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Turret change discussion megathread


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1 hour ago, Pendrodor said:

100 TURRET LIMIT IS NOT ENOUGH EVEN WITH THE HEAVY TURRETS make it at least 300 or dont count X plants into the 100 limit if you go with the 100 turret limit you are going to kill the game !!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

Accurate. Anyone whose spent a fair amount of time on official knows how many turrets it takes to defend a base from even the smallest of attacks. Many of the people commenting here are not familiar with just how easy it is to soak bullets and get in a base with tons of turrets with the current meta.

I for one, as others here are arguing against the 100 limitation only because we have experience defending bases, watching bullets get soaked up by stegos/bronto/paracers. Imo they need to make bases be better protected due to the amount of work that it takes to do everything in this game.

If not, raiders come by, bring a bronto, soak out your bullets in half an hour and blow a hole in your base, and game over.

If you cannot understand this concept I'm sorry, but this is the reality of official in the current state. And its not just megatribes, every tribe who has any base somewhat defendable has turrets 100+, these are the facts.

I just don't comprehend why many people argue in favor of this change when as it stands with the number 100, will not allow for defensible bases ever. The only option with that meta is to make a compound spread out over a wide area using giant 100 turret towers. Not rocket science guys.

 

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Oh Damn. I'm happy now.

" We are no longer hard-limiting turrets on the 5th of December, that timeline has changed. We still plan to hard-limit them, but it'll be pushed further out now that we'll be introducing a new kind of turret into the mix. Here's the new plan: "

http://steamcommunity.com/games/346110/announcements/detail/1459592783026223785

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21 hours ago, FraggleRock said:

Some of the best YouTube videos I have ever seen are people flying into a base on an Argy, soaking damage from turrets, until reaching a blind spot to turrets. Having too many turrets is likely the solution to that problem - for me I would say don't touch that base that has too many turrets. 

I think "changing" turrets will improve game play.....but good luck with that. 

1. Argies are the most underappreciated flying mounts after "The Change" - they are quite durable, have high weight limit and plenty of stamina, on top of some decent damage if bred and imprinted.  Although they are currently overshadowed by Gryphons (jack of all trades, master of all) that are in a dire need of some balancing.

2. "Best YouTube videos" - you mean those that mostly fail to utilize turret restriction properly? Like not using turret towers for clever distribution and better coverage at all... Old habits of placing as many turrets in tiny space as possible surely die hard.

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2 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

1. Argies are the most underappreciated flying mounts after "The Change" - they are quite durable, have high weight limit and plenty of stamina, on top of some decent damage if bred and imprinted.  Although they are currently overshadowed by Gryphons (jack of all trades, master of all) that are in a dire need of some balancing.

2. "Best YouTube videos" - you mean those that mostly fail to utilize turret restriction properly? Like not using turret towers for clever distribution and better coverage at all... Old habits of placing as many turrets in tiny space as possible surely die hard.

My argies are 17k+ HP we use them to drain bullets for days when coupled with a meat run tame. Low raise times,  can tank bases inaccessible to land dinos. Very under rated tames

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Thinking this will help equalize everything at least.  Never fun to be that new guy coming in and being unable to thrive in a bunch of servers due to a mega tribe or alpha just owning everything with their bulk.  Means there'll be more emphasis in pvp on making worthwhile alliances that can utilize dinos efficiently, because cross-raiders will still be a thing.  Not to mention in an alliance, they'll have to stagger the turrets so that if attackers break through the first wall of turrets, the next wall will activate.  Atleast, this is an assumption.

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wait... they are reducing a sandbox game for performance.. how bad are they are coding? really.. limiting defenses too get players too get better performance? it wasnt enough with dino cap either xD DILO is going on.. am reinstalling after 6mnths and ive seen alot of good patches but holy raptor.. maby i stand a chance now against alpha tribe with 3 gigas and 10 trexes with only 100 turrents right. i never made it past 10 turrents before i got wiped xD

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56 minutes ago, Chronosphere said:

wait... they are reducing a sandbox game for performance.. how bad are they are coding? really.. limiting defenses too get players too get better performance? it wasnt enough with dino cap either xD DILO is going on.. am reinstalling after 6mnths and ive seen alot of good patches but holy raptor.. maby i stand a chance now against alpha tribe with 3 gigas and 10 trexes with only 100 turrents right. i never made it past 10 turrents before i got wiped xD

They're still coding better than 90% of the player base

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Honestly i think people are overreacting the change isn't that big tbh, look at nerd parades video on it as well and you will see that its not really all that awful 100 turrets is way better then the ladder of things and a huge nerf to stego + turtle hp or brontos making them basicly oversized balloons waiting to pop. 

Personally i accept this change, and all it takes is a bit of reorganization to fix the said issue. I know because my tribe has started to allredy to map out where things will go. Just takes a small redesign is all.

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I am an Official PVP player, I feel that the turret, or rather the way they are executing it is absurd. Rather than limiting us to 100 turrets please let it be 200-400.  There are many reasons I feel this way. Most people Have larger bases if they have around 30+ days in this game. Most people will know my plead, 100 turrets are not enough in the area you have chosen wildcard! Becuase of this limiting range and small number, Turret towers will be more spread out, now beach spawns pretending to be experienced listen well, you may think that us "big alpha tribes" will have to start playing with "skill", because of this people will not decrease there number of turrets, but rather will just spread this number out, if you have been graced with protection from a larger tribe, there will next to no areas to build, and spawns will be blocked. Stegos even after there "fix" will still be overpowered.  plus this will not be fixed because most people will just do the same thing we do with the dinocap. Alt account allianced tribe. I feel this nerf is completely pointless and will just force players to find ways around it. I repeat do not push forward with this wildcard. This is finally pushing the dagger through the throat wildcard. You have nearly killed your game more than once, and this is its last stand. My final words, Wildcard do what the players are gonna do, find other ways to reduce the lag. because this will surely not do that. That was my opinion on this, whats yours. beach spawns please keep out of this because you have no idea what you are talking about. Have a great day - Rogue :)

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If you can make those 200-400 turret caps give the same performance numbers as the 100 cap then sure knock yourself out. But as it is Wildcard's concern is improving framerate. They found that people clumping a buttload of turrets densely in places was what was causing issues, so if this fix somehow makes "turrets to be more spread out" like you're proclaiming then it's only going to help framerate issues.

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5 hours ago, ciabattaroll said:

If you can make those 200-400 turret caps give the same performance numbers as the 100 cap then sure knock yourself out. But as it is Wildcard's concern is improving framerate. They found that people clumping a buttload of turrets densely in places was what was causing issues, so if this fix somehow makes "turrets to be more spread out" like you're proclaiming then it's only going to help framerate issues.

honestly, stop riding their backs, they are messing up with this nerf, 100 turrets will obviously fix it the best, but 200 to 400 would help as well. Honestly, if you are going to "fixing the frame issue" no turrets would certainly help with that. if you hate turrets so much go play primitive.

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2 minutes ago, Rogueblade1658 said:

honestly, stop riding their backs, they are messing up with this nerf, 100 turrets will obviously fix it the best, but 200 to 500 would help as well. Honestly, if you are going to "fixing the frame issue" no turrets would certainly help with that. if you hate turrets so much go play primitive. ps. you obviously have never been in a big tribe if you support this nerf, please sit down and let the big boys handle this. 

In case you missed it, they are working on implementing a stronger turret and balancing to ensure the limitation won't affects player's defence:

On 11/21/2017 at 6:35 PM, Jen said:

 

Update on Turrets

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A few days ago we announced a big change to the game wherein we would be limiting the use of turrets within a radius on our Official Servers. We have been keeping track of all the feedback, reading all the threads, and we understand that this is an important change. Therefore, we'll be making some modifications to our initial plan in order to deal with the concerns that have arisen, as well as ensure a smoother transition to the new turret system for all players. Here's what's going down:

We are no longer hard-limiting turrets on the 5th of December, that timeline has changed. We still plan to hard-limit them, but it'll be pushed further out now that we'll be introducing a new kind of turret into the mix. Here's the new plan:

PC players can expect the new "Heavy Turret" on the 27th, it will launch with an active server-side turret limit specifically for "Heavy Turrets". We'll take the time to monitor player feedback and our official servers to see if there's anything that we missed, so then we'll have time to consider how to fix and address those concerns. This means that if you're over the visual limit on your regular Auto Turrets, you'll be fine (for now). However, you won't be able to place the Heavy Turrets, unless you're within the limit. We recommend taking advantage of this time to slowly transition your base to using the new Heavy Turrets over the old ones. 

When Aberration releases on the 12th December, it will have the turret hard-limit enabled on that map from the get-go. This means that neither regular Auto Turrets or Heavy Turrets can be placed on Aberration above the limit. After some time -- likely in the latter half of December -- this change will be enabled on the other maps, however, we'll be providing 2 weeks notice beforehand so you can make any adjustments as necessary. The idea is that you can immediately use the Heavy Turrets in the meantime to prepare for the change while ensuring your base remains well-defended.

Console players can expect to see the arrival of the Heavy Turret when the Aberration launches. By this time, the Heavy Turret would have gone through multiple balance passes. The reason we opted to take this route is that we want to make sure it's in a good state before it went live on the console. Unfortunately, we don't have the ability to rapidly iterate as we do on PC, due to the cert process. Console will ultimately follow the same hard-limit activation as PC, albeit several weeks after the hard-limit is activated on PC.

For those who hadn't seen some of our previous dialogue on the change, you can check out this short blurb post by Senior Technical & Gameplay Designer, Kayd Hendricks (aka TheRightHand). He covers what are our current thought-processes are, as well as shares some information that we had discussed previously.

 

How about you give them a chance first?

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@ciabattaroll & @Joebl0w13  that dougal guy has some valid points fyi, and the passive aggressive posts coming from moderators is of poor taste.

 

Turrets may be a cause of lag on servers but they are definitely not the cause of lag on servers. An example you could look back at primitive servers before transferring items/dinos on to scorched was allowed. This meant no auto defense of any kind. The servers still lagged during peak times at 255 with constant rubber banding. How would @TheRightHand explain that one?

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28 minutes ago, Racidon said:

@ciabattaroll & @Joebl0w13  that dougal guy has some valid points fyi, and the passive aggressive posts coming from moderators is of poor taste.

 

Turrets may be a cause of lag on servers but they are definitely not the cause of lag on servers. An example you could look back at primitive servers before transferring items/dinos on to scorched was allowed. This meant no auto defense of any kind. The servers still lagged during peak times at 255 with constant rubber banding. How would @TheRightHand explain that one?

Nobody said that turrets are the only thing that needs to be optimized. However, this is definitely one of them. The data provided in the "Technical Talk about why" proves that turrets have a major impact on server performance and that the limitation will results into an increase of 50-300% of said performance. Again, this is not really a "game change" but a new "official rule". Players hosting their own server could always disable the limitation on their own server if turrets are not an issue for them, but it definitely is for some of the most populated official PvP servers.

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3 hours ago, invincibleqc said:

Nobody said that turrets are the only thing that needs to be optimized. However, this is definitely one of them. The data provided in the "Technical Talk about why" proves that turrets have a major impact on server performance and that the limitation will results into an increase of 50-300% of said performance. Again, this is not really a "game change" but a new "official rule". Players hosting their own server could always disable the limitation on their own server if turrets are not an issue for them, but it definitely is for some of the most populated official PvP servers.

I've read it all and please don't quote percentages. I know what 1 frame to 4 frames is percentage wise. I also know that when you're talking a complete bottleneck there's no point talking about percentage increases. Because if servers were running at 50fps do you think percentages would be quoted then? Also that increase in performance is worse case so again a pointless thing to even bring up.

Lastly I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with the change their doing so best not treat me like that :), even if I was the attitude of "go play unofficial" is quite poor and pathetic of anyone to say. We're allowed our opinions and we're also allowed to call WC out on their misdirection or the lack of actual clarity. Turrets are not the major cause of lag, if you want to know the actual cause of the lag it's all these dumb rate increases they keep doing. They keep making it easier and easier for people to raid/build so they just do it at a massively increased rate. It all happens on an exponential rate.

 

You increase all gathering by 2x for the base game in general. What does this do? Makes all dinos tame 2x faster, making it 2x easier, you can gather resources 2x faster making it 2x easier to get what you need to tame. You also get more levels out of what you tame, meaning better stats. 

Then they made breeding MUCH easier, on top of 2x what you could normall gather for food for the babies. Then you have the additions of tek troughs making it even easier.

Then what happens during evo++ events? Everything breeds 2x faster, you get 1/2 the breeding timers. You get a further 2x the resources for keeping the babies fed.
XP is further broken. You can easily now get 60 levels into a dino in about an hour because of these compounded rates. You can gather stone 2x faster, you get 2x the xp for doing it, you get 2x the xp from the grinder for it too. Add an evo event into that and it compounds further. Having multiple grinders is of little concern as well.

 

The slowest thing of turrets these days is now bullet production, with waiting for the wood to cook, but again with all these rate increases most people just build a poop tonne of forges..

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