Turrets 2: Electric Boogaloo (Or, what are we actually doing?)

[powerstuck]

14 hours ago, Olivar said:

Sorry to say this, but the whining of the PvP about the cakes does not warrant the destruction of boss fights in PvE.
If you change the cakes, then you need to change the boss fights and their damage mechanics

Just like the whining of the PvP about flyers resulted in everyone being penalized...you know they will either go 0 to 100 or do nothing.

 

[DraculaAlive]

14 hours ago, ciabattaroll said:

I get your concern about coverage, but their concern is on server performance/framerate. With that in mind I don't see how telling them to let you spam turrets helps fix their concerns.

Do you even play this game (pvp) ?   100 turrets is nothing. I've made 100 in a single day and it barely covers a SMALL base even with them spread out.

The worst thing about this and the flyer nerf is that they always take things too far and never actually balance the game. We aren't surviving the ark, we're surviving the developer's poor choices. I mean there are very few dino I'm afraid of now, the few I do fear are the one's that dismount you like microraptors, purlovia, etc but by and large few people use them for base defense because they die VERY fast. I mean I tamed/bread 100 max level microraptors & purlovia's on an alt account thinking they could stop the stego meta and they all died regardless of their health/melee mutations. Things like pure melee dragons on turret mode that hit 1k+ damage on the other hand definitely has prevented more then a few offline raids and there should definitely be more improved meta's like that for dinos as a valid base defense. 

They need some kind of serious buff so the game isn't player versus structure/turrets and is a more comprehensive defense strategy.  

I'm a programmer and trust me these devs have countless things they need to rewrite for memory management alone (which is sad) but especially for graphics. The game is literally more taxing then crysis and most graphics cards struggle to even get 30fps. Moreover this patch by their own words, improves things from 1fps to 4fps. That's a modest improvement for a huge nerf. If the nerf improved things to guarantee 30fps on consoles and low end graphics cards during raids, then I don't think people would be as mad but it really doesn't improve things that significantly (if you read the whole thing).

More importantly this isn't in beta/alpha anymore and they need to stop treating it like it is. Act like a professional game studio already and finish ragnarok and ark aberration (completely) before slap some paint on a hole...

[TheNeoReaper]

Will flyers be looked at again now. Being turrets are the reason they got nerfed?

[Inigo]

10 minutes ago, TheNeoReaper said:

Will flyers be looked at again now. Being turrets are the reason they got nerfed?

Probably not. The first speed nerf was because people had birds pushing 300% and were outrunning turrets, so they nerfed base speed. So what did people do? Breed bloodlines that let them outrun turrets again, resulting in the big nerf a lot of people hated. This turret fix isnt about birds, it's about people having massive quantities of turrets to counter the insane tanking capabilities of certain dinos.

[JioJay]

Have you guys actually listened to your fans? This isn’t the change they want.  If lag fro, turrets is a problem, then it’s probably because of the hatch frame. There never was lag back when turrets used catwalks and playing ark. This update will still cause lag and just kill pvp and probably Ark when you think about it. Pve servers are very laggy and since you can’t destroy strcuctures, you can’t build. If you want to prevent lag then how about you do these fixes to your game.

1. Fix you under meshing problems. They lag the game by loading unnecessary textures and even Dinos that are glitched. 

2.  Stop running over 100 Servers on one box. It’s too many servers for Nitrado to handle unless they split the servers. 

3. The bosses have a glitch where if your not doing the bosss fight you can still see the health bar. After some testing Imfound that you can move boss areas to other separate servers that can only be accessed through obelisk. That way the game doesn’t load their unecessary textures.

4. Keep optimising your game 

 

[Mendoza]

2 hours ago, JB4222 said:

If turrets are causing a large portion of the lag I can get behind this update with some tweaks. It seems like your team has been listening and willing to make changes to make this work. Adding the improved turret along with some of the other changes should help make this work.

I would recommend looking at how people blow turrets/towers with C4. In the current build, it is much better to have more turrets with less ammo than it is to have full ammo with less turrets. This is because it is easier to blow entire towers with a few C4 than it is to sit and soak them. Having more angles and more alpha helps to counter this. 

The way I see it is that it needs to be more difficult to C4 turrets/towers so that you will have to do more soaking. A few ways This could be accomplished.

1) Turret knockback on players and tames to make it harder to approach the turrets. This currently is handled by the plant x slow to some extent but since plants will be so limited by the cap there needs to be an alternative such as turret knockback.

2) Reduce the damage C4 does to turrets and/or structures.

3) Increase the hitpoits of turrets/structures

4) Remove the ability to throw C4 from tames such as the stego

If this update reduces a lot of the lag and you can offer some solutions that this turret cap creates I think this could be a good change for the game.

Thanks for listening.

To help against speed + shield / c4 placement type tactics...  I think we need one more type of turret....    A Flame Thrower Turret   (It should have a short range but does heavy damage and ignores armour)

[dillonboi08]

15 hours ago, ciabattaroll said:

 

For far too long the community hasn't really bothered to extend their hand on this so-called compromise though. People keep complaining about pillars, Wildcard tries to do something about it, then players go and look for ways around the fixes they do for pillars. Players complain about servers hitting tame caps, Wildcard implements limitations, and players go and start making alt tribes or dumping their dinos off on other servers, perpetuating the problem. For a person from the community preaching about compromises you'll have to pardon me for being jaded on that as I've yet to see where the players actually do partake in this alleged compromise.

Wowza. This right here seems to be something that has hit a nail right on the head sealing my coffin. Im sure there is more though being this is just the first page. These problems right here seem to be a lot concerning PVE. Now let me think about this Turret issue. Is this Turret issue a PVE problem? Oh no its not. Alright so Dino cap I can see that is the only thing that PVP might have a problem with. Well theres a thing called Kibble. We need kibble to reach all Dino goals so we have to mass produce kibble. There is the problem with a dino cap. We've been asking for a kibble solution. There is no PVP server that is Dino capped, We literally kill dinos constantly so I dont think I need to address that comment. Now the whole turret compromise, as PVP Players are talking about how much they dont want this, and everyone is saying they would rather there be performance issues instead of Turret limit. Doesnt that make the Dev's job easier? We dont want turret cap, Why dont we want turret cap? Well you see if we dont have Turrets in the MASSES Stegos drop bases. Solo Bronto pushes drop bases. This is quite ridiculous that you guys are treating us like we dont play the game. 90% of the people on this thread are PVE nerds I see appreciating this. My island server my tribe and I play on doesnt have terrible ping unless we are under attack, then it can become quite laggy with all the ruckus we are causing but 1 server restart and thats fixed. Now my ragnarok server. We have 3 huge bases on. 255 ping constantly. All 3 are the same size as the one on the Island. So maybe try to optimize Ragnarok instead of literally watching all my hard work go down the drain. All my friend's hard work go down the drain. Optimize. please just optimize Rag and see if it gets better instead of taking our 2000 turrets on a building down to 100. We cant store the gigas in a base that small? I got 91% imprint on my giga, I missed hours of sleep cause I love this game. Its a shame to see the Devs to flush it down the toliet and now I'm watching a Volunteer Mod disrespect something I wish the devs consider? I got 4k hours on this game, own it on 3 different accounts, and you my friend are pin pointing things we have had to do to work around other aspects of the game they didnt consider and bring up 3 points I dont see valid with PVP Servers? Come on dude show some respect. Do you even play PVP?

[dillonboi08]

So since my last post was more of a rant. I see a lot of points in here that are really good. But it seems more of PVE players keep flooding into this conversation? like why? This has absolutely nothing to do with them. December 5th is literally the downfall of PVP Official. It will last for maybe a month after this update and after that no one will have a base. 135 tamed brontos with a decent roll with become the tanks. Bases will be destroyed, Caves will be the the only way to live for a short term with layers of turret walls in the correct distance. Its all gonna be a mess. Stop the Turret nerf and go back to the drawing board please, I beg you, Ive been with this game since day 1. But this will kill the game on official. Your servers will drain down to nothing with the guys Ive spent over the years playing the game with or against. 

[fdolan2001]

I think Dinos should be made easier to use in base defence in place of turrets like if there was a way you could set a radius a Dino would not leave even if it was on enable wandering or neutral\aggressive and someone was leading it away

[ciabattaroll]

30 minutes ago, dillonboi08 said:

Wowza. This right here seems to be something that has hit a nail right on the head sealing my coffin. Im sure there is more though being this is just the first page. These problems right here seem to be a lot concerning PVE. Now let me think about this Turret issue. Is this Turret issue a PVE problem? Oh no its not. Alright so Dino cap I can see that is the only thing that PVP might have a problem with. Well theres a thing called Kibble. We need kibble to reach all Dino goals so we have to mass produce kibble. There is the problem with a dino cap. We've been asking for a kibble solution. There is no PVP server that is Dino capped, We literally kill dinos constantly so I dont think I need to address that comment. Now the whole turret compromise, as PVP Players are talking about how much they dont want this, and everyone is saying they would rather there be performance issues instead of Turret limit. Doesnt that make the Dev's job easier? We dont want turret cap, Why dont we want turret cap? Well you see if we dont have Turrets in the MASSES Stegos drop bases. Solo Bronto pushes drop bases. This is quite ridiculous that you guys are treating us like we dont play the game. 90% of the people on this thread are PVE nerds I see appreciating this. My island server my tribe and I play on doesnt have terrible ping unless we are under attack, then it can become quite laggy with all the ruckus we are causing but 1 server restart and thats fixed. Now my ragnarok server. We have 3 huge bases on. 255 ping constantly. All 3 are the same size as the one on the Island. So maybe try to optimize Ragnarok instead of literally watching all my hard work go down the drain. All my friend's hard work go down the drain. Optimize. please just optimize Rag and see if it gets better instead of taking our 2000 turrets on a building down to 100. We cant store the gigas in a base that small? I got 91% imprint on my giga, I missed hours of sleep cause I love this game. Its a shame to see the Devs to flush it down the toliet and now I'm watching a Volunteer Mod disrespect something I wish the devs consider? I got 4k hours on this game, own it on 3 different accounts, and you my friend are pin pointing things we have had to do to work around other aspects of the game they didnt consider and bring up 3 points I dont see valid with PVP Servers? Come on dude show some respect. Do you even play PVP?

Congratulations on being the exact point I was making. You're too mired in this thought of "the stegos! muh base!" that you're not even giving a crap about the rest of the community to realize this change is being done to improve performance. Given that in this very thread you're seeing one of the lead developers flat out state that they've been collecting feedback and will be implementing changes that should allow for people to have those performance increases while still having the relative comfort of their bases being covered, it should be a slam dunk. But again, you're too stuck on your base being accosted by others to realize that this change should be a win for all, you just refuse to compromise.

[dillonboi08]

5 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Congratulations on being the exact point I was making. You're too mired in this thought of "the stegos! muh base!" that you're not even giving a crap about the rest of the community to realize this change is being done to improve performance. Given that in this very thread you're seeing one of the lead developers flat out state that they've been collecting feedback and will be implementing changes that should allow for people to have those performance increases while still having the relative comfort of their bases being covered, it should be a slam dunk. But again, you're too stuck on your base being accosted by others to realize that this change should be a win for all, you just refuse to compromise.

Pretty disrespectful for a Volunteer mod still. Arent you suppose to represent Wildcard? What do you play PVP or PVE come on answer the question this time. Youre right Im not going to compromise on something that wont allow myself and others to play the game at the level is been brought to because of other buffs? WE can play the game at the FPS its at now, but we cant play the game when the Stegos and solo bronts are soaking 100 turrets on one wall in 15 mins and then foundation wiping us. Your point is invalid saying its gonna be a performance increase cause there wont be a game to increase performance on when youre living in a 4x4 metal shack with 100 turrets hoping you make it threw the night

[ciabattaroll]

5 minutes ago, dillonboi08 said:

Pretty disrespectful for a Volunteer mod still. Arent you suppose to represent Wildcard? What do you play PVP or PVE come on answer the question this time. Youre right Im not going to compromise on something that wont allow myself and others to play the game at the level is been brought to because of other buffs? WE can play the game at the FPS its at now, but we cant play the game when the Stegos and solo bronts are soaking 100 turrets on one wall in 15 mins and then foundation wiping us. Your point is invalid saying its gonna be a performance increase cause there wont be a game to increase performance on when youre living in a 4x4 metal shack with 100 turrets hoping you make it threw the night

Keep thinking the sky is falling then. The fact of the matter is that while you claim you can play the game at the frame rate it's currently at, you won't have to. And more on that; the fact that Wildcard is keeping a fairly open table on changes, even entertaining the idea of nerfing tankier dinos or nerfing veggie cakes, means that you're running around like a chicken with its head cut off worrying about things based on an absolute lack of information.

[VIKAS]

1 minute ago, dillonboi08 said:

Pretty disrespectful for a Volunteer mod still. Arent you suppose to represent Wildcard? What do you play PVP or PVE come on answer the question this time. Youre right Im not going to compromise on something that wont allow myself and others to play the game at the level is been brought to because of other buffs? WE can play the game at the FPS its at now, but we cant play the game when the Stegos and solo bronts are soaking 100 turrets on one wall in 15 mins and then foundation wiping us. Your point is invalid saying its gonna be a performance increase cause there wont be a game to increase performance on when youre living in a 4x4 metal shack with 100 turrets hoping you make it threw the night

They are also humans, and the amount of work that they have faced the last days is more than enough to upset them.

They are only telling you that they are not doing this because they want to destroy the community only to improve the overall experience for all users.

They don't want your base to get destroyed, nobody wants that. Please be a little more comprehensive to them, they deserve at least that.

Now I'm going out because I know this is not going to be very popular but I do the things that I do because I love ARK and want it to be a sucess, not only work in make my virtual belongins safe.

Regards

[Axokep]

In all honesty, i think this is the best thing to ever happen to this game. Turrets are by far way too over used and ruin

a lot of the fun in this game, especially when it comes to exploration. Ive played ARK since day 1 of PC EA, and ive

always thought the auto turrets were overkill and shouldn't be in the game at all. IMHO the only turrets that should be

automated are the TEK turrets.

[CobraD]

4 minutes ago, dillonboi08 said:

Pretty disrespectful for a Volunteer mod still. Arent you suppose to represent Wildcard? What do you play PVP or PVE come on answer the question this time. Youre right Im not going to compromise on something that wont allow myself and others to play the game at the level is been brought to because of other buffs? WE can play the game at the FPS its at now, but we cant play the game when the Stegos and solo bronts are soaking 100 turrets on one wall in 15 mins and then foundation wiping us. Your point is invalid saying its gonna be a performance increase cause there wont be a game to increase performance on when youre living in a 4x4 metal shack with 100 turrets hoping you make it threw the night

He wasn't being diesspectful, he was just pointing of how selfish you're being. The thread you're writing in talked about how they hear you and  making changes to help selfish people like you keep your stuff while still having a limit on turrets to help with performance, and instead of giving helpful feedback you're just saying "well I don't want you taking away my turrets, just optimize the game better". 

 

But maybe im wrong, maybe they didn't know they needed to optimize the game and instead decided to get rid of your turrets cause they hate you.

[dillonboi08]

6 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Keep thinking the sky is falling then. The fact of the matter is that while you claim you can play the game at the frame rate it's currently at, you won't have to. And more on that; the fact that Wildcard is keeping a fairly open table on changes, even entertaining the idea of nerfing tankier dinos or nerfing veggie cakes, means that you're running around like a chicken with its head cut off worrying about things based on an absolute lack of information.

You still have yet to answer my question about what you play. I also said that first comment I made was just after reading the first page. I understand what nerfs they are talking about. Stegos will probably not be a question anymore on tanking. Cool. Upgraded turrets, Means i gotta take down everything I put it up, rebuild a base, and make new turrets. How does that make my game play more enjoyable? For the love of god dude Youre so disrespectful for a mod, must be nice knowing if I talk poop Im gonna lose my privs and cant talk to you at all. While youre over here being disrespectful. WE DONT WANT THE CHANGE. 90% of the population is going to quit do you not know what is going on there? maybe youre a little under informed on whats going on. Where am I suppose to keep my gigas when im offline? Should I put a sign up outside my base "Feel free to compound bow my gigas" Like come on we cant build bases to protect our dinos? How are we suppose to grow on this nerf?

[dillonboi08]

4 minutes ago, CobraD said:

He wasn't being diesspectful, he was just pointing of how selfish you're being. The thread you're writing in talked about how they hear you and  making changes to help selfish people like you keep your stuff while still having a limit on turrets to help with performance, and instead of giving helpful feedback you're just saying "well I don't want you taking away my turrets, just optimize the game better". 

 

But maybe im wrong, maybe they didn't know they needed to optimize the game and instead decided to get rid of your turrets cause they hate you.

No listening to us there wouldnt be a nerf? Theres all the beach bobs in their little shack and PVE nerds talking about how great all this is. WE still cant grow. We cant support the dinos we currently have. I thought this game was full release not Alpha?

[CobraD]

10 minutes ago, dillonboi08 said:

No listening to us there wouldnt be a nerf? Theres all the beach bobs in their little shack and PVE nerds talking about how great all this is. WE still cant grow. We cant support the dinos we currently have. I thought this game was full release not Alpha?

They listened to the community by not only creating new powerful turrets but also reducing damage resistance of Dino's, aswell as a few other things like possible knock back damage  so yeah they are listening, because these were the most common suggestions. You're right that they didn't listen the people who didn't want  the new limit, hell I don't really want this either but just like you I'll have to suck it up and find new ways to adapt. As must as it sucks it's just how it's gonna be. If you don't like it or can't overcome it then well they're other games out there.

[dillonboi08]

3 minutes ago, CobraD said:

If you don't like it or can't overcome it then we'll there's other games out there.

This line right here. No one should ever have to say that about their favorite game. 4k hours on a game. Supported it since day one. Always tried to tell people to get it and try it, always offered advice to people that want to quit cause they couldnt survive. I promoted and loved this game for so long. Now there is 90% of the population of official servers on PC saying they will quit cause it will never be the same and its just not a big deal to anyone else?

[wimthetim]

15 minutes ago, dillonboi08 said:

You still have yet to answer my question about what you play. I also said that first comment I made was just after reading the first page. I understand what nerfs they are talking about. Stegos will probably not be a question anymore on tanking. Cool. Upgraded turrets, Means i gotta take down everything I put it up, rebuild a base, and make new turrets. How does that make my game play more enjoyable? For the love of god dude Youre so disrespectful for a mod, must be nice knowing if I talk poop Im gonna lose my privs and cant talk to you at all. While youre over here being disrespectful. WE DONT WANT THE CHANGE. 90% of the population is going to quit do you not know what is going on there? maybe youre a little under informed on whats going on. Where am I suppose to keep my gigas when im offline? Should I put a sign up outside my base "Feel free to compound bow my gigas" Like come on we cant build bases to protect our dinos? How are we suppose to grow on this nerf?

Your wasting your breath... They are completely out of touch with your typical pvp player.

I mean why would you be annoyed at having to rebuild the entire defence of your base!

If the change means players have to play more to sort out the mess then the devs see this as a positive.

They will only get it when players leave the game.

[Justa]

5 minutes ago, dillonboi08 said:

This line right here. No one should ever have to say that about their favorite game. 4k hours on a game. Supported it since day one. Always tried to tell people to get it and try it, always offered advice to people that want to quit cause they couldnt survive. I promoted and loved this game for so long. Now there is 90% of the population of official servers on PC saying they will quit cause it will never be the same and its just not a big deal to anyone else?

I hear you I have played since day one . I am retired have  12k hours between two accounts almost 10k of them on my main. I have bought this game for many people as well. I am praying this all can work out so everyone can live with it. I have spent the last few days trying to reconfigure and  rebuild large portions of my base. Devs Please dont make me go back to playing tanks it makes me rage and is bad for my heart LUL 

[CobraD]

3 minutes ago, dillonboi08 said:

This line right here. No one should ever have to say that about their favorite game. 4k hours on a game. Supported it since day one. Always tried to tell people to get it and try it, always offered advice to people that want to quit cause they couldnt survive. I promoted and loved this game for so long. Now there is 90% of the population of official servers on PC saying they will quit cause it will never be the same and its just not a big deal to anyone else?

Not really no, the same threat has been said many times before for it to have any viable impact. Hell in five minutes someone's gonna threaten to quit cause they added a giga spawn near green ob.

[ciabattaroll]

1 minute ago, wimthetim said:

Your wasting your breath... They are completely out of touch with your typical pvp player.

You do know you yourself are coming off as being completely out of touch with your fellow ark players right? There are how many posts, reviews, etc. from players going "fix the lag". This change is one of those that aims to help do that, and you are basically saying that those people in essence just need to suck it up because you are selfishly fine with the game being laggy.

[Jerryn]

Let's get back on topic.

If you want the developers to hear you, then offer some constructive input.  Maybe consider the idea of compromise and thinking outside of the box.  Up to you how you use or waste this opportunity.

ETA:  Just in case it needs clarity, constructive input does not mean you have to agree with the developer's vision.

[dillonboi08]

2 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

You do know you yourself are coming off as being completely out of touch with your fellow ark players right? There are how many posts, reviews, etc. from players going "fix the lag". This change is one of those that aims to help do that, and you are basically saying that those people in essence just need to suck it up because you are selfishly fine with the game being laggy.

If it keeps my tribes dinos safe then I think my tribe agrees and well thats about 100 some people. Oh and my alliance who knows the number of that. And 90% of them want to quit because of it. They dont even want to come in here and try to sort things out cause we know we are just talking to a bunch of devs that have their mindset on this