Turrets 2: Electric Boogaloo (Or, what are we actually doing?)

[Balsac]

Thanks for finally really talking to the community and keeping everyone in the loop with what's going on! Big improvement. 

[ooStuStu]

9 minutes ago, Meshi said:

It's not enough for what .. which tactic you mean? Because if you are pointing at stego tactic it was written above that they will change stego plate invisible barrier. Or you mean different tactic?

 the tactic of the announcement ...low balling us with 100 ..to see the reaction ...because they will most likely have to up that to around 200 or 300 for the 10k area  even with all the buffs and nerf mentioned ... a large base is large to house your stuff and the amount currently being proposed will be spread too thin to cover in most cases 4 sides

 

[Crows]

1 hour ago, DarthaNyan said:

what if i told you

that "over the top" is bare necessity?

That's the problem, it was, and that speaks volumes on how weak standard turrets were/are. 20% damage increase isn't good either, knock-back would help a lot though.

[waterKeeper]

@TheRightHand 

I have a question. Does a powered down turret affect server performance? And I'm on console so how does the 100 limit work; do all turrets in the area that exceed the limit shutdown or do 100 stay active and everything over shut down?

 

What I'm getting at is a suggestion to allow " backup turrets" that are in a powered down state (like genetators) that will come online if the 100 active turrets start to fail. But they can occupy that same space as the 100. Idk if this helps.

[Meshi]

Just now, ooStuStu said:

 the tactic of the announcement ...low balling us with 100 ..to see the reaction ...because they will most likely have to up that to around 200 or 300 for the 10k area  even with all the buffs and nerf mentioned ... a large base is large to house your stuff and the amount currently being proposed will be spread too thin to cover in most cases 4 sides

 

Well, that 100 is not final number but number counted from server ticks we know since first Right Hand topic. That isn any secret.That isn't any secret.

[ooStuStu]

4 minutes ago, Meshi said:

Well, that 100 is not final number but number counted from server ticks we know since first Right Hand topic. That isn any secret.That isn't any secret.

who said it was a secret ... i don't get what you are saying ... i am only trying to inform the chicken Littles of the ARK world that the sky is not falling... so relax

[Glerian]

24 minutes ago, ooStuStu said:

Yeah i would have to agree that the 100 ... even with the new Heavy turret will not be enough .. i would say 100 of each would be enough.... if properly placed but those with bases that need 360 degree protection are screwed

You know that you can change configuration, right? You guys are assuming that with the new limits and new turrets that you still have to build the same old way, and you don't. There ARE ways to squeeze in as many turrets as possible, getting the maximum amount of coverage. You really can't say how the limit will affect you without being able to test it either way so nothing is definitive. But I would say that, for me, I will gladly accept this change and try to make it work to my advantage. And with the size of my base, 35 foundations is more than enough to put 100 turrets covering each side.

Instead of stacking them ON the base, why not have them separate and covering the side? What about the oft cited turret tower, seems like you could stack 4 of them in a 35 foundation square AROUND your base, giving you plenty of coverage, and then make another ring of turrets above you base, just out of reach of those other turrets. I mean, really, the possibilities are endless, you just have to use your noggin and think of a  system that works for you inside of this framework. You aren't limited to JUST 25 turrets on a side.

[waterKeeper]

2 minutes ago, ooStuStu said:

 the tactic of the announcement ...low balling us with 100 ..to see the reaction ...because they will most likely have to up that to around 200 or 300 for the 10k area  even with all the buffs and nerf mentioned ... a large base is large to house your stuff and the amount currently being proposed will be spread too thin to cover in most cases 4 sides

 

I disagree, there's way too much stuff on ark servers, a limit like this is good, the timing is just horrendous lol. This should have happened a year ago or more, and then more turret types added and balanced. It should be like any rts game or tower defense game, with a better selection of defenses. Like in chess, there's only a handful of pieces, but tons of strategy. Having thousands of pawns (auto turrets) is honestly lame and tedious. Causes lag, time snk,  and building frustrations to name a few. I could of told u this the 1st time i found a big base in ark and the game stalls or u even dc.

[Seanhastaco]

Please just disable c4 being able to be thrown off back of stegos 

[Crows]

4 minutes ago, waterKeeper said:

I disagree, there's way too much stuff on ark servers, a limit like this is good, the timing is just horrendous lol. This should have happened a year ago or more, and then more turret types added and balanced. It should be like any rts game or tower defense game, with a better selection of defenses. Like in chess, there's only a handful of pieces, but tons of strategy. Having thousands of pawns (auto turrets) is honestly lame and tedious. Causes lag, time snk,  and building frustrations to name a few. I could of told u this the 1st time i found a big base in ark and the game stalls or u even dc.

Exactly. This should have happened long ago, but... better late than never.

[Crows]

1 minute ago, Seanhastaco said:

Please just disable c4 being able to be thrown off back of stegos 

That should also be taken into consideration, since players can simply pick a stego & its rider up with a wyvern and drop them ontop of a base. Job done. Don't want to have to lag the server up even more by building giant sky-box-reaching hatch frame towers to prevent just that either. 

[Meshi]

6 minutes ago, Seanhastaco said:

Please just disable c4 being able to be thrown off back of stegos 

That and rocket launchers.

[qagadon]

nerf stego spikes

nerf saddles weird relationship with auto turretts

i have my official certificate of donkey brains, anyone else?

[HalfSlabBacon]

3 hours ago, TheRightHand said:

Our dedicated servers cap out in the worst cases at 13-14 GB each. I don't know what could be causing your servers to be requiring that much per user, but even at 70 players maxed out our servers sit at about 13-14 GB of RAM.

 

Well, like @invincibleqc said, I'm modded... Approx 40 per server. I also run at 125% dino spawns and use the increased memory code you guys implemented for better performance. Blows my mind those factors can make that much of a difference.

3 hours ago, invincibleqc said:

Probably mods?

Lol... Maybe that's half the cause right there.

2 hours ago, BigRad said:

True that. I run a box with more than twice as many instances on a cluster, with 20 mods and the RAM barely goes over 32GB even with 60+ people on. That's great official servers run with at least 4ghz on the modern processors, but as you said the numbers are being crunched through 1-2 cores at a time. When all of those players get on and start adding calculations the only thing that will allow the numbers to be crunched in-time to avoid the client lag waiting for the server to finish the calcs... higher frequencies. My 4.7-5ghz game server doesn't even give the clients lag during worldsaves or big raids... unless the client has networking delays. Server FPS and server ping stay low through basically all of it and we don't ever lag out to a crash. A bigger population can surely cause more calcs and issues but 4.0ghz is barely a game server. Its sure better than less than 4.0ghz, but I remember servers I've had before with 4.0 and below and even with a small population the rubberbanding was frequent. 4.5 and above I see as the minimum frequency needed to deal with the code you guys have set forth to have a smooth performance. NVMe drives could help, too. I just hope official fanboys wake up like I did to see the enjoyment to be found in the unofficial server list.

Good to know! I'm building a new box soon so I'll keep the added CPU thoroughput in mind. You using Zeons?

I Get like no rubber banding on a 3.8 with the high RAM usage set, raw sockets, and multi core networking forced. Mind you, there's never more then like 20 on a server at a time (cap is 32). I found the single core networking is what causes the rubber banding on my rigs. 

[wesley0444]

7 hours ago, MapleRush said:

These are great suggestions, and definitely a good step in the right direction. The only thing that I don't see addressed here is how you guys came to the conclusion that 100 turrets/ 10 000 units is the number needed to balance player experience with server performance. I worry about this number because I recall that the flyer nerf was initially overdone on purpose and then slowly buffed back to a manageable level. Due to the long-term implications that this turret change will have on the game, I just want reassurance that you guys have tested more lenient limitations before jumping to this number, rather than simply using this as a starting point. If you can't confidently say that this is the right combination, then please consider an initial iteration that looks to preserve the player experience, and then limit from there if need be. Really hoping that you at WildCard can truly collaborate with the community to come to a compromise on this.

Would be a lot better to move from 100 to 125 than from 125 to 100. If after 5 guys from my tribe rearrange 2k turrets if we have to do it a second time we would be pretty salty.

[DLCProphet]

GUYS TO MAKE FULLY BALANCED GAME VS DEFENSE SYSTEM I PROPOSE 1 THING WHICH ACTUALLY IS SO BROKEN

 

GENERALLY :

 

*** DELETE POSSIBILITY TO ADD LVL POINTS TO MOVEMENT SPEED FOR DINOS / PLAYERS ***

*** ALL SHIELDS WOODEN / METAL SHOULD BE NOT ABBLE TO BLOCK BULLETS FROM TURRETS BECAUSE ITS GONNA TRIGGER WITH FIRST ISSUE ***

 

YOU WONDER WHY ? WELL LET ME ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

 

AFTER 2 YEARS OF PLAYING ONLY IN OFFICIAL PVP SERVERS IVE SEEN ALOT OF PLAYERS PUMPING ALOT POINTS INTO MOVEMENT SPEED WHICH ACTUALLY IS BROKEN AGAINST DEFENSES WHEN :

- BIG MOVEMENT SPEED CHARACTER IS FASTER THAN FASTEST DINO IN GAME (FUNNY THING WHEN A DEFENDER / ATTACKER IS TRYING TO CATCH SOMEONE AND YOU JUST RUN AWAY OR WELL MORE TELEPORT OUT FROM HIS EYES)

- SHIELDS CAN TAKE INSANE AMMOUNT OF BULLETS FROM TURRETS BECAUSE OF DURABILITY WHICH IS TRIGGER WITH MOVEMENT SPEED ON CHARACTER BECAUSE U CAN EASY OUTRUN TURRETS OR GET CLOSER TO THEM WITH USING SIMPLE SHIELD AND ALOT OF MOVEMENT. BIG DURABILITY OF ARMOUR AND SHIELDS PROVIDE U PERFECT DEFENSE FROM DMG WHICH IN TOTAL GIVING U CHANCE TO COME CLOSER TO TURET TAKE OUT ROCKET LAUNCHER AND SIMPLE MAKE BOOM -.- THIS THING IS VISIBLE ON ALL RAIDS / DEFENSES MADE BY STREAMER WHEN THEY RUN LIKE "FLASH" AND NO BODY I POSSIBLE TO CATCH THEM / KILL OR SOMETIMES WITH BIG PINGS IN SERVER THEY JUST COME TO YOUR TURRET BEFORE HE WILL SPOT YOU AND START SHOTTING.

- SO AS FAR I KNOW AND SEEN TO MAKE ALL WORTH NOW WITH LOW AMMOUNT OF TURRETS WE NEED TO DELETE THAT POSSIBILITY WITH ADDING MOVEMENT POINTS BECAUSE TURETS WONT DEFEND THEMSELFS FROM THIS. I DID THIS ALOT OF TIMES BY MYSELF WITH RUNNING INTO TURRETS AND BLOW THEM UP WITHOUT LAGS. SO I THINK THIS SHOULD BE ALSO FINISHED AND BALANCED. (SAME LIKE WITH FLYERS THEY GOT NERFED SPEED WHICH BRING HUGE BALANCE INTO GAME. ITS TIME TO MAKE SAME WAY WITH PLAYERS AND LAND / WATER DINOS).

 

I HOPE LIKE SOMEONE WILL SEE SOME SENSE ON THAT AND MAKE SIMPLE + TO IT VISIBLE FOR DEVELOPERS AND MAYBE THEY WILL THINK ABOUT THIS ASWELL. IF THEY WANT BRING BALANCED WE HAVE TO START CHANGE STUFF FROM LOWER GRADES IN CASE IF SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN.

[wesley0444]

I hope the new turret fire rate isn't too high. Durring huge official raids the turret rate of fire seems to be hard capped to something lag based, possible the server tick rate which I think can get as low as 1 FPS. A lot of the time the turrets will all get in sync with eachother shooting about 1 shot per second, just part of having A lot of turrets. So if the new turret gets it's DPS from fire rate like 10 RPS I'm afraid it real application effectiness may be not that great since it could get limited to the same as other turrets.

 

Wesley

[Dylan1602]

23 minutes ago, Glerian said:

Instead of stacking them ON the base, why not have them separate and covering the side? What about the oft cited turret tower, seems like you could stack 4 of them in a 35 foundation square AROUND your base, giving you plenty of coverage, and then make another ring of turrets above you base, just out of reach of those other turrets. I mean, really, the possibilities are endless, you just have to use your noggin and think of a  system that works for you inside of this framework. You aren't limited to JUST 25 turrets on a side.

What is your plan when a stego gets dropped onto your roof and blows its way in without any problem at all? Or when a turtle gets dropped on your roof? Having turret towers on the edge of the 35 foundation perimeter will be useless... They will not even reach your base. 25 turrets each side would get completely soaked by 1 or 2 stegos, maybe 1 bronto... 

And what is your plan for protecting all of the wyverns people have? The gigas? The rex's? 100 turrets will never, ever, ever cover a dino pen to store these. And if they're not put in a dino pen, they get sniped by griffin riders who sit on render edge out of range of turrets so whats the plan here? Unprotected dinos that in some cases take 2 weeks to raise and imprint just being killed by griefers. Now tell us 100 turrets is enough.

[ooStuStu]

4 minutes ago, Dylan1602 said:

What is your plan when a stego gets dropped onto your roof and blows its way in without any problem at all? Or when a turtle gets dropped on your roof? Having turret towers on the edge of the 35 foundation perimeter will be useless... They will not even reach your base. 25 turrets each side would get completely soaked by 1 or 2 stegos, maybe 1 bronto... 

And what is your plan for protecting all of the wyverns people have? The gigas? The rex's? 100 turrets will never, ever, ever cover a dino pen to store these. And if they're not put in a dino pen, they get sniped by griffin riders who sit on render edge out of range of turrets so whats the plan here? Unprotected dinos that in some cases take 2 weeks to raise and imprint just being killed by griefers. Now tell us 100 turrets is enough.

that is why i laughed at his comment ... he has no clue

[invincibleqc]

7 minutes ago, DLCProphet said:

GUYS TO MAKE FULLY BALANCED GAME VS DEFENSE SYSTEM I PROPOSE 1 THING WHICH ACTUALLY IS SO BROKEN

 

GENERALLY :

 

*** DELETE POSSIBILITY TO ADD LVL POINTS TO MOVEMENT SPEED FOR DINOS / PLAYERS ***

*** ALL SHIELDS WOODEN / METAL SHOULD BE NOT ABBLE TO BLOCK BULLETS FROM TURRETS BECAUSE ITS GONNA TRIGGER WITH FIRST ISSUE ***

 

YOU WONDER WHY ? WELL LET ME ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

 

AFTER 2 YEARS OF PLAYING ONLY IN OFFICIAL PVP SERVERS IVE SEEN ALOT OF PLAYERS PUMPING ALOT POINTS INTO MOVEMENT SPEED WHICH ACTUALLY IS BROKEN AGAINST DEFENSES WHEN :

- BIG MOVEMENT SPEED CHARACTER IS FASTER THAN FASTEST DINO IN GAME (FUNNY THING WHEN A DEFENDER / ATTACKER IS TRYING TO CATCH SOMEONE AND YOU JUST RUN AWAY OR WELL MORE TELEPORT OUT FROM HIS EYES)

- SHIELDS CAN TAKE INSANE AMMOUNT OF BULLETS FROM TURRETS BECAUSE OF DURABILITY WHICH IS TRIGGER WITH MOVEMENT SPEED ON CHARACTER BECAUSE U CAN EASY OUTRUN TURRETS OR GET CLOSER TO THEM WITH USING SIMPLE SHIELD AND ALOT OF MOVEMENT. BIG DURABILITY OF ARMOUR AND SHIELDS PROVIDE U PERFECT DEFENSE FROM DMG WHICH IN TOTAL GIVING U CHANCE TO COME CLOSER TO TURET TAKE OUT ROCKET LAUNCHER AND SIMPLE MAKE BOOM -.- THIS THING IS VISIBLE ON ALL RAIDS / DEFENSES MADE BY STREAMER WHEN THEY RUN LIKE "FLASH" AND NO BODY I POSSIBLE TO CATCH THEM / KILL OR SOMETIMES WITH BIG PINGS IN SERVER THEY JUST COME TO YOUR TURRET BEFORE HE WILL SPOT YOU AND START SHOTTING.

- SO AS FAR I KNOW AND SEEN TO MAKE ALL WORTH NOW WITH LOW AMMOUNT OF TURRETS WE NEED TO DELETE THAT POSSIBILITY WITH ADDING MOVEMENT POINTS BECAUSE TURETS WONT DEFEND THEMSELFS FROM THIS. I DID THIS ALOT OF TIMES BY MYSELF WITH RUNNING INTO TURRETS AND BLOW THEM UP WITHOUT LAGS. SO I THINK THIS SHOULD BE ALSO FINISHED AND BALANCED. (SAME LIKE WITH FLYERS THEY GOT NERFED SPEED WHICH BRING HUGE BALANCE INTO GAME. ITS TIME TO MAKE SAME WAY WITH PLAYERS AND LAND / WATER DINOS).

 

I HOPE LIKE SOMEONE WILL SEE SOME SENSE ON THAT AND MAKE SIMPLE + TO IT VISIBLE FOR DEVELOPERS AND MAYBE THEY WILL THINK ABOUT THIS ASWELL. IF THEY WANT BRING BALANCED WE HAVE TO START CHANGE STUFF FROM LOWER GRADES IN CASE IF SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN.

All caps walls are so unpleasant to read that I stopped at half of it. However, they already nerfed speed by half and also prevented players from mind wiping infinitely so I think that aspect is quite balanced now. As for shield, if you remove their ability to tank bullets... they becomes a weighted annoyance.

[ooStuStu]

also prevented players from mind wiping infinitely

Whach you talkin about Willis?

[Olivar]

1 minute ago, ooStuStu said:

also prevented players from mind wiping infinitely

Whach you talkin about Willis?

On official servers you can mindwipe once per level.
After that it's no dice anymore.

[invincibleqc]

4 minutes ago, ooStuStu said:

also prevented players from mind wiping infinitely

Whach you talkin about Willis?

You are now restricted to 1 mindwipe per levelup on official servers. You can no longer mindwipe, add all speed, speedrun/troll some turrets and then mindwipe back to your regular setup. You need to be smart because once at level 100, you can mindwipe once and then you have to ascend and at level 115 your character stats cannot be changed anymore. EDIT: Like @Olivar also said ^.

[Meshi]

Also flashes are heavily using lagging as their advantage. I wonder if  plant species Y, traps, purlovias,microraptos and dilos cant counter it.

[isu]

I hope you also plan to improve/boost Tek turrets. They should be way stronger than normal turrets (even stronger than these new turrets) for their upkeep and bullets.