Love the game, but bugs and devs attitudes are ruining it.

[KingGalahad]

2 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

Heya Galahad, well, we've already gone over in detail the issues flyers caused on PVE.  Yes, they were more subtle things in PVE (like disrupting/invalidating certain aspects of the games design), as opposed to very hard to miss things in PVP (breaking some of the game mechanics directly... but those issues were definitely there and they were an unacceptable problem in PVE game play.

Those issues have been pointed out countless times on this forum, including in this very thread, and yet somehow the false myth persists that the flyer nerf was needed by PVP but was imposed on PVE as well for no good reason.  That's simply not the case.

I agree with your assessment that Quetz travel time can become more of an issue on maps other than the island, however with the caveat that if that is the case it is due to the player apparently having NO idea how to choose a base location.  Resources are richly distributed all over both of those maps, so there should be little to no need for excessively long flights.

 

The issues flyers caused for pve (none of which were really complained about by players, but more of an issue the devs had with how people were playing pve) were inconsequential compared to the issues the flyers were causing in pvp. The nerf was akin to poking ones eyes out because the sun was too bright. Should the flyers have been adjusted in pve? Yes. Should they have become the tedious time sink that they did? No. 

 

As for your comments in regards to base location, you can have a great base location, but still need to get across the map for other reasons. Resources isn't the only reason to travel across the map. As pve is a community style of game play, you may be going across the map to breed or trade with friends  there are a multitude of reasons. It doesn't just come down to resources. An example is on the ragnarok server I played on. Our base was in pirates cove, but in order to transport the thylas we tamed, we had to travel across the map to pick them up, and then return. The extra time it took to fly there and back added nothing to the difficulty of the game. It just turned it into a massive time sink. Another example is when the nerf hit, I was playing on the center. My base was in the massive cave in jungles south, whereas my friends base was down near the new ice castle at the edge of the world. As we were breeding and taming rexes to do boss fights, we would sometimes have to transport them to each other. What was a reasonable flight initially became over a 15 minute flight Post nerf (you can say we'll build closer, but how we're we to know that such a heavy handed irresponsibly done nerf was coming when we first built our bases?)

[IamTANK]

On 11/15/2017 at 1:24 PM, Bugs5567 said:

Don't jump to conclusions from the title, i love ark. I have a cumulative amount of around 1k hours on both xbox and pc combined and ive loved *almost* every bit of it.  But, the buggyness of it, and the attitude the devs have towards its playerbase and towards development of the game are going to hurt it. 

First off, its almost impossible to get the server browser to work correctly on consoles. If you're lucky you'll get into a game without it freezing up right now. Another bug, i cant count how many times my character has just plain disappeared. Along with items. There are just so many bugs that happen that arent a big deal alone, but when they continue to happen it starts to become an issue. There is no excuse as to why the games main menu, a core function of the game, should not be working. It should be the first focus of the devs to get running correctly.

Secondly, the devs. They continuously say they are listening to feedback, yet their actions show the opposite. Alongside with their constant delays for weeks and weeks without any real explanation why. An example would be ragnorak on consoles being delayed for over a month for no real reason (that we know of as players). And now, with the DLC that they had already had a release window for and suddenly they are delaying it "for some weeks" with no real explanation other than "its not ready". First off, if its not ready, dont set a release window. Do that after its ready, that way you have all your chickens lined up for release. 

And another something i'm not sure i'm alone on, the price raise, why did they feel the need to raise the price for no actual reason? They didnt add anything of significance to the game other than saying "its officially released now, so its worth more".

And yes, i'm gonna bring up an old topic, the flyer nerf. No one wanted this, no one asked for this, yet they did it. And when we said we didnt like it at all, they said they toned down the changes. But the changes they changed were so minimal you could'nt really tell a difference. This is yet another example of the devs attitude towards their players

Theres a list of complaints i could just rant on about this game. But i think y'all get the point.  

 

TL;DR : I love this game, but the devs need to work on their update/release structure big time if they are wanting to sustain their playerbase.

 

 

this thread is a prime example of the devs attitude...

 

[Novarae]

To be quite honest, with regards to the thread I started from the yellow journalism article from MassivelyOP on Ark,  my take away was how ignorance of the game(afterall the author of the article admits to having never used modded content every in the comments later(and that being a big core of what makes ark ark) and that articles or players intentional disinformation bias about the game or the devs directly is an issue that likes to feed itself and as well feed on itself perpetually.

I'm not saying there there isn't a certain level of an epistemic bubble surrounding the team, almost any studio does unfortunately have such to varying degrees, but I didn't find, for example, that Chris' reaction to it and the things going on with the thread to be invalid either.

[invincibleqc]

I still miss my 300% speed Wyvern but I must say this is nicely written!

[Ranger1]

5 minutes ago, KingGalahad said:

What was a reasonable flight initially became over a 15 minute flight Post nerf (you can say we'll build closer, but how we're we to know that such a heavy handed irresponsibly done nerf was coming when we first built our bases?)

That's kind of the point my friend. 

Prior to the nerf distance wasn't a consideration for much of anything, even on very large maps (which most folks prefer) where logically increased travel time SHOULD have been an important factor all along.  This was a problem.

Distance, terrain, travel time.... all of these factors should be a critical part of most decisions you make in PVE... after all, you against the environment is one of it's primary focuses.  However, near instantaneous and incredibly safe aerial travel rendered all of those things a non-issue.  The nerf did more than a bit to alter that (you would very likely choose your base locations more wisely now).  Again, when you remove those factors completely with super speedy aerial mounts that never need to worry about landing you undermine a large portion of the logistical challenges you should be facing in PVE.

Perhaps not for you, but especially on gorgeous maps like Ragnarok a lot of folks now weigh the (safe but somewhat tedious) travel time by air against the more dangerous but vastly more entertaining option of traveling with a land or sea mount.  Obviously you can still shave off a lot of time traveling by air, but it's fairly boring... and there might be some justification to the argument that aerial travel is now the first choice of people that seem to have forgotten how to enjoy the game... especially in a PVE setting.

Obviously to each his own, but to be honest your point that previous decisions would not have been made the way they were if they had been made post nerf reinforces just how effective the nerf was in accomplishing it's goal in PVE.  It made players start to seriously consider aspects that should have always been vitally important considerations in a player vs environment game mode.

[RaiderofthelostARK]

Jesus Christ the flyer nerf was due to base rendering and players constantly disconnecting while flying too fast. Tired of this nonsense about how they implemented it due to players not getting the full map experience.

[Ranger1]

3 minutes ago, RaiderofthelostARK said:

Jesus Christ the flyer nerf was due to base rendering and players constantly disconnecting while flying too fast. Tired of this nonsense about how they implemented it due to players not getting the full map experience.

Those were factors to consider yes... but they were far from the only factors.

[RaiderofthelostARK]

They killed all birds in one stone. But one of the birds was very majestic and sadly enough caught in the crossfire. Still dont understand why the quetz got nerfed.

[invincibleqc]

Just now, RaiderofthelostARK said:

They killed all birds in one stone. But one of the birds was very majestic and sadly enough caught in the crossfire. Still dont understand why the quetz got nerfed.

The Quetz is nicely balanced I'd say. They also greatly buffed the weight but hey, I won't blame you for forgetting that since it is always easier to remember the nerfs and cry about them. The only thing I will never agree on is the 20% speed bonus from imprinting; THIS was hard to swallow.

[Dustrider]

15 minutes ago, RaiderofthelostARK said:

They killed all birds in one stone. But one of the birds was very majestic and sadly enough caught in the crossfire. Still dont understand why the quetz got nerfed.

The quetz is good for two things, carrying an anky/doedic or for minigun airsupport during raids. That's really all it should be good for imo. Anytime you have one tame that is good at nearly everything you have a major balance issue. 

[BlueFox91]

*Pokes head out of box*

"No real reason"

"no real explanation"

"no actual reason"

.... Any decisions the Devs do isn't real. Just in our imaaginaaatioon *Hops back in box*

[KingGalahad]

1 hour ago, Ranger1 said:

That's kind of the point my friend. 

Prior to the nerf distance wasn't a consideration for much of anything, even on very large maps (which most folks prefer) where logically increased travel time SHOULD have been an important factor all along.  This was a problem.

Distance, terrain, travel time.... all of these factors should be a critical part of most decisions you make in PVE... after all, you against the environment is one of it's primary focuses.  However, near instantaneous and incredibly safe aerial travel rendered all of those things a non-issue.  The nerf did more than a bit to alter that (you would very likely choose your base locations more wisely now).  Again, when you remove those factors completely with super speedy aerial mounts that never need to worry about landing you undermine a large portion of the logistical challenges you should be facing in PVE.

Perhaps not for you, but especially on gorgeous maps like Ragnarok a lot of folks now weigh the (safe but somewhat tedious) travel time by air against the more dangerous but vastly more entertaining option of traveling with a land or sea mount.  Obviously you can still shave off a lot of time traveling by air, but it's fairly boring... and there might be some justification to the argument that aerial travel is now the first choice of people that seem to have forgotten how to enjoy the game... especially in a PVE setting.

Obviously to each his own, but to be honest your point that previous decisions would not have been made the way they were if they had been made post nerf reinforces just how effective the nerf was in accomplishing it's goal in PVE.  It made players start to seriously consider aspects that should have always been vitally important considerations in a player vs environment game mode.

The nerf did change the game and what decisions you may make. It however didn't add anything to the game and made certain tasks a tedious time sink. Flying a quetz across the map wasn't any more dangerous Post nerf than it was pre nerf. It just doubled the time to do so. 

My primary point however was the arrogance of Kayd in regards to how he thinks of the player base. Stating basically that if you don't like the nerf that there are mods for that. Well until they make that an official mod, console players don't have a choice  we are stuck with their bad decision. On the player dedicated server I hosted, I lost several players due to that particular nerf (although it didn't help that save corruptions happened often as well but that is a whole other topic)

 

[Ranger1]

1 minute ago, KingGalahad said:

Flying a quetz across the map wasn't any more dangerous Post nerf than it was pre nerf. It just doubled the time to do so. 

Well, if you refused to invest sufficient points into stamina it did make the trip more dangerous as you actually had to land occasionally.  Any time you have to land a flyer (especially one that you've needed to invest levels in non-combat related things like stamina and weight), you run the risk of being attacked or dismounted.  You may not lose your Quetzal or your own life every time, but it does tend to spice things up.  Likewise if you chose to use another method post nerf other than your Quetz those methods have their own dangers. 

I do sympathize with console players not currently being able to play with mods, but I also have to say that of all of the mods available that console users could really get some use out of classic flyers wouldn't be at (or even near) the top of the list.  Yes, I realize that is purely subjective... but I think you'd be surprised at how many players (given the choice) would prioritize other mods.

[KingGalahad]

9 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

Well, if you refused to invest sufficient points into stamina it did make the trip more dangerous as you actually had to land occasionally.  Any time you have to land a flyer (especially one that you've needed to invest levels in non-combat related things like stamina and weight), you run the risk of being attacked or dismounted.  You may not lose your Quetzal or your own life every time, but it does tend to spice things up.  Likewise if you chose to use another method post nerf other than your Quetz those methods have their own dangers. 

I do sympathize with console players not currently being able to play with mods, but I also have to say that of all of the mods available that console users could really get some use out of classic flyers wouldn't be at (or even near) the top of the list.  Yes, I realize that is purely subjective... but I think you'd be surprised at how many players (given the choice) would prioritize other mods.

a sufficiently levelled stamina quetz has no problem making the journey.

 

In terms of mods, the one that I was most jealous of was S+ which we hopefully will be getting eventually. I hope they do include most of the features it currently has!

[Jaric]

I'd be happy if they just toned down the lag on Ragnarok.

[SCEDeadeye]

Flyer nerf agree or disagree about this topic is one thing but for W/C not to address it is another thing altogether. This is a top topic since they implemented the Nerf and not address is bad for population growth in the game.

personally myself I don't like the Nerf. the game was a lot more fun post nerf

[yekrucifixion187]

PS4 Player. PVE. never cared about the flyer nerf other than the drastic reduction in the points i had already spent, namely my 3k stamina Ptera being reduced to 600. i chose to ignore speed and weight and attack and HP to invest in stamina because of landing to regain and 3 Ptera's meeting an unfortunate end that way. (terror birds and purlovias). The stamina nerf probably helped my Quetzal trade business on legacy as we were hatching them at 2200 which gave you the choice not to invest any into the stam as longas you didn't want to push them the entire time. 

I never had a problem with speed being taken away because it did help with the lag/rendering/blue screen. I never liked the Wyvern on my old island map because even at its slowest it would be too fast for that rendering unless I was super high and then you could still get a DC or BS and you'd really be in a heap of trouble trying to get it back. I always chose a Quetzal with a platform and a spawn bed and would fly as close to the ceiling as possible with all items stored safely in the Quetzal because if i fell and die, boom respawn and continue on. 

yes it would be preferred if they fixed rendering and lag but  you have to adjust if they don't have the capability or willingness to do so. 

More on topic though as the flyer nerf is just a small part of the OP's overall point. That incapability or unwillingness to address some of these issues that have plagued us from EA to official release is right to be a concern. When you say you fixed something but it isn't (duping), when you say you are working on something and you are targeting the next update but then 4 or 5 updates go by and there is no further information or there is the same response, (kibble rework, S+, dino TLC) and when you start working on the next payday before fixing the current issues thus delaying those other issues if you even plan on fixing them and you do all of this while providing almost no transparency, you can't really be surprised that a dedicated fan base such as Ark players (a game that requires hours of devotion to progress on official settings) is annoyed, feels betrayed, and is angry. That's silly to think they are just going to sit there and take it and not voice their opinions. 

You sold how many copies at $20-30 and how many at $60? I mean you are proud of how many you sold, so how do you not invest that money into the areas that caused the most concern during EA? Customer support, PR, and servers. Invest in those areas and show improvement and this fanbase will follow you to the darkest of caves, deepest of oceans, and anywhere else you want to take them. 

Or do what you are doing and watch the hit this new DLC takes and your vision for Ark 2 follow the sharp decline I imagine is coming. 

edit: Decline is my personal speculation and you can point to total current player data and I agree people are still playing fairly often and high (I am one of them) but being as I am one of them I know I will not buy a season pass or any DLC or Ark 2. I have grown accustomed to the bugs at this point and the concept and play style of the game was never the issue. It is an incredibly fun game in its finest hours but I also know i'm not the only one that feels investing further is unwise and fool hearty and while we'll endure the current "punishment" we're not going to pay for more of it. 

[KimoBitz]

I'm having the stupid bug on the server browser, everytime I try to join any server I get this "No sessions found". I litreally can't play the game until one of my friends opens up the server so I can join through them...

[Guest fr0st]

PC Unofficial here. While I don't experience a lot of the issues shared by console players or those playing official, I do regularly experience a fair amount of bugs, as do the people in my community and it is frustrating, however I wouldn't say this game is unplayable as it is now, at least for us. The game is great in my view. I think what bothers me the most is the vibe I get from the devs. I think they do read far more threads here and on Reddit than most would believe, but their reluctance to reply and the blatantly dodgy way they avoid game breaking issues or other big issues is what throws me off. I believe others recognize this as well and that it affects the morale. Not to mention it makes people in general a whole lot less understanding of what the devs are going through.

That dialogue is forced or given when it best suits them, but a better dialogue could help with subs lost and anger in general. I believe that part of why this community is as bad as it is falls back on how responsive and transparent the devs are. Many arguments are caused by people simply guessing things and going to war over the details. There are quite a few community managers, but they are extremely quiet. If finishing the DLC requires all hands on deck, then perhaps they need to increase the size of their team. All I know is I don't get the best vibe from the community or the ones developing this game.

[IamTANK]

4 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

Well, if you refused to invest sufficient points into stamina it did make the trip more dangerous as you actually had to land occasionally.  Any time you have to land a flyer (especially one that you've needed to invest levels in non-combat related things like stamina and weight), you run the risk of being attacked or dismounted.  You may not lose your Quetzal or your own life every time, but it does tend to spice things up.  Likewise if you chose to use another method post nerf other than your Quetz those methods have their own dangers. 

I do sympathize with console players not currently being able to play with mods, but I also have to say that of all of the mods available that console users could really get some use out of classic flyers wouldn't be at (or even near) the top of the list.  Yes, I realize that is purely subjective... but I think you'd be surprised at how many players (given the choice) would prioritize other mods.

not that i ont understand and accept the flyer nerf , but it didnt make my quetzal use more dangerous . it just made my use of a quetz rare. the only time i use a quetz is when there no other choice. and more often then not there is. for me the quetz has become a dino i avoid using if possible.

[Ronson12]

Ruined*

[Sh4rk]

23 hours ago, Pic1 said:

"Petra was one of the most powerful creature in the game"... did you really just say that or are you arguing for the sake of argument? Why would anyone bother barrel rolling a hundred times for primes when they can easily tame a rex? And no, pteras' weight still sucked back then so argents and other birds were as useful as they are now. And let me get this straight. You're saying flying from one end of the map to the other in one go is somehow, in some way, overpowered compared to the 45 halts that we have to make now? What you mean is making us spend 20 minutes longer in air has made the pteras balanced. Okay... And no, I have never seen anybody explore the map on an iguanadon when they have an option to fly. Some might even say one enjoys the landscape more when one is flying in the sky looking down.

Yes I did say that. Because it was true then, and is still fairly true today. You are completely exaggerating about the additional travel time as well. 45 stops? More like 2 or 3. 20 minutes longer spent in the air? Also, more like 2 or 3. Never seen anyone riding around on an iguanodon? Exactly.... *puts on sunglasses*

[Extraterrestrial]

You have to realize something as far as the price hike goes.

They pretty much HAVE to add an extra $20 onto the sales price. Some of you may know this, but many don't, so I'll educate you.
The reason Game Developers are pushing for a Digital Only market for the game industry is because when you through retail to
sell your games, you have to share your profits with the retailers. It's bad enough that they have to add extra cash on to the game
to make it a physical thing (i.e disk, casing, manuals, etc), but that shelf space isn't free, you have to pay for that too. Most games
will average around 34 to 40 dollars in their rawest form, but when you take it to retail. another $20 gets added on to accomidate
retailers.

That doesn't include the skeezy poop that companies like Gamestop utilize in order to take more than their fair share of profits from
the developers, which can REALLY rack up, and adds another whole reason as to why game devs what a digital only platform to
push their games.

That aside, even if it has been so long since the flier nerf debacle has been done with, i will STILL fight you over this matter. I might
have gotten used to it, but I still hate it. The problems that they were trying to "address" were grossly exaggerated in scope, and the
fix they used was heavy handed and unnecessary. just as as easily as they made it so fliers can't pick up fliers on PVE, they could
have done that on PVP. They could have made it so that C4 can't be placed on animals, just like they did with dimorphs. There's 
easily 1,001 ways they could have handled the nerf that would not have resulted in so many people being down right WRONGED
by the developers.

But, I digress... What's done is done. It's been what, almost a year now? They haven't reverted it. They're never going to, and from
the looks of it, they're never going to bother touching the subject again. Despite my disagreement in the choices that the dev's
have made, both past and present, I've never ONCE in my time being here, see a Developer being anything but respectful to us.
And trust me, there's been PLENTY of times where we deserved nothing but contempt and anger. Some of us here are raptoring
assholes, myself included, but the developers have NEVER as I've seen sunk so low. 

The moderators? Maybe a few of them are brown nosers, but other than that, I've never really seen any of them act out, except
maybe abusing their privileges in-game. Other than that, they're human, they see the same poop day in, day out in this place. It's
expected if some of them get grumpy from time to time.

The game's got flaws. No game made today has no flaws. It's a sad reality of the industry.

[Thorium]

On 15.11.2017 at 8:24 PM, Bugs5567 said:

And yes, i'm gonna bring up an old topic, the flyer nerf. No one wanted this, no one asked for this, yet they did it. And when we said we didnt like it at all, they said they toned down the changes.

Don't you love it if one thinks his opionion is the one that everyone else has. I can understand you don't like the flyer nerf. But i can assure you that players have asked for it and that there is a considerable amount of players enjoing the nerf. Me beeing one of them.

I run a cluster and i had players leave after the nerf to play on servers with classic flyers. However, when i announced a server wipe and season two of our cluster. The very same people requested me to not put classic flyers on the cluster and a large portion of them actualy came back for season two.

It certainly was a hard pill to swallow for a lot of players. But there are many players who learned that it does in fact impact playing experience in a positive way.

[ForzaProiettile]

7 minutes ago, Thorium said:

Don't you love it if one thinks his opionion is the one that everyone else has. I can understand you don't like the flyer nerf. But i can assure you that players have asked for it and that there is a considerable amount of players enjoing the nerf. Me beeing one of them.

I run a cluster and i had players leave after the nerf to play on servers with classic flyers. However, when i announced a server wipe and season two of our cluster. The very same people requested me to not put classic flyers on the cluster and a large portion of them actualy came back for season two.

It certainly was a hard pill to swallow for a lot of players. But there are many players who learned that it does in fact impact playing experience in a positive way.

I remember a lot of those complaining about the flyer nerf posted in a quasi blackmail thread, threatening the devs that they would never play ARK again unless they got back their Mach 10 Pteradons and infinite weight quetzals. Some of those players you can still find on this forum today, quietly enjoying the game they threatened to boycott for life. Then there are those that just can't let go, they are probably still playing on some dead legacy server with a server pop of 3 at peak time.