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Turret change discussion megathread


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1 minute ago, Ranger1 said:

I'm not a tech guy SIGMA, but I'm pretty sure the major issue is the large number of turrets concentrated in 1 area being interacted with all at once, not the total on the map (although that may have a lesser impact as well).

Just keep in mind that all bases (and tribes) large or small will have the same limitations.  Yes, it makes it harder for the little guy to defend against a large raiding force... but it also makes it easier for a little guy to raid a large base in return.

My initial thought is there may be additional tweaks necessary as things play out, we'll just have to see what happens after new meta's begin to be established.

I realize that lowering the amount of turrets is a way to help but it isnt the only way. There have been a lot of posts about reducing dino tail swing or deactivating it when not in render. There are lots of other ways to fix it without destroying the defensive capabilities of alpha tribes. This completely destroys the thought of pvp, every base will be easy to raid unless its built in a cave and there are only so many caves.

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I think this change is great. They should also buff c4 damage and player run speed and armour. Why should it be that only small tribes log in to find their base wiped and all their tames killed by one guy on foot. The larger tribes should get to experience this wonderful experience on a regular basis just like everyone else :)

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Ark devs, since you clearly do not understand how warfare works let me give you a little bit of insight historically. In every aspect of warfare NOTHING HAS EVER BEEN FAIR. The entire point of battle is to gain a strategic advantage over your enemy. Back when Alexander the Great created his empire he has a distinct advantage with a 5 foot longer pike. When the discovery of gunpowder and the creation of muskets was discovered warfare became more about who can be more accurate at a distance, causing the creation of sniper units far later to give armies the upper hand. Those that has the most accurate gun most always won the war. These are all OFFENSIVE ADVANTAGES. THEY WERE CREATED TO PENETRATE DEFNESES.   Conversely defensive capabilities were also created to stop any assault, like the castle, or a fortress, and even today anti air and ground defense for area defense, and body armor for personal defense. These things exist solely to STOP an assault. That is the way warfare works, it’s fluid. For every new offensive capability there will always be a reactionary defensive action taken by those who want to survive. The creation of many things from the constant evolution of body armor to the revolution of reinforced concrete are prime examples of DEFENSIVE ADVANTAGES. What you are essentially doing by limiting turrets is taking away any defensive advantage a tribe can have. Warfare is naturally balanced over the course of a war as new ways to conduct warfare are discovered. If you guys as developers really took a look you would easily realize that you are constantly giving the advantage to offense and constantly taking away defensive capabilities. THAT IS NOT HOW REALITY WORKS. GOOD DEFENSES ARE MADE TO BE ALMOST IMPENETRABLE. In fact, that fact is exactly why the wall was created, and by reaction the cannon. Again another example of the fluidity of warfare. My advice to you as someone who truly loves your game is stop trying to coddle those who complain when the odds are stacked against them, like many always do every day. Let loose the dogs of war and instead of trying to even out the playing field every time someone finds an advantage, implement something that can slightly tip the scales instead of pushing the scale down to one side. You guys enjoy creating new content for us, so give us new content that allows for new strategies of defense and offense instead of trying to change the rules of war completely.  Don’t take away ways to defend or attack, create new ways. You are the creators after all. Be true to the title of the game, allow us to survive the world of the ark in the only way humans know how: Surviving through evolution, thriving through perseverance. I implore you as a fan of this game, stop meddling in the waves of war and instead focus on fixing parts of the game that truly need your attention. This game could be a truly phenomenal game, if you choose to let it. 

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1 minute ago, Dibz636 said:

Ark devs, since you clearly do not understand how warfare works let me give you a little bit of insight historically. In every aspect of warfare NOTHING HAS EVER BEEN FAIR. The entire point of battle is to gain a strategic advantage over your enemy. Back when Alexander the Great created his empire he has a distinct advantage with a 5 foot longer pike. When the discovery of gunpowder and the creation of muskets was discovered warfare became more about who can be more accurate at a distance, causing the creation of sniper units far later to give armies the upper hand. Those that has the most accurate gun most always won the war. These are all OFFENSIVE ADVANTAGES. THEY WERE CREATED TO PENETRATE DEFNESES.   Conversely defensive capabilities were also created to stop any assault, like the castle, or a fortress, and even today anti air and ground defense for area defense, and body armor for personal defense. These things exist solely to STOP an assault. That is the way warfare works, it’s fluid. For every new offensive capability there will always be a reactionary defensive action taken by those who want to survive. The creation of many things from the constant evolution of body armor to the revolution of reinforced concrete are prime examples of DEFENSIVE ADVANTAGES. What you are essentially doing by limiting turrets is taking away any defensive advantage a tribe can have. Warfare is naturally balanced over the course of a war as new ways to conduct warfare are discovered. If you guys as developers really took a look you would easily realize that you are constantly giving the advantage to offense and constantly taking away defensive capabilities. THAT IS NOT HOW REALITY WORKS. GOOD DEFENSES ARE MADE TO BE ALMOST IMPENETRABLE. In fact, that fact is exactly why the wall was created, and by reaction the cannon. Again another example of the fluidity of warfare. My advice to you as someone who truly loves your game is stop trying to coddle those who complain when the odds are stacked against them, like many always do every day. Let loose the dogs of war and instead of trying to even out the playing field every time someone finds an advantage, implement something that can slightly tip the scales instead of pushing the scale down to one side. You guys enjoy creating new content for us, so give us new content that allows for new strategies of defense and offense instead of trying to change the rules of war completely.  Don’t take away ways to defend or attack, create new ways. You are the creators after all. Be true to the title of the game, allow us to survive the world of the ark in the only way humans know how: Surviving through evolution, thriving through perseverance. I implore you as a fan of this game, stop meddling in the waves of war and instead focus on fixing parts of the game that truly need your attention. This game could be a truly phenomenal game, if you choose to let it. 

In the history of warfare soldiers in the battlefield didn't have to deal with framerate issues either, I'm not really sure what your point is bringing up such a history lesson.

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I know this is uncalled for.

Why i quit Ark:  Developers aren't fixing what's actually breaking the game. It's like they're overlooking the fact that the concept of the game is broken (And has been from the start).

You can't even place a campfire when you spawn into the game.

Ark: Survival Evolved. More like Ark: Survival Evolution Halted.

I guess those people who complained that tek ruined Ark, and that it's suppose to be a primitive game are happy now. Now they can run around like cave men, without even a campfire.

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12 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

In the history of warfare soldiers in the battlefield didn't have to deal with framerate issues either, I'm not really sure what your point is bringing up such a history lesson.

They did have to deal with things that hindered them from effectively using all of their senses though. Yelling, screaming, crashing of metal on metal, explosions, gas, biological weapons. Warfare is chaotic. And it’s not in any way fair. That is the point I’m driving. 

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57 minutes ago, SIGMA said:

This hurts big tribes the most, my tribe has a rediculous amount of tames and we can barely cober them all with the 300 turrets we have, you lower it to 100 and we might as well sell all our war tames so our enemies dont have the satisfaction of sniping them.

but wouldn't the overall increase of both turret capacity and damage  negate a lost of the 200 other turrets? plus you could relocate the other 200 to two different points near you base increasing the amount of coverage you have.

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Ok, i'm not happy, but ill play advocate and make suggestions on how this can work.

1rst, auto turrets should 1 shot any player in any armor even with a shield. A player can run through 25 autos and place c4 on the wall currently. seen it done many times.

2nd, fire rate and targeting accuracy will have to get greatly increase. a turret will have to turn 180 degrees in less than .10 millisecond and for around 3x the current rate. That being said a turret will need to hold around 6000 ammo and ammo cost will have to decrease.

3rd, might as well remove plant x from the game and have auto turrets do both effect of a plant x, and a bullet.

4th, dino hp will have be reduced by around 400%. A 300 born bronto can't have more than 6 k hp.

5th, the entire leveling structure of dinos has to change. no more % increase to hp, it has to be a set #. 1 level = 50 hp. Games that use % to increase stats are generally exploited.

6th, will need a complete overhaul to bear traps and y traps. these will be completely necessary. will need around 80 bear traps per auto turret lost. average base 50x50 will need about 15,000 bear traps large and regular.

7th titans will have to be completely removed from the game, no saving grace in these creatures. they do way to much damage to dinos and metal.

 

or... upgrade hardware and put one map on a cluster, eliminating clusters. dedicated hardware for every map. The game isn't running well, so who gets the penalty, the player who bought the game or the company who sold it?  IDK the answer to that but I hope it isn't me, the consumer.

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The whole point of this update is to reduce server lag they say.  You must be out of your damn mind if you think that will fix server lag. The fact that I am going to be limited to a corndog shack of a base with turrets scattered beyond belief with a 37 foundation radius containg only 100 turrets is absolutely digusting.  My entire base can get offlined by a few steggos and brontos if needed.  My base easily containing over 1000 dinos will get meat ran because I am limited to somewhere around 500 turrets across the expanse of my base.

Increasing turret damage will not be a sufficient mediator for this horrific update as I can, in this case, walk right into bases where the most turret fire that I will recieve will be less than 50 turrets that are in range while the other 50 are pointing in opposite directions out of range protecting all other sides of the base. Limiting the amount of turrets to anywhere below 500 in the range given will not provide a tribe with a well defended base period. Mega tribes will steamroll each other's base when they least expect it. This gives the upper hand, in a significant manner, to the attacker which should never be the case.

Let's face it the servers have never been worse with lag, this is because the servers are trash to begin with. Wildcard needs to invest in better high performing servers, fix under-mapping issues, get rid of dupers and the ability to dupe ( especially on console, that shouldn't even be a thing), as well as implementing servers with actual ddos protection (whatever they have now is obviously not working).  Instead they are worried about aberration which will just open the air for more under-mapping and server lag issues.  Wildcard is spreading themselves thin here boys... I honestly see this as a dying business as it seems zero progress is being made to fix the biggest issues that this game has had since day one. People are cheating and exploiting the game beyond belief and wildcard is seriously turning their back on these facts. Idk if they are bankrupt or not, but it sure seems like it is coming to that point.

RIP PvP

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Turret proliferation happened in the first place due to massive turret nerfs over a year ago. get some popcorn and sit back while they realise they will need to significantly increase damage or nerf heavily armoured dinos and semi-exploitative dinos to the ground before everyone quits the game, yet another knee-jerk reaction when more lag enducing bugs like NAMEPLATES are still un fixed.

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Just hand over the game already Wildcard to someone who knows what they're doing with it and will progress with it. 

You're making huge changes TO A FULLY RELEASED GAME. This should not be happening. This should have been done before full release in Alpha stages. But no yet again you're lazy and predictable, you just thought of the money again.

How dare you guys offer a season pass and map expansions for a game in this state. Absolute robbery. 

You guys clearly have no idea how to fix this game and move foward, so you're taking away everything from it, bit by bit. LAZY COMPANY. LAZY DEV TEAM. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

Oh and before the obvious white knight pops in and says "can you do a better job" etc etc. No I cant but if I put a game out with this current state and the way it runs atm I'd be bloody ashamed and hold my head down in shame. 

Little side note I have 100+ days on this game and haven't played the game in around a month now. As I said to myself if this game releases as a full game and is still laggy and has awful performance I'd stop playing and i'm glad I have. This game is still being run by fools and the game still runs like a 2006 game. 

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4 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

 xD

That word is so overused. They are just good PVP players doing PVP on a PVP server. No need to call them silly names.

The changes will freshen up the game and create a new meta which doesn't revolve around building giant bases with tens of thousands of turrets and being perpetually safe. These are welcome changes that will make PVP far more interesting and dynamic.

It will make it impossible once again for the solo players on Official because of the "Griefers" who are also in so many cases  raiding noobs and killing passives so no they are not just players good at pvp most i see are offline raiders that just like to grief simple.

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This is a change you make BEFORE release. Not a few months into it after your player base has grinded out their bases already.  The devs keep saying they're open to feedback lol. Are you open to feedback? Feels like your team ignores your player base and do as you please. Take out idle dino animations, grass animation etc before destroying pvp as we know it.

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1 hour ago, Seanhastaco said:

That’s ridiculous the small tribes still get wiped with the way you want things, your not a offering a solution to the problem and even with 100 turrets you still need to be medium sized to take that out so small tribes will still not be able to throw any punches against big tribes, this shouldn’t be a solution to the big tribes strength 

Indeed its not a solution but its more negative for big tribes then for smaller tribes thats what im saying so thats a good thing in my opinion.

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6 minutes ago, Justa said:

It will make it impossible once again for the solo players on Official because of the "Griefers" who are also in so many cases  raiding noobs and killing passives so no they are not just players good at pvp most i see are offline raiders that just like to grief simple.

Nah should make it easier, just live in a turret tower and only have tames that fit in a dino gate. That usually what I do when I have to go solo on PvP as is. 

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