Turrets 2: Electric Boogaloo (Or, what are we actually doing?)

[BOSSSS]

Don't do the nerf it's just not good and if they are actually going to do it atleast make it so there can be variations between plant x and auto turrets like u can have 100 auto turrets and 100 plant x in the same radius. I think it is crazy to limit it to 100 turrets including plant X and auto turrets. Making silly patches like these are ruining the game making it easier to get raided which is something no one wants

[natman]

2 minutes ago, benreel said:

what about removing the ability to place c4 and shoot rockets while riding dinos?     The fact that you can get on a stego,   walk up  to a wall of 500 turrets,  place c4 and walk way is broken AF.   

Yes.

[CobraD]

15 minutes ago, natman said:

I am a bit disappointed that you chose the easy route of fighting symptoms again instead of working on the causes It will be only a matter of time until the next symptoms show up, because the design of the game has become self destructive.

So what would you propose they do to fix this without having to or a limit on turrets?

[natman]

39 minutes ago, CobraD said:

So what would you propose they do to fix this without having to or a limit on turrets?

I am not against the limit for turrets, it might actually be quite interesting for pvp. I just dont like what steps they want to take to keep pvp balanced despite the turret limit.

I have suggested the following in TheRightHands first thread regarding the topic

First of all, thanks for reaching out to us with this important background information!

I think your decisions and additions of the past have led to the game becoming self destructive in respect to perfomance and gameplay (increased rates, key resources being way easier to get in the environment and especially through tames (beaver, snail, frog, penguin, dung beetle, quetz) and unlimited server transfers have led to the formation of huge server locking tribes/alliances with insane bases covered in turets from top to bottom). We have reached a point, where changes need to be made.

But the complaints are justified, the announced changes will make bases too easy to raid for what it takes to build them up and what they are meant to protect. The slot and damage increase wont make up for this. And i repeat what others here have said, if you make these changes, you have to make a rebalance of the related mechanis at the same time.

I think it would benefit the game much more if the reasons why people built so many turrets were adjusted:

• lower dino hp
• more turret hp/different ammo types
• C4 cant be stuck onto dinos anymore and rockets cant be fired while riding a creature anymore
• the big mess of unbalanced bonuses, buffs and debuffs gets straightened (imprinting, mate boost, yuty, consumables, resistances...)
• tribe and alliance size gets limited
• maybe even limit transfers

[ShinDude]

All this stuff going on about turrets only prove one thing. And that thing has been known my many of us for a very long time.

As we all know WC had a REALLY good idea and concept of a game. And they nailed it. I mean, really, who would not like this dino stuff? It was SO cool and we all kept playing.

But somewhere along the line someone got hybris. A bad case of it. Stuff got added and added, bugs and glitches ignored and so on. And no thought was ever given to how it would work together. And WC actually call this a finished and released product today... Not EA, but finished!

So, what is this most of us know already?  WC is not capable of developing their awsome concept in to a proparly working product. Excuses keep being made of why, but fact remains. If money is the issue, then start with monthly fees.

I know i've been critical before and certain mods here will frown on my post. Today I'm still logging in now and then on SP or some unofficial with mad mods just to get a laugh.

 

Anyways, to be fair. I did love the game and I thank WC for the +4K hours I spent in it. But it's really sad to see you ruin it the way you are.

[Evil9t]

10 hours ago, Natas666 said:

100 is overkill though. Making it 200 - 400 would reduce lag and keep base defence alive. Its called finding the sweet spot. Making it 100 will make lag better but make bases impossible to defend. 200-400 would reduce lag but not by as much but also make it possible to defend your base. Ask the players which one they prefer

You can Not bring such an huge diffrence in the game after people grindet out so much for there bases it dosent matter if its 100 or 300 per 10k units its an fact that this change will Brake the Game and they WILL lose 40-60% of there main pvp Players! The thing is that tue Most people dont want an turret nerf people have These huge bases bc they grind dir it so Let them have These huge bases and there turrets. #NOTIRRETLIMIT

[DarthaNyan]

33 minutes ago, CobraD said:

So what would you propose they do to fix this without having to or a limit on turrets?

well, limit on turrets will happen one way or another regardless.

But there is another aspect of gameplay that is taxing and have never been resolved: big structures/walls. Common suggestion for the last 2 years has been to make 2x2 variants of walls, foundations and ceilings with appropriate cost and higher hp (lets say 5x cost and double the normal wall's HP). Both server and client will have to render and track WAY LESS structures making bases load/render faster.

[ooStuStu]

Surely that sweet spot for allowable turrets in the 10k units ... will be around 300 ... this will be way less than the 1000's being used now and with the new "Heavy Turret" and vanilla turret buff ..combined with some tanker nerfs and C4, rocket use from the saddle we will see the performance increase the devs are looking for

[TheZohan]

Lag will be significantly lower when most of the player base rage quits i'm sure

 

[romanaka3]

If you make new turets that have more dmg you shoud able to craft them with old turets like if dmg is x4 normal than you need 4-5 old turets to craft them for ammo same
Also i think turet limit wont fix lag cause ppl gona take down turets and put them on new turet towers and that means same turet cound will be on server

[Rofelo]

So if the turret is roughly 4X stronger and costs 4X as much, will it have a different ammo or use 4 bullets per shot?

[BaldBudgie]

Thanks for this info. 

If 100 4xdamage turrets isnt enough to protect your base, you've chosen a poor spot to build a base. 

[ooStuStu]

10 minutes ago, Rofelo said:

So if the turret is roughly 4X stronger and costs 4X as much, will it have a different ammo or use 4 bullets per shot?

Most likely it will

[DinoMinions]

So I have been reading a lot of these threads and I have some questions.

What happened in October? Because we had mass turrets in Ragnarok before October. We had even more turrets on our legacy Center base, why wasnt the lag bad then? How come I can go on my non legacy Island server and it runs like a dream? 

I just watched a video today where 4 bred stegos wiped a base with 100 turrets in under 5 minutes. Are you aware of what will happen Dec 5th or 6th? Entire servers will be wiped just for the sheer ability for people to do it with so little loss of tames. Not just little tribes, but enormous tribes as well. 

And do you know how they will rebuild? Small bases spread all over a greater distance of the map with 100 turrets per building. So instead of a one big one, people are already starting to build 10 smaller buildings around their base all just outside that 33 foundation area. And again turrets will be the problem. Along with fewer spots for new tribes to build because the big tribes have the ability to take the land they need to accomplish this. 

Have you all actually played this scenario on one of your machines? Have you tested this theory? Maybe made a copy of a server with a lag problem and then maybe wage war to see how easy things will be to wipe?

And I hope that you werent thinking about cutting the tame count because I have already figured out that I am going to have to try bronto and rex walls and I hatched 30 rexs this weekend and 25 brontos just for this purpose. Im sure that wont help the lag either. 

Off to breed more... Thanks.

 

[CavemanKurgan]

I have never recommended this before for any tribe, however this tribe "wildcard" is going too far with this. someone should inside them.

 

[DarthaNyan]

14 minutes ago, DinoMinions said:

I just watched a video today where 4 bred stegos wiped a base with 100 turrets in under 5 minutes. Are you aware of what will happen Dec 5th or 6th? Entire servers will be wiped just for the sheer ability for people to do it with so little loss of tames. Not just little tribes, but enormous tribes as well. 

Stegos will get a kick in the plates as well.

And this advance warning is for tribes to prepare: build turret towers on all drop spots, obelisks and around spawn areas (not blocking or instakilling bobs, but to make their starter life as hard as possible) and purge the map from all possible threats so raiders cannot setup Fob immediately. Its unfun, borderline within the rules, but better safe than sorry.

[DinoMinions]

1 minute ago, DarthaNyan said:

Stegos will get a kick in the plates as well.

Has this happened on PC yet? 

[DarthaNyan]

13 minutes ago, DinoMinions said:

Has this happened on PC yet? 

I suggest to re-read the first post of this thread again without skipping anything.

[Ranger1]

22 minutes ago, DinoMinions said:

We had even more turrets on our legacy Center base, why wasnt the lag bad then?

At a guess I'd say it probably had something to do with the other two instances running on your server at that time.  You may have been the only instance that was running with thousands of turrets at that point in time, and that may have changed recently.

Let me emphasis though, that is only a guess.

[ooStuStu]

5 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

At a guess I'd say it probably had something to do with the other two instances running on your server at that time.  You may have been the only instance that was running with thousands of turrets at that point in time, and that may have changed recently.

Let me emphasis though, that is only a guess.

with all the 2x events and Rag having so many resources the proliferation of turrets is a natural progression of players learning what works .... mega turret towers work ...so we built more and bigger turret walls

[Ranger1]

3 minutes ago, ooStuStu said:

with all the 2x events and Rag having so many resources the proliferation of turrets is a natural progression of players learning what works .... mega turret towers work ...so we built more and bigger turret walls

Indeed, so now the task becomes to provide a viable way to provide effective (but not overpowered) defense without killing server performance to do it.  Turret number restrictions in a given area are likely to remain a thing (it's surprising it took this long to become part of the game), but other options shouldn't really be all that hard to implement.  The Heavy turrets, along with some tweaks to existing turrets, should go a long way.  Fiddling with things like Stego plates and veggie cakes has been a work in progress lately anyway, so they might need a few more adjustments before the dust settles as well.

By the end of this process I think the game (on the PVP defense side, and the lag side) will be in a much better place than it previously was.

[ooStuStu]

4 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

Indeed, so now the task becomes to provide a viable way to provide effective (but not overpowered) defense without killing server performance to do it.  Turret number restrictions in a given area are likely to remain a thing (it's surprising it took this long to become part of the game), but other options shouldn't really be all that hard to implement.  The Heavy turrets, along with some tweaks to existing turrets, should go a long way.  Fiddling with things like Stego plates and veggie cakes has been a work in progress lately anyway, so they might need a few more adjustments before the dust settles as well.

By the end of this process I think the game (on the PVP defense side, and the lag side) will be in a much better place than it previously was.

agreed ... i think that sweet spot will be around 250 to 300 turrets in the 10k unit area with the buffs, nerfs and new Heavy turret

 

[JB4222]

If turrets are causing a large portion of the lag I can get behind this update with some tweaks. It seems like your team has been listening and willing to make changes to make this work. Adding the improved turret along with some of the other changes should help make this work.

I would recommend looking at how people blow turrets/towers with C4. In the current build, it is much better to have more turrets with less ammo than it is to have full ammo with less turrets. This is because it is easier to blow entire towers with a few C4 than it is to sit and soak them. Having more angles and more alpha helps to counter this. 

The way I see it is that it needs to be more difficult to C4 turrets/towers so that you will have to do more soaking. A few ways This could be accomplished.

1) Turret knockback on players and tames to make it harder to approach the turrets. This currently is handled by the plant x slow to some extent but since plants will be so limited by the cap there needs to be an alternative such as turret knockback.

2) Reduce the damage C4 does to turrets and/or structures.

3) Increase the hitpoits of turrets/structures

4) Remove the ability to throw C4 from tames such as the stego

If this update reduces a lot of the lag and you can offer some solutions that this turret cap creates I think this could be a good change for the game.

Thanks for listening.

[Inigo]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

[Hobgobblin247]

7 hours ago, DLCProphet said:

GUYS TO MAKE FULLY BALANCED GAME VS DEFENSE SYSTEM I PROPOSE 1 THING WHICH ACTUALLY IS SO BROKEN

 

GENERALLY :

 

*** DELETE POSSIBILITY TO ADD LVL POINTS TO MOVEMENT SPEED FOR DINOS / PLAYERS ***

*** ALL SHIELDS WOODEN / METAL SHOULD BE NOT ABBLE TO BLOCK BULLETS FROM TURRETS BECAUSE ITS GONNA TRIGGER WITH FIRST ISSUE ***

 

YOU WONDER WHY ? WELL LET ME ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

 

AFTER 2 YEARS OF PLAYING ONLY IN OFFICIAL PVP SERVERS IVE SEEN ALOT OF PLAYERS PUMPING ALOT POINTS INTO MOVEMENT SPEED WHICH ACTUALLY IS BROKEN AGAINST DEFENSES WHEN :

- BIG MOVEMENT SPEED CHARACTER IS FASTER THAN FASTEST DINO IN GAME (FUNNY THING WHEN A DEFENDER / ATTACKER IS TRYING TO CATCH SOMEONE AND YOU JUST RUN AWAY OR WELL MORE TELEPORT OUT FROM HIS EYES)

- SHIELDS CAN TAKE INSANE AMMOUNT OF BULLETS FROM TURRETS BECAUSE OF DURABILITY WHICH IS TRIGGER WITH MOVEMENT SPEED ON CHARACTER BECAUSE U CAN EASY OUTRUN TURRETS OR GET CLOSER TO THEM WITH USING SIMPLE SHIELD AND ALOT OF MOVEMENT. BIG DURABILITY OF ARMOUR AND SHIELDS PROVIDE U PERFECT DEFENSE FROM DMG WHICH IN TOTAL GIVING U CHANCE TO COME CLOSER TO TURET TAKE OUT ROCKET LAUNCHER AND SIMPLE MAKE BOOM -.- THIS THING IS VISIBLE ON ALL RAIDS / DEFENSES MADE BY STREAMER WHEN THEY RUN LIKE "FLASH" AND NO BODY I POSSIBLE TO CATCH THEM / KILL OR SOMETIMES WITH BIG PINGS IN SERVER THEY JUST COME TO YOUR TURRET BEFORE HE WILL SPOT YOU AND START SHOTTING.

- SO AS FAR I KNOW AND SEEN TO MAKE ALL WORTH NOW WITH LOW AMMOUNT OF TURRETS WE NEED TO DELETE THAT POSSIBILITY WITH ADDING MOVEMENT POINTS BECAUSE TURETS WONT DEFEND THEMSELFS FROM THIS. I DID THIS ALOT OF TIMES BY MYSELF WITH RUNNING INTO TURRETS AND BLOW THEM UP WITHOUT LAGS. SO I THINK THIS SHOULD BE ALSO FINISHED AND BALANCED. (SAME LIKE WITH FLYERS THEY GOT NERFED SPEED WHICH BRING HUGE BALANCE INTO GAME. ITS TIME TO MAKE SAME WAY WITH PLAYERS AND LAND / WATER DINOS).

 

I HOPE LIKE SOMEONE WILL SEE SOME SENSE ON THAT AND MAKE SIMPLE + TO IT VISIBLE FOR DEVELOPERS AND MAYBE THEY WILL THINK ABOUT THIS ASWELL. IF THEY WANT BRING BALANCED WE HAVE TO START CHANGE STUFF FROM LOWER GRADES IN CASE IF SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN.

We all get what you wanted to say but the caps hurt my eyes..