LouSpowells Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, wimthetim said: It's not just about server performance though is it? What about balance and satisfying the player base... It's not guaranteed that everything they said is correct. Your basing your opinion on everything the devs have stated being acutely accurate. They have got things wrong in the past so I don't hold such blind confidence in there ability to balance the game while delivering acceptable performance. They have shown time and again they don't care about the wills and wishes of the people that play the game Server performance is exactly what this is about. A catastrophic overabundance of turrets are wrecking official server performance, and they are going to be changed. Pout out your lower lip, scream at the top of your lungs, hold your breath until you pass out...it won't change anything but your blood pressure. You're fighting the wrong fight, duderino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wimthetim Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Yes I look forward to acceptable performance at key moments in gameplay when when my base is being flattened due to unbalanced meta. At least I get to see the devastation in real time as long as I'm online ofcourse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger1 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, wimthetim said: In comparison to the population as a whole... You mean more players are playing ark at any given time than ever before? I thought the max player count on servers had not changed. Why would players spam more turrets now compared to what they did say 6 months ago? By that I mean that more and more tribes are spamming more and more turrets in concentrated areas, the meta shifted in that direction. When you also consider the increased frequency of 2X (or more) events leading up to and after launch it's hardly surprising that a lot of those resources went into building more turrets. 9 minutes ago, wimthetim said: Sometimes statistics are plucked out of thin air to support the whims of those in power. Darn those inconvenient facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRavenHeng Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Ripley and Hicks had 3 turrets on LV-426, and we all know what happened there. You'll need more than 3 to protect a base, but 1680? Really? It strikes me that something is really broken when a tribe even thinks it needs 1680 Autoturrets in order to go to sleep at night. Yikes, no wonder its a lag-fest nightmare for Wildcard. If turret scans/server usage is a problem, it appears a simple solution is to lower the scan rate (or range, or whatever, less server usage per tick), or lower the number of turrets. Turrets should be limited per player (so a tribe with 10 players gets a total of 10x the player limit total, like 100 total), and increased in power to accommodate. This would give the same/similar hitting power but at less cost to server usage. Upgraded harder-hitting turrets could have bigger, beefier models, and give players something to grind for instead of massive numbers of silly little turrets. Bigger models will also mean you can't place them indoors as easily, or so densely as the current small turrets. (ie requires a 3x3 foundation support) Manual turrets should be hardened and do superior damage and have superior hit detection rates - so that it makes it viable to get in one and defend your base. Give them a bigger model, make them bad-ass, so players stop relying so much on the auto-turrets. This won't help off-line raids, but if you're in a manual turret you should be a beast. Watch Morgan Freeman in "Oblivion" for reference. Manning a turret yourself should be the best base defence strategy next to getting on board a big well-bred Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malosa Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 they already disabled the plant species x animation... i think they should let the species x plants on 500 max per ttibe than peope need to focus on good rexes and gigas for base defence and turrets on 100 like now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toni Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 12 hours ago, powerstuck said: And, December 10th, players and devs all together figure turrets were not the reason for huge lag spikes. Exactly that will happen. The main cause is the tamed dinos, not the turrets like the "profiled"... You can easily test that with a new server and adding tamed dinos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBanditKing Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Argue for the turret change all you want guys. You love to see the tears of the people who actually worked hard for what they have on pvp official and everyone who argues for the change as it has been stated to be either does not play official pvp, or has nothing. A turret limitation can work if they 1. Nerf Stegos/paracer/bronto soakers 2. Nerf Veggie cakes 3. Make X plants have their own range number limitation 4. Tweak the numbers/add bigger turrets 5. Increase structure HP. If bases were much harder to raid there would be more open world pvp. As it stands right now, raiders have the upper hand and everything in this game takes too much time to get for how easy it is to raid and soak up turret ammo. I'd love to not have to craft a gazillion turrets but I also know how big a base needs to be to hold what is needed for bosses/kibble etc. This change, if it stays as it is, will only make us all expand our bases into giant compounds with 100 turret sections. So to all of you who are arguing the details of this when you have ZERO knowledge of official gameplay. Please shut your mouths, you know not what you speak. Because if you did play official pvp with the current meta, you would know how much firepower it takes to protect even the simplest of bases from an average raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronics Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Malosa said: they already disabled the plant species x animation... i think they should let the species x plants on 500 max per ttibe than peope need to focus on good rexes and gigas for base defence and turrets on 100 like now. Over %90 of raides happen when tribe is off-line or mostly offline so all them gigas and Rex is not going to stop ......... all you have is your turrets. with this change say goodbye to ever doing boss fights ever again because 100 turrets not going to protect your boss rexes when you are offline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fealthion Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Add offline raid protection onto pvp servers, the turret issue goes away completely and nobody loses a thing. Dont get me wrong, people would then be designing bases to 'slow' attackers for the 15 minutes after they all logged out as a last resort but it would eliminate a large number of the current PvP problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaProiettile Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 19/11/2017 at 6:51 PM, s3aHaWKS said: Please listen to us. Not like you "listened" to us on the flier nerf. Nobody cares if we have 1 frame per second. That's Ark! We like the way the game is now, and theoretically with the launch of the full game, raiding should be scaled up, not down! Thousands of people have signed a petition that hasn't even been out for 12 hours, begging you guys to push it back. Please listen to us and at least try to reconsider your options. You will lose a lot of players doing this, and it is not something that can be so simply undone. Ark being laggy is just a part of the game The flyers were and in many cases still are horrendously OP. If you can't see that your either blind or incredibly biased. The nerf was a good thing just like this nerf/lag reduction will be a good thing. It's called balance and all games need it. Also I am certain most players do care that their server is a laggy pos because of one greedy alpha/mega tribe on it with thousands of turrets lagging everyone else. Why should everyone else suffer for the greed of a few. These kind of nonsense has to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaProiettile Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 19/11/2017 at 7:46 PM, Olivar said: @TheRightHand If the cause is so much turrets being build by people, what about removing the reason for having so many turrets? E.g if you'd remove the bullet soaking ability, people would theoretically be inclined to build less turrets. I'm just brainstorming here, but in good will the turret count would decrease, you guys get what you want, and the salt on the PvP community would decrease. PVP servers are servers where PVP happens. What you are suggesting would lead to unraidable bases and turn servers into Farmvilles. This game already has too much of the turtle mechanic and not enough aggression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaProiettile Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 With regards to the changes my own thoughts are as follows: 1. If you increase the turret damage/ add "Heavy Turrets" what will happen to the ground game? Not all players love to ride dinos (I being one of them). Players are already quite fragile, increasing the damage by 20% will effectively remove any kind of ground raiding which I think will be bad for the game. I would like to see the damage being differentiated between dino and player in the same way a gun in this game does less damage to dinos then an arrow. 2. With the extra damage of turrets coming into play I think its now more prudent to ever to rethink siege options in particular the lacklustre highly nerfed garbage that we meant to use such cannons and catapults. Players need a metal tier siege weapon and a TEK tier siege weapon. This would give them more options when assaulting bases other then the boring standing there with Brontos tanking mechanic which is neither fun for the attacker or defender. 3. Unraidable Caves. Certain cave bases are already nearly ticking the box for "unraidable location" which is an extremely bad thing to allow on any PVP server. If this change goes ahead these caves which are currently only raidable on foot and only because the turrets have trouble tracking the targets will become entirely unraidable. I suggest either not allowing turrets in caves or changing the layout of all caves so that every cave can be raidable using some kind of tankable dino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaProiettile Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, TheBanditKing said: Argue for the turret change all you want guys. You love to see the tears of the people who actually worked hard for what they have on pvp official and everyone who argues for the change as it has been stated to be either does not play official pvp, or has nothing. A turret limitation can work if they 1. Nerf Stegos/paracer/bronto soakers 2. Nerf Veggie cakes 3. Make X plants have their own range number limitation 4. Tweak the numbers/add bigger turrets 5. Increase structure HP. If bases were much harder to raid there would be more open world pvp. As it stands right now, raiders have the upper hand and everything in this game takes too much time to get for how easy it is to raid and soak up turret ammo. I'd love to not have to craft a gazillion turrets but I also know how big a base needs to be to hold what is needed for bosses/kibble etc. This change, if it stays as it is, will only make us all expand our bases into giant compounds with 100 turret sections. So to all of you who are arguing the details of this when you have ZERO knowledge of official gameplay. Please shut your mouths, you know not what you speak. Because if you did play official pvp with the current meta, you would know how much firepower it takes to protect even the simplest of bases from an average raid. "If bases were much harder to raid there would be more open world pvp." That is the exact opposite of what would happen. If you want more PVP you have to create ideal situations to foster PVP these include: Placing strategic resources in limited quantities in certain locations around the map - Players will have to fight over resources. Limiting/Removing the ability to make alliances. If everyone is holding hands, then no one is fighting. - If you limit the ability to hold hands you naturally increase the chances of PVP occurring. Limiting the amount of players allowed per tribe relative to the max server player amount. - ie if the max players per server is 70 then an ideal tribe cap would be around 10. Big tribes reduce the competitiveness of PVP in the same way that alliances do. Limit the ability for tribes to turtle up/hide behind their defences. - Weaker bases encourage more PVP since there is more inclination on the part of other tribes to attack bases. Reduced Grind - The faster players can make weapons and get a basic base up and running the faster can they partake in PVP. At the same time a careful balance must be struck so that you don't end up with inflation where everything becomes worthless because of how easy it is to farm ie like what happens on Unofficial servers with 5X+ rates. Allow for multiple PVP strategies. Siege weapon options, defence tanking, politics, diplomacy, subterfuge, guerrilla warfare, suicide attacks. Worthy loot/items. - There needs to be something worth taking. No wants to fight over thatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBanditKing Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 56 minutes ago, ForzaProiettile said: "If bases were much harder to raid there would be more open world pvp." That is the exact opposite of what would happen. If you want more PVP you have to create ideal situations to foster PVP these include: Placing strategic resources in limited quantities in certain locations around the map - Players will have to fight over resources. Limiting/Removing the ability to make alliances. If everyone is holding hands, then no one is fighting. - If you limit the ability to hold hands you naturally increase the chances of PVP occurring. Limiting the amount of players allowed per tribe relative to the max server player amount. - ie if the max players per server is 70 then an ideal tribe cap would be around 10. Big tribes reduce the competitiveness of PVP in the same way that alliances do. Limit the ability for tribes to turtle up/hide behind their defences. - Weaker bases encourage more PVP since there is more inclination on the part of other tribes to attack bases. Reduced Grind - The faster players can make weapons and get a basic base up and running the faster can they partake in PVP. At the same time a careful balance must be struck so that you don't end up with inflation where everything becomes worthless because of how easy it is to farm ie like what happens on Unofficial servers with 5X+ rates. Allow for multiple PVP strategies. Siege weapon options, defence tanking, politics, diplomacy, subterfuge, guerrilla warfare, suicide attacks. Worthy loot/items. - There needs to be something worth taking. No wants to fight over thatch. You are wrong on so many levels. You obviously have no concept of how mega/alpha tribes operate. You obviously have no concept of how raiding works or when people choose to do it. However, you're at least finally adding some substance to the conversation as opposed to just blindly arguing for the turret nerf like you've been doing over and over even though you don't play pvp official. I'm so proud of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaProiettile Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, TheBanditKing said: You are wrong on so many levels. You obviously have no concept of how mega/alpha tribes operate. You obviously have no concept of how raiding works or when people choose to do it. However, you're at least finally adding some substance to the conversation as opposed to just blindly arguing for the turret nerf like you've been doing over and over even though you don't play pvp official. I'm so proud of you. Listen here champ I've been playing PVP Official since the second week after the game out in 2015. I have over 4000 hours of PVP Official playtime. I've been in Alpha tribes, Mega Tribes, Medium tribes, Small tribes and solo. I know what I am talking about. I've seen this game develop over the years and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that PVP in this game was superior in the first 6 months of release. There was not these mega tribes or alliances there are now, tribes in general were much smaller. I can recall that most bases didn't even have turrets, ours didn't ours was mostly wood with a small metal keep. The only air dino was an Argent and there wasn't all these easy mode farming dinos there are today. Players had good fun though, we did PVP every day. Bows, pikes, the occasional longneck. On average we got raided every 1-2 weeks but we didn't complain. It was part of the experience. You learned from your mistakes and improved. The game has sadly overtime become more passive. It's become very defensive. I think a large part of it is to do with the formation of alpha/mega tribes and the addition of the alliance system. People prefer to hold hands rather then fight these days. Back in 2015 there was none of this lame alliance nonsense, you had 70 players on the server and 90% of them were the "enemy". So what did you do? You went out there and broke some skulls, kicked some doors in killed their dinos. Then you went to back to your base and worked on your defences because you knew they'd strike back. It was good fun. The people on here complaining about having their turrets taken away and that they will be raided seem to be forgetting what mode they are playing. I guess when you play on a PVP for two months in a large tribe allied up with other large tribes and have yet to be even shot at once let alone raided you develop this safe space mentality, that your base is somehow now a permanent fixture and should be immune to damage. I can understand your frustration, your outrage, your anger. You are now being forced into PVP and you really don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger1 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I've had to "chat" with a couple of folks about getting a little carried away with their posts. Epeen waving is all well and good, however some posters need to keep in mind that anyone and everyone is fully entitled to post their opinion on the matter here. Most of the discussion has been perfectly fine, but I don't want to see anymore posts telling people they aren't "qualified" to have an opinion, and I would hope you can understand why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mccabe47 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Let's be for real...the ark devs are completely destroying the game. I don't play this game to have 100 turrets on my base. That's stupid, 1 stego or a good bronto is far enough to break through those defences, instead of breaking the game more why can't you just leave is to have as many turrets as we want to craft. After all 100 turrets ain't going to protect nothing. Especially over 30 odd foundations. The turrets aren't even causing the lag until they all start firing at once, if they reduce turret cap I guarantee everybody will quit because they will be wiped within the first week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer Moderator Jerryn Posted November 21, 2017 Volunteer Moderator Share Posted November 21, 2017 The conversation continues, including feedback from TheRightHand on comments and concerns, in this thread: Please read the new thread and then post any additional comments, ideas, or concerns you may have. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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