Turret change discussion megathread

[Joebl0w13]

3 minutes ago, Dougal1981 said:

c) And to my knowledge turrets themselves have never made the server lag,

To his knowledge, they do.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess his knowledge on the subject far outweighs yours.

[Dougal1981]

5 minutes ago, Joebl0w13 said:

To his knowledge, they do.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess his knowledge on the subject far outweighs yours.

I read this the point was ? 

I have been in these big bases on legacy and new cluster, yet i fail to see how a death wallis causing these issues. They are not new to the game, i have played for about a year. and the biggest culprit for lag is and always will be the dinos. you take those dino's out your base and i bet you run round that with next to no lag, well not taking into account the species x.
But you can take his word if you like, i could care less if he was the dev that built modeled and implemented the auto turret.

[Joebl0w13]

4 minutes ago, Dougal1981 said:

I read this the point was ? 

I have been in these big bases on legacy and new cluster, yet i fail to see how a death wallis causing these issues. They are not new to the game, i have played for about a year. and the biggest culprit for lag is and always will be the dinos. you take those dino's out your base and i bet you run round that with next to no lag, well not taking into account the species x.
But you can take his word if you like, i could care less if he was the dev that built modeled and implemented the auto turret.

The lead systems developer just proved how they do.

Just because you can't/don't see it doesn't mean much.

And the correct phrasing for ignorance is "couldn't care less".

[Dougal1981]

Meh it's whatever, I'd still rather trust my in game play time. Where i have built my own bases, and seen personally what makes it lag for me (points at dino's) i could tell you i was a technical wizard, doesn't mean i am.

 

UPDATED:

To record the fact its not jus tdino's but species x too

[LouSpowells]

14 minutes ago, Dougal1981 said:

Meh it's whatever, I'd still rather trust my in game play time. Where i have built my own bases, and seen personally what makes it lag for me (points at dino's) i could tell you i was a technical wizard, doesn't mean i am.

So you're self-admittedly not knowledgeable about the topic and the only experience you have on the matter is purely anecdotal and accumulated over one year...but you're not comfortable accepting data that has been provided by the team that's been developing the game for 3 years? 
 

[Dougal1981]

1 minute ago, LouSpowells said:

So you're self-admittedly not knowledgeable about the topic and that the only experience you have on the matter is purely anecdotal and accumulated over one year...but you're not comfortable accepting data that has been provided by the team that's been developing the game for 3 years? 

That's absolutely correct, till this day so many things remain broken (not saying fixes temp or otherwise have not been implemented). But i don't trust a word they say. 

And imo when you are the one that has to work with the game in any given state, you are the one that has the best knowledge as to what's doing what and why.

Why else do you think species x were used on lag towers to work in conjunction with the autos ?

[Olivar]

2 minutes ago, Dougal1981 said:

That's absolutely correct, till this day so many things remain broken (not saying fixes temp or otherwise have not been implemented). But i don't trust a word they say. 

And imo when you are the one that has to work with the game in any given state, you are the one that has the best knowledge as to what's doing what and why.

Why else do you think species x were used on lag towers to work in conjunction with the autos ?

Sorry but that logic doesn't hold ground at all.
I've seen people playing classes in World of Warcraft or other MMORPGS, and they are simply unable to perform beyond the bare minimum.
And they also claim to have played for years, having worked with the game in any given state and having the best knowledge as to whats dong what and why.

The plain truth however is : you don't. You have a very skewed view based on personal observance from a few points that can be refuted by simply giving the phrase: "It's working for me"

[ciabattaroll]

11 minutes ago, Dougal1981 said:

TAnd imo when you are the one that has to work with the game in any given state, you are the one that has the best knowledge as to what's doing what and why.

Remember boys and girls, do your own appendectomies and heart transplants. You're the one that has to work with your body in any given state, that doctor that went to medical school knows absolutely nothing about fixing you up.

[aggravating]

1 hour ago, Dougal1981 said:

That's absolutely correct, till this day so many things remain broken (not saying fixes temp or otherwise have not been implemented). But i don't trust a word they say.

i agree with this.

after everything that has been said and done over the past year how can anyone just take take their word for it.

[LouSpowells]

16 minutes ago, aggravating said:

i agree with this.

after everything that has been said and done over the past year how can anyone just take take their word for it.

I'm all for people having a vendetta against the devs if they're pissed...but there's a huge difference between a vendetta with the devs and a vendetta with reality.

You don't have to take their word for it for it to be true. Server lag is massively impacted by an overabundance of turrets, both logic and hard data prove the assertion. Turrets alone are eating up twice the server resources as the rest of the entire game. Reducing turrets will increase performance. That's not up for debate...it's a fact. 

What is up for debate is the extent to which turrets will be nerfed, and what features can be added/modified to offset the handicap of having less turrets. So, you can put your fingers in your ears and go "La la la la, I don't believe you!", or you could suggest things that will soften the blow of this inevitable change. Only one of those two options is beneficial to you.

 

[Runia]

my first thought was that I approve of this change. actually, I still do: this is clearly an attempt to curb the amount of something, and the something they picked - turrets - is generally owned in high triple digit amounts only by megatribes (right?). if you're gonna take away from the population at large, taking away mostly from the 1% is unequivocally a good thing. the exact implementation probably could've done with testing before being implemented, but ultimately that's what the official servers are for. the exact ranges, turret amounts and stats will be tweaked fifty times over before this is all done.
having read this entire thread (always a good use of one's time ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) it seems to me that a lot of people hate this without good reason, just because no one likes change and changes to the meta are scary and all that, oh noes what will happen to my giant metal box etc. for those of you still vehemently against.. maybe try asking yourself what would you cap instead of turret numbers, and what kind of changes in meta and player reaction this may lead to. i understand it smarts to have your shooty toys taken away, but you must understand that they need to cap something before the servers become untenable.

WC is sending a message to megatribes here like.. we see you, and your way of playing is over. i don't think this is a bad thing at all but it seems likely that more caps on various-poop-people-hoard will follow suit.

[tekgiga]

every changes in meta, should always comeback to what do you want to archive.. even if, it happen as collateral of other reason like fixing server performance.. right now, i see the dev dont have a clear idea on its core, what is the best gameplay should look like.

my idea on pvp Ark is simple,

1. it should be tons of fun, lots of online pvp action, planning n rational politics.
2. it should not be a endless grind on a very laggy server that require the player to scarifies real life necessity like sleep n work.

in the previous post, i stated some changes that might be in order.. that is obviously just scathing the surface, it need few more tweak in some other places too.. like increase the price of fertilizer for maintaining n ammunition for xplant. reducing the difficulties of boss, reducing the price of running tek power plant (but also limit the power it can generate).

the concept of limited power should look at the old CnC Red Alert, there are power output n power usage in every connected power generator. so you cant spam everything too much..

constant  need for resources would create the situation n politics where the war between the megatribe can be often n its limits on saddle, cake n turret would then create more devastation result. the alliance would be broken more easily the bigger it gets.. but also form lots more easily in the smaller tribes.

[Pogue1995]

10 hours ago, Runia said:

my first thought was that I approve of this change. actually, I still do: this is clearly an attempt to curb the amount of something, and the something they picked - turrets - is generally owned in high triple digit amounts only by megatribes (right?). if you're gonna take away from the population at large, taking away mostly from the 1% is unequivocally a good thing. the exact implementation probably could've done with testing before being implemented, but ultimately that's what the official servers are for. the exact ranges, turret amounts and stats will be tweaked fifty times over before this is all done.
having read this entire thread (always a good use of one's time ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) it seems to me that a lot of people hate this without good reason, just because no one likes change and changes to the meta are scary and all that, oh noes what will happen to my giant metal box etc. for those of you still vehemently against.. maybe try asking yourself what would you cap instead of turret numbers, and what kind of changes in meta and player reaction this may lead to. i understand it smarts to have your shooty toys taken away, but you must understand that they need to cap something before the servers become untenable.

WC is sending a message to megatribes here like.. we see you, and your way of playing is over. i don't think this is a bad thing at all but it seems likely that more caps on various-poop-people-hoard will follow suit.

Wow what a great message. Punish your most active players for the part timers who will stop playing the game after a week. There's a place for people who just want to play the game casually its called dedicated server. Official servers are where the big boys play and if you can't handle it then find yourself a nice little 100x dedicated server.

Bottom line is Wildcard are idiots and don't know what they have and what to do with it, simple.

[Pogue1995]

16 hours ago, Joebl0w13 said:

The lead systems developer just proved how they do.

Just because you can't/don't see it doesn't mean much.

And the correct phrasing for ignorance is "couldn't care less".

Every time I played on server the main cause of base lag/general lag always started with dinos. Not turrets. Just from my experience Dinos have always started the insane lag issues.

We had a base at the start of the fresh wipe with about 250dinos. 0 Brontos and about 30 turrets and the lag was insane. 

[Runia]

I'm not sure they would consider player turnover a bad thing at all though. It's been pointed out in this thread before, but a player who quits after a week still paid for the game and doesn't use up server space so another player can buy the game in their place. Megatribes, meanwhile, are a drain on server resources and in no way pay for their share or contribute to the publisher's bottom line in any way. They also have the deterimental effect of discouraging potential new players. This is simply gently, politely showing them the door.

[Pogue1995]

2 hours ago, Runia said:

I'm not sure they would consider player turnover a bad thing at all though. It's been pointed out in this thread before, but a player who quits after a week still paid for the game and doesn't use up server space so another player can buy the game in their place. Megatribes, meanwhile, are a drain on server resources and in no way pay for their share or contribute to the publisher's bottom line in any way. They also have the deterimental effect of discouraging potential new players. This is simply gently, politely showing them the door.

I'm sorry but that is the most stupidest thing I've seen on this thread. Hardcore players being punished because new players can't get started? I started on Official with a 2 man tribe we built up and we where wiped 4 times. After playing enough we got invited to a Alpha tribe. You play the game = reward, You cry and cry = keep getting wiped.

This game is a survival game for a reason. If you don't like the PVP side then there's always PVE.

New players may buy the game and leave after one week but they certainly wont buy the DLC/Season pass. Hardcore players will that's where everything in your post you said is wrong. Just because noob players cry and cry shouldn't mean they keep getting their way. If you dont play the game then you'll keep getting wiped. I'm awful at Rocket League and you don't see me complaining to the devs to give me a advantage. This goes for any other game aswell. Play the game get good or get lost. Simple.

[Runia]

3 minutes ago, Pogue1995 said:

I'm sorry but that is the most stupidest thing I've seen on this thread. Hardcore players being punished because new players can't get started? I started on Official with a 2 man tribe we built up and we where wiped 4 times. After playing enough we got invited to a Alpha tribe. You play the game = reward, You cry and cry = keep getting wiped.

This game is a survival game for a reason. If you don't like the PVP side then there's always PVE.

New players may buy the game and leave after one week but they certainly wont buy the DLC/Season pass. Hardcore players will that's where everything in your post you said is wrong. Just because noob players cry and cry shouldn't mean they keep getting their way. If you dont play the game then you'll keep getting wiped. I'm awful at Rocket League and you don't see me complaining to the devs to give me a advantage. This goes for any other game aswell. Play the game get good or get lost. Simple.

Sure you can disagree with me and say I'm bad at ark (I'm super bad at ark) and whatever else you want, but the devs will do their thing anyway. You can also disagree with them, and say they're bad at running their game and they should run it this other way because you, a veteran player, know better. Ultimately though they get to decide who the target audience is. As in, they - wildcard and no one else - get to decide just which kind of player they want playing their game.

And the player who needs 700 turrets is not that player.

[FraggleRock]

Some of the best YouTube videos I have ever seen are people flying into a base on an Argy, soaking damage from turrets, until reaching a blind spot to turrets. Having too many turrets is likely the solution to that problem - for me I would say don't touch that base that has too many turrets. 

I think "changing" turrets will improve game play.....but good luck with that. 

[Pogue1995]

27 minutes ago, Runia said:

Sure you can disagree with me and say I'm bad at ark (I'm super bad at ark) and whatever else you want, but the devs will do their thing anyway. You can also disagree with them, and say they're bad at running their game and they should run it this other way because you, a veteran player, know better. Ultimately though they get to decide who the target audience is. As in, they - wildcard and no one else - get to decide just which kind of player they want playing their game.

And the player who needs 700 turrets is not that player.

And then their game will become dead. Great thinking there mate. Of course I know better? I have played over 100days of this game, who would you rather take advice on the game from a player with over 100days or a player with 10days?

Sure they can cater to the noobs and give all they want but what happens when they stop playing the game after a week and because of so many idiotic updates all the hardcore players have stopped playing? No one will be on the game. It'll die. It's currently dying atm. It's player count gets lower every week and how a company can't see that means they're Amateurs. This current team does not know what they have and what to do with it. 

They're trying to make Alphas/Mega tribes balanced with this update. But guess what? This will have 0 effect on all them. The reason why its getting so much heat is because of them catering to the cry babies instead of actually fixing the game. So you can get a few days of happiness and quit the game.

[Olivar]

54 minutes ago, Pogue1995 said:

And then their game will become dead. Great thinking there mate. Of course I know better? I have played over 100days of this game, who would you rather take advice on the game from a player with over 100days or a player with 10days?

Sure they can cater to the noobs and give all they want but what happens when they stop playing the game after a week and because of so many idiotic updates all the hardcore players have stopped playing? No one will be on the game. It'll die. It's currently dying atm. It's player count gets lower every week and how a company can't see that means they're Amateurs. This current team does not know what they have and what to do with it. 

They're trying to make Alphas/Mega tribes balanced with this update. But guess what? This will have 0 effect on all them. The reason why its getting so much heat is because of them catering to the cry babies instead of actually fixing the game. So you can get a few days of happiness and quit the game.

man the times I've heard this song being played on game forums....

[KillaMrB]

I've read through all of these threads over the course of a day or two...fact is that people are leaving in droves and the only traffic you'll see are noobs and die hards who refuse to accept Ark has been on a downward spiral for a long time. R.I.P. Ark my old friend, i may revisit one day but for now goodnight god bless.

[Shrekasaurus]

It seems to me that a lot of the people that are worried/upset by the turret limit don't realize that dino health/defence/turret damage will be changed. I don't even play PVP, I'm an SP guy, but I hear CONSTANT complaints about server crashes and lag spikes, and if that can be greatly reduced while keeping turrets fairly balanced, do it!

[Shrekasaurus]

14 hours ago, Olivar said:

Sure they can cater to the noobs

Cater to the noobs? Reducing lag caters to everybody...

[Olivar]

20 minutes ago, Shrekasaurus said:

Cater to the noobs? Reducing lag caters to everybody...

But that's a bad thing, cause everyone is going to lose everything and the game is going to die and we've going to lose all effort!
We're playing a video game here!
Serious business!

[Pendrodor]

100 TURRET LIMIT IS NOT ENOUGH EVEN WITH THE HEAVY TURRETS make it at least 300 or dont count X plants into the 100 limit if you go with the 100 turret limit you are going to kill the game !!!!!!!!!!!!!