Turrets 2: Electric Boogaloo (Or, what are we actually doing?)

[ciabattaroll]

1 minute ago, thedattrigga said:

yes, and like most people are saying, it’s definitely a step in the right direction, but the vast majority of their player base does not want this update, the youtubers such as jayex who helped build this game are against it, they should hold back on it for a little bit atleast and make more gradual steps towards this update instead

It's not exactly against human nature to react negatively to something that they perceive as a negative change. A sizable, noticeable portion of responses against this change aren't complaining about getting an improvement on their server's performance, they're reacting negatively to having turrets being limited in quantity. It's at the ridiculous point where people are saying they'd rather wallow in laggy muck than not have their turrets, even though right here in this very thread developers are trying to work with the players to bring in changes to (hopefully) off-set the turret changes so that come the 5th, players can have the coverage and protection they used to have while having better framerate.

[BigRad]

25 minutes ago, TheRightHand said:

Our dedicated servers cap out in the worst cases at 13-14 GB each. I don't know what could be causing your servers to be requiring that much per user, but even at 70 players maxed out our servers sit at about 13-14 GB of RAM.

 

True that. I run a box with more than twice as many instances on a cluster, with 20 mods and the RAM barely goes over 32GB even with 60+ people on. That's great official servers run with at least 4ghz on the modern processors, but as you said the numbers are being crunched through 1-2 cores at a time. When all of those players get on and start adding calculations the only thing that will allow the numbers to be crunched in-time to avoid the client lag waiting for the server to finish the calcs... higher frequencies. My 4.7-5ghz game server doesn't even give the clients lag during worldsaves or big raids... unless the client has networking delays. Server FPS and server ping stay low through basically all of it and we don't ever lag out to a crash. A bigger population can surely cause more calcs and issues but 4.0ghz is barely a game server. Its sure better than less than 4.0ghz, but I remember servers I've had before with 4.0 and below and even with a small population the rubberbanding was frequent. 4.5 and above I see as the minimum frequency needed to deal with the code you guys have set forth to have a smooth performance. NVMe drives could help, too. I just hope official fanboys wake up like I did to see the enjoyment to be found in the unofficial server list.

[invincibleqc]

On 11/20/2017 at 5:18 AM, MandaBear said:

So basically 33.5 high and then the 67 width from side to side? I apologize if the question is stupid, but I'm having a hard time visualizing the space. 

Keep in mind that you would also need to elevate 33.5 foundation high (5,000 units) if you wanted to build a second floor with turrets on top.

On 11/20/2017 at 5:20 AM, thedattrigga said:

yes, and like most people are saying, it’s definitely a step in the right direction, but the vast majority of their player base does not want this update, the youtubers such as jayex who helped build this game are against it, they should hold back on it for a little bit atleast and make more gradual steps towards this update instead

Unfortunately, the reality is that turrets are too expensive for the servers. If you didn't read the first thread, there it is:

TheRightHand gives actual number on what bases with thousands of turrets are costing in resources and are just ruining everyone else experience just so some alphas can play the princesses in their turret towers. The new turret that they will add, will be stronger resulting into same DPS but costing the cost of a single regular turret which will optimize the servers for everyone.

[BigRad]

Absolutely horrible demonstration. Get a mod that allows you to put the auto turrets at 5x dmg to represent the heavy turrets, and switch out 25 of them for tek turrets, then put 100 more turrets all around each side of the outside limit(should be round not square), then nerf the resistance of the stegos(as the devs have stated they will) and lets see that raid again.... Not saying the result is going to be that great, but still much better than that dramatized crap. This game is based extremely loosely on reality and that makes me think the turrets should melt targets better. If I ever run a server with the turret limit i would buff them all 10x probably and that meta will likely be better than official meta.

[DarthaNyan]

59 minutes ago, invincibleqc said:

I'm a bad teacher, but you can see a visual representation on ThickFreedom's channel:

in that video turrets are at ground level and that is the worst setup to come up against direct stego assault. Had they all been elevated 2-3 walls higher - riders could have taken more damage and probably required several attempts. Also turrets were set to tames instead of players.

@TheRightHand

Make 100 turret limit separate for Autoturrets(normal and new beefy ones), Plants and TeK. So the limit is 300 for all 3 combined, but no more than 100 of each kind.

Gryphons still in a dire need of a HP nerf and removal of rider's ability to shoot from it (why have tapejaras when there is gryphon that can do it all and then some more?).

[invincibleqc]

8 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

in that video turrets are at ground level and that is the worst setup to come up against direct stego assault. Had they all been elevated 2-3 walls higher - riders could have taken more damage and probably required several attempts. Also turrets were set to tames instead of players.

Oh, I was just pointing out the "size" of 10k units. Was not recommending such defenses.

[Olivar]

45 minutes ago, BigRad said:

Absolutely horrible demonstration. Get a mod that allows you to put the auto turrets at 5x dmg to represent the heavy turrets, and switch out 25 of them for tek turrets, then put 100 more turrets all around each side of the outside limit(should be round not square), then nerf the resistance of the stegos(as the devs have stated they will) and lets see that raid again.... Not saying the result is going to be that great, but still much better than that dramatized crap. This game is based extremely loosely on reality and that makes me think the turrets should melt targets better. If I ever run a server with the turret limit i would buff them all 10x probably and that meta will likely be better than official meta.

Unless wildcard forces this NOBODY is going to decommission their turrets willingly.
Why reduce your turret count when you can have 1000 turrets that are 5x stronger.

 

[DarthaNyan]

22 minutes ago, invincibleqc said:

Oh, I was just pointing out the "size" of 10k units. Was not recommending such defenses.

Well, you can place more turrets in that video's red zone - the author put 33 foundations distance from the sides of the base without taking into account that turrets on his base are spread. The actual "no turret build zone" is 5 foundations closer on each side and if presented properly - it is not as intimidating and allows for some turret towers placing.

I still think that individual "no turret build zone" around each turret would have been a better solution - at least you would have been able to make several floors of turrets to defend each side of the base and the roof.

[Pendrodor]

the 100 turret limit is total BS even if the new turret would be 10x stronger than normal oen then its still not enough  I dont know if they are stupid that they cant see it and understand it Wildcard would surerly need some cleaning of their dev team and hiring new ppl that can come up with normal ideas not just promising-delaying-promising-delaying they swore that they wont wipe legacy servers instead they found a way how to force ppl to go to new servers they made sure legacy servers will be dead servers so nobody would stay there and would be forced to go play on new servers=LEGACY WIPE then they promised full release it was delayed like 4 times and then it was aberration delayed so many times so I cant even count it then there was charity stream ppl were donating I myself donated 400 dollars and now they planning to totally ruin this game but why should they care about our opinions right we already bought the game they got the money from us already PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER WILDCARD AND START LISTENING TO PLAYERS THAT PLAY THE GAME,AFTER ALL THE GAME IS HERE FOR US NOT FOR YOU 

[Mendoza]

Could we get higher tier structure BP's like higher health for walls and perhaps higher tier BP's for turrets as well with this update?

[ausYenLoWang]

18 minutes ago, Olivar said:

Unless wildcard forces this NOBODY is going to decommission their turrets willingly.
Why reduce your turret count when you can have 1000 turrets that are 5x stronger.

 

because wildcard are decomisioning them

on the 5th EVERY turret over the 100 will be switched off

[Toni]

5 hours ago, Heliastein said:

Release the new turrets before the 5th december patch so people can actually prepare for it....

+1

The HUD indicator only makes people angry because many of them doesn't read infos like this here.

We need before 5. Dec --> HUD indicator /  New Turrets / Option to set the limit higher than 100 (100 is not enough for private servers because we don't have as heavy performance problems like you have on the officials) / S+ Mod update to support this new feature  (And no...we do not want the half-implementation into vanilla your working on --> Most people will still use the mod because we want ALL the features of the mod).

 

 

[Weiss]

5 hours ago, Olivar said:

Thank you for the update and incorporating some of the feedback that was provided between all the salt!

However:

Please be very careful about touching the veggie cakes!
They are currently the only viable means of getting Therizinosaurs to take on bosses and dragons depending on the difficulty.
Reducing their powers will set back ALOT of people because of the increased losses they will sustain.

Sorry to say this, but the whining of the PvP about the cakes does not warrant the destruction of boss fights in PvE.
If you change the cakes, then you need to change the boss fights and their damage mechanics

That was my first thought/fear too.

More nerfs for pve because of pvp? yay

[Crows]

Thank you for finally considering a new, heavier turret to help with base defence. I've been wanting more offensive (but defensive) structures for a long while now because I was never a fan of turret stacking gameplay, despite having to play that way myself. 

Like others have mentioned, it would be awesome if we could get ahold of the new turret before the 5th of December update, but I personally hope that the new turret isn't too expensive for small/average-sized tribes, and not cheap like the current auto-turrets. 

Also, I find it funny how people are hating on WildCard for only promoting positive changes (performance this time.) If anybody is to blame, it's the tribes who went over the top with turrets in the first place. "They should just get better servers!!" is easy to say. 

If this change is enough to make you quit, good. I won't miss your enormous, lag-infested base. 

[DarthaNyan]

1 minute ago, Crows said:

If anybody is to blame, it's the tribes who went over the top with turrets

what if i told you

that "over the top" is bare necessity?

[rororoxor]

"BobCorp Automated Laterally Attenuated Nano-Cell Electronic Defense"

"BALANCED"

I see what you did there...

[Dylan1602]

This will break the game. Yes server performance is a huge issue that needs to be addressed and it is good to see the devs doing something about it and actively working towards it but this just completely eliminates all of the work large tribes have grinded for. Yes I agree like the majority of the fan base that megatribes are the worst thing on ark because they literally cannot be touched. But this 100 turret limit is going to effect everyone all the way down to medium tribes. 

Like I've said before ark is a game of grind and be rewarded. Ark is what you make of it. But this literally removes 50% of what people spend the majority of their time grinding for because we don't want to be walked over and start over and over again. We build the defenses to survive. If we lose all of these defenses then raiders will steamroll a base if you don't have anyone online in a matter of an hour or two. 

A good suggestion I heard is limit 1 turret to be able to be placed on a structure? Or don't allow turrets to be placed within a certain radius of one-another. This would stop the spam of turrets which was stated before as being the problem. You won't be able to load 15+ turrets onto a giant metal hatchframe, or spam them across ceilings. If the radius approach is used, you cant spam them on the floor either (Not sure I've ever seen anyone do this anyway). 

I just don't want everyone's hard work completely going to waste and having 100s upon 1000s or turrets just sitting in vaults because they cant be used. 

[Meshi]

4 minutes ago, rororoxor said:

"BobCorp Automated Laterally Attenuated Nano-Cell Electronic Defense"

"BALANCED"

I see what you did there...

I didn't see that until you point at it.

[Hawk69]

New turret is a good step in right direction... but I believe everyone will agree with me... 5x dmg boost is just not nearly enough if limit stays at 100... 25 turrets on each side of base including plants is just not enough... if you would place only new autoturrets it would have similar dps and 125 turrets on each side of base ... and that is just not enough to stop any kind of serious raid attempt, raiders will still be able to break your base in matter of minutes.

Open up that 100 turret limit for negotiation, make some sort of poll, and see witch number people could live with.

In my opinion, what I could live with is somewhere around 500... so 100 new x5 turrets on each side + 25 plantX on each side of base... It is still not greatest defense, but it's something I could personally live with... and just to mention I am solo player on active PVP server, and in 2 months or so I already got like 1500 turrets in place on my base... don't even wanna think what mega tribes can accomplish in this time frame, some probably have like 10-20K or in extreme cases 100K+ turrets, and that is where the problem is.

anyway... 100 is a joke... it has to be boosted up to some reasonable number that both us players and you devs could live with.

 

[invincibleqc]

17 minutes ago, Meshi said:

I didn't see that until you point at it.

I didn't spot that either, what a genius name.

[ooStuStu]

8 minutes ago, Hawk69 said:

New turret is a good step in right direction... but I believe everyone will agree with me... 5x dmg boost is just not nearly enough if limit stays at 100... 25 turrets on each side of base including plants is just not enough... if you would place only new autoturrets it would have similar dps and 125 turrets on each side of base ... and that is just not enough to stop any kind of serious raid attempt, raiders will still be able to break your base in matter of minutes.

Open up that 100 turret limit for negotiation, make some sort of poll, and see witch number people could live with.

In my opinion, what I could live with is somewhere around 500... so 100 new x5 turrets on each side + 25 plantX on each side of base... It is still not greatest defense, but it's something I could personally live with... and just to mention I am solo player on active PVP server, and in 2 months or so I already got like 1500 turrets in place on my base... don't even wanna think what mega tribes can accomplish in this time frame, some probably have like 10-20K or in extreme cases 100K+ turrets, and that is where the problem is.

anyway... 100 is a joke... it has to be boosted up to some reasonable number that both us players and you devs could live with.

 

Yeah i would have to agree that the 100 ... even with the new Heavy turret will not be enough .. i would say 100 of each would be enough.... if properly placed but those with bases that need 360 degree protection are screwed

[Pommer]

Just make homing rocket auto turrets a thing that would do enough damage to stop the whingers 

[ooStuStu]

If you think about it ... it is the same physiological tactic they used during the flyer nerf ... Ruin everything and then bring it back slowly to an optimal/livable end state. So telling us we will only get 100 and then actually moving that up to 300 or so will make us feel like we got something when they probably already planned to give us a higher number from the start ... Even someone who does not play but just has knowledge of the game knows 100 in a 10k unit area is not realistic

[Meshi]

14 minutes ago, ooStuStu said:

Yeah i would have to agree that the 100 ... even with the new Heavy turret will not be enough .. i would say 100 of each would be enough.... if properly placed but those with bases that need 360 degree protection are screwed

It's not enough for what .. which tactic you mean? Because if you are pointing at stego tactic it was written above that they will change stego plate invisible barrier. Or you mean different tactic?

[invincibleqc]

10 minutes ago, ooStuStu said:

If you think about it ... it is the same physiological tactic they used during the flyer nerf ... Ruin everything and then bring it back slowly to an optimal/livable end state. So telling us we will only get 100 and then actually moving that up to 300 or so will make us feel like we got something when they probably already planned to give us a higher number from the start ...

Oh, definitely. They used the same approach for PvE tribe limit. They advertised 400 and then pushed 500. This is nothing new for Wildcard.