's attacks are very powerful especially its dive attack.

In short it seems to be almost like a pre nerf flyer in many respect. A lot of advantages with few disadvantages. There is no hard counter to this dino like there is for many other dinos. It is a jack of all trades and a master of most.

Which brings me up to my final point - is it balanced? I have to say from what I've seen it doesn't seem to be. The fact that you rarely see other flyers in battles these days, (even the mighty wyren is a rare sight) seems to be a good indicator that it definitely needs some tweaking in the balance department. If 90% of players are using one dino over the others then its a pretty good indicator that its not balanced properly.

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WC can balance whatever they want for pvp, but in pve I'd like it to stay as it is.

It's a fun mount, finally something to steal wyvern eggs with, or even kill singke wyverns, pick up new players, traders, or people that spawned on the wrong server. Great for fast travel, I was able to save my tribemates and tames several times when they dcd somewhere far away, and I wouldn't have been on time with other fliers. It's great for building because it can move sideways, has a handbrake unlike the tape, and you can stand on it's back. I don't want to miss out on any of it's features.

It has already been "fixed" once.

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Please for the love of God don't nerf the griffin lol. Funnest flyer to fly. Could do with updating the other flyers to have the same characteristics such as speeding up on the dive and gliding. Griffin looks so natural in flight, would love to see the argy or ptera etc with the same grace in flight as the griffin does. 

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The best counter to Griffins is Griffins, even if only used as a distraction tactic. Griffins are in a good place balance wise, and despite their utility, they have enough weaknesses that a nerf/rebalance could very likely neuter them, and a whole bunch more people will start pretending like they quit Ark over it.

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1 minute ago, LouSpowells said:

Did you read that in a fortune cookie or something? Because it sounds a lot like fortune cookie logic.

 

Almost every game that actually cares about balance adopts some variation of a paper rock scissors system where one element counters another and is countered by the other. SC2 for example: If roaches were so strong that nothing could counter them effectively other than everyone converting to zerg and building lots of roaches as well, that would be a very IMbalanced system.

Not fortune cookie logic, just actual logic.

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7 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

Almost every game that actually cares about balance adopts some variation of a paper rock scissors system where one element counters another and is countered by the other. SC2 for example: If roaches were so strong that nothing could counter them effectively other than everyone converting to zerg and building lots of roaches as well, that would be a very IMbalanced system.

Not fortune cookie logic, just actual logic.

Are you now suggesting that Griffins are the only way to kill Griffins?

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10 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

0.o

I'm referring to: 

1 hour ago, johnm81 said:

Almost every game that actually cares about balance adopts some variation of a paper rock scissors system where one element counters another and is countered by the other. SC2 for example: If roaches were so strong that nothing could counter them effectively other than everyone converting to zerg and building lots of roaches as well, that would be a very IMbalanced system.

Not fortune cookie logic, just actual logic.

You stated that when something is "so strong that nothing could counter them effectively" it needs to be nerfed due to imbalance. I'm asking you if you are making the argument that Griffins are so strong that nothing can counter them effectively.

"Best" does not mean "Only." The use of "best" in and of itself indicates that there is competition, which there most certainly is. Are you trying to prove to me that "best" means "only" now?

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30 minutes ago, LouSpowells said:

You stated that when something is "so strong that nothing could counter them effectively"

 

34 minutes ago, LouSpowells said:

"Best" does not mean "Only."

Indeed... 

2 hours ago, johnm81 said:

When a creatures best counter is itself ... By definition means its not balanced.

 

The SC2 was an example. But it was you who made the case for imbalanced properties when you stated:

5 hours ago, LouSpowells said:

The best counter to Griffins is Griffins

Even if you didn't realize it at the time.

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Dude, what in god's name are you arguing? I said, quite simply, that the best way to counter a Griffin was a Griffin. Are you now saying that my saying it proves that Griffins are overpowered and need to be nerfed? There's no need to twist yourself up with all these mental gymnastics displays.

If you want to say that you think Griffins are over powered, make the argument. I'll listen to your opinions and share my own, but this "what you think proves that what I think debunks what you think" garbage isn't going anywhere I'm willing to follow.

EDIT: And why the hell are you going at me anyway? Spite? Because there's a thread on the same page begging for a Griffin buff...comparatively, wasting your time on someone who is neither for nor against a nerf/buff is kind of pointless.

Oh, and @johnm81 since I didn't quote. 

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I gonna go fishing and say that a full speed griffin attack as about 400 base damage . Combine this with the fact that they are the only flyer with battle mounted. Also the fact that there AOE pick is 5 time bigger than a ptera. The fact that they can get really tanky too. 

 

-No ground mount can fight a griffin, they are the strongest flyer again ground mount since there only weakness is the fact that they dont ascend quickly as the ptera and the wyvern. But this can be countered by preparing speed and ascending up.

- The fact that if you fight a griffin with any other flyer than a griffin you need luck to win and a large amount of luck that is. 

 

 

I recommend

- Drop the base damage with full speed to 80 to 100

-Remove battle mount

-Reduce the right click pick aoe by 50 %

-Reduce there health gain per lv 

 

When those change take effect able breeding 

 

The people that say griffin are fine are benefiting from the current imbalance that the griffin give and probably have lots of griffin . They also dont want them to be nerf to the ground. I understand the intention but it still hypocrisies.  Basic psychologie 

 

Image result for Hypocrite

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Can't see where griffins are that OP.

Low carry weight, low health. low melee compared to an imprinted Wyvern/Argent.  Griffin can't be bread and I haven't used the breed mod(s) to keep it from being OP.  Wyvern is faster at standard flight and has a special.  In fact, I've got a full cluster and the 100% imprinted wyverns are my go-to flyer on every 1 of our servers.

No nerf needed as far as I'm concerned.

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14 minutes ago, Esquire1980 said:

Low carry weight, low health. low melee compared to an imprinted Wyvern/Argent

Trolling or no knowledge of the current state of the game 

-Health can get to 30 k

- Base damage when full speed about 400 damage, aoe of the damage is about as big as a giga attack.

-Left pick aoe is the biggest in the game. 

Image result for Hypocrite

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11 minutes ago, Carcajou said:

Trolling or no knowledge of the current state of the game 

-Health can get to 30 k

- Base damage when full speed about 400 damage, aoe of the damage is about as big as a giga attack.

-Left pick aoe is the biggest in the game. 

Image result for Hypocrite

Maybe no knowledge of your server set-up, but I've got Wyverns at 45K health and 1900+ melee.  None of our griffins would even think about such numbers.

While I'm sure my servers settings are not the same as your playing on, any NERF coming from WC will affect EVERY server out there.  WC gives us the ability to counter just about everything in server settings.  If you believe grifs are OP, change your settings.

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1 hour ago, Esquire1980 said:

Maybe no knowledge of your server set-up, but I've got Wyverns at 45K health and 1900+ melee.  None of our griffins would even think about such numbers.

While I'm sure my servers settings are not the same as your playing on, any NERF coming from WC will affect EVERY server out there.  WC gives us the ability to counter just about everything in server settings.  If you believe grifs are OP, change your settings.

 

am playing on Official i dont think this is going anywhere but anyway i was talking about the base damage not the melee btw. No one care about your server setting when you are able to change the stats yourself. Like complaining about the flyer nerf when you play on a Non-official pre-flyer nerf.

I already said what i tough about the people who oppose the idea of a griffin nerf on official.

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11 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

 If 90% of players are using one dino over the others then its a pretty good indicator that its not balanced properly.

if 90% of players are using this one dino over others then I'd say the odds are pretty balanced?

and generally its threads like this that has caused all the up roar with the flyer and giga nerfs so thanks for making the game a toddlers play ground.

a few brief weeks on PVP and our tribe have found that spiders, Xplants, chylo's and Y plants are pretty effective at taking out griffins. poison wyverns on turret mode just add to air control.

please stop suggesting a nerf to an already nerfed game

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22 minutes ago, X111 said:

if 90% of players are using this one dino over others then I'd say the odds are pretty balanced?

and generally its threads like this that has caused all the up roar with the flyer and giga nerfs so thanks for making the game a toddlers play ground.

a few brief weeks on PVP and our tribe have found that spiders, Xplants, chylo's and Y plants are pretty effective at taking out griffins. poison wyverns on turret mode just add to air control.

please stop suggesting a nerf to an already nerfed game

if 90% of players are using this one dino over others then I'd say the odds are pretty balanced? 

 

Image result for lol

WAIT YOU BELIVE THAT IF PEOPLE USE EVERY DINO IN THE GAME TO PVP , ITS NOT BALANCED ?

also if i follow your train of tough i believe  that we should remove 90 % of pvp dino since no one use them. Let me push this argument even further beyond the realm of "The Hypocrisy" i would say if 100 % of the player use griffin THE GAME IS FULLY BALANCE! OMG SO INTELLIGENT!

E=GRIFFIN Image result for einstein

 I might be able to believe you if i never pvp with/again griffin but i do so i just dont and i have a fully functional brain also 

You guys are in the same group that were saying that Ptera were ok Pre-Nerf when they were able to deal with any ground mount and be the most easiest to tame and breed. 

History always repeat itself.

 

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