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Turret change discussion megathread


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6 minutes ago, ericthegreat343 said:

just look at youtube guys

 

Eric, I'm a "YouTube Guy".  Calm down my friend.

YouTubers are just gamers like everyone else, and have their own personal (and sometimes uninformed or not up to date) opinions.  Most of the videos out there were done before the rest of the announcements fell about the heavy turrets, or are more focused on providing instant click bait than admitting that this will be a balancing process that will likely see tweaks and adjustment based on data and user feedback post change.

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1 hour ago, Ranger1 said:

Eric, I'm a "YouTube Guy".  Calm down my friend.

YouTubers are just gamers like everyone else, and have their own personal (and sometimes uninformed or not up to date) opinions.  Most of the videos out there were done before the rest of the announcements fell about the heavy turrets, or are more focused on providing instant click bait than admitting that this will be a balancing process that will likely see tweaks and adjustment based on data and user feedback post change.

Speaking of which, I hope there is more tweaking and balancing done than promised, because I am still angry at the flyer nerf and waiting impatiently for more flyer balancing which never came. 

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2 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

Eric, I'm a "YouTube Guy".  Calm down my friend.

YouTubers are just gamers like everyone else, and have their own personal (and sometimes uninformed or not up to date) opinions.  Most of the videos out there were done before the rest of the announcements fell about the heavy turrets, or are more focused on providing instant click bait than admitting that this will be a balancing process that will likely see tweaks and adjustment based on data and user feedback post change.

We can hope that we will be given access to these "New Heavy Turrets" before so we can theory craft a new defense and become the check and balances this game needs desperately.

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50 minutes ago, powerstuck said:

Speaking of which, I hope there is more tweaking and balancing done than promised, because I am still angry at the flyer nerf and waiting impatiently for more flyer balancing which never came. 

To be honest, and this is my personal opinion, but page after page of, "Roll back the nerf or else!!!", "Ptera/Quetz are slower than turtles!!!", "Flyers are useless!!", "It takes 30 minutes to fly anywhere!", and similar(and sometimes a lot less polite) comments really did not provide anything useful to the devs.  And, any attempt to offer up suggestions, compromises, and such were drowned out by said comments;  I know I gave up trying.

Will be interesting to see what happens.  You have someone that is reading, listening, and even replying.  Hopefully enough constructive comments, ideas, and compromises will get a chance to surface this time.  Though, I have already seen attempts to drown out a suggestion thread with the same type of posts.

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On 11/19/2017 at 10:31 AM, w1r3dh4ck3r said:

Man did I really waste 1k hours in a game? raptor, I need to stop a little, well I`ve been playing for a long time and with plenty of stops so... Still it`s alot to me man if it is not alot to you, you need to review your priorities in life...

 

Keep the tear coming please, its hot in here...

lol...whatever man... Try reading my previous posts before you try spreading your *laugh* -  wisdom.

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5 hours ago, Jerryn said:

To be honest, and this is my personal opinion, but page after page of, "Roll back the nerf or else!!!", "Ptera/Quetz are slower than turtles!!!", "Flyers are useless!!", "It takes 30 minutes to fly anywhere!", and similar(and sometimes a lot less polite) comments really did not provide anything useful to the devs.  And, any attempt to offer up suggestions, compromises, and such were drowned out by said comments;  I know I gave up trying.

This! ^^ This right here. When the flyer nerf came, the community had an opportunity to make a point for more compromise in the stat rebalance, and many were trying. But every time someone made a good point, they were shouted down by people the no-nerf crowd.

What I think people are failing to realize is that this is going to happen. The announcement made it pretty clear, and at this point it's safe to say that turrets are getting nerfed no matter what. They have an opportunity to double performance. It's a no-brainer, and if there's nothing to fight we might as well start floating some ideas around in hopes that it will suck less.

Increased structure health/durability. Multi-tiered turrets with varying fire rates/damage at a materials cost. Ability to shoot different types of bullets. Placeable landmines. Increased turret damage. A setting to manually control turrets...we can make arguments for stuff like that, or let Wildcard make the decisions for us...which I'm sure will go well. /s

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On 11/18/2017 at 2:56 AM, CobraD said:

With the extra damage and ability to hold more ammo per turret it should be fine. 

Its 20% extra damage. Not near enough when you consider some one may have  400 turrets in an area that will now be reduced to 100 that now get 20% more damage. So you went from 400 shots at a target each doing 100% damage to 100 shots at a target each doing 120% damage . A steggo with a MC saddle will soak this in no time and now you got a wide open path at least 12 foundations wide  to march right into a base.

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On 19/11/2017 at 5:16 PM, natman said:

everything in a 33.5 foundations radius (in all directions) counts towards the 100 limit of that turret.

correct positioning can give you repeat turret towers of 50 turrets every 18 foundations in if working in a straight line, you can effectively build a 50 turret tower every 20 foundations, this is already happening in preparation on some officials as well as stockpiling of resources for heavy turrets. I know of at least one base where they have now re-positioned  over 1k turrets to actually give themselves "better" turret cover over the same size area and are fully within the new turret limit. The only issue they had was figuring out the original spacing to allow for a central turret tower on the base. 

 

Also. if it is 34 foundations in ALL directions, you should be able to repeat the turrets 34 pillars above, or reduce turret battery size to around 35 and have an additional 35 turrets 18 pillars above. Mathematically there are plenty of ways to work around the turret cap, its all about smart placement of towers now instead of massive turret walls. 

 

This was probably meant to allow smaller tribes similar offline protection to larger ones, however it is the large tribes that have the resources to test and prepare for this change, as many already have/are doing so.

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4 minutes ago, Saupe said:

correct positioning can give you repeat turret towers of 50 turrets every 18 foundations in if working in a straight line, you can effectively build a 50 turret tower every 20 foundations, this is already happening in preparation on some officials lol.

 

Yep, I don't think some people have a good grasp on the distance involved in the limit.  We'll have to see how heavy turrets figure into the those 50 turrets available.

Personally I like the concept of Heavy turrets with increased damage and a significant amount of knock back, while regular (current) auto turrets retain the ability to shoot down rockets.  Thus requiring some interesting decision be made in how you want to weight your defenses.

And perhaps Tek Turrets could do both... I guess we'll have to see how all the pieces of the puzzle fit together.  Hopefully by the time it's all said and done we'll have a base defense mechanic that is more varied, more challenging, and more fun for all involved.  Something that requires more intelligent choices (versus simply spamming turrets), and more options... options that can just as easily work to the defenders advantage as it can create vulnerabilities for them depending on the tactics and equipment/creatures those attacking choose to employ.

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2 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

Yep, I don't think some people have a good grasp on the distance involved in the limit.  We'll have to see how heavy turrets figure into the those 50 turrets available.

Personally I like the concept of Heavy turrets with increased damage and a significant amount of knock back, while regular (current) auto turrets retain the ability to shoot down rockets.  Thus requiring some interesting decision be made in how you want to weight your defenses.

And perhaps Tek Turrets could do both... I guess we'll have to see how all the pieces of the puzzle fit together.  Hopefully by the time it's all said and done we'll have a base defense mechanic that is more varied, more challenging, and more fun for all involved.  Something that requires more intelligent choices (versus simply spamming turrets), and more options... options that can just as easily work to the defenders advantage as it can create vulnerabilities for them depending on the tactics and equipment/creatures those attacking choose to employ.

That would be a great addition, and actually bring even more strategy into turret placement. Tbh, if done well, it may signal my full time return to official PVP its just far too boring being a builder when all you do every day is build a wall and cover it in turrets lol.

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Theres so many beach bobs, pve and a bunch of bullpoop dude. Offline raiding? Dude ive stayed up all night cause we got word someone was dropping a fob on our server. This 100 turret will kill Official PVP. It doesn't matter. 100 turrets doesn't mean poop. You can literally use a bronto and LOS all turrets. Have someone run with c4. Griefers will become foundation wipes. Invasions will be pvp till last kit is lost cause you just lost your base is 10 mins it took to walk up and get to the turrets. Sure there will be a knock back effect they are trying to use. Will it really matter though? Probably be OP as poop when it comes out and then itll be nerfed and then everyone will destroy each other if anything. This limit is ridiculous. It wont fix the 255 on Every Rag server ever. It wont Rag isn't optimized at all. Dinos will be slaughtered cause you cant store them. its a joke really. Wildcard just wants the game to be downscaled from what it is cause their servers cant handle it. They wanna charge 60 bucks a game but wont upgrade Servers.

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12 hours ago, Delver said:

Its 20% extra damage. Not near enough when you consider some one may have  400 turrets in an area that will now be reduced to 100 that now get 20% more damage. So you went from 400 shots at a target each doing 100% damage to 100 shots at a target each doing 120% damage . A steggo with a MC saddle will soak this in no time and now you got a wide open path at least 12 foundations wide  to march right into a base.

20% extra for regular turrets, and the ability to construct a larger single turret that does 4x that damage. So if you have 400 regular turrets now in an area, that will be reduced to 100 turrets that do 4x the damage, or the exact same amount of DPS in a more confined space.

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8 minutes ago, dillonboi08 said:

Dude ive stayed up all night cause we got word someone was dropping a fob on our server.

Cool story bro, I applaud you on the fact that you have so much free time to devote to a video game.

9 minutes ago, dillonboi08 said:

This 100 turret will kill Official PVP. It doesn't matter. 100 turrets doesn't mean poop.

Except that, as many many people have stated, there will be plenty of us enjoying PVP all the same, regardless of turret requirements. It's an inevitable change, quit if you want.

100 turrets that do 4x the normal damage, spaced at appropriate intervals and given the right configuration can be incredibly effective. You haven't seen the turrets in play, haven't tested the theory, haven't provided a single piece of evidence in any way that suggests that 100 boosted turrets per 10,000 units will "break the game". Just saying it doesn't make it true. I've personally been testing it myself and I can get some pretty great coverage around my base.

12 minutes ago, dillonboi08 said:

Have someone run with c4.

A point that is pretty irrelevant when the server speed picks up and the reduced lag means you are running into a hail of bullets, instead of running past them.

14 minutes ago, dillonboi08 said:

They wanna charge 60 bucks a game but wont upgrade Servers.

Then go rent your own server and keep the no turret limit. That is your right. The point is that there are plenty of options. But no one is gonna cry if you choose to not come back because you can't make 100 4x turrets in 10,000 units work for you.

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2 hours ago, Herbapou said:

I was under the impression PvP based where build with no access point from ground...

If you build on a plateau people wont be able to soak up the bulllets with ground dinos.

If you have 1 choke point you can build layers of 100 turrets defenses spread out. The range is not that big.

You can always drop stegos on bases to drain, the only advantage to pillar top bases is they can't get Brontos/parasaurs up. Quetzals can carry all non-platform dinos.

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On 11/18/2017 at 3:17 AM, ForzaProiettile said:

After this the devs need to rethink base size limits. They could cull it by 50% and probably more then 95% of bases in the game would be completely unaffected. There is no need to build these giant bases players do, its just greedy bored players who like to stroke their virtual egos going out of their way to inconvenience everyone else on the server. Most of the time they aren't even an effective defence since the bigger the base the thinner the defences must be spread.

You should be drawn and quartered for these thoughts, they will not be allowed :)

Get your one sided thoughts out of the forum, you might be partially correct for your view on PvP, that does not make it correct for everyone.

Not to mention PvE servers, its all about being able to build like we want, GO BIG or GO HOME.

How does building big = greedy? makes no sense at all. What does bored have to do with it? again makes no sense at all.

On PvE building, big/spread out is one way to limit the lag, spreading things out reduces lag, not increase it. Quite the opposite, packing in 5000 items into the smallest area possible is a HUGE lag creator. So again your comment does not make any sense.

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Band aid solution is always create more problem than its trying to solve.. i think the game need gameplay overhaul. Cus its not only performance issue, but the gameplay is broken.. now its only carter to very small number of reigning megatribe inflated ego to grind n ruining their real life. It will fireback hard to the dev career in long run. 

This is my sugesstion to overhaul the pvp modes.. 

1. The generator had limits power on how much electronic it can run, n thus limit how much turret it can support. Let say 1 gen had enough power to run 10 turret (without other electronic running) So this will create higher consumtion n demand for oil n thus create more resource based intrique n politics.

2. All saddles had durabilities, just like armor.. after tanking enough damage, it get broken. But the price of crafting the saddles need to be nerf. Ler say around 50%. This also create more reason for war, trades n raid. People would have to stockpile the saddles.

3. Cake n any form of heals, had limits on how many time a creature can take in a period of time, let say 5 cakes in 12hours. Lessen the trolls n weird logic.

4.obelisk n drops only can transfer in character in prime hour. Let say 6-9pm in local time. obelisk n tek transmitter can transfer out char at anytime. This way alpha are not paranoid with small tribe, and can form a better relationship n alliance. Plus wars are enganged mostly when people are online. With the nerf on turret stated above, tribe would relying less on offline auto defence n more on human vs human interaction.

Sure some would see this as benefiting the megatribe n discourage wars, but not really.. with the huge nerf on the saddle, cake n limits server transfer, its only discourage offline raid. Online raid would happen lots more often with lots more player n tribe involved.

5. Assault rifle buff, its using the same bullet, why the disparities?

6. Everytime a character is killed, the inplant will show top 5 server he is been playing in n the names of the tribe. Also to encourage more realistic politics. 

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On 18/11/2017 at 9:45 AM, ForzaProiettile said:

ARK: Social Justice Evolved? No thanks. ARK doesn't need silly rules and regulations for its PVP. No limits PVP is a major selling point of this game.

Talk about contradictory, your saying you welcome the new turrets implementation. Yet you then proceed to drop the above comment, we have been busy evolving (some longer than others). And i have seen more than a few big wars defensive and raid side, And if they do this it will kill PvP period.

a) First off no limits PvP means no limits (so quit the BS change) and give us no limits

b) All i have seen come from this guy is blah blah blah blah blah, do you even play ARK PvP and if you do are you even in a big tribe ? I am currently in a 3 man tribe (but yes i have been in a mega alliance or 2) plus alpha tribes. And building big is not about being bored, it's actually imo about several things. One of is the more you have to go through to get to the main base, the more time you have to counter the raid and get defenders (tribe mates, allies in play), but it's also about making a statement and saying hey we're right here and proud. It's letting people know who's boss and other tribes build to hopefully be on par and bring something to the table if the server comes under attack and usually the server has an alliance to which they will all help defend if need be.

c) And to my knowledge turrets themselves have never made the server lag, as has been confirmed by others in this thread (never played PvE so can't say either way if this is true) but apparently there are no turrets in PvE yet it lags just as bad as PvP. Think it says a lot tbh, and if anything i would say the species x are more at fault (not autos). And the fact that it's blatantly obvious the DINO's create a massive amount of lag and with the amount of breeding that goes on it's of no surprise.

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