Turret change discussion megathread

[Danouk]

The game is not dead. People been calling for the death of ark for so long it's sound like when they call for the end of the world every year and do not happen.  For one thing it's not a nerf. It's the amount of turrets you can have at a certain place. They also increase the damage a turret can do to help in the removal of the tons of turrets people been putting in just one small place. There's is no server out there that can support that amount of items at the same place.

Instead of calling for the deaf of ark tell them if more things that can be change to improve the servers. I know how hard is to do anything around a base that have so many objects to render in. Just multiply that with all the bases doing the same thing and there goes the performance of the server.

One thing they should do is beside the number of players that can play at the same time the number of survivors that can be created on one server. You can only have 75 players playing on one time but there is no limit on the amount of survivors that can be created on one server. So that increases the amount of bases and how big the bases that can become to accommodate the number of players in the tribe.

[cfrostyscriv]

Is this not just a bandaid solution, sure for the time right now server performance will improve but as large tribes begin to re-deploy the turrets you will in effect end up with more turrets covering a larger, will this lead to the same poor server performance?

This simple fact is WC have made a game and done the PvP so that lag is your best defence. (server player slot limit, tribe member count, area a tribe can own, lack of defining rules, very little balance).

 

[AngrySaltire]

7 minutes ago, CaptoBraunch said:

Regardless, you play boosted on a server you own and your experience holds absolutely no weight in this discussion. Which is fine and well, until you start smugly boasting about "account seniority" or checking alts for hours played.. Get a grip man

Hhmmm I would have thought that as someone who runs a pvp server, he would know a darnsight more about server preformances and how a server runs than most people and therefore perfectly entitled to state his opinion in such matters.

[CaptoBraunch]

Anyway, the turret change(Much like the flyer nerf[Pteras needed it], griffin inclusion, cross-ark transfers, behe gate nerf, etc.) shows once again that Ark's developers do not play, or care about official pvp in the slightest. They have no idea how things play out in official pvp servers, they do not understand the habits and techniques of a pvp player.

Why can the fastest, tankiest AND most powerful flyer in the game also be hovered mid-air and sniped from?

Why are wyverns now objectively, unavoidably faster then Pteranodons now? A cap was needed. But for balance's sake, the weakest flyer should have escape.

Why can a giant solid steel gate the size of a titanosaur be destroyed with 15mins or less farm time worth of c4 (4 charges)

Why is sneaking onto other servers at 4AM, raiding a base while offline, then slinking back into the ob with 0% potential consequences even a thing?

Why is wiping out stone hut raptor-riding noobs before they can even get good stegos and c4 SO ENCOURAGED now?

Wildcard seems to be content in their bubbles of safety, playing minecraft in fantasy world, based on their lackadaisical approach towards balance. I will not be playing official pvp or buying a single DLC until they show a semblance of respect for the community that gave this game life, paid for their vacations and cars, the vast majority of Ark players across all platforms: Official PVP.

[cfrostyscriv]

A post on Reddit was saying that many of these recent changes to PvP is to try and remove the 'mega tribes' from 'owning' a server, recent changes would seem to verify this, but surely this would go against the core values and selling point of the game which read "team up with or prey on hundreds of other players to survive, dominate..." 

 

Quote taken from game description here: http://store.steampowered.com/app/346110/ARK_Survival_Evolved/

[TheBanditKing]

22 hours ago, ColdRansom said:

You're missing the point completely. Nobody here is saying they don't want PVP. We are saying that we want to be able to PvP and actually have a way to protect what we spend all of these hours obtaining. As many people have pointed out, 100 turrets absolutely cannot provide the protection needed for any End Game Ark. raptor boss battles. That will NEVER happen if it only takes 1 Ascendant shield to get into your base. Also, where will you store the Rexes? At that point, to reach end game, you will need a separate base for Wyverns, Rexes, Brontos, Stegos, and Gigas. Still sounding like balanced PvP? 

Also, I LOVE Alpha tribes in Ark. No, I'm not in one. No, I have never been in one..But having some sort of "ruler" that is looking over the server adds some level of politics to the game that makes it a more serious experience rather than "Whelp, who's gonna raid us today." It adds structure to this insane PvP world that I absolutely love. This is my opinion, however, and we all have one.

 

Perfectly said man, the politics in this game keeps it incredibly interesting. Anyone arguing for the turret cap at 100 is not a pvp official player and/or not experienced with end game at high levels. This is just the facts. 100 Turrets cannot protect any base for anybody with the current bullet soaker meta. Many of us here know that.

The devs imho intend to widdle down officials to nonexistant, in order to start closing down servers potentially. The way this game is, taming, kibble, breeding. It will be next to impossible to experience these game features on official pvp with this turret change.

The ways around this will lead to many more structures as turret towers will now extend much farther, be many more everywhere. I for one already have this planned out for my base and can tell you I will be adding many more turret towers in chunks of 100 every 34 foundations. GG

[CaptoBraunch]

Just now, cfrostyscriv said:

A post on Reddit was saying that many of these recent changes to PvP is to try and remove the 'mega tribes' from 'owning' a server, recent changes would seem to verify this, but surely this would go against the core values and selling point of the game which read "team up with or prey on hundreds of other players to survive, dominate..." 

 

Quote taken from game description here: http://store.steampowered.com/app/346110/ARK_Survival_Evolved/

The answer to that is quite simple, although nobody wants to hear it: Remove Cross-Ark Transfers. This pathetic band-aid fix ironically will only encourage tyranny, blocking drops and obs and wiping anyone in wood or above, since defenses are now only a small delay for raiders

[TheBanditKing]

Just now, cfrostyscriv said:

A post on Reddit was saying that many of these recent changes to PvP is to try and remove the 'mega tribes' from 'owning' a server, recent changes would seem to verify this, but surely this would go against the core values and selling point of the game which read "team up with or prey on hundreds of other players to survive, dominate..." 

 

Quote taken from game description here: http://store.steampowered.com/app/346110/ARK_Survival_Evolved/

I applaud them for trying to reduce the power of megatribes if that is their intention but this is not the way to do it. How about start by not making the bosses and getting element and tek engrams out of reach for everyone but alphas and megatribes. You have to have many people to get element, bred dinos, super saddles to get any engrams/element on offical. Start with that change if you wanna combat megatribes since they basically can put a transmitter and forcefield up and raid every base.

[l4m3r]

48 minutes ago, TheBanditKing said:

I applaud them for trying to reduce the power of megatribes if that is their intention but this is not the way to do it. How about start by not making the bosses and getting element and tek engrams out of reach for everyone but alphas and megatribes. You have to have many people to get element, bred dinos, super saddles to get any engrams/element on offical. Start with that change if you wanna combat megatribes since they basically can put a transmitter and forcefield up and raid every base.

And you can not defend your Dinos now dont matter who you are Alpha or not. Everyone has to do RL Things and so on and then you offline Raided by a Dodo now..

[Lewiatan]

2 hours ago, Crows said:

I agree but what annoys me more than anything about Ark is the fact that our server, even with 30 members online at 8am, lags EVERY. SINGLE. DAMN. DAY.. I'm talking about the kind of lag where you'll be opening a door and nothing happens for 10-20 seconds and then it finally opens and you're back to the spot you were at before, but this is happened almost every 2 minutes throughout the day, every day. This has nothing to do with turrets lagging up the server, but I also understand that turrets going off in a raid do impact server performance big time, as well. 

This is caused by low tick rate of the server. TheRightHand said on some servers it is only 1 Hz!  1 package of data sent between your cilent and the server per second. After the fix the server tick rate may reach 4,5 Hz. This. Is. Unplayable. 

BF3 server tick rate in 2011 was 10Hz. Current minimum in any PvP game is 30Hz.

[SmokeyB]

So to compensate for the loss of turrets Woild you be happy if they cut tribe size to 7 peopele and made no alliances . Would bring ark back to small scale pvp. 

While they are there they should boost the rates and cut taming times so people can recover faster aftrr being wiped .

Do you think that these things are now necessary since the turret nerf ? 

[ForzaProiettile]

5 hours ago, w1r3dh4ck3r said:

kkkk Ah the tears, amazing man, if the devs actually maintain this nerf I'll continue to play ARK for a couple more years, hell I'll even buy the new DLC, good job Wildcard this was sorely needed (Oh I'm sure they will tweek it, they are known for doing extreme changes and tuning them acording to feedback), f**k the little brats that wanted to be all safe behind their walls of turrets and turret towers, let's go out in the world and PVP instead of playing farmville.

 

ps: By "feedback" I mean the statistics that they surely keep of the things happening in their game, not YOUR whinings in the forums...

Well said. Players in this game have become too accustomed to feeling safe, hiding behind their walls of turrets and lag for protection. Many of them play on PVP servers but seemingly don't actually want PVP they just want to farm and base build. This change will hopefully encourage more PVP and revitalize previously stagnant passive servers.

[Dervish]

This makes me giggle.
If you're built up enough to have 100+ turrents that close to each other, I don't think you're really going to be attacked that much. You're more than likely already well established and either alpha or pretty up there so people are not really going to raptor with you.
Becides, it's not just you having to move all your poop, others are too. If anything, it's creating more balance and less lag. Get over it.

[Vaskur]

4 minutes ago, Dervish said:

This makes me giggle.
If you're built up enough to have 100+ turrents that close to each other, I don't think you're really going to be attacked that much. You're more than likely already well established and either alpha or pretty up there so people are not really going to raptor with you.
Becides, it's not just you having to move all your poop, others are too. If anything, it's creating more balance and less lag. Get over it.

it´s likely, that especially then you will get attacked, since somebody else sees an opening

[AngrySaltire]

So the key here from reading through the comments seems to be the soaking dinos. Balance them by nerfing the soakers, buffing the turrets or by what ever means nessesary. If one thing watching the various 'nerfs/balances/fixes/buffs' happening during EA has taught me is this change is coming. It will all depend on the other gameplay changes implemented cause of it.

[Jamage007]

18 minutes ago, Dervish said:

This makes me giggle.
If you're built up enough to have 100+ turrents that close to each other, I don't think you're really going to be attacked that much. You're more than likely already well established and either alpha or pretty up there so people are not really going to raptor with you.
Becides, it's not just you having to move all your poop, others are too. If anything, it's creating more balance and less lag. Get over it.

Lol 100 turrets is nothing and can be raided with 1 stego not even imprinted as seen in this video. Ive been on whole server wipes where we went through 1000's of turrets.

 

[Crows]

2 hours ago, Lewiatan said:

This is caused by low tick rate of the server. TheRightHand said on some servers it is only 1 Hz!  1 package of data sent between your cilent and the server per second. After the fix the server tick rate may reach 4,5 Hz. This. Is. Unplayable. 

BF3 server tick rate in 2011 was 10Hz. Current minimum in any PvP game is 30Hz.

Interesting... I have no idea about the technical data and all that stuff, but that does make sense! 

[Freakazoid]

The turrets are so you dont wake up to months of work gone to offline raiders who get neutral tames stuck to kill them...unless they turn on offline protection all their players will slowly die off and not want to start over...the fact that you have to put so much work into tames creates a bond that also keeps the player logging on

[Crows]

I agree though, 20% increased turret damage isn't going to be enough compensation to limiting your turrets by 100, as seen in that video above... anybody can soak your turrets with a single Stego within at least 5-10mins depending on how much ammo you have in them, assuming you're also not at your base or offline as well, and that's ONE attacker, never mind two or a tribe. This is going to hurt... 

[thedattrigga]

The funny thing is, people are saying that PvP is turning into PvE, but just last week i went and raided about 1 base a day, this turret cap is absurd and i really hope that the devs don’t mess up by making this go through

[Vaskur]

cutting down the ammount of turrets that much is a bit over the top. why not scaling it down step by step?

And as i recognized, the main problem is not the ammount of turrets... Had raids, that had no turrets involved.. still kind of a dia show. Three people uploading stuff at once.. server nearly crashes. leaving bases on island... picture freezes for about half a minute when entering the shore.
People want to defend their stuff when they are logged out... and because people find ways to counter the turrets, people start building more and more turrets... 

The main problem is, that there is no safety. you work for ages to create a base and then its gone in just a few hours of sleep, work or social life... 

you expect people to dedicate their life to the game or expect everyone to form megatribes? .... big problem in the idea of the game. and suddenly olrp seems like a good idea...

[Bigboss84]

I don't like the idea of limiting passive(passive as in, automated. You don't have to be there telling it what to do) base defense because that's really the only defense people have against raiders when you're offline. 

Offine raids are going to happen. Whether you love them, hate them, or just accept them as part of the game. When you logout the chance is there that your base, pets, and equipment will all be gone when you log back in. 

Automated Defenses don't make it impossible for people to wipe you while you're in bed, at work, or celebrating a birthday, but the lower the odds. 

My Brother straight up refuses to play this game because he's seen how much time and energy my friends an I have put into a base just for us to login one day and have nothing.

anyone that's ever logged in to see that they been wiped knows how souls crushing that feeling can be. It sucks. One of my friends quit playing because we were literally getting cleaned out every day.

That all said, not only do I think limiting defenses is a stupid idea, but I think the game needs more automated defenses in it. 

[Critter]

On 11/18/2017 at 3:46 AM, ForzaProiettile said:

See your stuck in this mindset that PVP servers are somehow meant to be full of friendly and loving people. It should be customary to slaughter each other without giving a damn. There is not enough PVP happening on servers atm because everyone wants to hold hands, be allies of everyone else and complain about some ghost called a "griefer".

Hopefully this change will herald a new Dark Age for ARK PVP. More slaughter and regular combat happening daily on servers. Let the blood flow. 

Uh, ARK PVP is already its own distinct PVP form in comparison to all other games. If your going to redefine what it should be then they also need to increase gather/taming/breed rates again, reduce c4 and rocket damage, increase the hp on structures, rework ORP, etc, in my opinion. Ark is intended to be slow paced pvp, not fast, atleast by the play styles required to play the dam game. If I have to elaborate on how ark is slow paced until you have the necessary tames, blueprints, gear, mats, etc, to properly raid then ignore everything I've said because clearly your blindly adhering to this change and therefore you sound silly as hell. 

 

Ontop of that, this change is going to push SO many goddam people off pvp onto what, the mess of PVE servers as their slowly becoming? Onto other PVP servers? It's far to easy to whipe now, so the alpha Mega tribe issue has just been exacerbated. Good luck!

Go play halo, pubg, counterstrike, whatever- that sounds like your pvp play style preference, Not arks.

 

[Bobo1234]

 

1 hour ago, thedattrigga said:

The funny thing is, people are saying that PvP is turning into PvE, but just last week i went and raided about 1 base a day, this turret cap is absurd and i really hope that the devs don’t mess up by making this go through

When do people say that? Mega tribes are raiding servers every few days lol, this is where the PvP starts normally because everyone has built up and got their breedlines

[J0hnnySw1f7]

I'm leaving ark because of this. i have spent so much time on official and now its all going down the drain. Bases cannot be defended with just 100 turrets. We can easily get past. its going to be way too hard to defend and way to easy to raid. Thats 25 Turrets on each side of the base, and then turret towers and internal turrets? You would have about 15 turrets on each side of the base and ask ANYONE in the ark community. it would be a piece of cake. 100 turrets wont stop a titan by the time it walks up and smashes them. There is no safety and its going to be a constant grind and constant wipe. Please don't change this, leave the turrets how they are and actually optimise your server and client. You have just killed your game. Anyways im going to go buy another game. GG

Trust me, you will be much happier. I still come back and play occasionaly and its much more enjoyable that way.